A worthwhile idea hitting an expensive wall...a philanthropic idea in trouble

January 6, 2008 4:01 PM

I am currently involved in setting up a website, and it is proving to be a Herculean task. However, thanks to an instilled sense of guilt and a desire to feel worthful, for a change, I have decided to give back to those that may not be as lucky, as rich, or as pretty as me, namely New York’s starving (or just struggling) artists. My goal, through this website, is to give them a helping hand for free, but obviously need some sort of funding and business plan to move forwards with. I have no experience with any of this. Please help! My main concerns, not having ever done this before, are worrying about how to get funding/donations, whether I need to turn it into an NPO, and whether I should be worried about business-minded people stealing my idea, commercializing it, and basically shoving me out of the way. The following are a list of problems for the immediate future. I have listed them all here because of AskMetafilter’s one-week policy on posting new threads.

Making the site:
1) I have a half-working site using Joomla. What still needs to be changed on it is above Joomla’s ability to provide, and my ability to write code (which is basically no ability). This means I need a computer person to work it for me, but…

Security issues:
2) ...I am worried that the idea for my site might be stolen. I want to make a site with little or no advertising on it, and where everybody involved is getting some benefit out of it, thus keeping the content coming in, changing it, and keeping it exciting. However, I have a potentially profitable idea, and I’m worried it’ll be stolen, and set up much faster and better than I can. The idea itself is for a sort of free online stage (music, videos, writing, pictures) linked with a magazine written by students, based in New York City. Do I patent the idea? Trademark? Hope that I just do it better than anyone else who likes the idea and tries to steal it? Can I trust computer guys? And if I do need to get a patent, how do I get around the ten thousand dollars it’ll cost to get one? And if I need that kind of money…

Funding:
3) My budget is low, in the “few thousand” region. I have friends I could borrow money off, and could get a loan, but I’m not looking to spend much. However, I would like more money, and as it’s in NYC, and to do with struggling artists, I thought it might be easy to get some sort of funding from a foundation interested in promoting art here. However, I’m not a non-profit organization, I’m a guy with an idea for a website…how do I go about continuing the process?
4) I am a student at the New School, and have friends who teach at NYU, as well as some other good contacts. The site is geared to help struggling artists, street artists, and students. I am sure I can get support from peers in putting content onto the site, but I’m not sure how to get money off the universities themselves. Anyone have college funding experience?
5) I’m fairly sure that MUNY (Music Under New York) would also like this idea, but don’t know how to propose the idea to them either. Anyone know anything about the atmosphere in MUNY offices?
6) Anybody know foundations or people looking to send money to help out art in NYC? There must be lots…

If you have answers to any of these questions, I would love to hear anything you can offer. I have quite a lot of time on my hands, and am going to take a couple of classes next semester in which I can work on this idea for credit. I’m even hoping that my peers will want to help produce content for the site for free, as it’ll get their writing “out there.” I’m energetic, driven, and excited about this whole thing, it’s just so much work. I must already have spent a thousand dollars and around three hundred hours, and have little to show for it so far. I have also done some research on each of the above points (and have a lot of ideas from other posts on this site), but would really appreciate some more help. I cannot afford membership to the Independent Sector (I don’t think, unless I’m misunderstanding their webpage), the Foundations Library seems expensive and confusing, the foundation directory I could afford, but am not totally sure it’s what I want, and I’m finding it difficult to navigate the IRS website. Thank you Metafilter!

posted by omnigut to Media & Arts (9 answers total)

What is it exactly that you are offering the artists not as pretty as you with your website? Your concept is very vague, I'd be hard pressed to see anyone steal such a vague concept. There are a million websites out there already claiming to promote artists, some free, some not. I am already listed on about 6 free artist websites and one paid one, so why would I want to use your website? I think you need to think through the details more, like how you will fund it long term and if you want a cut of any sales generated from the website.
posted by 45moore45 at 4:25 PM on January 6, 2008

Response by poster: Caution aside...

The website gives an open stage for street performers, street artists, students, and subway musicians a stage from which to show their work, in combination with an online magazine that is written by students and struggling authors. Their job is to walk around Manhattan writing about what they find, taking photographs and videos, but especially in walking up to the artists they meet, interviewing them, and inviting them to the site.

Each artist would then be able to come to the site, set up a "profile" that includes perhaps a few photos of their work, audio files of their music, or videos of their performances, with contact information, so that if anyone wanted to buy their stuff or rent them out they could easily be reached. The artists/performers get a wider audience, as do the writers. With a system of rating by members of the site, and/or visitors to it, anyone visiting the site could see the best stuff, or browse the local talent in their area, and perhaps walk by and slip a dollar or two into their hat.

I would eventually like this to be a comprehensive guide to New York's "free" musical performances, on street corners and subways, with benefits to all involved. Google maps gives the option for anybody to basically list their location, so if you were looking, for example, for Motown singers, jazz music, or violinists, you could look at the map, and see what's around.
posted by omnigut at 4:43 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

This sounds like Coroflot, but with a non-profit mission. My question is what is your business angle? Sites that host artist work are a dime a dozen these days, and with CMS systems like Wordpress, it's easier than ever for an artist to find a cost-free home on the internet. I would focus on building a non-profit around building opportunities for artists to find venues and funding and to be a facilitator in that regard. You should still do an open access calender and resource page, but might lessen the website and more try to offer real world education in business planning and budgeting skills for emerging musicians. The first thing funders will ask you for is how you plan to become sustaining on your own once they decide you've had enough of their money. If you can't figure out how to recoup your website construction expenses within nine months of completion, I would nix the project and focus on organizing seminars with speakers who can talk to emerging artists about their struggles clearly.
posted by parmanparman at 5:00 PM on January 6, 2008

May I be blunt? The flaw in this plan is people playing on the street are not looking for it to be a permanent gig a dollar at a time. They are already hustling themselves and it is a fairly transient existence in terms of location, hours, etc. Isn't it technically illegal to play in the subways and sidewalks of NYC? If it is, I doubt the artists who are doing it want the legal hassle and the documentation on their little cash business for the IRS to see on your website. Will the visitors to your website be disappointed when the street musician discovers a more lucrative location and disappears?

I will assume your desire to help is genuine and would encourage you to promote artists by finding them more legitimate venues to play to build their audiences. As you are thinking of approaching your university for funding, why don't you approach them about a space donation instead and promote the hell out of some event featuring 15-20 of the best street talent you can find? Charge at the door, give the money to the artists, invite the media and everyone else you can dig up. Do this as often as you can get the space to do it. You could still use your website to promote the event and the artists playing at the event. I can see such an event being very marketable for someone good at promotions and writing press releases.
posted by 45moore45 at 5:02 PM on January 6, 2008

Response by poster: Thank you parmanparman, after looking at it, I do believe it's quite like Coroflot. My "business angle" however, is that most street artists are fairly territorial (in my experience they find a good spot and try to hold on to it), and yet they have no way of advertising their location, and little hope of being hired, unless they are chanced upon. I used to live with an amazing violinist, who has played in the same two or three stations for over fourteen years. It is artists like him who would be best helped by this; no or little access to the internet, incredible skill, reliable, owns a cell-phone. With "roving reporters" out on the streets trying to write about NYC and meet people, more artists who wouldn't know what to do with CMS could get on the www.

As far as setting up venues for these artists, I would love to do live performances (and spoke to a couple of people who said they had spaces they'd not mind using in this regard) of those dancers/musicians/singers/poets who are highest rated on the website.

Also, many thanks to 45moore45, and I think you're mostly right about the illegality. However, with no money passing through the site itself, and as both the New York Police and the MTA have been turning a blind eye for years (and are, in some cases, sanctioning their art) I'm pretty sure they don't feel worried about getting caught. However, I'm not sure about my liability in their illegal activities...I'll have to look into that.
posted by omnigut at 5:29 PM on January 6, 2008

Response by poster: Anyone else? I'd really appreciate the advice...
posted by omnigut at 8:22 PM on January 6, 2008

Best answer: You know, thinking about it, why don't you see if you can ally the website with an existing print magazine/weekly/chapbook. When I lived in New York, I was one of many who read THE L MAGAZINE. They have an OK circulation (105,000) and have a good street outreach and do also sponsor events, though they are very driven by sales. I think if you pitched them on a "Busker to Know" feature for their website and then drove the series into their print line-up, you could build traffic for your page, which could be a compendium for these pieces and also list events featuring these very artists and others. That way, you'll build a rep as a writer and marketer, which is what we all want to be anyway. You could also try the same outreach to all of the local weeklies in Manhattan. These are always thirsty for young writers who are willing to pound the pavement, they might even ask you for your opinion too, someday.
Building a worthwhile base for another publication will give you a lot of extra credential when you are trying to book (or enter) events. Because you'll have a track record, rather than being another person starting a website. I think many promoters and talented people in New York are wary of bloggers because too often they get really interested people who then flake out after a while. This has to be an ongoing project - your job.
posted by parmanparman at 8:26 PM on January 6, 2008

If you need more marketing advice, I'm in the Northeast from next week and my e-mail is in my profile.
posted by parmanparman at 8:29 PM on January 6, 2008

It's not illegal to play in the NYC streets and subways at all. You have to audition and receive a license.

Take a look at this article. The listed performers' websites are at the end; try contacting them to find out what - if anything - your organization could do for them.

However, I have a potentially profitable idea

You need to make up your mind. Is it a non-profit, or does it profit? Is your desire to help the struggling artists of NYC, or are you more interested in obtaining a monthly check for providing this service? If it's the latter, quit right now. There are easier ways to make money than trying to do something you know nothing about.

The first thing you need to do is either learn the technical skills necessary to set up the website, or else find someone else who's willing to do it for free. As you've discovered, $1000 and 300 hours gets you a non-working, non-professional-appearing website. Paying a disinterested pro to set up the kind of website you want - a slick, customized, professional-appearing website that works, managing multiple portfolios of multimedia with content always rotating in or out - would probably cost, oh, I don't know, $50 grand or so? (Others can correct me if I'm wrong.) Since the core of your idea is 'setting up a website', you should focus on ways to do this in a cost-effective manner.

Second, I'd recommend starting under the assumption that no one but you is going to do anything for free. That's been my experience.
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:15 AM on January 7, 2008