Once a cheater, always a cheater
December 17, 2007 9:07 AM Subscribe
Once a cheater always a cheater?
I will not go into details much. My bf cheated on me again. I lost tracked how many times now for the past 2 years. His explanationn is that when he gets pissed off at me, he tends to want to contact his exes and communicate with them. So far, he has been caught texting them, emails, phone calls. Nothing that proves that he met with them. But still, its betraying the trust and its cheating. I gave him another chance but it hurts whenever I remember the betrayals and just thinking that he cheats. I love him. I know I do. But I keep forgiving him. I cant help it. Is there anybody out here who went through this kind of relationship or going through it right now? Once a cheater always a cheater, is this true?
I will not go into details much. My bf cheated on me again. I lost tracked how many times now for the past 2 years. His explanationn is that when he gets pissed off at me, he tends to want to contact his exes and communicate with them. So far, he has been caught texting them, emails, phone calls. Nothing that proves that he met with them. But still, its betraying the trust and its cheating. I gave him another chance but it hurts whenever I remember the betrayals and just thinking that he cheats. I love him. I know I do. But I keep forgiving him. I cant help it. Is there anybody out here who went through this kind of relationship or going through it right now? Once a cheater always a cheater, is this true?
Girl, if you don't like to be played, then don't let yourself get played.
DTMF. Srsly.
posted by Stynxno at 9:11 AM on December 17, 2007 [4 favorites]
DTMF. Srsly.
posted by Stynxno at 9:11 AM on December 17, 2007 [4 favorites]
You forbid him from talking to his exes? If you consider that cheating than it is likely he will cheat again.
posted by mr. remy at 9:11 AM on December 17, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by mr. remy at 9:11 AM on December 17, 2007 [2 favorites]
He doesn't sound like he has any desire to change, and if you're willing to put up with his behavior, he has no incentive to change. So it's highly unlikely he'll change. Life is too short, and you deserve better. Dump him.
posted by desjardins at 9:13 AM on December 17, 2007
posted by desjardins at 9:13 AM on December 17, 2007
"Once a cheater always a cheater?"
"My bf cheated on me again."
I think you answered your own question.
posted by fusinski at 9:14 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
"My bf cheated on me again."
I think you answered your own question.
posted by fusinski at 9:14 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
I cant help it.
Start by stopping your belief that you cannot help it. You take him back because you want to. Find out why that is and you will have it worked all out.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:15 AM on December 17, 2007
Start by stopping your belief that you cannot help it. You take him back because you want to. Find out why that is and you will have it worked all out.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:15 AM on December 17, 2007
To me, contacting your exes isn't cheating, but he's not going to stop doing it.
posted by PFL at 9:17 AM on December 17, 2007
posted by PFL at 9:17 AM on December 17, 2007
Just assumed so and didn't stick around for confirmation.
posted by Fezboy! at 9:17 AM on December 17, 2007
posted by Fezboy! at 9:17 AM on December 17, 2007
My bf cheated on me again.
By talking to people? I think your tolerance of 'cheating' is extremely, unrealistically, low. I'm assuming that the '1965' in your user name is not your year of birth, then. That is an extremely 'young' position of paranoia to take.
But, regardless, from this: "His explanationn is that when he gets pissed off at me, he tends to want to contact his exes and communicate with them." it sounds like he does so mainly to spite you. In which case, ditch him. It's not what he's doing, it's that he is deliberately doing something that he knows you won't like at a time he wants to get back at you.
That's destructive.
posted by Brockles at 9:17 AM on December 17, 2007 [3 favorites]
By talking to people? I think your tolerance of 'cheating' is extremely, unrealistically, low. I'm assuming that the '1965' in your user name is not your year of birth, then. That is an extremely 'young' position of paranoia to take.
But, regardless, from this: "His explanationn is that when he gets pissed off at me, he tends to want to contact his exes and communicate with them." it sounds like he does so mainly to spite you. In which case, ditch him. It's not what he's doing, it's that he is deliberately doing something that he knows you won't like at a time he wants to get back at you.
That's destructive.
posted by Brockles at 9:17 AM on December 17, 2007 [3 favorites]
Yes. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Even if he doesn't actually cheat again, you'll always wonder.
It's almost new years, time for a fresh start. Kick him to the curb and find yourself some new hot lovin'.
posted by grumpy at 9:17 AM on December 17, 2007
It's almost new years, time for a fresh start. Kick him to the curb and find yourself some new hot lovin'.
posted by grumpy at 9:17 AM on December 17, 2007
I agree with mr. remy. If you consider that cheating (I can only base my response on what you wrote), he will indeed always be a cheater. So will most anyone you ever have a relationship with.
There are others who think like you, though, so go find one of them instead of tormenting your boyfriend (and letting him torment you) with your obviously mutually incompatible concepts of what it means to cheat.
Alternatively, gain a more common understanding of what it means to "cheat."
That, of course, presumes that all he's doing is communicating textually or verbally with his exes. If he's "communicating" physically, your understanding is within the norm and you should dump the fellow forthwith, as he obviously lacks the self control to (or the respect for you) to refrain from physical intimacy with these people.
posted by wierdo at 9:18 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
There are others who think like you, though, so go find one of them instead of tormenting your boyfriend (and letting him torment you) with your obviously mutually incompatible concepts of what it means to cheat.
Alternatively, gain a more common understanding of what it means to "cheat."
That, of course, presumes that all he's doing is communicating textually or verbally with his exes. If he's "communicating" physically, your understanding is within the norm and you should dump the fellow forthwith, as he obviously lacks the self control to (or the respect for you) to refrain from physical intimacy with these people.
posted by wierdo at 9:18 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
Is it your belief that he actually cheated on you by meeting with theses exes? Or is it your supposition that talking with them – only – constitutes cheating? Has he cheated-by-sexual-activity before, or was his earlier cheating also talking with his exes?
If it is the former, I think you're well within your rights to cut him loose. You should. If the latter, you might consider a trust/security/control issue that is as much yours as his.
posted by mr. remy at 9:20 AM on December 17, 2007
If it is the former, I think you're well within your rights to cut him loose. You should. If the latter, you might consider a trust/security/control issue that is as much yours as his.
posted by mr. remy at 9:20 AM on December 17, 2007
If this guy is the same one in your other AskMe questions you might seriously want to re-read those posts and their replies. Ask yourself why you keep hanging onto this guy if you are constantly having trust issues. I think it's high time to move on.
posted by irishkitten at 9:20 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by irishkitten at 9:20 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
Once a cheater always a cheater?
Depends on the person. In this case, the answer seems to be yes.
You know, based on your posting history, you really, really really need to break up with this guy. You've asked essentially the same question several times; you've gotten similar answers. You've chosen not to take the advice (overwhelmingly "Dump him!"). I don't know what else you want.
I love him. I know I do. But I keep forgiving him. I cant help it.
Yes, you can. Grow a spine, grow a pair of ovaries, get therapy, something. He treats you like shit because you've helped to train him that treating you like shit is ok, and there won't be any terrible consequences for him - you keep forgiving him and taking him back. What do you expect?
The problem at this point is clearly not the boyfriend - I mean, yeah, he sounds like a shithead, but you're the one tolerating this behavior. Stop it. Break up with him. If the number in your username is your birth year, then you need to start acting your age: get therapy, take responsibility for your own life, and learn how to be alone, without having to depend on someone else for a sense of your own self-worth. Especially someone who treats you badly.
Please get out, and get help. No one here wants to see your next question a few months down the line: "My bf cheated on me, and I took him back, but now I think he gave me HIV. BUt I love him. What should I do?" Do you want to write it?
posted by rtha at 9:22 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
Depends on the person. In this case, the answer seems to be yes.
You know, based on your posting history, you really, really really need to break up with this guy. You've asked essentially the same question several times; you've gotten similar answers. You've chosen not to take the advice (overwhelmingly "Dump him!"). I don't know what else you want.
I love him. I know I do. But I keep forgiving him. I cant help it.
Yes, you can. Grow a spine, grow a pair of ovaries, get therapy, something. He treats you like shit because you've helped to train him that treating you like shit is ok, and there won't be any terrible consequences for him - you keep forgiving him and taking him back. What do you expect?
The problem at this point is clearly not the boyfriend - I mean, yeah, he sounds like a shithead, but you're the one tolerating this behavior. Stop it. Break up with him. If the number in your username is your birth year, then you need to start acting your age: get therapy, take responsibility for your own life, and learn how to be alone, without having to depend on someone else for a sense of your own self-worth. Especially someone who treats you badly.
Please get out, and get help. No one here wants to see your next question a few months down the line: "My bf cheated on me, and I took him back, but now I think he gave me HIV. BUt I love him. What should I do?" Do you want to write it?
posted by rtha at 9:22 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
So far, he has been caught texting them, emails, phone calls. Nothing that proves that he met with them.
So, "cheating" is talking to an ex? Great, I have to tell my husband I am cheating on him an awful lot.
Seriously though, that isn't "cheating", but maybe going behind your back. However, Why are you forbidding him from talking to an ex? I don't think you trust him at all, and I think he resents you for it. You should dump him, but he should also dump you for thinking that ralking to an ex=cheating on someone.
posted by kellyblah at 9:22 AM on December 17, 2007
So, "cheating" is talking to an ex? Great, I have to tell my husband I am cheating on him an awful lot.
Seriously though, that isn't "cheating", but maybe going behind your back. However, Why are you forbidding him from talking to an ex? I don't think you trust him at all, and I think he resents you for it. You should dump him, but he should also dump you for thinking that ralking to an ex=cheating on someone.
posted by kellyblah at 9:22 AM on December 17, 2007
I disagree with brockles. Talking with an ex once isn't exactly cheating, nor is it something that is commonly accepted. Doing it repeatedly when it's been plainly stated that it's not acceptable to you is cheating. He's had plenty of time and chances to change. DTMFA.
posted by gauchodaspampas at 9:23 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by gauchodaspampas at 9:23 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
Irishkitten: I was going to say the exact same thing. I read the other questions and came to the exact same conclusion. People have been telling you to leave him for 6 months and for very good reason.
You seem very needy and demanding (to me personally), and a guy like that is not, if it hasn't got better after six months, going to change.
Also, if you are in a relationship where you keep (over the course of 6 months) checking emails, texts, and phone calls, looking for what happens behind your back the whole time, then something is definitely entirely unhealthy. Either that is the relationship, him, or you. Maybe that us what you should be trying to understand.
posted by Brockles at 9:25 AM on December 17, 2007
You seem very needy and demanding (to me personally), and a guy like that is not, if it hasn't got better after six months, going to change.
Also, if you are in a relationship where you keep (over the course of 6 months) checking emails, texts, and phone calls, looking for what happens behind your back the whole time, then something is definitely entirely unhealthy. Either that is the relationship, him, or you. Maybe that us what you should be trying to understand.
posted by Brockles at 9:25 AM on December 17, 2007
It's not entirely clear from your question, so...
If you define communicating with exes as cheating, understand you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of pain. That's an overly-strict concept that very few people are going to agree to.
If you are using "communicating with exes" as a euphemism for actual carnal knowledge, then yes, that's cheating, and it's unlikely to ever stop, from my experience.
Either way, as a friend long ago told me: "He's shown you what his pattern is going to be. You just have to decide whether or not you want to live with it."
posted by ambrosia at 9:25 AM on December 17, 2007
If you define communicating with exes as cheating, understand you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of pain. That's an overly-strict concept that very few people are going to agree to.
If you are using "communicating with exes" as a euphemism for actual carnal knowledge, then yes, that's cheating, and it's unlikely to ever stop, from my experience.
Either way, as a friend long ago told me: "He's shown you what his pattern is going to be. You just have to decide whether or not you want to live with it."
posted by ambrosia at 9:25 AM on December 17, 2007
I love him.
It doesn't matter how much you love this person, it matters how much you love yourself.
There are all sorts of details we could get into here, such as your definition of cheating, what he's been doing, who said what, why he gets mad at you, etc, etc, etc. None of that matters. Because based on the question you asked back in June, you are allowing yourself to remain in negative environment. You need professional help to figure out why you're letting this happen to yourself.
Good luck!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:25 AM on December 17, 2007
It doesn't matter how much you love this person, it matters how much you love yourself.
There are all sorts of details we could get into here, such as your definition of cheating, what he's been doing, who said what, why he gets mad at you, etc, etc, etc. None of that matters. Because based on the question you asked back in June, you are allowing yourself to remain in negative environment. You need professional help to figure out why you're letting this happen to yourself.
Good luck!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:25 AM on December 17, 2007
It's worth pointing out that people are disagreeing quite widely on this thread, yet all coming to the same practical conclusion about what you should do. This is significant.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 9:28 AM on December 17, 2007
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 9:28 AM on December 17, 2007
"My bf cheated on me again. I lost tracked how many times now for the past 2 years."
The curb.
Kick him to it.
posted by PossumCupCake at 9:28 AM on December 17, 2007
The curb.
Kick him to it.
posted by PossumCupCake at 9:28 AM on December 17, 2007
I saw dump him anyway, because clearly neither of you are mature enough to be in this relationship. Him for running to the exes each time you fight and you for being such a control freak and for posting on Mefi when you've already answered the question you're asking (...cheated on me again...lost track of how many times...once a cheater always a cheater, is this true?). And BOTH of you for not talking about this and getting mad at each other instead of just figuring out why you do the things you do (why you get so upset and why he does it) and how to come to a peaceful understanding.
Is the content of these communications "cheating" to you (i.e. is he trying to make plans to hook up with them) or is the fact that he communicates "cheating"? There is a big difference between the two.
Ah, I remember you now that I've looked at your history. Three previous questions where everyone has said to break up with this guy already. Why are you still asking us if you should be with him? Just break up with him and be done. This is not a healthy relationship on either end and you are all better off apart.
To answer the question asked: not always, but with this guy, maybe. Either way, you clearly aren't and won't be happy with him, so break up.
posted by ml98tu at 9:35 AM on December 17, 2007
Are you asking us if you should dump him or if once a cheater always a cheater?
Once a cheater always a cheater has a grain of truth to it, but certainly there are exceptions.
Does your boyfriend sound like an asshole? Yes. DTMFA.
posted by k8t at 9:37 AM on December 17, 2007
Once a cheater always a cheater has a grain of truth to it, but certainly there are exceptions.
Does your boyfriend sound like an asshole? Yes. DTMFA.
posted by k8t at 9:37 AM on December 17, 2007
Out of curiousity, when he was talking to the exes, what was he saying?
My husband's ex is one of our good friends. She came to our wedding, and as a present sent my husband and me to a classy hotel for a night of debauchery. I gave her (and her sister) a job at my office. We go to her parties. We hang out with her friends. The world is small, cupcake, and often it's not to WHOM your ex is talking, but what are they saying? My very best friend in the WORLD became my friend after she was my boyfriend's ex, and he straight up asked me not to speak to her. I called her that night - over 10 years ago - and struck an immediate, deep, lasting, very close friendship.
Having said that, anyone who openly acknowledges a standard of behavior that permits them with the slightest provocation to do something deliberately hurtful to exact vengeance should be (metaphorically) kicked violently to the curb. I don't care if the method of taking vengeance is moving your cheese, plucking the petals off of a row of daisies, loudly insulting the intelligence of your puppy, or farting in bed at night. Vengeance and ongoing relationships are a big fat NO. If it's taunting you by engaging in chitchat with exes intending to make you jealous, grow some self respect and (metaphorically) slap that waste of air out of your life.
posted by bunnycup at 9:42 AM on December 17, 2007 [6 favorites]
My husband's ex is one of our good friends. She came to our wedding, and as a present sent my husband and me to a classy hotel for a night of debauchery. I gave her (and her sister) a job at my office. We go to her parties. We hang out with her friends. The world is small, cupcake, and often it's not to WHOM your ex is talking, but what are they saying? My very best friend in the WORLD became my friend after she was my boyfriend's ex, and he straight up asked me not to speak to her. I called her that night - over 10 years ago - and struck an immediate, deep, lasting, very close friendship.
Having said that, anyone who openly acknowledges a standard of behavior that permits them with the slightest provocation to do something deliberately hurtful to exact vengeance should be (metaphorically) kicked violently to the curb. I don't care if the method of taking vengeance is moving your cheese, plucking the petals off of a row of daisies, loudly insulting the intelligence of your puppy, or farting in bed at night. Vengeance and ongoing relationships are a big fat NO. If it's taunting you by engaging in chitchat with exes intending to make you jealous, grow some self respect and (metaphorically) slap that waste of air out of your life.
posted by bunnycup at 9:42 AM on December 17, 2007 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Once a cheater always a cheater?
Not at all, people make mistakes, and people can change.
However, doing something once (or even a few times), and doing something consistently are different things, though I wouldn't say that under normal circumstances communicating with an ex should be considerer cheating, but the fact he's doing it specifically when he's upset with you is a little more unusual, and you do make it sound like he contacts several of them who he wouldn't normally talk to, which again is not good.
So if all that is the case, it sounds like he's acting like that to hurt you which isn't a very healthy thing to be doing and you are probably right to be worried. Not for the communication it's self, but because there is clearly more damaging intent then just keeping in touch.
posted by paulfreeman at 9:42 AM on December 17, 2007
Not at all, people make mistakes, and people can change.
However, doing something once (or even a few times), and doing something consistently are different things, though I wouldn't say that under normal circumstances communicating with an ex should be considerer cheating, but the fact he's doing it specifically when he's upset with you is a little more unusual, and you do make it sound like he contacts several of them who he wouldn't normally talk to, which again is not good.
So if all that is the case, it sounds like he's acting like that to hurt you which isn't a very healthy thing to be doing and you are probably right to be worried. Not for the communication it's self, but because there is clearly more damaging intent then just keeping in touch.
posted by paulfreeman at 9:42 AM on December 17, 2007
One thing that no one has commented on here is an item you did not mention. Were these ex's friends of his before he became involved with them? From your prior question, it looks like you have serious trust issues. You actively spied on him before using software to hack his password. Now you are concerned about him communicating with exes. Perhaps he does not feel he can trust you enough to talk to you about things.
I have no understanding why people cheat myself. It is stupid and idiotic with ending a relationship being as easy as it is in the modern day. However, I don't see that you have ever caught him ACTUALLY cheating, only communicating with others, maybe meeting with them. That might be a bad thing, but do you think you may have shown him that he can't be open with you?
Also, it would be a lot easier knowing both of your cultural histories. I know that traditional Asian upbringings are very different from western upbringings. Not that it is a bad thing, but it can explain a lot about the points of view.
Do you think you could explain what reasons he gave when you caught him communicating with the exes and how you caught him? Were you checking his cell phone or bill like you checked his email before?
posted by slavlin at 9:50 AM on December 17, 2007
I have no understanding why people cheat myself. It is stupid and idiotic with ending a relationship being as easy as it is in the modern day. However, I don't see that you have ever caught him ACTUALLY cheating, only communicating with others, maybe meeting with them. That might be a bad thing, but do you think you may have shown him that he can't be open with you?
Also, it would be a lot easier knowing both of your cultural histories. I know that traditional Asian upbringings are very different from western upbringings. Not that it is a bad thing, but it can explain a lot about the points of view.
Do you think you could explain what reasons he gave when you caught him communicating with the exes and how you caught him? Were you checking his cell phone or bill like you checked his email before?
posted by slavlin at 9:50 AM on December 17, 2007
Here is a conversation I had a few years back with a Smart Boy Friend (sbf) of mine. I was stuck in a bad relationship, but wasn't fully aware of that fact.
me: Ok, I'm a little angry. I hate him right now.
sbf: I hate him too
me: haha. yeah? why? Tell me why. My reasons don't work well enough.
sbf: Are you smiling?
sbf: (not a trick question)
me: No.
sbf: There's reason #1
me: Oh, that's a good one.
posted by iamkimiam at 10:00 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
me: Ok, I'm a little angry. I hate him right now.
sbf: I hate him too
me: haha. yeah? why? Tell me why. My reasons don't work well enough.
sbf: Are you smiling?
sbf: (not a trick question)
me: No.
sbf: There's reason #1
me: Oh, that's a good one.
posted by iamkimiam at 10:00 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
Love feels good. Does this feel good?
As others have said, cheating is not a permanent situation, however, something is clearly not right with this relationship, for whatever reason, and it sounds like you two are fundamentally incompatible. Break up with him and get yourself some help.
posted by biscotti at 10:00 AM on December 17, 2007
As others have said, cheating is not a permanent situation, however, something is clearly not right with this relationship, for whatever reason, and it sounds like you two are fundamentally incompatible. Break up with him and get yourself some help.
posted by biscotti at 10:00 AM on December 17, 2007
You might get a lot out of reading the book Intimacy and Solitude by Stephanie Dowrick. From this and your previous questions, it sounds as though fundamentally you are frightened by the notion that you and your boyfriend are independent agents who are together as a matter of ongoing free choice. But that's exactly what "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" mean, and you are going to have to accommodate that fact, or drive yourself and your boyfriend crazy with oppressive and unrealistic requirements.
posted by Coventry at 10:11 AM on December 17, 2007
posted by Coventry at 10:11 AM on December 17, 2007
Do him a favor and cut him loose, this "relationship" isnt working for either one of you.
posted by BobbyDigital at 10:15 AM on December 17, 2007
posted by BobbyDigital at 10:15 AM on December 17, 2007
I think you would both be better off without one another.
posted by streetdreams at 10:21 AM on December 17, 2007
posted by streetdreams at 10:21 AM on December 17, 2007
Perhaps more to the point are you actually going to follow any advice given here? Given your history people may be wasting their time in this thread, Askme is acting like you are.
Talking to other people, even exs, is NOT cheating (unless, possibly, it is in a sexual nature). It could, depending on circumstances, fall under trust issues, and given what you have written before there seems to be too many issues to make this a really viable relationship. The relationship IS going to end at some point, this is NOT Mr Right, it is up to you how much more you will continue to invest in it. Perhaps you are equating love with perceived need, because that really doesn't sound like love to me.
posted by edgeways at 10:28 AM on December 17, 2007
Talking to other people, even exs, is NOT cheating (unless, possibly, it is in a sexual nature). It could, depending on circumstances, fall under trust issues, and given what you have written before there seems to be too many issues to make this a really viable relationship. The relationship IS going to end at some point, this is NOT Mr Right, it is up to you how much more you will continue to invest in it. Perhaps you are equating love with perceived need, because that really doesn't sound like love to me.
posted by edgeways at 10:28 AM on December 17, 2007
Once a cheater always a cheater?
I doubt there is a clear cut answer to this question in general. That said, your particular boyfriend sounds like he'll cheat again.
I cant help it.
Bull shit. Unless you like the way he treats you, which i'm guessing you don't, suck it up and find someone else to love.
posted by chunking express at 10:37 AM on December 17, 2007
I doubt there is a clear cut answer to this question in general. That said, your particular boyfriend sounds like he'll cheat again.
I cant help it.
Bull shit. Unless you like the way he treats you, which i'm guessing you don't, suck it up and find someone else to love.
posted by chunking express at 10:37 AM on December 17, 2007
"Once a cheater, always a cheater," probably isn't true. About half the population on the Earth has done it and a large chunk of the rest is in denial about having done it.
But, it sounds like the relationship just isn't working. Love and forgiveness doesn't mean squat in this cases. I've had an overabundance of love and forgiveness for my exes, I just found it impossible to be in a relationship with them that involved more than the occasional chat.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:38 AM on December 17, 2007
But, it sounds like the relationship just isn't working. Love and forgiveness doesn't mean squat in this cases. I've had an overabundance of love and forgiveness for my exes, I just found it impossible to be in a relationship with them that involved more than the occasional chat.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:38 AM on December 17, 2007
Once a cheater always a cheater as a blanket statement for all men? Untrue.
Once a cheater always a cheater in the specific case of your boyfriend under your conditions? True.
posted by spec80 at 10:39 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
Once a cheater always a cheater in the specific case of your boyfriend under your conditions? True.
posted by spec80 at 10:39 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
And seconding what edgeways said. How many questions are you going to ask about your relationship here before you move on?
posted by chunking express at 10:39 AM on December 17, 2007
posted by chunking express at 10:39 AM on December 17, 2007
I've known people like you and people like your ex. And, I hate to say it, those people tend to fight and reconcile and fight again and love/hate each other, and they ask every possible outlet for advice, and the answer is always "this isn't going to work, end it," and even though they seem to really crave the advice, they don't ever follow it, and the cycle just repeats forever and ever amen. I don't know exactly why. Sometimes breaking up just seems too hard of a task, sometimes they're addicted to the drama, sometimes they'd rather be with a partner they don't much like than be alone.
This type of drama is going to keep happening to you until your inevitable breakup. And it is going to keep happening to you with any future guys until you (1) learn to give people a bit more trust and (2) lower your tolerance for trust-breaking BS. If someone cheats on you, whatever your particular definition of cheating is (preferably one both partners have agreed on), give 'em consequences. If you take him back it only demonstrates that he can get away with it.
I hope you break the cycle, and soon. But you have to do it yourself.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:42 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
This type of drama is going to keep happening to you until your inevitable breakup. And it is going to keep happening to you with any future guys until you (1) learn to give people a bit more trust and (2) lower your tolerance for trust-breaking BS. If someone cheats on you, whatever your particular definition of cheating is (preferably one both partners have agreed on), give 'em consequences. If you take him back it only demonstrates that he can get away with it.
I hope you break the cycle, and soon. But you have to do it yourself.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:42 AM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
Talking to ex girlfriends is not cheating (unless there's something more to their conversations than you've mentioned here), but that doesn't mean you have to be okay with it. Stop calling it cheating and tell him you don't want him doing it anymore, anyway. If he agrees to it, then do something about it when he contacts them. Maybe that means leaving him. If he doesn't agree to it, then you have to decide whether or not you feel strongly enough about him contacting them to leave him. If you don't, then get over it. If you do, then leave him. But sitting on the fence about this is the worst position you can put yourself in. It's about what's important to you. Is this relationship worth him contacting ex girlfriends? If not, then you've got your answer. If it is, then you need to handle making this work and compromise some. Bear in mind that sometimes it's not worth it to deal with someone who won't compromise for YOU, but that you also will have to compromise sometimes.
posted by shmegegge at 10:45 AM on December 17, 2007
posted by shmegegge at 10:45 AM on December 17, 2007
You've lost count of how many times he's cheated? I mean, your answer is in your question. Who knows if once a cheater always a cheater in general or for other people? For your bf it's clearly the case. Also, you seem to know that forgiving him repeatedly is bad news. I suggest you think about therapy as a way to explore your motivations so that you eventually have the strength the dump the jerk.
posted by sneakin at 10:46 AM on December 17, 2007
posted by sneakin at 10:46 AM on December 17, 2007
Have you shared your irritation over his ex-texting, only to see his behavior continue unaltered? This indicates that he does not respect you, and does not take your feelings very seriously.
And, God, I wish there was a less harsh way to say this, but repeatedly taking him back after he strays only fosters such behavior.
Please dump this guy before your sense of self-worth is broken down any further. There's a lot of semantic contortions one can go into to 'justify' cheating, but I can translate every single one of them for you.
"My pleasure is more important to me than your feelings, or the illusion of commitment that we maintain. Now I can't even manage to feel badly, or see hurting you as a mistake, because I don't understand how my feeling good could ever be a bad thing."
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:54 AM on December 17, 2007
And, God, I wish there was a less harsh way to say this, but repeatedly taking him back after he strays only fosters such behavior.
Please dump this guy before your sense of self-worth is broken down any further. There's a lot of semantic contortions one can go into to 'justify' cheating, but I can translate every single one of them for you.
"My pleasure is more important to me than your feelings, or the illusion of commitment that we maintain. Now I can't even manage to feel badly, or see hurting you as a mistake, because I don't understand how my feeling good could ever be a bad thing."
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:54 AM on December 17, 2007
Try not to live your life according to sayings or aphorisms, like "once a cheater, always a cheater." Think that true for a minute. Really think about what it means: if someone in unfaithful ONCE, he's fated to always be unfaithful." Do you think that's likely to be true for ALL people? Does it mean it's IMPOSSIBLE for someone to make a mistake, realize he made a mistake, feel bad about it, learn a lesson, and then not repeat the mistake again? Are the only faithful people in the world the one's who have never, ever screwed up in the past? If someone cheats when he's sixteen, is be DEFINITELY still going to be a cheater when he's fifty-seven?
I'm sorry to be so literal, but it really is worth thinking about this stuff literally and clearly. I think we cling to simple saying and beliefs because they make making-decisions easier. Alas, in the real world, some cheaters cheat again; some don't. There are no hard and fast rules. Getting into a relationship with anyone is a risk. Some people who have never cheated will wind up cheating in the future. Some won't.
A more reasonable question: this specific guy you're dating has cheated several times (after saying, each time, that he won't do it any more). Right? Barring some huge change in his thought processes or life, what are the odds that his last time cheating will be his last ever? Seems pretty low to me.
I agree here that, as you've presented things, "talking to people" is a pretty strange definition of cheating. Although he should be honest with you that he's talking to them. Maybe he would like to be, but he's worried that if he tells you, "I talked to my ex today," you'll flip out. He still shouldn't be lying to you, but you shouldn't be pushing him into a situation in which he has to choose between cutting off communication with old friends and being with you. Those are horrible rules. And though it may not be right, most people are going to lie to get around them.
You say you can't help forgiving him; he says he can't help contacting these exes when he's mad at you. There's a lot of "can't help" going on. If you and he are right, that means that if I held guns to your heads, you'd still be unable to alter your behaviors. You'd rather die than not forgive him. He'd rather die than not call his exes. If that's true, get thee to therapy. You both have compulsions that you can't control.
If it's false, that means that -- like most of us -- you CAN help it. You just don't WANT to help it.
posted by grumblebee at 10:55 AM on December 17, 2007
I'm sorry to be so literal, but it really is worth thinking about this stuff literally and clearly. I think we cling to simple saying and beliefs because they make making-decisions easier. Alas, in the real world, some cheaters cheat again; some don't. There are no hard and fast rules. Getting into a relationship with anyone is a risk. Some people who have never cheated will wind up cheating in the future. Some won't.
A more reasonable question: this specific guy you're dating has cheated several times (after saying, each time, that he won't do it any more). Right? Barring some huge change in his thought processes or life, what are the odds that his last time cheating will be his last ever? Seems pretty low to me.
I agree here that, as you've presented things, "talking to people" is a pretty strange definition of cheating. Although he should be honest with you that he's talking to them. Maybe he would like to be, but he's worried that if he tells you, "I talked to my ex today," you'll flip out. He still shouldn't be lying to you, but you shouldn't be pushing him into a situation in which he has to choose between cutting off communication with old friends and being with you. Those are horrible rules. And though it may not be right, most people are going to lie to get around them.
You say you can't help forgiving him; he says he can't help contacting these exes when he's mad at you. There's a lot of "can't help" going on. If you and he are right, that means that if I held guns to your heads, you'd still be unable to alter your behaviors. You'd rather die than not forgive him. He'd rather die than not call his exes. If that's true, get thee to therapy. You both have compulsions that you can't control.
If it's false, that means that -- like most of us -- you CAN help it. You just don't WANT to help it.
posted by grumblebee at 10:55 AM on December 17, 2007
Re: "Once a cheater, always a cheater," I saw something on the news recently that said a recent study suggested that partners with compatible immune systems were less likely to cheat regardless of past history. I can't find a citation online, or only one to the parts of the study that have to do with choosing partners with pheromones that suggest compatible immune systems rather than about long-term compatibility, but since I would have thought that the tendency had to do with personal philosophy more than chemical compatibility with a partner, that stuck in my head.
That said, if talking to an ex is cheating, most people will cheat at some point. I don't think cheating is the issue here--as others have pointed out, there is a bad dynamic in the relationship. You don't trust each other. You hack his emails and he goes behind your back to intentionally do things you don't like. On the other hand, if someone overreacted to me talking to my ex enough to call it "cheating" with no evidence I'd so much as had a cup of coffee with the person, I'd probably do it behind his back, too.
posted by Cricket at 11:04 AM on December 17, 2007
That said, if talking to an ex is cheating, most people will cheat at some point. I don't think cheating is the issue here--as others have pointed out, there is a bad dynamic in the relationship. You don't trust each other. You hack his emails and he goes behind your back to intentionally do things you don't like. On the other hand, if someone overreacted to me talking to my ex enough to call it "cheating" with no evidence I'd so much as had a cup of coffee with the person, I'd probably do it behind his back, too.
posted by Cricket at 11:04 AM on December 17, 2007
do you really love him, or do you just love the relationship? (i've been deeply in love with relationships before, more so than with the man involved, so i'm not passing judgment here, just trying to get to the root of things.)
i ask, because his behavior tells me that he doesn't love you. i would let him go and find someone who really cares about you. or be alone for a while and get reacquainted with your single self.
posted by thinkingwoman at 11:09 AM on December 17, 2007
i ask, because his behavior tells me that he doesn't love you. i would let him go and find someone who really cares about you. or be alone for a while and get reacquainted with your single self.
posted by thinkingwoman at 11:09 AM on December 17, 2007
Go out with other men but don't tell him. See how things look after. If you stay with him after, then the relationship will be stronger and you won't mind his straying as much.
When it comes to relationship advice, it seems most people are stuck in "high school" mode. They always talk about "trust" when they really mean "possessiveness". It is the latter that ruins the relationship every time.
If you are both really deeply in love with each other, then letting go of each other once in a while should not panic you or him.
posted by wfc123 at 11:59 AM on December 17, 2007
When it comes to relationship advice, it seems most people are stuck in "high school" mode. They always talk about "trust" when they really mean "possessiveness". It is the latter that ruins the relationship every time.
If you are both really deeply in love with each other, then letting go of each other once in a while should not panic you or him.
posted by wfc123 at 11:59 AM on December 17, 2007
In my experience, telling a guy to stop talking with his exes is a lost cause. Some people are close to their exes. I still occasionally talk with mine. Tell him you don't care, as long as the exes are just friends. Try to have an open discussion about boundaries and what you consider acceptable. For me, talking with exes is acceptable, but flirting with them is not. Once you say you're OK with certain types of contact, if he is still furtive...then that is probably a bad sign.
posted by idle at 12:03 PM on December 17, 2007
posted by idle at 12:03 PM on December 17, 2007
Best answer: Each of your AskMe questions so far seems to deal with this man and this relationship, including the first quest that was about a "friend" whose boyfriend also had a son from a previous marriage and also spent every night of the week over at her boyfriend's house.
This guy is still attached to his ex-wife, has cheated on you so many times you "don't remember" the number, doesn't follow through with his obligations, such as canceling the extra flight he made from Manila to visit old flames as you discussed, and doesn't fulfill you- you love him, he treats you coldly, you want VASTLY different things from the relationship.
Maybe I'm not entirely getting this and I admit, I'm not a Filipina as you describe yourself, so this might be a cultural issue but my take is:
Leave him immediately. Spend time getting to know yourself and what YOU like to do so that when you enter your next relationship, you won't immediately be inclined to move in with him and take care of his every need, from boxing up his lunch in the morning to dinner in front of the tv and laundry.
posted by arnicae at 12:12 PM on December 17, 2007
This guy is still attached to his ex-wife, has cheated on you so many times you "don't remember" the number, doesn't follow through with his obligations, such as canceling the extra flight he made from Manila to visit old flames as you discussed, and doesn't fulfill you- you love him, he treats you coldly, you want VASTLY different things from the relationship.
Maybe I'm not entirely getting this and I admit, I'm not a Filipina as you describe yourself, so this might be a cultural issue but my take is:
Leave him immediately. Spend time getting to know yourself and what YOU like to do so that when you enter your next relationship, you won't immediately be inclined to move in with him and take care of his every need, from boxing up his lunch in the morning to dinner in front of the tv and laundry.
posted by arnicae at 12:12 PM on December 17, 2007
Best answer: Based on the question, your past questions, and people's responses, it seems like you're really only looking for advice that you want to hear. And I think you want to hear that a cheater is not always a cheater, that he can reform, and that your sketchy boyfriend will give up the behavior that makes you feel so insecure so that you can live happily ever after.
And that's not going to happen.
It hardly matters anymore whether or not he is actually cheating (by any of a dozen definitions of "cheating"). He is doing things that you find upsetting. You are sneaking around to catch him at it. Where is the respect? Where is the love? Where is the joy? This is not a healthy relationship for either of you. Please listen to the excellent advice here, and strike out on your own. It will be hard at first, and you will miss him. But that feeling isn't love . It's dependence, neediness, and the pain of emotional growth. When that feeling passes, you will be stronger, lovelier, and more ready for love.
posted by bassjump at 12:30 PM on December 17, 2007 [2 favorites]
And that's not going to happen.
It hardly matters anymore whether or not he is actually cheating (by any of a dozen definitions of "cheating"). He is doing things that you find upsetting. You are sneaking around to catch him at it. Where is the respect? Where is the love? Where is the joy? This is not a healthy relationship for either of you. Please listen to the excellent advice here, and strike out on your own. It will be hard at first, and you will miss him. But that feeling isn't love . It's dependence, neediness, and the pain of emotional growth. When that feeling passes, you will be stronger, lovelier, and more ready for love.
posted by bassjump at 12:30 PM on December 17, 2007 [2 favorites]
No. Once a cheater, maybe always a cheater, maybe not. But once a cheater, you will always think he is a cheater, and if you're punishing him for uncommitted crimes, he will think he may as well commit them.
(Just answering the question, not touching on the "talking to exes" thing.)
posted by srrh at 1:02 PM on December 17, 2007
(Just answering the question, not touching on the "talking to exes" thing.)
posted by srrh at 1:02 PM on December 17, 2007
Having expectations of some sort of perfect monogamy is like building a giant machine that produces disappointment.
People are human. Stop expecting so damn much. Is 98% of his time and attention really not enough? Does it have to be 100% or nothing? Why do you demand nothing but absolutes?
Wfc said it.
posted by rokusan at 1:03 PM on December 17, 2007
People are human. Stop expecting so damn much. Is 98% of his time and attention really not enough? Does it have to be 100% or nothing? Why do you demand nothing but absolutes?
Wfc said it.
posted by rokusan at 1:03 PM on December 17, 2007
Best answer: Does it even matter if he is cheating, or plans to cheat some more? Fact is, he's doing something deliberate that he knows will get under your skin and debase you. Even if he'd been faithful every day of your relationship, the very idea that he would use a rocky moment between you to play with your psyche is f***ed up. Why would you forgive this? It's emotional abuse, pure and simple. There is no guy on this planet so great that you should feel that you need to tolerate that crap. He's doing it because he perceives himself as having an upper hand in your relationship, and he doesn't respect you because you're taking his nonsense instead of sticking up for yourself and putting him where he belongs. Which is out the damn door, on the curb, with the rest of the garbage.
posted by brain cloud at 1:16 PM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by brain cloud at 1:16 PM on December 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
Please review your history of questions, the answers previously given and assess the likelihood that you'll be here in 2 months asking another variation of this question. I predict that the next time won't be pretty. Please follow the advice above and don't let that happen.
posted by probablysteve at 1:44 PM on December 17, 2007
posted by probablysteve at 1:44 PM on December 17, 2007
Just by looking at your tags, I'd think these words should be nowhere near a healthy relationship. If thinking about your boyfriend makes you think about exes, infidelity, cheating, etc..... you'd really be better off single.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 11:48 PM on December 17, 2007
posted by CrazyLemonade at 11:48 PM on December 17, 2007
If you/he/both doesnt deal with the root of the problem, when he gets pissed off , then your tag line will inevitably be true.
posted by browolf at 10:17 AM on December 25, 2007
posted by browolf at 10:17 AM on December 25, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Maybe not, but twice a cheater or "many times" a cheater definitely is.
posted by Krrrlson at 9:10 AM on December 17, 2007