How do we handle our aggressive, epileptic dog?
October 16, 2007 7:13 PM Subscribe
How do we handle our aggressive, epileptic dog?
We have 2 kids (3 yrs and 6 mos) and a dog (5 yrs). Our dog is part border collie and part pointer. We didn't plan on having kids when we adopted the dog, and since the kids came along life with the dog has become stressful. He's actually very affectionate, but he's a troublemaker (major garbage picker), very protective and can be extremely aggressive. Oh, and did I mention his anxiety? Let's just say that if he ever gets loose when the mailman is around, that mailman is toast and then we'll lose our house after his family sues the hell out of us. Not good. Not to mention if he ever hurts one of the kids (although so far he's been ok with them). We keep him in his crate behind a door when our son's little friends are over.
We've tried training him (he was the star of his class) and we've had him in for behavioral analysis at the University of Pennsylvania animal behavior clinic. Basically the answer has always been: work with him, exercise him, give him lots of challenges, lots of positive reinforcement, keep trouble away from him. He's been on Prozac for two years (somewhat helpful). Problem is, we don't have the resources to take care of this dog. I take care of the kids full time, and my husband works 12 hour days. Time-wise and energy-wise we are maxed-out, and the dog is consistently an afterthought. We feel very badly about this.
To compound matters, the dog now has epilepsy. It started out with a couple seizures over 10 months, but over time the frequency has increased dramatically - he's had two in the last two weeks. Our vet would prefer not to put him on meds yet due to the side effects. So we've given up on finding another home for him ("Good luck," said our vet).
The question is: Now what? The only solution I see is to euthanize him. I don't want the kids to see him have a seizure - it would be too scary for them. I also don't want him devouring any of our neighbors. DH doesn't want to euthanize until we've exhausted every single option open to us...but I'm not sure what our other options are. Help!
We have 2 kids (3 yrs and 6 mos) and a dog (5 yrs). Our dog is part border collie and part pointer. We didn't plan on having kids when we adopted the dog, and since the kids came along life with the dog has become stressful. He's actually very affectionate, but he's a troublemaker (major garbage picker), very protective and can be extremely aggressive. Oh, and did I mention his anxiety? Let's just say that if he ever gets loose when the mailman is around, that mailman is toast and then we'll lose our house after his family sues the hell out of us. Not good. Not to mention if he ever hurts one of the kids (although so far he's been ok with them). We keep him in his crate behind a door when our son's little friends are over.
We've tried training him (he was the star of his class) and we've had him in for behavioral analysis at the University of Pennsylvania animal behavior clinic. Basically the answer has always been: work with him, exercise him, give him lots of challenges, lots of positive reinforcement, keep trouble away from him. He's been on Prozac for two years (somewhat helpful). Problem is, we don't have the resources to take care of this dog. I take care of the kids full time, and my husband works 12 hour days. Time-wise and energy-wise we are maxed-out, and the dog is consistently an afterthought. We feel very badly about this.
To compound matters, the dog now has epilepsy. It started out with a couple seizures over 10 months, but over time the frequency has increased dramatically - he's had two in the last two weeks. Our vet would prefer not to put him on meds yet due to the side effects. So we've given up on finding another home for him ("Good luck," said our vet).
The question is: Now what? The only solution I see is to euthanize him. I don't want the kids to see him have a seizure - it would be too scary for them. I also don't want him devouring any of our neighbors. DH doesn't want to euthanize until we've exhausted every single option open to us...but I'm not sure what our other options are. Help!
One of my three dogs is like this. I've tried everything you've tried, with the exception of the Prozac, and, now, at age 12, I'm pretty convinced that's just the way he's going to be. I keep a close eye on him, limit his interaction with people and other dogs when necessary, and I trust that my homeowners insurance would cover it should he eat the mailman.
I love him and all, but if I had kids, and I didn't trust him around them, I'd probably send him off to that big farm in the sky. Then I'd probably adopt another, calmer one from the humane society. Or make a big donation.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 7:48 PM on October 16, 2007
I love him and all, but if I had kids, and I didn't trust him around them, I'd probably send him off to that big farm in the sky. Then I'd probably adopt another, calmer one from the humane society. Or make a big donation.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 7:48 PM on October 16, 2007
Please reconsider euthanizing and contact an organization like Pets with Disabilities to see what your options are placing him elsewhere.
posted by pieoverdone at 7:53 PM on October 16, 2007
posted by pieoverdone at 7:53 PM on October 16, 2007
This is very sad, but it does not sound like this dog is safe for your family now.
You could surrender him to a reputable shelter, telling them everything you have said here. Good shelters will perform thorough behavioral evaluations. Probably they will reach the same conclusions as you. Certainly they will not adopt such a dog out to a family with small children. But there is the possibility, however small, that a qualified owner will fall in love with the dog and be able to save him.
Most likely he will be euthanized, though -- not for his seizure condition, but because the aggression may make placement impossible.
posted by nev at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
You could surrender him to a reputable shelter, telling them everything you have said here. Good shelters will perform thorough behavioral evaluations. Probably they will reach the same conclusions as you. Certainly they will not adopt such a dog out to a family with small children. But there is the possibility, however small, that a qualified owner will fall in love with the dog and be able to save him.
Most likely he will be euthanized, though -- not for his seizure condition, but because the aggression may make placement impossible.
posted by nev at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
M.C. Lo-Carb!, do consider Prozac. Sometimes works wonders for dogs, and can be obtained more cheaply for them.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2007
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2007
Our dog is part border collie and part pointer.
I don't doubt that collies (and their mixes) can make great pets, but everyone I've come across has been completely, jump all over you, bark like crazy, snap at your fingers, batshitinsane.
So, my anecdotal feeling is that this poor dog already has a mark or two against it, not to mention its other behavioral problems.
Crazy dogs and children don't mix. Young kids require especially mellow dogs... otherwise you've got an accident waiting to happen.
Explore your options with drugs (for the dog) or whatever, but until your kids are older I doubt you'll ever be 100% confident that the dog won't go off on them... take precautions!
posted by wfrgms at 8:11 PM on October 16, 2007
I don't doubt that collies (and their mixes) can make great pets, but everyone I've come across has been completely, jump all over you, bark like crazy, snap at your fingers, batshitinsane.
So, my anecdotal feeling is that this poor dog already has a mark or two against it, not to mention its other behavioral problems.
Crazy dogs and children don't mix. Young kids require especially mellow dogs... otherwise you've got an accident waiting to happen.
Explore your options with drugs (for the dog) or whatever, but until your kids are older I doubt you'll ever be 100% confident that the dog won't go off on them... take precautions!
posted by wfrgms at 8:11 PM on October 16, 2007
Have you done an *in-home* evaluation with a trainer yet? See, a dog's behaviour is going to be different in the home than it is in a clinic for evaluation. Or video the dog's behaviour and take the video to the trainer. Have you done clicker training? We're doing that with my dog right now, a Rhodesian Ridgeback, and we're finally getting to the point where the click overrides her prey drive.
I wouldn't give up on the dog just yet, but I might consider limiting it's access to the kids and the mailman, up to and including having a leash on him all the time in the house.
It's more than possible to deprogram an aggressive dog with all kinds of other problems, but it is work.
If you can't do the work, then look into a pets with disabilities program to foster your dog out.
posted by SpecialK at 8:14 PM on October 16, 2007
I wouldn't give up on the dog just yet, but I might consider limiting it's access to the kids and the mailman, up to and including having a leash on him all the time in the house.
It's more than possible to deprogram an aggressive dog with all kinds of other problems, but it is work.
If you can't do the work, then look into a pets with disabilities program to foster your dog out.
posted by SpecialK at 8:14 PM on October 16, 2007
Best Friends shelter in Utah would take him. They have the resources and knowledge to take care of him. They have done cross-country relays to get animals to their facility. Just a suggestion. www.bestfriends.org
posted by bolognius maximus at 8:16 PM on October 16, 2007
posted by bolognius maximus at 8:16 PM on October 16, 2007
I don't doubt that collies (and their mixes) can make great pets, but everyone I've come across has been completely, jump all over you, bark like crazy, snap at your fingers, batshitinsane.
My trainer owns a collie that is so well trained that it will heel off leash with anyone and is the calmest thing you've ever seen in your life. Collies make great dogs for kids, even if they can be hyper.
Crazy dogs and children don't mix. Young kids require especially mellow dogs... otherwise you've got an accident waiting to happen.
No, kids require a well trained, tolerant dog. My dog, a 18 month old ridgeback with a prey instinct that has no peer is *great* with kids, even alone... I trust her explicitly, even with my neighbor's little blonde monster of a 3 year old daughter. She was conditioned from birth to be tolerant to people tugging on ears and tails, to vocalize pain instead of biting, and to sit patiently while being petted. The only thing I haven't managed to train her out of yet is the desire to chase bicycles and bark at joggers and dogs she can't get to, which is why we're doing redirection training with a clicker.
There's all kinds of mistakes that people make training and socializing dogs. Don't blame the dog, blame the owner.
posted by SpecialK at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2007
My trainer owns a collie that is so well trained that it will heel off leash with anyone and is the calmest thing you've ever seen in your life. Collies make great dogs for kids, even if they can be hyper.
Crazy dogs and children don't mix. Young kids require especially mellow dogs... otherwise you've got an accident waiting to happen.
No, kids require a well trained, tolerant dog. My dog, a 18 month old ridgeback with a prey instinct that has no peer is *great* with kids, even alone... I trust her explicitly, even with my neighbor's little blonde monster of a 3 year old daughter. She was conditioned from birth to be tolerant to people tugging on ears and tails, to vocalize pain instead of biting, and to sit patiently while being petted. The only thing I haven't managed to train her out of yet is the desire to chase bicycles and bark at joggers and dogs she can't get to, which is why we're doing redirection training with a clicker.
There's all kinds of mistakes that people make training and socializing dogs. Don't blame the dog, blame the owner.
posted by SpecialK at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2007
Jesus. OK, maybe the dog won't work out for your family, but you don't have to kill it just because you don't get along with it. Take it to an animal shelter/humane society, or find some soft-hearted person to adopt it. I'm sure there are ways to get it out of your house without euthanizing.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 8:28 PM on October 16, 2007
posted by croutonsupafreak at 8:28 PM on October 16, 2007
Response by poster: SpecialK, you are absolutely right - I feel that we have failed our dog, and I feel horrible about it. Our dog was a rescue and I suspect he was not right from the time that we adopted him - at the time we chalked it up to puppy behavior. Obviously we were wrong and we didn't work hard enough at getting things right with him. Having the kids only increased his anxiety, protectiveness and aggressiveness, and our time to work with him decreased significantly. So here we are.
posted by missuswayne at 8:32 PM on October 16, 2007
posted by missuswayne at 8:32 PM on October 16, 2007
Call your local border collie rescue and your local pointer rescue. Tell them everything and ask for their help.
posted by acorncup at 8:47 PM on October 16, 2007
posted by acorncup at 8:47 PM on October 16, 2007
Um...did your vet not discuss with you the possible causes for the seizures? Epilepsy rarely manifests after the age of 2 as far as I know, seizures which start after that age usually have another cause (everything from electrolyte imbalances through brain tumors, many of which can also cause serious behavioural problems including aggression, you see where I'm going with this). The side effects from the usual seizure meds (phenobarbital) are quite manageable, and not medicating a dog who has seizures because of "side effects" is ridiculous, if this is indeed what your vet's reasoning is, seek a second opinion from a vet more current on seizure cause and management for that aspect of your question.
That said, you clearly do not seem able to manage this dog at this time, so I suggest you have him humanely euthanized. He is not a candidate for rehoming and it is likely not safe to have a dog like this in a home with young children.
posted by biscotti at 3:45 AM on October 17, 2007
That said, you clearly do not seem able to manage this dog at this time, so I suggest you have him humanely euthanized. He is not a candidate for rehoming and it is likely not safe to have a dog like this in a home with young children.
posted by biscotti at 3:45 AM on October 17, 2007
Just to reiterate what croutonsupafreak said above:
"Jesus. OK, maybe the dog won't work out for your family, but you don't have to kill it just because you don't get along with it. Take it to an animal shelter/humane society, or find some soft-hearted person to adopt it. I'm sure there are ways to get it out of your house without euthanizing."
Seriously now, you've admitted that it's the end of the line for the dog in your home, but that doesn't mean killing them, right?
posted by triv at 7:10 AM on October 17, 2007
"Jesus. OK, maybe the dog won't work out for your family, but you don't have to kill it just because you don't get along with it. Take it to an animal shelter/humane society, or find some soft-hearted person to adopt it. I'm sure there are ways to get it out of your house without euthanizing."
Seriously now, you've admitted that it's the end of the line for the dog in your home, but that doesn't mean killing them, right?
posted by triv at 7:10 AM on October 17, 2007
Aggressive dogs are rarely appropriate candidates for responsible rehoming, rescues are already busy enough with animals who do not have issues which might make them unsafe to live with humans. And I'm sorry, but humane euthanasia is far from the worst fate for an animal. Sometimes this is the only right thing to do, it may or may not be so in this case, but it's certainly preferable to humanely euthanise an aggressive dog than rehome it in many cases.
posted by biscotti at 9:48 AM on October 17, 2007
posted by biscotti at 9:48 AM on October 17, 2007
Jesus. OK, maybe the dog won't work out for your family, but you don't have to kill it just because you don't get along with it. Take it to an animal shelter/humane society, or find some soft-hearted person to adopt it. I'm sure there are ways to get it out of your house without euthanizing.
This is not helpful. If the OP were set on euthanasia, she wouldn't be asking the question. But the reality is, her local shelters may not take the dog (or may take the dog but have to euthanize it), and she and her vet think it's highly unlikely that the dog can be re-homed.
Hassling the OP about the terrible situation she's in doesn't make the problem go away, it just makes her feel bad.
posted by leahwrenn at 11:26 AM on October 17, 2007
This is not helpful. If the OP were set on euthanasia, she wouldn't be asking the question. But the reality is, her local shelters may not take the dog (or may take the dog but have to euthanize it), and she and her vet think it's highly unlikely that the dog can be re-homed.
Hassling the OP about the terrible situation she's in doesn't make the problem go away, it just makes her feel bad.
posted by leahwrenn at 11:26 AM on October 17, 2007
Your dog's behavior sounds just like almost every Border Collie I have ever met. They are territorial, they hate strangers, and they will constantly test boundaries. I've always thought they were a good dog breed for rural areas, but non where else unless ruthlessly trained from birth.
You didn't fail your dog. You tried your best but its deep, pushy Border Collie genes have taken hold. Take heart that there are many BC lovers and with luck you will find a home for your dog.
posted by Alison at 8:39 PM on October 17, 2007
You didn't fail your dog. You tried your best but its deep, pushy Border Collie genes have taken hold. Take heart that there are many BC lovers and with luck you will find a home for your dog.
posted by Alison at 8:39 PM on October 17, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks for the many great suggestions and supportive comments. I have touched base with our vet and she will start him on potassium bromide if the seizures continue to occur this close together - ie, if he has another seizure in the next couple weeks she will start the medication immediately.
I have contacted some rescues and have heard back from one (Best Friends) - the response was not encouraging in terms of finding a new home for him. They have no room, and indicated that most rescues will not accept aggressive dogs. She actually said she would favor euthanasia in this instance.
We haven't decided what to do yet.
posted by missuswayne at 7:09 AM on October 18, 2007
I have contacted some rescues and have heard back from one (Best Friends) - the response was not encouraging in terms of finding a new home for him. They have no room, and indicated that most rescues will not accept aggressive dogs. She actually said she would favor euthanasia in this instance.
We haven't decided what to do yet.
posted by missuswayne at 7:09 AM on October 18, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
It sounds like you have exhausted every single option. I would put the dog down.
posted by JujuB at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2007