How do I be an adult?
February 3, 2008 8:05 PM Subscribe
How do I calm down and stop being constantly annoyed at an obnoxious, but ultimately harmless roommate? I treat him poorly, and though he's no bag of sunshine he's still a human being.
I (and the rest of my roommates) find one of my roommates, "Joe", tremendously annoying. We got along well before we lived together, but that was when I didn't realize that his charming, friendly personality hid an arrogant prick. He's a braggart, he exaggerates his accomplishments (often blatantly lying about them), demands to be the center of attention of every conversation, is an incorrigible know-it-all, a hypocrite, and has issues with passive-aggressiveness. Basically, he's enough of an jerk that I really don't like hanging out with him or having conversations with him, for fear it will turn into another Joe Show.
He's really not a terrible roommate or a terrible guy, though. He picks up his stuff, he cleans, he follows house rules, and when we asked him to stop holding crazy parties where he filled the house with people nobody knew, he did. He doesn't get drunk and punch things, he's helpful, and he can be pretty hilarious (like I said, he's charming and friendly). And I feel for him, because he's used to be the center of attention and people worshiping him, and we won't do it because we think he's full of shit. I also think various events in his life may mean his self-esteem is not at the greatest point right now, and that contributes to his bragging, but he's got the arrogant face on so often it's really hard to tell if that's the case.
But I let all the bad qualities get to me and treat him poorly as a result. I snap at him over petty stuff, I'm not sympathetic enough towards his problems, and I'm not as friendly as I am towards my other roommates. And worst of all, whenever we have house activities--going out to dinner, bars, whatever--we exclude him. Not actively saying he can't come, but we don't invite him or even let him know it's happening until after the fact. I feel fucking terrible about this, because it's such a high-school move and he's gotta know it's going on, but honestly none of us really want spend time with him, and when I do invite him he goes into all out Attention Whore mode and annoys the crap out of everyone. My other roommates and my friends tell me not to worry about my behavior. But I want to be a better person than this.
So, what are your techniques for calming yourself down so you can treat someone you don't particularly like or respect politely and compassionately? In the past limiting interaction time has saved me, so there was plenty of time in between to calm down and remember their humanity. But since I live with the guy and bad juju builds up quick. There's only a couple months left on the lease--not enough time to be worth moving out, but enough that it is worth me learning to not be such a bitch towards him.
I (and the rest of my roommates) find one of my roommates, "Joe", tremendously annoying. We got along well before we lived together, but that was when I didn't realize that his charming, friendly personality hid an arrogant prick. He's a braggart, he exaggerates his accomplishments (often blatantly lying about them), demands to be the center of attention of every conversation, is an incorrigible know-it-all, a hypocrite, and has issues with passive-aggressiveness. Basically, he's enough of an jerk that I really don't like hanging out with him or having conversations with him, for fear it will turn into another Joe Show.
He's really not a terrible roommate or a terrible guy, though. He picks up his stuff, he cleans, he follows house rules, and when we asked him to stop holding crazy parties where he filled the house with people nobody knew, he did. He doesn't get drunk and punch things, he's helpful, and he can be pretty hilarious (like I said, he's charming and friendly). And I feel for him, because he's used to be the center of attention and people worshiping him, and we won't do it because we think he's full of shit. I also think various events in his life may mean his self-esteem is not at the greatest point right now, and that contributes to his bragging, but he's got the arrogant face on so often it's really hard to tell if that's the case.
But I let all the bad qualities get to me and treat him poorly as a result. I snap at him over petty stuff, I'm not sympathetic enough towards his problems, and I'm not as friendly as I am towards my other roommates. And worst of all, whenever we have house activities--going out to dinner, bars, whatever--we exclude him. Not actively saying he can't come, but we don't invite him or even let him know it's happening until after the fact. I feel fucking terrible about this, because it's such a high-school move and he's gotta know it's going on, but honestly none of us really want spend time with him, and when I do invite him he goes into all out Attention Whore mode and annoys the crap out of everyone. My other roommates and my friends tell me not to worry about my behavior. But I want to be a better person than this.
So, what are your techniques for calming yourself down so you can treat someone you don't particularly like or respect politely and compassionately? In the past limiting interaction time has saved me, so there was plenty of time in between to calm down and remember their humanity. But since I live with the guy and bad juju builds up quick. There's only a couple months left on the lease--not enough time to be worth moving out, but enough that it is worth me learning to not be such a bitch towards him.
I would try to get the relationship back to where you were before: when you liked him and he wasn't your roommate.
As far as dealing with him, I think the key phrase here is:
his self-esteem is not at the greatest point right now
because it sounds to me like he's just insecure and acting out on that. This doesn't mean you have to tolerate it, though, so just find a roommate who has his good qualities without the bad. I think the fact that you were friends before you became roommates amplifies any emotional attachment you have to the person, making it more difficult to deal with their short-comings (maybe because you see it as a reflection on you -- this has been the case with me).
It's good that you're recognizing the need to not take your frustration out on him. In the mean time, to address your question, I think the best you can hope for is tolerance. You don't necessarily have to be nice to him, and can deal with him without being rude by taking a more neutral stance. If his bragging starts to annoy you, try to sever any emotional connection (e.g. embarrassment that one of your friends can be so annoying) and treat him as you'd treat someone who wasn't your friend and doing the same (by ignoring them). When he starts getting annoying, another thing to do is separate yourself from the situation. Go somewhere where he can't hear you or get some headphones and listen to music.
I don't have any advice for how to handle social events, though. It's a tricky situation. Good luck, and keep yourself sane. Venting is good, too, either to a journal or a patient friend.
posted by spiderskull at 8:23 PM on February 3, 2008
As far as dealing with him, I think the key phrase here is:
his self-esteem is not at the greatest point right now
because it sounds to me like he's just insecure and acting out on that. This doesn't mean you have to tolerate it, though, so just find a roommate who has his good qualities without the bad. I think the fact that you were friends before you became roommates amplifies any emotional attachment you have to the person, making it more difficult to deal with their short-comings (maybe because you see it as a reflection on you -- this has been the case with me).
It's good that you're recognizing the need to not take your frustration out on him. In the mean time, to address your question, I think the best you can hope for is tolerance. You don't necessarily have to be nice to him, and can deal with him without being rude by taking a more neutral stance. If his bragging starts to annoy you, try to sever any emotional connection (e.g. embarrassment that one of your friends can be so annoying) and treat him as you'd treat someone who wasn't your friend and doing the same (by ignoring them). When he starts getting annoying, another thing to do is separate yourself from the situation. Go somewhere where he can't hear you or get some headphones and listen to music.
I don't have any advice for how to handle social events, though. It's a tricky situation. Good luck, and keep yourself sane. Venting is good, too, either to a journal or a patient friend.
posted by spiderskull at 8:23 PM on February 3, 2008
You don't have to treat a roommate like a friend to treat him well or fairly. Does he pay his rent? Does he clean up after himself? Yes? Then grit your teeth and be polite (i.e., don't snap at him), but don't invite him out to social events. You owe him civility and respect, you don't owe him access to your social life. If you find yourself getting irritated with him, just think to yourself 'he is not my friend; I do not have to socialize with him' and leave the room.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:28 PM on February 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:28 PM on February 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
I wish it weren't so, but you're describing a lot of people I've met. You'll continue to meet them unfortunately, and they never get any less irritating, so it's good that you're trying to deal with it now. Braggarts are a dime a dozen in affluent societies.
The best solution I've found is to just ignore his bullshit and talk to him when he's being tolerable. Show him that he's fun to talk to when he's being human and not when he's trying to impress everyone. Change the subject or just leave the room if you have to. Don't waste time getting irritated because it won't change anything. Ignoring the irritating behavior has a chance of changing it.
I try not to feel guilty for excluding people like that either, they have to learn sometime that their behavior is obnoxious.
posted by fan_of_all_things_small at 8:30 PM on February 3, 2008
The best solution I've found is to just ignore his bullshit and talk to him when he's being tolerable. Show him that he's fun to talk to when he's being human and not when he's trying to impress everyone. Change the subject or just leave the room if you have to. Don't waste time getting irritated because it won't change anything. Ignoring the irritating behavior has a chance of changing it.
I try not to feel guilty for excluding people like that either, they have to learn sometime that their behavior is obnoxious.
posted by fan_of_all_things_small at 8:30 PM on February 3, 2008
You are very cool for being concerned about this. And I agree with Meg Murray.
posted by PatoPata at 8:53 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by PatoPata at 8:53 PM on February 3, 2008
Braggarts are a dime a dozen in affluent societies.
You mean they're less common in poverty-stricken countries? The third world is sounding better and better.
posted by jayder at 8:54 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
You mean they're less common in poverty-stricken countries? The third world is sounding better and better.
posted by jayder at 8:54 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I feel fucking terrible about this
Well either he's a friend or he's not. Make up your mind and take action.
posted by mattoxic at 9:00 PM on February 3, 2008
Well either he's a friend or he's not. Make up your mind and take action.
posted by mattoxic at 9:00 PM on February 3, 2008
You can't choose how Joe behaves, but you can choose how his behavior affects you. Yes, he's an arrogant prick that nobody would want to be around, but it's your problem that you resent him for it. Joe doesn't have any power over you unless you give it to him. You're the one who allows yourself to feel annoyed/embarassed at his antics and guilty about excluding him.
Try this: The next time Joe is "being Joe", think to yourself "oh, there goes Joe again. Man, he sure is full of himself, isn't he!", but do it with a huge smile on your face, like Joe's a comic actor on a scene from a sitcom you're watching on TV (if you don't want Joe or others present to misinterpret your smile as approval of his behavior, just smile at him in your mind). Do this enough times and you'll break your association between Joe's behavior and your own undesired feelings.
As an alternate (or supplementary) course of action, I know this is kinda obvious, but talk to him and explain how you interpret his behavior and how it affects his relationship with you and your roommates. Yeah, he's gotta be at least a little dense if he doesn't realize on his own how his behavior is offensive, but talking to him worked for the house parties issue, so why not give this a shot? Just be honest and compassionate. He may have an "oh my god" moment, or he may get offended and deny everything, but either way he'll be thinking about it!
posted by brain at 9:11 PM on February 3, 2008
Try this: The next time Joe is "being Joe", think to yourself "oh, there goes Joe again. Man, he sure is full of himself, isn't he!", but do it with a huge smile on your face, like Joe's a comic actor on a scene from a sitcom you're watching on TV (if you don't want Joe or others present to misinterpret your smile as approval of his behavior, just smile at him in your mind). Do this enough times and you'll break your association between Joe's behavior and your own undesired feelings.
As an alternate (or supplementary) course of action, I know this is kinda obvious, but talk to him and explain how you interpret his behavior and how it affects his relationship with you and your roommates. Yeah, he's gotta be at least a little dense if he doesn't realize on his own how his behavior is offensive, but talking to him worked for the house parties issue, so why not give this a shot? Just be honest and compassionate. He may have an "oh my god" moment, or he may get offended and deny everything, but either way he'll be thinking about it!
posted by brain at 9:11 PM on February 3, 2008
If you've been treating him badly you should apologize to him. Do it in private. Say "Hey, I've been kind of a dick lately. Sorry about that." It's easy, you can do it right now without much effort, and you'll both feel better.
posted by hjo3 at 9:40 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by hjo3 at 9:40 PM on February 3, 2008
Treat him fairly, and call him on his shit when it bugs you. Joe may not be aware how his behaviour affects others; and if he is aware but doesn't care or relishes its effect, needs to feel a penalty for it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:50 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:50 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I know a guy like this, and the best way I've found to interact with him is one on one. With the guy I know, this is the only time I can tolerate him. One on one, it seems like his urge to be all mememe is lessened and he's more genuine. In situations with more people, he can be so intolerable I want to strangle him. When I have a conversation just with him, he seems to feel less of a need to show off and act like a jackass. This may not work with your dude, as he sounds like more of an advanced case than my friend, who can actually make fun of his own tendencies and takes any teasing directed toward him fairly well. Maybe you can continue to not hang out with your roommate in group situations and spend some time with him one on one to make up for excluding him and to lessen your guilt?
posted by MadamM at 10:01 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by MadamM at 10:01 PM on February 3, 2008
Jaydar, you're right. I meant affluent western societies. Sorry 'bout that.
posted by fan_of_all_things_small at 10:15 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by fan_of_all_things_small at 10:15 PM on February 3, 2008
ask a favour of him.
recently i was similarly frustrated by a roommate. the guy in my case has a different disposition than yours- but the crux is that he doesn't pick up on social cues, so he unknowingly makes a pest of himself (talks too much, messy, loud). the rest of us were pulling out our hair.
i have a personal practice of not taking favours from people i dislike- it seems exploitative and lacking in integrity- but i was dying for a particular kind of computer help that this roommate does professionally, so i offered to pay him to do it for me. it required that we spend a lot of time together, which made me cringe. but suddenly, as we worked, all his good qualities came beaming through- he's reeeeally nice, and smart, and generally just cares and tries hard. he was SO nice to work with. and he did the job for FREE, gosh, what a nice guy. i felt like such an ass for having had mean thoughts about him, and i've since found it just about impossible to be annoyed at him, and i'm able to be more direct and fair when asking him to be more careful about roommate stuff.
so i suggest you ask your roommate for a favour- ideally a timeconsuming one. get him to help you paint your room or drive somewhere far away or move something heavy or pick you up at the airport or something. once you see him generously devoting time & energy to you, you'll probably soften up.
posted by twistofrhyme at 10:24 PM on February 3, 2008 [5 favorites]
recently i was similarly frustrated by a roommate. the guy in my case has a different disposition than yours- but the crux is that he doesn't pick up on social cues, so he unknowingly makes a pest of himself (talks too much, messy, loud). the rest of us were pulling out our hair.
i have a personal practice of not taking favours from people i dislike- it seems exploitative and lacking in integrity- but i was dying for a particular kind of computer help that this roommate does professionally, so i offered to pay him to do it for me. it required that we spend a lot of time together, which made me cringe. but suddenly, as we worked, all his good qualities came beaming through- he's reeeeally nice, and smart, and generally just cares and tries hard. he was SO nice to work with. and he did the job for FREE, gosh, what a nice guy. i felt like such an ass for having had mean thoughts about him, and i've since found it just about impossible to be annoyed at him, and i'm able to be more direct and fair when asking him to be more careful about roommate stuff.
so i suggest you ask your roommate for a favour- ideally a timeconsuming one. get him to help you paint your room or drive somewhere far away or move something heavy or pick you up at the airport or something. once you see him generously devoting time & energy to you, you'll probably soften up.
posted by twistofrhyme at 10:24 PM on February 3, 2008 [5 favorites]
Whoah...did I post this in my sleep? Describes my situation exactly except for the part about the soon-to-end lease (I'm stuck for a while).
What I've learned over time is that certain people just bug you the hell out of you, and you can't change that. You can try to be high-minded and all but it only works to a degree and for some of the time. If you are forced to constantly rub shoulders with irksome people, you will inevitably react in ways that you are ashamed of.
There is only one real solution: minimizing/eliminating contact with that person. Do whatever you can to achieve this.
posted by randomstriker at 10:41 PM on February 3, 2008
What I've learned over time is that certain people just bug you the hell out of you, and you can't change that. You can try to be high-minded and all but it only works to a degree and for some of the time. If you are forced to constantly rub shoulders with irksome people, you will inevitably react in ways that you are ashamed of.
There is only one real solution: minimizing/eliminating contact with that person. Do whatever you can to achieve this.
posted by randomstriker at 10:41 PM on February 3, 2008
Look at it as a performance. He's playing annoying braggart guy. Imagine you're trying to learn to be an annoying braggart. Study his moves. Aha, see what he did there? Genius.
See, the beauty of this attitude is that a) it helps you not choke him and b) it shows. You'll have that slight, almost not noticeable, smirk when he does his thing. He'll get it.
Not only that, but acting can be fun. Try being annoying braggart guy for a night. (tell your friends first, so they can laugh instead of hit you.)
posted by ctmf at 11:17 PM on February 3, 2008
See, the beauty of this attitude is that a) it helps you not choke him and b) it shows. You'll have that slight, almost not noticeable, smirk when he does his thing. He'll get it.
Not only that, but acting can be fun. Try being annoying braggart guy for a night. (tell your friends first, so they can laugh instead of hit you.)
posted by ctmf at 11:17 PM on February 3, 2008
This seems like an ugly situation. Yeah, Joe is a prick sometimes, but he's certainly not a monster who deserves to be ostracized from all human society. You wouldn't have asked him to live with you if he were. Big group houses suck, because there's always a scapegoat. Joe is the housemate who has the most easily scapegoatable behavior, so he's getting the shaft.
Imagine you and Joe alone in a condo in rural Montana, where he was the only friend you had in a town of people who didn't like you very much. Would you still dislike him enough to give him the slip? Are you and your other housemates flawless, or are you guys just lucky that Joe is around, so that no one else falls into the role of scapegoat? If Joe leaves, and you get another roommate, who will resume his role?
Advise him to move out next semester, and move out yourself. There's a whole lot of petty bullshit going on in your house, and it's worth working as a waiter a few nights a week so you can afford to get a smaller space with fewer roommates and less drama.
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 12:40 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Imagine you and Joe alone in a condo in rural Montana, where he was the only friend you had in a town of people who didn't like you very much. Would you still dislike him enough to give him the slip? Are you and your other housemates flawless, or are you guys just lucky that Joe is around, so that no one else falls into the role of scapegoat? If Joe leaves, and you get another roommate, who will resume his role?
Advise him to move out next semester, and move out yourself. There's a whole lot of petty bullshit going on in your house, and it's worth working as a waiter a few nights a week so you can afford to get a smaller space with fewer roommates and less drama.
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 12:40 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sounds like a feedback loop - the more he is excluded, and his need for respect denied by those around him, the more he has to amp up his me-me-me act when there are people around, in order to break-even, ego-wise. The more he does that, the more you guys try to exclude him and the less you respect him.
If this rings true, depending on your relationship, you might be able to come out and tell him. You probably can't, but it's your judgement call. Telling him you've noticed some people are losing interest in having him around, and telling him bluntly why that is happening - (he hijacks their social outings and their enjoyment is less for that), and what he can do about it, and there if he's interested in trying to raise people's opinions of himself by not self-aggrandizing, there is this thing happening tonight that he could use as a practise run at focusing his efforts on blending in, or making others look awesome, rather than himself.
NB: You follow this advice at your own risk. :-)
posted by -harlequin- at 1:22 AM on February 4, 2008
If this rings true, depending on your relationship, you might be able to come out and tell him. You probably can't, but it's your judgement call. Telling him you've noticed some people are losing interest in having him around, and telling him bluntly why that is happening - (he hijacks their social outings and their enjoyment is less for that), and what he can do about it, and there if he's interested in trying to raise people's opinions of himself by not self-aggrandizing, there is this thing happening tonight that he could use as a practise run at focusing his efforts on blending in, or making others look awesome, rather than himself.
NB: You follow this advice at your own risk. :-)
posted by -harlequin- at 1:22 AM on February 4, 2008
He was your friend before he was your housemate, right? In that case, it's a friend who is in a bit of a rough patch and is becoming overbearing. So, instead of shunning him (and exacerbating things), perhaps you could take him aside and say "Look buddy, I'm gonna be blunt with you- lately it seems whenever you're out with us you're a bit (insert diplomatic but truthful criticism), and it's getting tiresome."
Hopefully that will lead to a conversation (and not just denial) that will let you sort it out. The fact that he's your roommate makes it trickier, but it's basically a friend in a rough spot who needs a hand. You don't really have the option of shunning him, since you live with him. Either move out (extreme), or talk to him about it.
posted by twirlypen at 2:12 AM on February 4, 2008
Hopefully that will lead to a conversation (and not just denial) that will let you sort it out. The fact that he's your roommate makes it trickier, but it's basically a friend in a rough spot who needs a hand. You don't really have the option of shunning him, since you live with him. Either move out (extreme), or talk to him about it.
posted by twirlypen at 2:12 AM on February 4, 2008
Try a little honesty. Instead of letting him monopolize the conversation, tell him you're getting bored with hearing him talk about himself, then change the subject.
It seems like lot of your resentment stems from your (and your friends') inability to give this guy candid, direct feedback on his behavior, or to set any boundaries on his rudeness.
In other words, if you acted a little less passive toward him, maybe you wouldn't feel so aggressive.
Good for you for looking at your part in all this, and for wanting to be a better person. There's lots of good advice upthread about viewing this guy with compassion, as a human being just like you or me.
But don't just wallow in guilt over not being nicer to him. To deal with this kind of scenario like an adult, you need to recognize that your trying to be nice at all costs is actually part of the problem.
posted by ottereroticist at 2:24 AM on February 4, 2008
It seems like lot of your resentment stems from your (and your friends') inability to give this guy candid, direct feedback on his behavior, or to set any boundaries on his rudeness.
In other words, if you acted a little less passive toward him, maybe you wouldn't feel so aggressive.
Good for you for looking at your part in all this, and for wanting to be a better person. There's lots of good advice upthread about viewing this guy with compassion, as a human being just like you or me.
But don't just wallow in guilt over not being nicer to him. To deal with this kind of scenario like an adult, you need to recognize that your trying to be nice at all costs is actually part of the problem.
posted by ottereroticist at 2:24 AM on February 4, 2008
I am in a very similar situation to you right now. In a 7-person household, one is a genuinely nice, friendly guy... Except he annoys the living hell out of me.
It's different to you in that this "Joe" is just totally boring. He gets home every day from class and tells everyone, in detail, about everything that happened to him that day. Without us even ASKING. He talks all the way through movies when we all sit down to watch one. If he's seen the movie, he makes comments about the ending, even though other people in the room haven't seen it. (This sounds like a petty thing to get bothered about, but trust me, it's very annoying.)
If you ask how he's doing, he'll tell you, in detail, and talk to you for half an hour about an uninteresting conversation he had with a friend that you don't even KNOW, or what he had to drink last night. In detail.
He also has some obsessive issue where he can't just relax and have the TV on in the background; he needs to put loud music on in the shared area because it makes it feel more like there's something exciting going on. And he likes something exciting to be going on. All. The. Time.
It's kind of driving me nuts so I, too, have started snapping at him. I think the solution, really, is to stay separated from them. If they're in the shared areas and you don't need to be, retreat to your room. Be pleasant but don't go out of your way to talk to him. (I, for instance, have stopped asking "How are you doing?" Because I don't have four hours to spare to listen to his answer.) If you feel yourself getting worked up, just bite your lip and change the subject.
Good to know that other people out there get crazy at their housemates!
posted by angryjellybean at 4:02 AM on February 4, 2008
It's different to you in that this "Joe" is just totally boring. He gets home every day from class and tells everyone, in detail, about everything that happened to him that day. Without us even ASKING. He talks all the way through movies when we all sit down to watch one. If he's seen the movie, he makes comments about the ending, even though other people in the room haven't seen it. (This sounds like a petty thing to get bothered about, but trust me, it's very annoying.)
If you ask how he's doing, he'll tell you, in detail, and talk to you for half an hour about an uninteresting conversation he had with a friend that you don't even KNOW, or what he had to drink last night. In detail.
He also has some obsessive issue where he can't just relax and have the TV on in the background; he needs to put loud music on in the shared area because it makes it feel more like there's something exciting going on. And he likes something exciting to be going on. All. The. Time.
It's kind of driving me nuts so I, too, have started snapping at him. I think the solution, really, is to stay separated from them. If they're in the shared areas and you don't need to be, retreat to your room. Be pleasant but don't go out of your way to talk to him. (I, for instance, have stopped asking "How are you doing?" Because I don't have four hours to spare to listen to his answer.) If you feel yourself getting worked up, just bite your lip and change the subject.
Good to know that other people out there get crazy at their housemates!
posted by angryjellybean at 4:02 AM on February 4, 2008
twistofrhyme's suggestion about getting him to do something for you is a really good one. I'm not sure it necessarily needs to be one big job, but if you can find ways for him to give to you, it'll be easier for you to give to him. Just as importantly, he'll get a boost to his self-esteem which might help him to be a bit more relaxed.
Also, I think the best response to his attention seeking behavior is a little gentle teasing when he starts getting too much. You're clearly a sensitive guy, I'm sure you can do this in an affectionate, non-alienating way, so that the message comes over as "You're a dork, but we're fond of you". Even if it doesn't make a whole lot of difference to his behavior, at least you're not going to have so much tension from holding your feelings back.
Lastly, you could be kinder to yourself as well, probably part of the reason you're being impatient with him is that you're associating him with a lot of guilt. You're a good guy for caring about your roommate, but you don't have to be perfect.
posted by teleskiving at 4:42 AM on February 4, 2008
Also, I think the best response to his attention seeking behavior is a little gentle teasing when he starts getting too much. You're clearly a sensitive guy, I'm sure you can do this in an affectionate, non-alienating way, so that the message comes over as "You're a dork, but we're fond of you". Even if it doesn't make a whole lot of difference to his behavior, at least you're not going to have so much tension from holding your feelings back.
Lastly, you could be kinder to yourself as well, probably part of the reason you're being impatient with him is that you're associating him with a lot of guilt. You're a good guy for caring about your roommate, but you don't have to be perfect.
posted by teleskiving at 4:42 AM on February 4, 2008
Please don't tease him in order to get him to change or do anything else that is so passive and has to be interpreted by him. Insecure people only become MORE insecure when others aren't being straight with them. Seriously. It might only make things worse. The passive thing can easily turn into passive-aggressive and that makes you kind of a jerk, too.
Either be straight with him, take him out for a beer, give him the feedback about his behavior and how it is affecting you or try to avoid him and keep your social lives as separate as possible.
The feedback can be uncomplicated, specific to events you've noticed, and straightforward. Over beers:
"Look, Joe. I've been meaning to apologize for being short with you lately. And I want to tell you why that's been happening. Last week, when we were all talking and you interrupted Matt to tell us that long story about your car and then your job? I felt that you were trying to dominate the conversation. I can't speak for them, but I noticed that the other guys seemed annoyed and I definitely was annoyed. It's difficult to relax and be around you when you dominate the conversation all of the time.
I wanted to be up front with you about this because I think that you are a pretty decent guy. And I don't want to think that I hate you or anything. Just want to let you know."
posted by jeanmari at 6:06 AM on February 4, 2008
Either be straight with him, take him out for a beer, give him the feedback about his behavior and how it is affecting you or try to avoid him and keep your social lives as separate as possible.
The feedback can be uncomplicated, specific to events you've noticed, and straightforward. Over beers:
"Look, Joe. I've been meaning to apologize for being short with you lately. And I want to tell you why that's been happening. Last week, when we were all talking and you interrupted Matt to tell us that long story about your car and then your job? I felt that you were trying to dominate the conversation. I can't speak for them, but I noticed that the other guys seemed annoyed and I definitely was annoyed. It's difficult to relax and be around you when you dominate the conversation all of the time.
I wanted to be up front with you about this because I think that you are a pretty decent guy. And I don't want to think that I hate you or anything. Just want to let you know."
posted by jeanmari at 6:06 AM on February 4, 2008
I also think various events in his life may mean his self-esteem is not at the greatest point right now
It's possible he might just be a narcissist.
posted by electroboy at 7:13 AM on February 4, 2008
It's possible he might just be a narcissist.
posted by electroboy at 7:13 AM on February 4, 2008
Please don't tease him in order to get him to change or do anything else that is so passive and has to be interpreted by him.
To be clearer, by "teasing", I'm talking about calling out the behavior when it happens in a lighthearted and friendly way, the same as you might do with one of your other friends if they were being a pain in the ass on one particular occasion. I do agree that passive aggressiveness is never the answer.
posted by teleskiving at 7:35 AM on February 4, 2008
To be clearer, by "teasing", I'm talking about calling out the behavior when it happens in a lighthearted and friendly way, the same as you might do with one of your other friends if they were being a pain in the ass on one particular occasion. I do agree that passive aggressiveness is never the answer.
posted by teleskiving at 7:35 AM on February 4, 2008
Follow-up from the OP
Unfortunately, I have tried the gentle teasing thing, followed by straight-up confrontation. Neither worked. He steamrolls over teasing and flat out denied the presence of any problems during our talk. So I am pretty sure he is not going to change or has any interest in changing.posted by jessamyn at 9:02 AM on February 4, 2008
I don't think confrontation is going to work. People tend to clam up and become defensive when people take them out and list their faults, even if it's well intentioned. Honestly, would you like to hear a list like that about yourself? I think the best thing to do is let it roll off and be consistently friendly whenever you're around him, but don't go out of your way to spend time with him.
posted by sweetkid at 10:00 AM on February 4, 2008
posted by sweetkid at 10:00 AM on February 4, 2008
Call him out when he does stuff. Not in an aggressive manner, but ask like you're genuinely interested, "Are you joking or did you really do that?" Don't go overboard and be sarcastic about it, be genuine and be consistent. When he starts being a loudmouth simply say,"We're trying to watch television now, can we have this conversation later?"
People are much like dogs, you need to give them incentive to change their behavior, and you need to apply it consistently. This is probably ingrained him by now, you need to show him this will be beneficial. If he's having a good week, invite him out. You don't have to be obvious or calculating about it, but he has no reason to change his behavior now. You guys already treat him like shit, right? That hasn't worked, and I'm glad you're seeing it that way. Try not to put value judgments on behavior and try to be pragmatic about how they can be changed.
If you try to confront him about it, you're are presenting him with something a rational person wouldn't do. He, being of good mental health will say, "but I am a rational person and this is an irrational thing, ergo I cannot be doing it." Which is the rub, our personalities aren't entirely rational and connected to that part of the mind.
posted by geoff. at 11:19 AM on February 4, 2008
People are much like dogs, you need to give them incentive to change their behavior, and you need to apply it consistently. This is probably ingrained him by now, you need to show him this will be beneficial. If he's having a good week, invite him out. You don't have to be obvious or calculating about it, but he has no reason to change his behavior now. You guys already treat him like shit, right? That hasn't worked, and I'm glad you're seeing it that way. Try not to put value judgments on behavior and try to be pragmatic about how they can be changed.
If you try to confront him about it, you're are presenting him with something a rational person wouldn't do. He, being of good mental health will say, "but I am a rational person and this is an irrational thing, ergo I cannot be doing it." Which is the rub, our personalities aren't entirely rational and connected to that part of the mind.
posted by geoff. at 11:19 AM on February 4, 2008
narcissistic personality disorder
Let's not throw diagnoses around and the baggages it carries:
(1) You're not qualified to make this diagnosis at all. We know nothing of the roommate except he can have a somewhat abrasive personality. Labeling him with a psychiatric disease is akin to "My friend won't pick up after himself" resulting in the diagnosis of chronic lower back pain (look it up, people have a hard time picking things up with it).
(2) It moves the friend into a category as having a disease which frames this is as a hopeless endeavor, because certainly the roommates are not qualified or expected to have the knowledge to cure NPD.
posted by geoff. at 3:28 PM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Let's not throw diagnoses around and the baggages it carries:
(1) You're not qualified to make this diagnosis at all. We know nothing of the roommate except he can have a somewhat abrasive personality. Labeling him with a psychiatric disease is akin to "My friend won't pick up after himself" resulting in the diagnosis of chronic lower back pain (look it up, people have a hard time picking things up with it).
(2) It moves the friend into a category as having a disease which frames this is as a hopeless endeavor, because certainly the roommates are not qualified or expected to have the knowledge to cure NPD.
posted by geoff. at 3:28 PM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sounds like a feedback loop - the more he is excluded, and his need for respect denied by those around him, the more he has to amp up his me-me-me act when there are people around, in order to break-even, ego-wise. The more he does that, the more you guys try to exclude him and the less you respect him.
This is exactly what I thought was happening when I read your question.
That said, people do grow out of each other. Make an effort to spend time with him, perhaps one-on-one, to desensitize yourself to the annoying stuff or let yourself see his good qualities, as was suggested above. Also, he'll feel less of a need to prove himself to you.
It's probably worth looking into this (tongue-in-cheek) article, "What Shamu Taught Me About a Happy Marriage", which contains gems such as:
The central lesson I learned from exotic animal trainers is that I should reward behavior I like and ignore behavior I don't. After all, you don't get a sea lion to balance a ball on the end of its nose by nagging. The same goes for the American husband.
If that doesn't work, when the time rolls around to renew the lease, you'll all have to tell him he needs to find a new place to live.
posted by lhall at 9:20 PM on February 4, 2008
This is exactly what I thought was happening when I read your question.
That said, people do grow out of each other. Make an effort to spend time with him, perhaps one-on-one, to desensitize yourself to the annoying stuff or let yourself see his good qualities, as was suggested above. Also, he'll feel less of a need to prove himself to you.
It's probably worth looking into this (tongue-in-cheek) article, "What Shamu Taught Me About a Happy Marriage", which contains gems such as:
The central lesson I learned from exotic animal trainers is that I should reward behavior I like and ignore behavior I don't. After all, you don't get a sea lion to balance a ball on the end of its nose by nagging. The same goes for the American husband.
If that doesn't work, when the time rolls around to renew the lease, you'll all have to tell him he needs to find a new place to live.
posted by lhall at 9:20 PM on February 4, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by fshgrl at 8:22 PM on February 3, 2008