The Lonely Kicker(s)
October 1, 2007 5:02 PM Subscribe
American Football Filter: Why do pro and college teams almost always carry both a punter and a separate place/field-goal kicker?
I like to think I know a fair about about football, but why (at least at the higher levels) are punters and place/field goal kick guys considered to have different "skill sets," so to speak, since they both use their big ol' legs to whack the pigskin with prejudice?
I like to think I know a fair about about football, but why (at least at the higher levels) are punters and place/field goal kick guys considered to have different "skill sets," so to speak, since they both use their big ol' legs to whack the pigskin with prejudice?
Yeah, drjimmy11 has it. Is it really that difficult to see that punting & place-kicking are radically different skills? It's not that people can't do both - you'll occasionally see a punter become the emergency field-goal kicker after an injury. When you do see that, you also see why the punter *isn't* the field-goal kicker.
I'm no expert on football history, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a time when "kicker" was a single role. But in today's game, when place-kickers are often called on to attempt (and often make) 50+ yard field goals, *and* the field goal has become essential to winning games (with parity between teams at an all-time high), you need to have both. (This comes from a Pats fan, who has seen his team win three Super Bowls and numerous playoff games thanks in part to the steady foot of Adam Vinatieri.)
One final note: when it comes to backup roles, you do often find guys who can do multiple things, and kickers are no exception. The Patriot's punter in the early/mid '90s was Tom Tupa, who had punted and quarterbacked in college. He started his NFL career as a quarterback, but eventually became a full-time punter. However, his QB experience allowed teams to use him as the third-string and/or "emergency" quarterback, as well as executing a higher-than-normal number of fake punts because of his QB experience.
posted by Banky_Edwards at 5:34 PM on October 1, 2007
I'm no expert on football history, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a time when "kicker" was a single role. But in today's game, when place-kickers are often called on to attempt (and often make) 50+ yard field goals, *and* the field goal has become essential to winning games (with parity between teams at an all-time high), you need to have both. (This comes from a Pats fan, who has seen his team win three Super Bowls and numerous playoff games thanks in part to the steady foot of Adam Vinatieri.)
One final note: when it comes to backup roles, you do often find guys who can do multiple things, and kickers are no exception. The Patriot's punter in the early/mid '90s was Tom Tupa, who had punted and quarterbacked in college. He started his NFL career as a quarterback, but eventually became a full-time punter. However, his QB experience allowed teams to use him as the third-string and/or "emergency" quarterback, as well as executing a higher-than-normal number of fake punts because of his QB experience.
posted by Banky_Edwards at 5:34 PM on October 1, 2007
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a time when "kicker" was a single role
i think there was a time when the QB was also the kicker and the punter. He probably played defense, too.
Historically most sports, and especially the NFL, have trended towards specialization and away from one guy doing everything just because he's the best overall athlete.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:39 PM on October 1, 2007
i think there was a time when the QB was also the kicker and the punter. He probably played defense, too.
Historically most sports, and especially the NFL, have trended towards specialization and away from one guy doing everything just because he's the best overall athlete.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:39 PM on October 1, 2007
for example: Babe Ruth was at one point both a starting pitcher and the best hitter in baseball. Look at how well most pitchers hit now.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:40 PM on October 1, 2007
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:40 PM on October 1, 2007
i think there was a time when the QB was also the kicker and the punter. He probably played defense, too.
To wit, Doug Flutie's score from a drop kick last season.
posted by proj at 6:01 PM on October 1, 2007
To wit, Doug Flutie's score from a drop kick last season.
posted by proj at 6:01 PM on October 1, 2007
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a time when "kicker" was a single role.
There was a time when there was only one team, which played both offense and defense.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 6:09 PM on October 1, 2007
There was a time when there was only one team, which played both offense and defense.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 6:09 PM on October 1, 2007
Hell, there was probably a time when it was just two guys who liked tackling each other.
hmm, that didn't come out right.
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:15 PM on October 1, 2007
hmm, that didn't come out right.
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:15 PM on October 1, 2007
When my dad was a high-school QB in the 1940s, he was praised in the newspaper for his "savage blocking at quarterback." Imagine a QB getting praised for THAT skill set today.
posted by GaelFC at 6:54 PM on October 1, 2007
posted by GaelFC at 6:54 PM on October 1, 2007
drjimmy11 is spot-on about the specialization aspect.
Danny White was a Pro Bowl quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys in the 80s, and was also the team's punter.
Given the amount of money thrown at NFL QBs these days, no team in its right mind would risk having their QB making punts.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:32 PM on October 1, 2007
Danny White was a Pro Bowl quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys in the 80s, and was also the team's punter.
Given the amount of money thrown at NFL QBs these days, no team in its right mind would risk having their QB making punts.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:32 PM on October 1, 2007
Best answer: There are some kickers who are also good field goal kickers, but it tends to screw with your body if you do both. Kicking field goals lengthens the achilles tendon, while punting shortens it. Doing both gives you a gimpy tendon.
Yes, I am being serious.
posted by Autarky at 8:29 PM on October 1, 2007
Yes, I am being serious.
posted by Autarky at 8:29 PM on October 1, 2007
Wanna know how specialized sports are? Relays, like the 4x100 are specialized - Sprinters who run turns, train to run turns. When you exchange them for the runners that run the straightaways, guess what happens? They're slower.
If running is so specific (as running a turn vs. running a straightway), it gives you insight on how specialized most sports can be.
posted by filmgeek at 9:14 PM on October 1, 2007
If running is so specific (as running a turn vs. running a straightway), it gives you insight on how specialized most sports can be.
posted by filmgeek at 9:14 PM on October 1, 2007
filmgeek is right - at the top level (i.e. the edge case), sports will end up with as many specialised athletes as the rules and money allow there to be.
If you propose a game with unlimited substitutions and team members then clearly the constraining factor is money - how many different specialists can you pay. If there are rule limits on substitutions then you need to employ more multi-skilled athletes.
Look at the difference between a rugby team and and an American football team, especially with regard to kicking. American football has many players invloved in one game, whereas rugby allows a max of seven substitutions. The outcome is far greater specialisation in American football.
posted by patricio at 2:44 AM on October 2, 2007
If you propose a game with unlimited substitutions and team members then clearly the constraining factor is money - how many different specialists can you pay. If there are rule limits on substitutions then you need to employ more multi-skilled athletes.
Look at the difference between a rugby team and and an American football team, especially with regard to kicking. American football has many players invloved in one game, whereas rugby allows a max of seven substitutions. The outcome is far greater specialisation in American football.
posted by patricio at 2:44 AM on October 2, 2007
Yeah, there is some differentiation between place-kicking and punting, but there is another good reason for carrying two kickers on the roster: If the place kicker is injured, the punter assumes his duties. Considering that when either guy is out there, the entire opposing team is out to block the kick, an injured kicker is not uncommon.
Some teams even carry three kickers: One for punting, one for field goal and extra point kicking, and one for kickoffs (and sometimes the kickoff specialist also attempts the longest of the field goals). The guy who can really boom the ball might not be that accurate, but if he can kick for distance he might be preferred over the regular kicker for field goals approaching 60 yards. The regular field goal kicker may be very accurate from, say, 45 yards and closer, but just doesn't have the leg for really long kicks.
posted by Doohickie at 7:17 AM on October 2, 2007
Some teams even carry three kickers: One for punting, one for field goal and extra point kicking, and one for kickoffs (and sometimes the kickoff specialist also attempts the longest of the field goals). The guy who can really boom the ball might not be that accurate, but if he can kick for distance he might be preferred over the regular kicker for field goals approaching 60 yards. The regular field goal kicker may be very accurate from, say, 45 yards and closer, but just doesn't have the leg for really long kicks.
posted by Doohickie at 7:17 AM on October 2, 2007
In the NFL, the Atlanta Falcons tried having Michael Koenen do all kicking and punting for the beginning of last season, but ended up with 2 kickers again pretty soon.
Frank Corral did all three jobs for the Los Angeles Rams in 1981 according to this article
posted by yeahyeahyeahwhoo at 12:36 PM on October 2, 2007
Frank Corral did all three jobs for the Los Angeles Rams in 1981 according to this article
posted by yeahyeahyeahwhoo at 12:36 PM on October 2, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Punters have to be able to kick for distance and hangtime, and catch the long snap.
Field goal kickers need to able to kick field goals accurately and under pressure. The two skill sets don't necessarily overlap, and both are hugely important to the team. The punter also has to risk getting hit or blocked on every punt- a risk the team might not want to take with a prized placekicker.
Some teams take it even further, if they have a field goal kicker who is accurate but whose leg isn't that strong: they carry an additional placekicker just for kickoffs and maybe very long field goals.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:20 PM on October 1, 2007