Help me figure out what to do about my relationship.
December 25, 2007 9:02 PM Subscribe
Help me sort out my feelings about the relationship I’m in because I just can’t seem to figure it out. (long and complicated - sorry!)
(I apologize in advance for the length and thank anyone who can actually read the whole thing and offer some insight.)
My girlfriend and I have been together for three years. I’m 25 and she’s 28. We are the somewhat stereotypical lesbian relationship: we met while we were in (unsatisfying) relationships with other people, left our respective partners to be together, became attached at the hip early on (once we started officially seeing each other we did not spend one night apart…. hardly ever), moved across the country together after only dating for six months, and now we live in a big city in a tiny one-bedroom apartment with a dog. We don’t have a lot of friends outside the relationship (a problem we’ve always recognized but never truly tried to fix) and we’re both homebodies for the most part. We even have lunch together almost every day during the week since our offices are close by. Most of the time, this is all okay and even great. I love spending time with her and never get sick of just “hanging out” with her.
When we first met, the sparks and chemistry and intensity was incredible. I have never felt that before in my life. In my heart, I truly felt that this is the person I want to spend my life with; this is the person that I want to grow old with. We connect in ways that I never connected with anyone – intellectually and otherwise.
After about six months to a year (shortly after moving in together), our sex life started to fizzle (think lesbian bed death syndrome). Then she told me that she has memories of being abused as a child, both physically and sexually, mostly the former. Her father was the source of her physical abuse, possibly the sexual abuse as well. In addition, her mother is completely in denial about any of the abuse taking place and has been the cause of my girlfriend having multiple emotional breakdowns since she has started to come to grips with her past abuse. She is in therapy and taking steps to heal and move past the abuse, but I believe it will be a long arduous process. I have done some reading about surviving abuse and the effects on intimate relationships and I won’t lie – I’m scared sh*tless. I’m worried that I am in a relationship that will never ever have satisfying sex again, that my girlfriend will always be the victim when we have arguments and use her past abuse as an excuse for her behavior, and I’m worried that I’ve gotten myself into something I don’t know how to handle.
Our sexual pattern goes something like this: I will initiate sex, usually in a nonverbal way like kissing her, and she will make it apparent that she isn’t interested. I feel disappointed, back down, and then later (either 10 minutes later or two days later, it doesn’t matter), SHE will initiate sex, usually verbally by asking me if I am interested. I generally accept the invitation, we have sex, and then we don’t have sex again for a while (this varies, lately the time between sex has been about two to four weeks). Tonight I told her that this pattern wasn’t working for me anymore, that I don’t like always being rejected only to be invited to have sex later on. Of course this is a control issue. She told me that she needs me to verbally ask her permission before doing anything physical with her – that she doesn’t like it when I start to kiss her, take her belt off, whatever it might be. I obliged to this request, but I feel like it is insane. I don’t know if I can have a sexual relationship with someone who needs me to spell out exactly what I want to do before I do it… like I need to get her to sign an imaginary permission slip before I’m allowed to make love to her. Besides making me feel like a pawn, it completely takes the spontaneity out of sex and kind of makes me not want to do it in the end.
Sometimes I really don’t even want to have sex with her because it is so predictable, so vanilla… I want her to take charge once and a while and do something crazy or different. But she’s only interested in nice, calm, Sarah McLachlan-y sex. Anything else freaks her out (including toys, different positions, etc.). She’s always worried that things will “trigger” her, which I respect and understand… it’s just incredibly disappointing.
Here’s the part where I make my big confession… I have been a less than stellar girlfriend in the faithfulness department. In the past year and a half I have cheated on her with three different people… two of those three people were ongoing affairs that lasted several months. They didn’t mean anything to me past the sex they provided… I was just so incredibly frustrated by the lack of sex in my relationship and so eager to find out what I was missing. They were fun, but that was it – I wasn’t in love with any of them, nor was I interested in prolonging the affairs past their prime. I ended things with the two ongoing people early this year and don’t intend to have any repeat performances. Yes, I got tested and everything was negative re STDs. My guilt was enough to make me realize that it was a mistake. I don’t know why I did it, really… but I think maybe I was just sabotaging this relationship because I’m so worried about the issues she has and the issues we have together. And I thought “oh, I’m young, I shouldn’t be sexless,” etc. etc. Stupid, yes. But it’s over and done with. And she doesn’t know what happened – I decided it would be a horrible idea to tell her because she’s already dealing with enough.
One of the reasons I don’t have a lot of platonic friends outside my relationship with my girlfriend is that I think I tend to sexualize friendships. That’s a different issue for a different post, but I felt I needed to say it here. Maybe one of the reasons I do it is because I feel very sexually repressed and I am subconsciously looking for an outlet in everyone that I meet. Generally, if I’m not sexually attracted to someone I don’t make much effort to have a friendship with them and we lose touch. Weird, yes.
Sometimes, crazy as it may seem, we have this seemingly perfect life together… we’re thinking about the future together and where we might be living in the next year (we might be moving out of the area so she can pursue grad school), and I’m always imagining the house we’ll live in and the life we can build together. But are my hopes for our future overshadowing the problems in our relationship, and is going along with whatever she wants when she wants it just going to dig me in deeper to issues that I am not prepared to deal with?
We went to couples therapy once last year and it was absolutely not helpful for me. Partly because our therapist had this “I don’t keep secrets” policy, so I could never tell her about my infidelities if I wanted her to keep them confidential. But also because I have a hard time talking about serious stuff face to face with a total stranger. Hence the AskMe post.
I feel as though there is a lot more to mention here that I am neglecting to include… mostly I just worry about being the constantly supportive girl in the relationship while my needs are being pushed aside because hers are more important… something like that.
Help?
(I apologize in advance for the length and thank anyone who can actually read the whole thing and offer some insight.)
My girlfriend and I have been together for three years. I’m 25 and she’s 28. We are the somewhat stereotypical lesbian relationship: we met while we were in (unsatisfying) relationships with other people, left our respective partners to be together, became attached at the hip early on (once we started officially seeing each other we did not spend one night apart…. hardly ever), moved across the country together after only dating for six months, and now we live in a big city in a tiny one-bedroom apartment with a dog. We don’t have a lot of friends outside the relationship (a problem we’ve always recognized but never truly tried to fix) and we’re both homebodies for the most part. We even have lunch together almost every day during the week since our offices are close by. Most of the time, this is all okay and even great. I love spending time with her and never get sick of just “hanging out” with her.
When we first met, the sparks and chemistry and intensity was incredible. I have never felt that before in my life. In my heart, I truly felt that this is the person I want to spend my life with; this is the person that I want to grow old with. We connect in ways that I never connected with anyone – intellectually and otherwise.
After about six months to a year (shortly after moving in together), our sex life started to fizzle (think lesbian bed death syndrome). Then she told me that she has memories of being abused as a child, both physically and sexually, mostly the former. Her father was the source of her physical abuse, possibly the sexual abuse as well. In addition, her mother is completely in denial about any of the abuse taking place and has been the cause of my girlfriend having multiple emotional breakdowns since she has started to come to grips with her past abuse. She is in therapy and taking steps to heal and move past the abuse, but I believe it will be a long arduous process. I have done some reading about surviving abuse and the effects on intimate relationships and I won’t lie – I’m scared sh*tless. I’m worried that I am in a relationship that will never ever have satisfying sex again, that my girlfriend will always be the victim when we have arguments and use her past abuse as an excuse for her behavior, and I’m worried that I’ve gotten myself into something I don’t know how to handle.
Our sexual pattern goes something like this: I will initiate sex, usually in a nonverbal way like kissing her, and she will make it apparent that she isn’t interested. I feel disappointed, back down, and then later (either 10 minutes later or two days later, it doesn’t matter), SHE will initiate sex, usually verbally by asking me if I am interested. I generally accept the invitation, we have sex, and then we don’t have sex again for a while (this varies, lately the time between sex has been about two to four weeks). Tonight I told her that this pattern wasn’t working for me anymore, that I don’t like always being rejected only to be invited to have sex later on. Of course this is a control issue. She told me that she needs me to verbally ask her permission before doing anything physical with her – that she doesn’t like it when I start to kiss her, take her belt off, whatever it might be. I obliged to this request, but I feel like it is insane. I don’t know if I can have a sexual relationship with someone who needs me to spell out exactly what I want to do before I do it… like I need to get her to sign an imaginary permission slip before I’m allowed to make love to her. Besides making me feel like a pawn, it completely takes the spontaneity out of sex and kind of makes me not want to do it in the end.
Sometimes I really don’t even want to have sex with her because it is so predictable, so vanilla… I want her to take charge once and a while and do something crazy or different. But she’s only interested in nice, calm, Sarah McLachlan-y sex. Anything else freaks her out (including toys, different positions, etc.). She’s always worried that things will “trigger” her, which I respect and understand… it’s just incredibly disappointing.
Here’s the part where I make my big confession… I have been a less than stellar girlfriend in the faithfulness department. In the past year and a half I have cheated on her with three different people… two of those three people were ongoing affairs that lasted several months. They didn’t mean anything to me past the sex they provided… I was just so incredibly frustrated by the lack of sex in my relationship and so eager to find out what I was missing. They were fun, but that was it – I wasn’t in love with any of them, nor was I interested in prolonging the affairs past their prime. I ended things with the two ongoing people early this year and don’t intend to have any repeat performances. Yes, I got tested and everything was negative re STDs. My guilt was enough to make me realize that it was a mistake. I don’t know why I did it, really… but I think maybe I was just sabotaging this relationship because I’m so worried about the issues she has and the issues we have together. And I thought “oh, I’m young, I shouldn’t be sexless,” etc. etc. Stupid, yes. But it’s over and done with. And she doesn’t know what happened – I decided it would be a horrible idea to tell her because she’s already dealing with enough.
One of the reasons I don’t have a lot of platonic friends outside my relationship with my girlfriend is that I think I tend to sexualize friendships. That’s a different issue for a different post, but I felt I needed to say it here. Maybe one of the reasons I do it is because I feel very sexually repressed and I am subconsciously looking for an outlet in everyone that I meet. Generally, if I’m not sexually attracted to someone I don’t make much effort to have a friendship with them and we lose touch. Weird, yes.
Sometimes, crazy as it may seem, we have this seemingly perfect life together… we’re thinking about the future together and where we might be living in the next year (we might be moving out of the area so she can pursue grad school), and I’m always imagining the house we’ll live in and the life we can build together. But are my hopes for our future overshadowing the problems in our relationship, and is going along with whatever she wants when she wants it just going to dig me in deeper to issues that I am not prepared to deal with?
We went to couples therapy once last year and it was absolutely not helpful for me. Partly because our therapist had this “I don’t keep secrets” policy, so I could never tell her about my infidelities if I wanted her to keep them confidential. But also because I have a hard time talking about serious stuff face to face with a total stranger. Hence the AskMe post.
I feel as though there is a lot more to mention here that I am neglecting to include… mostly I just worry about being the constantly supportive girl in the relationship while my needs are being pushed aside because hers are more important… something like that.
Help?
It seems like you're more in love with the idea of a relationship than with your girlfriend.
posted by kerfuffled at 9:12 PM on December 25, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by kerfuffled at 9:12 PM on December 25, 2007 [2 favorites]
I'm too tired to really think all this through right now, but I will say this: you need your own therapist, and you both need to go back into couples' therapy (and not with your old couples' shrink - find someone new).
I am a lesbian, and have been...forever, and I've been you now and again in various relationships. Your frustration and fear are both understandable. You need to work on your communications skills, because there's a whole lot in this post that I suspect you haven't told your gf (not just the stuff about cheating, but the stuff about how you feel, and how afraid you are) - and you should be telling her, not us.
posted by rtha at 9:21 PM on December 25, 2007
I am a lesbian, and have been...forever, and I've been you now and again in various relationships. Your frustration and fear are both understandable. You need to work on your communications skills, because there's a whole lot in this post that I suspect you haven't told your gf (not just the stuff about cheating, but the stuff about how you feel, and how afraid you are) - and you should be telling her, not us.
posted by rtha at 9:21 PM on December 25, 2007
It seems clear enough that you have to compromise on the verbal / nonverbal thing... That's just a preference, really, and it seems to me you can initiate verbally without it turning into a business contract or something - you can be flirty and cute and just start describing hot things you want to do, or whatever. You could easily make that sexy - just tell her how much you want her, look into her eyes but keep your hands away - even work yourself up by not allowing yourself to touch her until she touches you first, but talk about what you want to do. If being touched without direct consent is an issue to start with, it will only become exacerbated if you continually dismiss the psychological dreck that gets brought up by your casual actions. It's not your fault, of course, and casual touching seems normal to most people, but if you try to reconfigure the way you interact rather than hold it against her that she doesn't respond precisely the way you do, it will probably have better results in the long run.
I dunno about not telling her about the cheating - that seems like something you should talk to a therapist about, at least. If you spend that much time with your girlfriend, how did you have time for those affairs? Did she never suspect a thing?
posted by mdn at 9:27 PM on December 25, 2007
I dunno about not telling her about the cheating - that seems like something you should talk to a therapist about, at least. If you spend that much time with your girlfriend, how did you have time for those affairs? Did she never suspect a thing?
posted by mdn at 9:27 PM on December 25, 2007
You are going to hear from a ton of people advising you to break up with your girlfriend. I don't think that's a decision we're qualified to make for you. But I will say that you need to talk to your girlfriend. Whether that means finding a new therapist, one who makes you comfortable enough to be honest, or just sitting down with her and telling her how you really feel, you need to find a way to be frank with her about what you're thinking and feeling.
It sounds like you're keeping a lot of this from her because you're afraid of hurting her. You think of her as a fragile person who needs to be protected from the reality of life, including the worst of your feelings and recent behavior. And that comes from a place of love; it's a sign that you care about her, that you want to protect her. But it's also incredibly patronizing. By not telling her the truth about what's going on in a relationship in which she's supposed to be an equal partner, you're treating her like less than a fully adult woman. You're treating her like a child who can't handle the truth of the situation, and thus shouldn't be permitted to make her own decisions. And that's even more unfair to her than heaping a lot of emotionally upsetting information on her would be.
Right now, you have all the power because you have all of the information about what's really going on in your relationship, and she has little or no information. Give her some power back. If you can't do that, if you can't find a way to be more vulnerable with this woman you clearly love very deeply, then yes, I think you do need to let her go. But it would be better for both of you if you could find a way to let her in on some of your secrets, so that you could make decisions that affect both of you together, so that neither of you would have to feel so alone anymore.
posted by decathecting at 9:28 PM on December 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you're keeping a lot of this from her because you're afraid of hurting her. You think of her as a fragile person who needs to be protected from the reality of life, including the worst of your feelings and recent behavior. And that comes from a place of love; it's a sign that you care about her, that you want to protect her. But it's also incredibly patronizing. By not telling her the truth about what's going on in a relationship in which she's supposed to be an equal partner, you're treating her like less than a fully adult woman. You're treating her like a child who can't handle the truth of the situation, and thus shouldn't be permitted to make her own decisions. And that's even more unfair to her than heaping a lot of emotionally upsetting information on her would be.
Right now, you have all the power because you have all of the information about what's really going on in your relationship, and she has little or no information. Give her some power back. If you can't do that, if you can't find a way to be more vulnerable with this woman you clearly love very deeply, then yes, I think you do need to let her go. But it would be better for both of you if you could find a way to let her in on some of your secrets, so that you could make decisions that affect both of you together, so that neither of you would have to feel so alone anymore.
posted by decathecting at 9:28 PM on December 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
I hesitate to reply because this is very complex, and hard to get a grip on. Also I'm a hetro guy, but that shouldn't matter. To get to the point I was in a relationship much like this, though there had been no abuse that I was aware of, there was drug addiction and...
all I will say is it wasn't easy, I had therapy and I don't intend to gloss over. But if you can be sexually attracted to someone else, and act on that, and do so repetitiously, it's probably time to move on.
Not that it's all about sex, but that is a deep betrayal (not judging, I've done worse than you) and it reaches a point where it isn't fair to either of you.
In my case it had to be a clean break with no more contact. I did call her father on 9/11 but he refused to speak about anything much (that was 3 years after her months of calls and letters I never responded to) and I came to realize I had romanticized the relationship, which was sexual from the start (and it's best if they aren't, but almost impossible). We were just different in too many ways. Of course I found her high, cheating with a friend, but still remained roomates, just to be friends. I understood, empathized even. And shit, no two situations are alike, but it sounds to me like you need some serious dialog and a quick end to the relationship.
That or lots of exceptional therapy and very deep patience. I wish you well, knowing it will be all fine one day. The human heart is amazingly resilient. Don't despair, and don't be afraid to be decisive. Cheers.
posted by dawson at 9:29 PM on December 25, 2007
all I will say is it wasn't easy, I had therapy and I don't intend to gloss over. But if you can be sexually attracted to someone else, and act on that, and do so repetitiously, it's probably time to move on.
Not that it's all about sex, but that is a deep betrayal (not judging, I've done worse than you) and it reaches a point where it isn't fair to either of you.
In my case it had to be a clean break with no more contact. I did call her father on 9/11 but he refused to speak about anything much (that was 3 years after her months of calls and letters I never responded to) and I came to realize I had romanticized the relationship, which was sexual from the start (and it's best if they aren't, but almost impossible). We were just different in too many ways. Of course I found her high, cheating with a friend, but still remained roomates, just to be friends. I understood, empathized even. And shit, no two situations are alike, but it sounds to me like you need some serious dialog and a quick end to the relationship.
That or lots of exceptional therapy and very deep patience. I wish you well, knowing it will be all fine one day. The human heart is amazingly resilient. Don't despair, and don't be afraid to be decisive. Cheers.
posted by dawson at 9:29 PM on December 25, 2007
Talking about it face to face with a therapist will be good practice for talking about it face to face with your girlfriend, and for all the other times in your life when you'll have to talk to people. You'll get to know and trust your therapist over time, and then you won't be talking with someone you don't know. You can share little by little, as you get comfortable. This is a skill that it's important to learn, and therapy is a great place to learn it.
(Which is a roundabout way of saying that I think your reticence to go to therapy is all the more reason that you should try therapy. Online or phone therapy is usually designed for people who can't, for logistical reasons, meet a therapist in person. It shouldn't be used as a way to avoid having difficult conversations.)
posted by decathecting at 9:47 PM on December 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
(Which is a roundabout way of saying that I think your reticence to go to therapy is all the more reason that you should try therapy. Online or phone therapy is usually designed for people who can't, for logistical reasons, meet a therapist in person. It shouldn't be used as a way to avoid having difficult conversations.)
posted by decathecting at 9:47 PM on December 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
I don’t know why I did it, really…
Oooh! Oooh! I know! I know!
You wanted sex, and you weren't getting any.
I sympathize that your girlfriend has had some really horrible things happen to her, but it was very unfair of her to get involved with you, offer plenty of sex, and then suddenly freeze up like this. If she had problems you should have known about them in the beginning. It feels like she used sex to get you to be more involved with her, and then once you were firmly a couple she backed off from it.
You need her to know that sex is important to you, that it needs to be spontaneous, and she needs to focus her time right now in therapy on discerning between the old bad touch that appears to be freaking her out right now, and the good touch you gave her, and that she appeared to be able to handle quite well until a few months with you had passed. Basically, her inability to be comfortable being sexually intimate is in direct conflict with your tendency to sexualize interactions.
It was wrong of you to cheat on her. Let her know, however, that you're not getting what you need from the relationship and that if it continues this way you'll be tempted to look to other arenas for what you need.
...
I know online therapists sound appealing, but there is a lot of psychological messages that will be missed if all they can see is your written word. Emotions exist both in and outside of words, so your whole self needs to be present for the best work to be done (IMO).
posted by Deathalicious at 9:55 PM on December 25, 2007
Oooh! Oooh! I know! I know!
You wanted sex, and you weren't getting any.
I sympathize that your girlfriend has had some really horrible things happen to her, but it was very unfair of her to get involved with you, offer plenty of sex, and then suddenly freeze up like this. If she had problems you should have known about them in the beginning. It feels like she used sex to get you to be more involved with her, and then once you were firmly a couple she backed off from it.
You need her to know that sex is important to you, that it needs to be spontaneous, and she needs to focus her time right now in therapy on discerning between the old bad touch that appears to be freaking her out right now, and the good touch you gave her, and that she appeared to be able to handle quite well until a few months with you had passed. Basically, her inability to be comfortable being sexually intimate is in direct conflict with your tendency to sexualize interactions.
It was wrong of you to cheat on her. Let her know, however, that you're not getting what you need from the relationship and that if it continues this way you'll be tempted to look to other arenas for what you need.
...
I know online therapists sound appealing, but there is a lot of psychological messages that will be missed if all they can see is your written word. Emotions exist both in and outside of words, so your whole self needs to be present for the best work to be done (IMO).
posted by Deathalicious at 9:55 PM on December 25, 2007
I don’t know why I did it, really…
Yeah, you do. People always know. They pretend they don't, but they do. You did it because you wanted hot sex with someone who made it clear they wanted you. Understandable. Still wrong based on the terms of your relationship, but understandable.
Partly because our therapist had this “I don’t keep secrets” policy
That's a pretty fucked up therapist. Find one who isn't an idiot. And yeah, find one in-person. Online 'therapy' is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of. A therapist needs the total of what's going on--they need to see your facial expression while you talk about something, your body language, your tone of voice.
Here's the thing: your relationship is basically over. You've shown that it isn't that important to you by sleeping around. That's not judgement! You had an agreement with your girlfriend.. getting off was more important than that agreement, which is basically everything you need to know.
Obviously you don't want to hurt her. That's admirable, but as said above, kind of patronizing (matronizing?). I've been on the flipside of that.. there is nothing worse than someone sayign "Well i didn't want to hurt you, so I didn't tell you." Treat me like an adult, not like a child. Treat her like an adult.
Get a couples' therapist who will also see both of you individually. But honestly, I don't think that's going to go much of anywhere. Good luck anyway.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:06 PM on December 25, 2007 [3 favorites]
Yeah, you do. People always know. They pretend they don't, but they do. You did it because you wanted hot sex with someone who made it clear they wanted you. Understandable. Still wrong based on the terms of your relationship, but understandable.
Partly because our therapist had this “I don’t keep secrets” policy
That's a pretty fucked up therapist. Find one who isn't an idiot. And yeah, find one in-person. Online 'therapy' is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of. A therapist needs the total of what's going on--they need to see your facial expression while you talk about something, your body language, your tone of voice.
Here's the thing: your relationship is basically over. You've shown that it isn't that important to you by sleeping around. That's not judgement! You had an agreement with your girlfriend.. getting off was more important than that agreement, which is basically everything you need to know.
Obviously you don't want to hurt her. That's admirable, but as said above, kind of patronizing (matronizing?). I've been on the flipside of that.. there is nothing worse than someone sayign "Well i didn't want to hurt you, so I didn't tell you." Treat me like an adult, not like a child. Treat her like an adult.
Get a couples' therapist who will also see both of you individually. But honestly, I don't think that's going to go much of anywhere. Good luck anyway.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:06 PM on December 25, 2007 [3 favorites]
You *are* young, and you *do* deserve to be sexual. Now that that's out of the way, obviously infidelity is not the way to go about it. It's time to get a therapist who isn't insane, or at least, a therapist that's just for you.
And if it were just the sex, I'd suggest making an arrangement with your partner wherein you come up with an acceptable signal to show your intent, to which she can respond to avoid the rejection issue. Then, slowly add the non-vanilla aspects of your sexuality in with masturbation first, then mutual masturbation. If none of this is acceptable to her, then you could broach the idea of a sexually open relationship. We can become acclimated to all sorts of things, if we take it slowly and break it down to the most basic steps, first.
But it's not just the sex. If you separate out the caretaker/her therapy/her fragility issues from the sex, I think you'll see that as much as you want this to be a perfect relationship, you know it's not. It's comfortable, and familiar, and you still love your partner. That doesn't mean you're still in love with her, though. You're bending over backwards to accommodate her needs, and that's admirable, but what is she doing to accommodate yours?
You're already lying to her, not just about cheating, but about how you feel on a daily basis. You're lying about your own sexuality, you're lying about your feelings when it comes to the way you argue- you don't have a good marriage here. You have a particularly thorny friendship. Do not buy a house, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. If you're going to make a lifetime commitment, you need to make it anticipating a friend, and partner, a mutually satisfying sex life, and balance and parity in your disagreements. Right now you have the friend.
Get a therapist of your own. Try to create a more accommodating method of sexual approach with her. Quit letting her needs supercede all of yours. And be prepared to realize that this is probably over, and you're really looking for permission to break up with someone you love, even if you're not in love anymore. It's okay, really. It doesn't make you a bad person.
posted by headspace at 10:51 PM on December 25, 2007
And if it were just the sex, I'd suggest making an arrangement with your partner wherein you come up with an acceptable signal to show your intent, to which she can respond to avoid the rejection issue. Then, slowly add the non-vanilla aspects of your sexuality in with masturbation first, then mutual masturbation. If none of this is acceptable to her, then you could broach the idea of a sexually open relationship. We can become acclimated to all sorts of things, if we take it slowly and break it down to the most basic steps, first.
But it's not just the sex. If you separate out the caretaker/her therapy/her fragility issues from the sex, I think you'll see that as much as you want this to be a perfect relationship, you know it's not. It's comfortable, and familiar, and you still love your partner. That doesn't mean you're still in love with her, though. You're bending over backwards to accommodate her needs, and that's admirable, but what is she doing to accommodate yours?
You're already lying to her, not just about cheating, but about how you feel on a daily basis. You're lying about your own sexuality, you're lying about your feelings when it comes to the way you argue- you don't have a good marriage here. You have a particularly thorny friendship. Do not buy a house, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. If you're going to make a lifetime commitment, you need to make it anticipating a friend, and partner, a mutually satisfying sex life, and balance and parity in your disagreements. Right now you have the friend.
Get a therapist of your own. Try to create a more accommodating method of sexual approach with her. Quit letting her needs supercede all of yours. And be prepared to realize that this is probably over, and you're really looking for permission to break up with someone you love, even if you're not in love anymore. It's okay, really. It doesn't make you a bad person.
posted by headspace at 10:51 PM on December 25, 2007
Your letter resonated with me so much that I actually joined just to comment.
Someone said in an earlier comment that you had all the power... but in a way, it seems like she does. I've dated two guys who were very similar to the way that you describe your girlfriend, and both times I ended up in a relationship that was completely on their terms. They used their depression, anxiety and past experiences like a big Cattle Prod o' Guilt to make me do what they wanted. Every time I attempted to modify our relationship into something that worked for both of us, they acted like I was kicking them when they were down, being unreasonably demanding when they already were under such trauma. Which I was, of course, since they were *always* down and *always* traumatized.
And because I loved them, and wanted to be nice, and didn't want to hurt them... I was rewarding this poor-little-me behavior. I'd want to do [X], they'd want me to do [Y] instead, they'd play the victim card, and I'd roll over. It became like a button that they just had to push to get their way... and who wouldn't push that button when you provide it to them?
I won't tell you to dump your girlfriend, but I will say this -- if this is a relationship that you want to be in forever, then the relationship should fill the needs that are important to you. Sex is obviously one of those, if it was worth jeopardizing your relationship to get it, and it sounds like you're unhappy in several other areas as well. If you can't turn that relationship into something that fits who you really are, then you'll never be content in it.
I know a lot of people who've been abused and molested... in fact, I'm one of them. We fall into two groups... those of us who let it run our lives, and those who don't. She's letting it run (and ruin) her life right now, and that means that she's still being abused. Jamesian psychology says, in a nutshell, "Fake it 'til you make it"... and the act of her gritting her teeth and powering past her hang-ups may be the key to them genuinely losing their hold on her. If she's indulged to the point that she never has to get over it... she may never do it on her own.
Anyway, good luck, and I hope things turn out well for you.
posted by Gianna at 11:11 PM on December 25, 2007 [12 favorites]
Someone said in an earlier comment that you had all the power... but in a way, it seems like she does. I've dated two guys who were very similar to the way that you describe your girlfriend, and both times I ended up in a relationship that was completely on their terms. They used their depression, anxiety and past experiences like a big Cattle Prod o' Guilt to make me do what they wanted. Every time I attempted to modify our relationship into something that worked for both of us, they acted like I was kicking them when they were down, being unreasonably demanding when they already were under such trauma. Which I was, of course, since they were *always* down and *always* traumatized.
And because I loved them, and wanted to be nice, and didn't want to hurt them... I was rewarding this poor-little-me behavior. I'd want to do [X], they'd want me to do [Y] instead, they'd play the victim card, and I'd roll over. It became like a button that they just had to push to get their way... and who wouldn't push that button when you provide it to them?
I won't tell you to dump your girlfriend, but I will say this -- if this is a relationship that you want to be in forever, then the relationship should fill the needs that are important to you. Sex is obviously one of those, if it was worth jeopardizing your relationship to get it, and it sounds like you're unhappy in several other areas as well. If you can't turn that relationship into something that fits who you really are, then you'll never be content in it.
I know a lot of people who've been abused and molested... in fact, I'm one of them. We fall into two groups... those of us who let it run our lives, and those who don't. She's letting it run (and ruin) her life right now, and that means that she's still being abused. Jamesian psychology says, in a nutshell, "Fake it 'til you make it"... and the act of her gritting her teeth and powering past her hang-ups may be the key to them genuinely losing their hold on her. If she's indulged to the point that she never has to get over it... she may never do it on her own.
Anyway, good luck, and I hope things turn out well for you.
posted by Gianna at 11:11 PM on December 25, 2007 [12 favorites]
Frankly, you owe it to yourself and your partner to end this relationship. You are clearly unhappy, illustrated by your willingness to stray from what you want to believe is a loving, affectionate relationship. You are being incredibly nasty by not coming clean about your feelings to this woman who obviously needs more than a sexually willing, emotionally together but willingly cheating partner. You do not "put sex before friendships", you are seeking sex and finding it. If you cared for your partner at all, you would seek friends who would allow her to escape, even for a moment, the confinement you find yourselves in. It is this kind of gratuitous "blame" that you impart on your partner's unwillingness to deal with her problems that pinpoints for me how completely unready you are for taking the next step to being an adult and dealing with your own problems.
You might be planning a future together. I have been there, "planning", and I planned for a long time without ever getting a green light in my ex-girlfriend's mind nor my own that meant anything would ever go forward. When you realize that you can see a year ahead but still can only feel the misery of one more day, it is time to reach out and end this relationship.
posted by parmanparman at 12:00 AM on December 26, 2007
You might be planning a future together. I have been there, "planning", and I planned for a long time without ever getting a green light in my ex-girlfriend's mind nor my own that meant anything would ever go forward. When you realize that you can see a year ahead but still can only feel the misery of one more day, it is time to reach out and end this relationship.
posted by parmanparman at 12:00 AM on December 26, 2007
Therapy. Asking random strangers on the internet isn't going to help you much, as it's an irregular source of different opinions and techniques, some of which will run counter to each other. Think about it, if you were trying to get in shape, you wouldn't just ask a group of people on the street what you should do, you've go to the gym and get a professional trainer to work with you.
You need some form of regular, professional help to sort all this out. Good luck!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:22 AM on December 26, 2007
You need some form of regular, professional help to sort all this out. Good luck!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:22 AM on December 26, 2007
Mostly you need to be honest with yourself about what you want. If she left you tomorrow would you have a sense of relief?
Staying with someone because they are fragile doesn't work, it really doesn't work if you are doing something so potentially hurtful as cheating on them.
When your partner makes it clear that they do not desire you, it erodes your self esteem. I agree with other posters that you cheat because you want/need sex but maybe you are also mad and hurt.
Difference in libido isn't a right/wrong issue but cheating sure is.
Is there any chance that her lack of desire would allow her to consider an open relationship?
"my wife doesn't understand me" was almost an excuse when people were trapped in relationships. When moving on is there for the taking, it might be better to hurt someone in an upfront way and not a passive way.
Life is short and love is not enough. I have been there and wasted a fair amount of time and having finally met the right person, I can hardly bare to look back at how I lived.
It is a good reason to take relationships, or at least commitment ,very slow, everyone seems interested in sex for the first six months.
posted by InkaLomax at 5:40 AM on December 26, 2007
Staying with someone because they are fragile doesn't work, it really doesn't work if you are doing something so potentially hurtful as cheating on them.
When your partner makes it clear that they do not desire you, it erodes your self esteem. I agree with other posters that you cheat because you want/need sex but maybe you are also mad and hurt.
Difference in libido isn't a right/wrong issue but cheating sure is.
Is there any chance that her lack of desire would allow her to consider an open relationship?
"my wife doesn't understand me" was almost an excuse when people were trapped in relationships. When moving on is there for the taking, it might be better to hurt someone in an upfront way and not a passive way.
Life is short and love is not enough. I have been there and wasted a fair amount of time and having finally met the right person, I can hardly bare to look back at how I lived.
It is a good reason to take relationships, or at least commitment ,very slow, everyone seems interested in sex for the first six months.
posted by InkaLomax at 5:40 AM on December 26, 2007
Some problems seem apparent... Within the structure of the relationship (the cocooning and spending all your free time together), you must each be "all-things" to each other all the time - friends, lovers, emotional support, entertainment, excitement, nurturing. Wow. That's hard.
And it certainly complicates what may be an already existing ambiguities for each of you. You have a problem distinguishing between friendships and romances (or physically intimate relationships), and she has problems distinguishing between sexual love and sexual hurt, so the safest part of your relationship for her is the friendship side, while the safest part for you may possibly be the sexual side... which means (I'm conjecturing!), that you both suffer from confusion about your relationship on your own, and you each probably suffer from confusion arising from the other person's confusion. Confusing!
Having other friends and interests in your lives could possibly dispel some of that by providing each of you with some outside support and stimulation so that you can see each other clearer in your true roles (whether those turn out to be "partner" or "friend"), but this would also, apparently, be a bit of a minefield if you are only interested in being friends with people you are sexually attracted to. So, yeah - good professional counseling is probably key, perhaps each on your own, as well as as a couple.
I don't think either of you are terribly weird or disturbed, but your problems are colliding in ways that make your relationship very murky, and it's no wonder that you can't sort it out all on your own.
posted by taz at 6:02 AM on December 26, 2007
And it certainly complicates what may be an already existing ambiguities for each of you. You have a problem distinguishing between friendships and romances (or physically intimate relationships), and she has problems distinguishing between sexual love and sexual hurt, so the safest part of your relationship for her is the friendship side, while the safest part for you may possibly be the sexual side... which means (I'm conjecturing!), that you both suffer from confusion about your relationship on your own, and you each probably suffer from confusion arising from the other person's confusion. Confusing!
Having other friends and interests in your lives could possibly dispel some of that by providing each of you with some outside support and stimulation so that you can see each other clearer in your true roles (whether those turn out to be "partner" or "friend"), but this would also, apparently, be a bit of a minefield if you are only interested in being friends with people you are sexually attracted to. So, yeah - good professional counseling is probably key, perhaps each on your own, as well as as a couple.
I don't think either of you are terribly weird or disturbed, but your problems are colliding in ways that make your relationship very murky, and it's no wonder that you can't sort it out all on your own.
posted by taz at 6:02 AM on December 26, 2007
You *are* young, and you *do* deserve to be sexual.
This comment really bothered me. If you choose to be in this relationship, then you are choosing your girlfriend with all of the problems that you listed. And she is choosing to be with you, despite whatever problems she sees in you. Therefore, you are not entitled to sex just because you're unhappy with your sex life. You know the affairs are wrong, but you're justifying them anyway. But they were a choice, and they were unfair to your girlfriend.
Yes, lesbian bed death can really impact a relationship. But everyone comes with baggage. Being with your girlfriend means being with her baggage. It does sound as though she's using it as an excuse for behaviors that she's not willing to change. I think both of you need individual therapy, she to deal with past abuse, you to deal with everything you're already mentioned. There's some good advice above for working on your sexual differences. And you need to be honest with her about your infidelities.
I’m worried that I am in a relationship that will never ever have satisfying sex again.
And if that is true, would that be grounds to end your relationship? Because that's one question you need to ask yourself. As I see it, you can:
(a) decide to be with her unconditionally;
(b) set conditions that certain things will change, and together determine those conditions and a time line for addressing them; or
(c) decide that you can't handle this and break up with her.
Good luck.
posted by bassjump at 6:38 AM on December 26, 2007
This comment really bothered me. If you choose to be in this relationship, then you are choosing your girlfriend with all of the problems that you listed. And she is choosing to be with you, despite whatever problems she sees in you. Therefore, you are not entitled to sex just because you're unhappy with your sex life. You know the affairs are wrong, but you're justifying them anyway. But they were a choice, and they were unfair to your girlfriend.
Yes, lesbian bed death can really impact a relationship. But everyone comes with baggage. Being with your girlfriend means being with her baggage. It does sound as though she's using it as an excuse for behaviors that she's not willing to change. I think both of you need individual therapy, she to deal with past abuse, you to deal with everything you're already mentioned. There's some good advice above for working on your sexual differences. And you need to be honest with her about your infidelities.
I’m worried that I am in a relationship that will never ever have satisfying sex again.
And if that is true, would that be grounds to end your relationship? Because that's one question you need to ask yourself. As I see it, you can:
(a) decide to be with her unconditionally;
(b) set conditions that certain things will change, and together determine those conditions and a time line for addressing them; or
(c) decide that you can't handle this and break up with her.
Good luck.
posted by bassjump at 6:38 AM on December 26, 2007
We all want Miss/Mr. Right - great sex, great person, etc. Sometimes we get one or a few of these characteristics; sometimes we get it all; and sometimes we get none.
You need to talk to someone - who will ask you questions, who will want to know you as a whole being and who will empathize with you. The most efficient way to do this is in person. We are humans; we need contact with other humans.
Therapy is ideal because you can get into the intimate details a whole lot quicker than with friends (i.e. there is no need to figure out if this person is trustworthy, if this person will be supportive, etc.)
It can be tough and embarassing to come clean in front of a real person. But it is so relieving too.
I don't want to come to any conclusions about you or the relationship because I don't know you and I don't know the whole story. It would be unfair for me to say that you are wrong or she is wrong or anyone or no one is wrong.
But you are obviously worried about where your life is going and that warrants talking to somebody. It is well worth the investment in time and money - and it is fun because you get to talk about yourself the whole time!
One last thing to consider is how your g/f feels about her life and/or what she is doing with it. Is she content in her current state? Does she feel trapped? Is she actively working on a plan to change her life?
Does she know how you feel about the sex? But more importantly, is she the type of person who will actively try to make things better for you? If she is not, maybe she doesn't know how. Or maybe she just can't. Or maybe that is not her way of loving you.
Good luck!
posted by bitteroldman at 8:08 AM on December 26, 2007
You need to talk to someone - who will ask you questions, who will want to know you as a whole being and who will empathize with you. The most efficient way to do this is in person. We are humans; we need contact with other humans.
Therapy is ideal because you can get into the intimate details a whole lot quicker than with friends (i.e. there is no need to figure out if this person is trustworthy, if this person will be supportive, etc.)
It can be tough and embarassing to come clean in front of a real person. But it is so relieving too.
I don't want to come to any conclusions about you or the relationship because I don't know you and I don't know the whole story. It would be unfair for me to say that you are wrong or she is wrong or anyone or no one is wrong.
But you are obviously worried about where your life is going and that warrants talking to somebody. It is well worth the investment in time and money - and it is fun because you get to talk about yourself the whole time!
One last thing to consider is how your g/f feels about her life and/or what she is doing with it. Is she content in her current state? Does she feel trapped? Is she actively working on a plan to change her life?
Does she know how you feel about the sex? But more importantly, is she the type of person who will actively try to make things better for you? If she is not, maybe she doesn't know how. Or maybe she just can't. Or maybe that is not her way of loving you.
Good luck!
posted by bitteroldman at 8:08 AM on December 26, 2007
Have you ever brought up the idea of a threesome with her? No, seriously. Giving her control over choosing the person and during the sex she can choose how much to participate, (taking the pressure off her) she can be passive if she wants and and your sexual needs would be met.
Is she maybe controlling about the sex because there is someting else causing a power imbalance in your relationship that she is angry about but not expressing herself (who earns/spends more or who does the majority of unpaid work are two biggies in a lot of relationships)?
Since you believe that she is the one you should spend the rest of your life with you both should make as much of an effort towards improving your relationship. You have a very intertwined relationship but she cannot expect you to be her therapist as well. She needs to see someone to work through her own issues, and you would probably benefit as well from your own therapist. If you don't feel comfortable with face to face right away then find a therapist that will begin via online therapy but give yourself (and the therapist) a time limit before meeting face to face to continue the therapy. That way you will have built up a relationship online, filled her in on most of the backstory in your own words, but are not denying the therapist a chance to use all her tools in face to face therapy. Good Luck.
posted by saucysault at 9:48 AM on December 26, 2007
Is she maybe controlling about the sex because there is someting else causing a power imbalance in your relationship that she is angry about but not expressing herself (who earns/spends more or who does the majority of unpaid work are two biggies in a lot of relationships)?
Since you believe that she is the one you should spend the rest of your life with you both should make as much of an effort towards improving your relationship. You have a very intertwined relationship but she cannot expect you to be her therapist as well. She needs to see someone to work through her own issues, and you would probably benefit as well from your own therapist. If you don't feel comfortable with face to face right away then find a therapist that will begin via online therapy but give yourself (and the therapist) a time limit before meeting face to face to continue the therapy. That way you will have built up a relationship online, filled her in on most of the backstory in your own words, but are not denying the therapist a chance to use all her tools in face to face therapy. Good Luck.
posted by saucysault at 9:48 AM on December 26, 2007
You and/or your gf might be interested in looking at The Survivor's Guide to Sex. I know several therapists in practices devoted to treating abuse survivors who think it's a good book.
posted by OmieWise at 11:05 AM on December 26, 2007
posted by OmieWise at 11:05 AM on December 26, 2007
Generally, being in a relationship means that your partner is allowed to initiate sex without having to ask permission first. Yes, both partners have the right to say 'not tonight, dear', but the attempt itself should not be seen as assault. And if your girlfriend sees it that way, then it is possible that she is not ready to be in a relationship.
But I agree with everyone else that you have to talk to her. You don't have to tell her about the cheating, but she needs to know that her emotional issues about the past have put her current relationship at risk. She may say that it's not fair, because it's not her fault she was abused. That's true, but it's not your fault either. She needs to give you some kind of assurance that she is working on her recovery with the goal of being a complete, healthy, sexual partner to you. But she doesn't yet know that you need that because you haven't told her.
Good luck to you.
posted by happyturtle at 11:07 AM on December 26, 2007
But I agree with everyone else that you have to talk to her. You don't have to tell her about the cheating, but she needs to know that her emotional issues about the past have put her current relationship at risk. She may say that it's not fair, because it's not her fault she was abused. That's true, but it's not your fault either. She needs to give you some kind of assurance that she is working on her recovery with the goal of being a complete, healthy, sexual partner to you. But she doesn't yet know that you need that because you haven't told her.
Good luck to you.
posted by happyturtle at 11:07 AM on December 26, 2007
I'm not going to give an opinion about whether you should stay together or break up. I'm just going to say that being with someone who turns you down, repeatedly, whenever you initiate sex, will wear on your self esteem slowly and subtly until you will do anything (have affairs, etc.) for someone who *wants* you.
I'm also going to say that being in a relationship is about taking care of each other - it shouldn't be one person always taking care of the other one. You should feel like your partner has "got your back." They're looking out for you. They put your needs first, and you put their needs first, and everybody's needs get met. It doesn't sound like any of this is happening for you.
Try getting a better therapist. One that you feel good about. There are hundreds - sounds like you just ended up with a bad one before. And don't give into your fear of talking to your therapist or your girlfriend. Just start talking... sometimes it's not as hard as you think it will be.
posted by eleyna at 1:04 PM on December 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm also going to say that being in a relationship is about taking care of each other - it shouldn't be one person always taking care of the other one. You should feel like your partner has "got your back." They're looking out for you. They put your needs first, and you put their needs first, and everybody's needs get met. It doesn't sound like any of this is happening for you.
Try getting a better therapist. One that you feel good about. There are hundreds - sounds like you just ended up with a bad one before. And don't give into your fear of talking to your therapist or your girlfriend. Just start talking... sometimes it's not as hard as you think it will be.
posted by eleyna at 1:04 PM on December 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
To me, this part seemed most relevant: After about six months to a year (shortly after moving in together), our sex life started to fizzle (think lesbian bed death syndrome).
So it sounds like passion was there, but at some point it fizzled. And it seems like the fizzling coincided with the moving in together. Could it be that she just has a lower sex drive, and it only came to light when you started living together, when sex theoretically could be had every night, as opposed to only on date nights?
Second thought has to do with the various previous postings about disparity in power, some saying that you have all the power, others saying that the GF has all the power. Well, I happen to think that the two of you are enabling each other in having the GF be dependent on you, and that both of you are enabling each other in the pattern of behavior. She's acting like the helpless victim, and you are allowing her to act like a helpless victim by taking care of her when she isn't. And because the dynamic is that of you as the adult and she as the child, she's following her childhood emotional/sexual patterns, which is feeling out of control/not desiring sex. So if you think if if that way, it's more than understandable that she would want to have some control over her sex life.
Also, why don't you ask her to describe to you what types of sexual acts she associates with her abuse, and just don't do any of those things? If the sexual molestation was preceded by a kiss, grabbing her belt, etc, just don't do those things, and tell her that you will never do those things. If she has trouble articulating the acts, then ask her to tell you what isn't associated with her abuse, and just stick to those.
Last, cheating is NOT okay. I'm glad you stopped it. But seeing as how the two of you started dating in the 1st place by cheating on your then partners (we met while we were in (unsatisfying) relationships with other people, left our respective partners to be together) I wonder if this is a pattern of behavior for you? Perhaps you should also think about whether a long-term, committed relationship is what you are looking for right now, and about your own expectations about what a "relationship" entails. Are you being realistic?
Good luck. Relationships are hard.
posted by jujube at 1:43 PM on December 26, 2007
So it sounds like passion was there, but at some point it fizzled. And it seems like the fizzling coincided with the moving in together. Could it be that she just has a lower sex drive, and it only came to light when you started living together, when sex theoretically could be had every night, as opposed to only on date nights?
Second thought has to do with the various previous postings about disparity in power, some saying that you have all the power, others saying that the GF has all the power. Well, I happen to think that the two of you are enabling each other in having the GF be dependent on you, and that both of you are enabling each other in the pattern of behavior. She's acting like the helpless victim, and you are allowing her to act like a helpless victim by taking care of her when she isn't. And because the dynamic is that of you as the adult and she as the child, she's following her childhood emotional/sexual patterns, which is feeling out of control/not desiring sex. So if you think if if that way, it's more than understandable that she would want to have some control over her sex life.
Also, why don't you ask her to describe to you what types of sexual acts she associates with her abuse, and just don't do any of those things? If the sexual molestation was preceded by a kiss, grabbing her belt, etc, just don't do those things, and tell her that you will never do those things. If she has trouble articulating the acts, then ask her to tell you what isn't associated with her abuse, and just stick to those.
Last, cheating is NOT okay. I'm glad you stopped it. But seeing as how the two of you started dating in the 1st place by cheating on your then partners (we met while we were in (unsatisfying) relationships with other people, left our respective partners to be together) I wonder if this is a pattern of behavior for you? Perhaps you should also think about whether a long-term, committed relationship is what you are looking for right now, and about your own expectations about what a "relationship" entails. Are you being realistic?
Good luck. Relationships are hard.
posted by jujube at 1:43 PM on December 26, 2007
Sometimes the best way to help a "fragile" person is to be completely honest with them, because nothing else will show them that they CAN handle emotional upset. If you come clean with her about the cheating, of course she'll be hurt, but it will make her a stronger person. The other side of this coin is that I think your fear of hurting her is less about her and more about the fact that you don't want to be seen as a bad person. (I speak from experience - I will jump through almost any hoops to avoid being regarded as an asshole.) Regardless of your reasons, you did something shitty, and until you're honest with her and forgive yourself, there's really no potential for a relationship here.
posted by desjardins at 10:40 AM on December 28, 2007
posted by desjardins at 10:40 AM on December 28, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by amyms at 9:10 PM on December 25, 2007