I've given my friend all the benefits. Now I feel poor. How do I fix this?
August 20, 2007 6:58 PM Subscribe
It started out as dating and turned into "friends with benefits." How do I regain my self-respect after all of this? Apologize in advance...
I began seeing "Rick" just before Christmas last year, after he answered a personal ad I had posted online. After the first date, I thought, "Eh..I like him..funny, not really attracted to him." I suggested we hang out initially as friends and he agreed. That very quickly turned to attraction and the whole "let's hang out as friends" thing went by the wayside.
In the beginning, things were nice. We went out to eat, drinks, movies, had a wonderful time talking.
After a month, I noticed that we were still seeing each other only once a week with maybe one or two phone calls during the week. Although I liked him a lot, I got up enough backbone to say to him, "I'd like more and if you don't, let's stop seeing one another.
He said that he felt that things were going well but that one month was not much time and perhaps we should just keep dating until we were both sure about things. I agreed and we kept seeing one another, now with sex involved.
This kept up for a few more months until I again became frustrated with the lack of escalation in the relationship. He finally admitted that the previous year, he had been engaged and that his fiancee had broken off the engagement and the relationship, leaving him, well, broken. He offered only that the relationship had been long-distance and that was the reason, mostly, for its demise.
He claimed that he was enjoying spending time with me but couldn't offer much more than what he was...a weekly date, dinner, phone call here and there.
Again, I was understanding. I didn't feel disrespected or anything but I did feel very frustrated. We continued to go back and forth with me demanding more and him never relenting and me...relenting and most times, I just dropped the subject.
He would work all the time, seven days a week...taking on additional jobs if he could. It seemed to me that he was simply trying to avoid healing. That was, at least, my take.
This summer, he left for an extended trip overseas. Two months in a very remote part of the world. I got one email from him during that time.
He's recently returned and we saw one another but it's clear, it will be more of the same. After this summer, I vowed to get this man out of my life. I dated someone else (which turned out horribly) and quite frankly, my self-esteem is pretty much in the toilet now.
Honestly, I can't even say for sure that I want to be in a long-term relationship with him because he hasn't shown me enough of himself for me to make that determination, even after all these months. But I would like to at least explore it.
When we saw one another yesterday, there was no talk at all about where this is going, if anywhere.
If this were another woman telling me this story, I'd say, "move on, kid' but I can't seem to do that! While he was gone, I said, "that's it. I'm done." Yet, I couldn't do it. Despite all the "He's just not that into you" signs, some obviously demented part of me says "but I do think he feels something other than lust for you." We talk for hours when together, share music, plans (just not with one another), etc.
Now, I'm feeling really horrible. I have struggled all my life with esteem issues but even at my lowest, I know that I am a smart, funny and damn sexy woman.
So my questions:
How do I get out of this? Should I send him an email and just say, "Sorry. Can't do this anymore?"
How do I go about rebuilding my self-esteem after months of this?
I began seeing "Rick" just before Christmas last year, after he answered a personal ad I had posted online. After the first date, I thought, "Eh..I like him..funny, not really attracted to him." I suggested we hang out initially as friends and he agreed. That very quickly turned to attraction and the whole "let's hang out as friends" thing went by the wayside.
In the beginning, things were nice. We went out to eat, drinks, movies, had a wonderful time talking.
After a month, I noticed that we were still seeing each other only once a week with maybe one or two phone calls during the week. Although I liked him a lot, I got up enough backbone to say to him, "I'd like more and if you don't, let's stop seeing one another.
He said that he felt that things were going well but that one month was not much time and perhaps we should just keep dating until we were both sure about things. I agreed and we kept seeing one another, now with sex involved.
This kept up for a few more months until I again became frustrated with the lack of escalation in the relationship. He finally admitted that the previous year, he had been engaged and that his fiancee had broken off the engagement and the relationship, leaving him, well, broken. He offered only that the relationship had been long-distance and that was the reason, mostly, for its demise.
He claimed that he was enjoying spending time with me but couldn't offer much more than what he was...a weekly date, dinner, phone call here and there.
Again, I was understanding. I didn't feel disrespected or anything but I did feel very frustrated. We continued to go back and forth with me demanding more and him never relenting and me...relenting and most times, I just dropped the subject.
He would work all the time, seven days a week...taking on additional jobs if he could. It seemed to me that he was simply trying to avoid healing. That was, at least, my take.
This summer, he left for an extended trip overseas. Two months in a very remote part of the world. I got one email from him during that time.
He's recently returned and we saw one another but it's clear, it will be more of the same. After this summer, I vowed to get this man out of my life. I dated someone else (which turned out horribly) and quite frankly, my self-esteem is pretty much in the toilet now.
Honestly, I can't even say for sure that I want to be in a long-term relationship with him because he hasn't shown me enough of himself for me to make that determination, even after all these months. But I would like to at least explore it.
When we saw one another yesterday, there was no talk at all about where this is going, if anywhere.
If this were another woman telling me this story, I'd say, "move on, kid' but I can't seem to do that! While he was gone, I said, "that's it. I'm done." Yet, I couldn't do it. Despite all the "He's just not that into you" signs, some obviously demented part of me says "but I do think he feels something other than lust for you." We talk for hours when together, share music, plans (just not with one another), etc.
Now, I'm feeling really horrible. I have struggled all my life with esteem issues but even at my lowest, I know that I am a smart, funny and damn sexy woman.
So my questions:
How do I get out of this? Should I send him an email and just say, "Sorry. Can't do this anymore?"
How do I go about rebuilding my self-esteem after months of this?
Despite all the "He's just not that into you" signs, some obviously demented part of me says "but I do think he feels something other than lust for you."
You clearly already recognise the problem; you just need to be convinced that you're correct in your beliefs. You are!! Find somebody else to date who will appreciate your intelligence, wit and sexiness - tell Carl that you're not what he's looking for and that he is not what you need. It'll be difficult at first, but you'll soon be much happier, with luck.
posted by fish tick at 7:08 PM on August 20, 2007
You clearly already recognise the problem; you just need to be convinced that you're correct in your beliefs. You are!! Find somebody else to date who will appreciate your intelligence, wit and sexiness - tell Carl that you're not what he's looking for and that he is not what you need. It'll be difficult at first, but you'll soon be much happier, with luck.
posted by fish tick at 7:08 PM on August 20, 2007
Good gravy, anonymous, you are where I was with my first boyfriend. And believe me, I hung on to that SOB far longer than he deserved.
My personal advice? Write him a letter you will never send him, burn it in a little ceremony of your own concoction, or do whatever will bring you some closure, then move on. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Certainly do not bother contacting him again.
You deserve way more than a mediocre, lukewarm "meh" of a relationship with someone who doesn't seem to be terribly fussed.
posted by LN at 7:08 PM on August 20, 2007
My personal advice? Write him a letter you will never send him, burn it in a little ceremony of your own concoction, or do whatever will bring you some closure, then move on. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Certainly do not bother contacting him again.
You deserve way more than a mediocre, lukewarm "meh" of a relationship with someone who doesn't seem to be terribly fussed.
posted by LN at 7:08 PM on August 20, 2007
I think you'll gain a lot of self-respect by dumping Rick. Being strong, officially ending things, and then sticking to that decision will make you feel better. Learn from this experience. See it as a way to find what you want and don't want in your next relationship. Once you see it as a learning experience and not a reason to beat yourself up, you might feel better.
Good luck.
posted by christinetheslp at 7:21 PM on August 20, 2007
Good luck.
posted by christinetheslp at 7:21 PM on August 20, 2007
oh, i hate it when that happens. try not to beat yourself up too much about it. you like him, but you want different things. at some point, you'll have to let it go.
as with bandaids and other sticky things, quick removal is the best bet.
it seems like you are more interested in the relationship than with him. when things really are secure, you might wonder where it's going, but you don't demand answers. so it can't last. let him go before you knock yourself down any further. there's a man out there who will adore you, but he's not in this guy's bed.
also, being the one to break it off is empowering--you will teach yourself that you -can- demand what you want. besides, think of how bad you'll feel if he eventually gets fed up with your needing more and dumps you. because that's the only other way this will end, and that will not feel better.
good luck, sweetie. he's not ready for you.
posted by thinkingwoman at 7:25 PM on August 20, 2007
as with bandaids and other sticky things, quick removal is the best bet.
it seems like you are more interested in the relationship than with him. when things really are secure, you might wonder where it's going, but you don't demand answers. so it can't last. let him go before you knock yourself down any further. there's a man out there who will adore you, but he's not in this guy's bed.
also, being the one to break it off is empowering--you will teach yourself that you -can- demand what you want. besides, think of how bad you'll feel if he eventually gets fed up with your needing more and dumps you. because that's the only other way this will end, and that will not feel better.
good luck, sweetie. he's not ready for you.
posted by thinkingwoman at 7:25 PM on August 20, 2007
Definitely end things with Rick. He's not ready for any sort of relationship and a relationship seems to be what you want. End it, don't think about it, and move on.
posted by Attackpanda at 7:27 PM on August 20, 2007
posted by Attackpanda at 7:27 PM on August 20, 2007
You seem know the answer already, so if you want reassurance, here it is:
DTMFA
posted by chrisamiller at 7:27 PM on August 20, 2007
DTMFA
posted by chrisamiller at 7:27 PM on August 20, 2007
Elizabeth Wurtzel has said that the only way to get one man off your mind is to get another on your body. You need to get "out there" (whatever that means for you- online dating, parties with friends, bars, WoW, church, classes, speed dating)- once you begin to socialize with interesting, confident people who like you for you, you'll be ready to ditch this fool in a heartbeat.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:28 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:28 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
I so identify with this. My "but-what-if-maybe-he-sorta-does-love-me-kinda?" relationship lasted for - get this - three years with brief hiatuses here and there.
I, too, was the woman after the true love of his life left him "broken" and grief-stricken. I, too, was good enough for a while until either she would come back into the picture, or he was just bored with me for a stretch of time. He would never commit to more than a couple of days a week (or per month, depending on his mood), a phone call every now and again, and we never went out with mutual friends or introduced the other to members of our family, etc.
To put it bluntly, you're the rebound woman. He likes you well enough - and, yes, he may care more for you than just that - but he's not going to take it any further than he has so far because he's not ready or willing to do so. It's sad, but true, I'm afraid. More so to the point, you don't like how all of this is making you feel and that is what you need to act on.
It took me putting myself in humiliating situation after humiliating situation to finally get the message that it did not matter at all how he felt about me; he wasn't going to get more deeply involved with me because, on a fundamental level, he did not respect me or my feelings. He couldn't bring himself to because I was "rebound girl" - something about that role predisposed him to taking what he wanted from me and offering little or nothing of emotional substance in return. It's the nature of that particular beast, I'm afraid. It's some sort of revenge program we start running the minute someone we've allowed ourselves to be vulnerable to breaks our heart.
Do yourself a favor - stop answering his calls. Just do that one thing for now. If you feel the need to call him, call a friend instead. Hell, call your mother, your father, your sister or brother, a clergyman, a co-worker, something. Just do NOT call him. This will be agony at first; trust me, after several days, it will begin to lessen in intensity. Do not answer e-mails or e-mail him. Cut it off completely. I know this sounds harsh - trust me, in the end, it doesn't do you any good to do the typical "nice" thing - opening the subject up for discussion only affords him the opportunity to talk you into doing something that is great for him and terrible for you. You, yourself, said he hasn't shown you enough to know whether or not he's the long-term love for you - that alone, in my opinion, absolves you of any obligation to do more than quietly and with as much dignity as you can muster simply back away from this dead-end relationship.
If you can't bring yourself to cut him off completely, you must, for the preservation of your own self-esteem, stop sleeping with him immediately. You can tell yourself it's just sex, it's just particularly good sex, even, it doesn't mean anything, I like it, and so forth, and it will still leave you feeling like garbage in the morning. Trust me; I spent many a Sunday morning in a cab back to my apartment, my forehead resting against the backseat window, wondering just what in the hell I was continually subjecting myself to. It's not worth it.
Finally, I suggest you find a counselor. Even short-term counseling to deal with this one specific relationship will empower you more than you can imagine. You need all the help repairing your self-esteem you can get.
It will get better, I promise. Be proactive, brave and take care of yourself. I wish you the very best of luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 7:30 PM on August 20, 2007 [11 favorites]
I, too, was the woman after the true love of his life left him "broken" and grief-stricken. I, too, was good enough for a while until either she would come back into the picture, or he was just bored with me for a stretch of time. He would never commit to more than a couple of days a week (or per month, depending on his mood), a phone call every now and again, and we never went out with mutual friends or introduced the other to members of our family, etc.
To put it bluntly, you're the rebound woman. He likes you well enough - and, yes, he may care more for you than just that - but he's not going to take it any further than he has so far because he's not ready or willing to do so. It's sad, but true, I'm afraid. More so to the point, you don't like how all of this is making you feel and that is what you need to act on.
It took me putting myself in humiliating situation after humiliating situation to finally get the message that it did not matter at all how he felt about me; he wasn't going to get more deeply involved with me because, on a fundamental level, he did not respect me or my feelings. He couldn't bring himself to because I was "rebound girl" - something about that role predisposed him to taking what he wanted from me and offering little or nothing of emotional substance in return. It's the nature of that particular beast, I'm afraid. It's some sort of revenge program we start running the minute someone we've allowed ourselves to be vulnerable to breaks our heart.
Do yourself a favor - stop answering his calls. Just do that one thing for now. If you feel the need to call him, call a friend instead. Hell, call your mother, your father, your sister or brother, a clergyman, a co-worker, something. Just do NOT call him. This will be agony at first; trust me, after several days, it will begin to lessen in intensity. Do not answer e-mails or e-mail him. Cut it off completely. I know this sounds harsh - trust me, in the end, it doesn't do you any good to do the typical "nice" thing - opening the subject up for discussion only affords him the opportunity to talk you into doing something that is great for him and terrible for you. You, yourself, said he hasn't shown you enough to know whether or not he's the long-term love for you - that alone, in my opinion, absolves you of any obligation to do more than quietly and with as much dignity as you can muster simply back away from this dead-end relationship.
If you can't bring yourself to cut him off completely, you must, for the preservation of your own self-esteem, stop sleeping with him immediately. You can tell yourself it's just sex, it's just particularly good sex, even, it doesn't mean anything, I like it, and so forth, and it will still leave you feeling like garbage in the morning. Trust me; I spent many a Sunday morning in a cab back to my apartment, my forehead resting against the backseat window, wondering just what in the hell I was continually subjecting myself to. It's not worth it.
Finally, I suggest you find a counselor. Even short-term counseling to deal with this one specific relationship will empower you more than you can imagine. You need all the help repairing your self-esteem you can get.
It will get better, I promise. Be proactive, brave and take care of yourself. I wish you the very best of luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 7:30 PM on August 20, 2007 [11 favorites]
I don't know if it's necessary for you to get rid of this guy right now. You could, er, just continue enjoying the sex and companionship while looking for a real boyfriend. I don't know if I recommend that, but it's one option. I'd say don't do it unless you can just see him once a week and forget about him the rest of the time while you concentrate on other things.
posted by orange swan at 7:45 PM on August 20, 2007
posted by orange swan at 7:45 PM on August 20, 2007
"Hey Rick, you're stringin' me along because you like the sex, and that's not what I want, so it's over."
klangklangston has it with the first comment.
*Sigh* I'm so sorry that you're muddled up with this guy... but honestly, I've been this guy. A lot of other guys have too (and girls.)
You have to stand up for yourself. You have to assert yourself. If hes any sort of decent human being he'll grow up and realize that he has been taking advantage of you.
You don't say how old you or he is, but chalk this up as a growing experience.
posted by wfrgms at 7:51 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
klangklangston has it with the first comment.
*Sigh* I'm so sorry that you're muddled up with this guy... but honestly, I've been this guy. A lot of other guys have too (and girls.)
You have to stand up for yourself. You have to assert yourself. If hes any sort of decent human being he'll grow up and realize that he has been taking advantage of you.
You don't say how old you or he is, but chalk this up as a growing experience.
posted by wfrgms at 7:51 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
I feel you. I really do. I went through something sort of similar this past winter. It ended because I found out he had a girlfriend the entire time. Yet it took me 3 more months to stop longing for him. And you know what did it? Meeting someone else and falling for them. Now, this other guy isn't interested in me, but he is a wonderful person, and we both want to be friends. But it just took that time and space to see the beauty in someone else to see the ugliness in the last one. And now it's for sure -- I'm sorry I wasted so much time on someone who didn't value me the way I deserve, but these things don't change overnight. Be gentle with yourself, and every day draw yourself away from him, and keep your eyes open for the other surprises life may bring your way.
Best wishes to you.
posted by loiseau at 7:53 PM on August 20, 2007
Best wishes to you.
posted by loiseau at 7:53 PM on August 20, 2007
Oh -- and how do you salvage your self-respect? You don't. Self-respect doesn't happen to you, and you don't have to earn it. You have to claim it. No matter what, respect yourself. Respect yourself for having your heart open to the possibilities with this guy, and for being honest with him about what you needed. Respect yourself for being a decent person and caring for him. Self-respect is yours if you decide it is.
posted by loiseau at 7:56 PM on August 20, 2007 [18 favorites]
posted by loiseau at 7:56 PM on August 20, 2007 [18 favorites]
The "how" doesn't matter at all. The "when" matters. How much more of your time and sanity are you willing to sacrifice?
posted by desjardins at 8:13 PM on August 20, 2007
posted by desjardins at 8:13 PM on August 20, 2007
I agree with the other poster who thinks you should opt to become the dumpOR before you become the dumpEE. "Self esteem" is really a misnomer. If you are continuously rating and/or ranking yourself and others in global negative terms you might look into Rational Emotive Therapy. Also, don't sleep with men for recreational purposes if you aren't suited to that. Maybe you are one of those people who honestly prefers committment to go along with sex. You know, monogomy? It's not a crime to want that and to shoot for it.
posted by naplesyellow at 8:16 PM on August 20, 2007
posted by naplesyellow at 8:16 PM on August 20, 2007
All the advice above, about getting separation, seems pretty smart.
As to "getting your self-respect back," I hope you won't beat yourself up. There are slang terms, songs, books, epic poems, genres about the situation you're in. Because it's something that a lot of people go through!
You've done some (not at all terrible) things that you now regret. Well, welcome to humanity! I hope that you are able to regard yourself with some measure of the caring, non-judgmental-ness, and empathy that all these folks on this thread are giving you here. That doesn't always happen here, you know.
posted by ibmcginty at 8:19 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
As to "getting your self-respect back," I hope you won't beat yourself up. There are slang terms, songs, books, epic poems, genres about the situation you're in. Because it's something that a lot of people go through!
You've done some (not at all terrible) things that you now regret. Well, welcome to humanity! I hope that you are able to regard yourself with some measure of the caring, non-judgmental-ness, and empathy that all these folks on this thread are giving you here. That doesn't always happen here, you know.
posted by ibmcginty at 8:19 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
I would like to say that you're perfectly valid and justified in wanting the relationship that you want: one with a higher level of commitment and intimacy. It seems like Rick doesn't want that with you; he wants something else.
Don't take it personally. Wanting a real relationship shouldn't be something that you view as an injury to your self esteem. It's OK to want that. (It's OK for Rick not to want it, too. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!)
You gave it an honest try, and now you want to move on. Be strong enough and gentle enough with yourself to go out and get what you want, without fear. It's out there for you, that much is certain.
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:48 PM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
Don't take it personally. Wanting a real relationship shouldn't be something that you view as an injury to your self esteem. It's OK to want that. (It's OK for Rick not to want it, too. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!)
You gave it an honest try, and now you want to move on. Be strong enough and gentle enough with yourself to go out and get what you want, without fear. It's out there for you, that much is certain.
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:48 PM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
I think the other thing you have to realize is that one of the reasons you may be longing for more is because he is so unavailable and I think it's only natural for people to think that if I can't have it it must be better than something else I can have. You even said how initially you didn't feel that much for him. I bet you anything if you dumped him, didn't talk to him for six months and went on a couple dates just for fun with other people you would look back and think what the hell was I thinking.
This guy is ruining your self esteem to boost his, I'm sure it feels great to have this great woman longing for more with him, while he does whatever he wants, but you don't deserve this and his treatment of you is no indication of your worth or what kind of relationship you can have with someone else. DTMFA.
posted by whoaali at 9:01 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
This guy is ruining your self esteem to boost his, I'm sure it feels great to have this great woman longing for more with him, while he does whatever he wants, but you don't deserve this and his treatment of you is no indication of your worth or what kind of relationship you can have with someone else. DTMFA.
posted by whoaali at 9:01 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
Just start dating. Don't deal with Rick. If you really can't cut him off, and maybe this is because you think he's worth keeping as a friend, then fine, don't cut him off, but you must date.
If he calls you in the future, your feelings about him will be tempered with the attention you're getting from new, exciting guys who, in all likelihood, belong on the dating scene more than he does and can work with you on your level. So, you'll be getting great exposure, hopefully learning better how to turn guys down when you're not that into them, which is maybe not your forte as a self-esteem case, and Rick will seem that much less appealing, because he won't be the only game in town and Steve's a better kisser anyway.
Also, if you can't rip the bandaid off, set some ground rules to preserve that self-esteem. "No more unreciprocated blowjobs, he has to go first" or something. I was empowered to bail on a guy when sticking to that kind of ground rule made the parameters of our relationship far too clear. I kinda like having some guy, any gut, all the time, and understand how dumping them is so hard. So, just go date another one, then, right?
I had this kind of thing once, only worse actually, ugh. Because I had pined for him for FOUR years. And yes, we're still friends. We work well as friends, even if I sort of relish seeing his unending and no longer endearing schmuckitude and with clear eyes and leave every meeting with a hug and a great big sigh, thinking "Whew. Dodged a bullet, there."
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 9:32 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
If he calls you in the future, your feelings about him will be tempered with the attention you're getting from new, exciting guys who, in all likelihood, belong on the dating scene more than he does and can work with you on your level. So, you'll be getting great exposure, hopefully learning better how to turn guys down when you're not that into them, which is maybe not your forte as a self-esteem case, and Rick will seem that much less appealing, because he won't be the only game in town and Steve's a better kisser anyway.
Also, if you can't rip the bandaid off, set some ground rules to preserve that self-esteem. "No more unreciprocated blowjobs, he has to go first" or something. I was empowered to bail on a guy when sticking to that kind of ground rule made the parameters of our relationship far too clear. I kinda like having some guy, any gut, all the time, and understand how dumping them is so hard. So, just go date another one, then, right?
I had this kind of thing once, only worse actually, ugh. Because I had pined for him for FOUR years. And yes, we're still friends. We work well as friends, even if I sort of relish seeing his unending and no longer endearing schmuckitude and with clear eyes and leave every meeting with a hug and a great big sigh, thinking "Whew. Dodged a bullet, there."
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 9:32 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
In these circumstances, I've often found it helpful to move. Say about 1000 miles? That way, you don't need to use will power to stay away. Geography does it for you. On the downside, people will tell you running away never solved anything.
posted by b33j at 9:53 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by b33j at 9:53 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
Good advice already, just thought I'd add this, intended only in the most honest, supportive spirit: it seems from what you've written that you're valuing Rick's judgment too much. The only reason this short relationship (and less than a year is short) is affecting your self-esteem is because you're looking to Rick, crediting his judgment, to create or validate feelings of self-worth.
That will never happen, even if he fell madly in love with you--you are seeking external validation for that which cannot be validated by anyone other than you. I'm sure you already know all of this, intellectually, but I thought it might help to hear someone else say it: it's called self-esteem because it's about how you feel about yourself.
You're looking to Rick for some sort of affirmation of your worth via romantic acceptance and commitment. That's absurd, when examined: even if he gave it, you'd still feel the same way about yourself. I submit that it's likely irrelevant here what Rick thinks about you; what you are struggling with is how you feel about you and you are just projecting that onto this relationship. So my sense, going only on what you've posted here of course, is that your focus should likely be on learning to accept and love yourself; until you learn that, no relationship will be satisfactory because you're looking for an external solution to an internal difficulty.
Also, FWIW, if Rick's not that into you, I suspect it most likely has a lot more to do with him than with you. Rick (though I don't know him) is probably like 99.999% of other people: he thinks about himself most of the time. How can he (or you, or me) not?? After all, we're stuck inside of our heads for all of our lives. I find it helps to keep this very very common human tendency in mind when assigning value and weight to the judgments of others.
I say, call it what it is, a short relationship that was good and bad, learn from it, and move on. Perhaps consider some effort devoted to discovering your own awesomeness for yourself.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:39 PM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
That will never happen, even if he fell madly in love with you--you are seeking external validation for that which cannot be validated by anyone other than you. I'm sure you already know all of this, intellectually, but I thought it might help to hear someone else say it: it's called self-esteem because it's about how you feel about yourself.
You're looking to Rick for some sort of affirmation of your worth via romantic acceptance and commitment. That's absurd, when examined: even if he gave it, you'd still feel the same way about yourself. I submit that it's likely irrelevant here what Rick thinks about you; what you are struggling with is how you feel about you and you are just projecting that onto this relationship. So my sense, going only on what you've posted here of course, is that your focus should likely be on learning to accept and love yourself; until you learn that, no relationship will be satisfactory because you're looking for an external solution to an internal difficulty.
Also, FWIW, if Rick's not that into you, I suspect it most likely has a lot more to do with him than with you. Rick (though I don't know him) is probably like 99.999% of other people: he thinks about himself most of the time. How can he (or you, or me) not?? After all, we're stuck inside of our heads for all of our lives. I find it helps to keep this very very common human tendency in mind when assigning value and weight to the judgments of others.
I say, call it what it is, a short relationship that was good and bad, learn from it, and move on. Perhaps consider some effort devoted to discovering your own awesomeness for yourself.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:39 PM on August 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
It sounds like you're actually not that into Rick, either. (You both get along, but it's not going anywhere because it's really not there for either of you -- not just him.) Does it help to remember that? That when you move on you're moving on to find someone you're more into, someone you can have a Relationship with -- you're not moving on (simply) because "he's not that into you."
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 10:46 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 10:46 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
Don't try to hang out with this guy at first. It'll hurt too much and be too hard. And remember, if you want a serious relationship, any time spent on someone who WILL NOT ever (no matter what your wishful thinking) commit to you is time wasted. And time is important.
You could be spending your time looking for someone who values you enough to want to keep you around. This is what you want, this is the goal.
To get your self esteem back: break up with the guy, and tell him you're not interested in being friends right now. Go find other things to do. Hang out with your friends, date a few more people. Reread TrytheTilapia and ThePinkSuperhero's advice.
Trust me, I've been there. I wasted six years, cumulatively, on two assholes who wouldn't commit. And I regret it, deeply.
posted by digitalis at 11:13 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
You could be spending your time looking for someone who values you enough to want to keep you around. This is what you want, this is the goal.
To get your self esteem back: break up with the guy, and tell him you're not interested in being friends right now. Go find other things to do. Hang out with your friends, date a few more people. Reread TrytheTilapia and ThePinkSuperhero's advice.
Trust me, I've been there. I wasted six years, cumulatively, on two assholes who wouldn't commit. And I regret it, deeply.
posted by digitalis at 11:13 PM on August 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
I feel for you.
I think it helps to recognize that you fell for Rick for a reason, and its not shared musical tastes. When one person is unavailable, and you pick them, you should think about what is so appealing. I would submit his unavailability makes you not have to worry about feeling overwhelmed in the relationship and there is no real intimacy. He's so busy running and you are so busy chasing him, you don't have to worry that this relationship will demand anything of you.
Further, once you got on the chasing bicycling you discovered its addictive. Every little bit of affection, so hard won, lifts your spirits, and every indication of his fundamental disinterest brings the deepest low.
You need to get off this bicycle!
You can start by realizing that the only way you would ever have a real relationship is if you stop this dynamic. Stop calling, stop emailng, tell him you are looking for a committed relationship and he's not it. Once you begin to get off the "he called me" adrenaline highs, you'll feel better.
If necessary, leave the house, without your cellphone in order not to call him (it helps to go do something fun).
posted by zia at 12:27 AM on August 21, 2007
I think it helps to recognize that you fell for Rick for a reason, and its not shared musical tastes. When one person is unavailable, and you pick them, you should think about what is so appealing. I would submit his unavailability makes you not have to worry about feeling overwhelmed in the relationship and there is no real intimacy. He's so busy running and you are so busy chasing him, you don't have to worry that this relationship will demand anything of you.
Further, once you got on the chasing bicycling you discovered its addictive. Every little bit of affection, so hard won, lifts your spirits, and every indication of his fundamental disinterest brings the deepest low.
You need to get off this bicycle!
You can start by realizing that the only way you would ever have a real relationship is if you stop this dynamic. Stop calling, stop emailng, tell him you are looking for a committed relationship and he's not it. Once you begin to get off the "he called me" adrenaline highs, you'll feel better.
If necessary, leave the house, without your cellphone in order not to call him (it helps to go do something fun).
posted by zia at 12:27 AM on August 21, 2007
I'm in favor of just letting it go. Don't explain, just stop calling, stop calling back. Injecting more emotion into this or sparking a conversation about it with him will only lead to more heartache.
Be the leaver, not the left.
Enlist some friends to perk you up, gather up some $ and buy yourself a new haircut, dress, whatever. Go to the bookshop and get a few novels to engross yourself in. Up your Netflix subscription so that your evenings alone won't feel so empty. When you're ready, join something, meet new folks and try again.
Stop obsessing on your self-esteem, start focusing on your future. If need be, go get involved in some volunteer work -- few things will help put your problems into perspective than helping others with theirs. Along those lines, borrow a friend's dog for a very long walk once a week. Start plotting and envisioning where you'd like to end up once this settles.
posted by cior at 12:31 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Be the leaver, not the left.
Enlist some friends to perk you up, gather up some $ and buy yourself a new haircut, dress, whatever. Go to the bookshop and get a few novels to engross yourself in. Up your Netflix subscription so that your evenings alone won't feel so empty. When you're ready, join something, meet new folks and try again.
Stop obsessing on your self-esteem, start focusing on your future. If need be, go get involved in some volunteer work -- few things will help put your problems into perspective than helping others with theirs. Along those lines, borrow a friend's dog for a very long walk once a week. Start plotting and envisioning where you'd like to end up once this settles.
posted by cior at 12:31 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
I've been in relationships that started out as weekly dinner/movie dates, and moved on to more, without a clear demarcation that they were doing so, simply because I and the woman involved didn't want to seem "weird" or asexual to one another, once several weeks had passed, and we seemed to be enjoying one another's company. Now, I'm wary, in the extreme, of such situations, simply because so few of those apparently unencumbered situations remain so, in my experience. I tend to agree with Desmond Morris that human beings are primed to form pair bonds, and do so, against all common sense in many situations. Perhaps this has benefited our race, but this propensity has surely kept our divorce courts in business, and the hearts of many individuals in turmoil, for far too long.
You "fell" for Rick, but it's not clear from your remarks that he ever "fell" for you. Indeed, he may have gone along with the move towards a sexual relationship, as a means of retaining your availability for companionship, more than because he thinks you are a great sexual partner, hard as that may be for you to accept. As many men eventually wind up participating in sex because it's "expected," as do women, and it's quite possible that this is Rick's internal view of the situation.
But regardless of how you got where you've gotten, this relationship isn't what you're really looking for. If it has at least clarified for you what you are looking for, then the relationship, and Rick, have helped you on your personal journey, and neither you nor Rick have anything to be ashamed about.
Quit demanding more of him than he is willing to give, "kiss him off" (literally and fondly, with good wishes and good memories), and move on in your search for a partner who wants the same degree of engagement and commitment that you now believe, because of this experience, that you desire.
And don't spend one more millisecond feeling "bad" about any of this.
posted by paulsc at 12:50 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
You "fell" for Rick, but it's not clear from your remarks that he ever "fell" for you. Indeed, he may have gone along with the move towards a sexual relationship, as a means of retaining your availability for companionship, more than because he thinks you are a great sexual partner, hard as that may be for you to accept. As many men eventually wind up participating in sex because it's "expected," as do women, and it's quite possible that this is Rick's internal view of the situation.
But regardless of how you got where you've gotten, this relationship isn't what you're really looking for. If it has at least clarified for you what you are looking for, then the relationship, and Rick, have helped you on your personal journey, and neither you nor Rick have anything to be ashamed about.
Quit demanding more of him than he is willing to give, "kiss him off" (literally and fondly, with good wishes and good memories), and move on in your search for a partner who wants the same degree of engagement and commitment that you now believe, because of this experience, that you desire.
And don't spend one more millisecond feeling "bad" about any of this.
posted by paulsc at 12:50 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
This guy is ruining your self esteem to boost his
99% of the advice on this thread is wonderful and obviously correct. Just one plea - ignore the people (there are always a few of them in DTMFAFilter threads) who insist on trying to make you demonize Rick. Not for his sake, really, but just because it'll make you so much happier in the long run not to carry around the resentful belief that he mistreated you. There's no evidence in your post that he wanted anything bad, just different: wanting a deep relationship is fine, wanting a great casual sexual partner is fine. You're both fine, on the evidence provided - just not meant for each other at this point in history. Don't try and build your self-esteem by diminishing him. In the long run it won't work.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 1:18 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
99% of the advice on this thread is wonderful and obviously correct. Just one plea - ignore the people (there are always a few of them in DTMFAFilter threads) who insist on trying to make you demonize Rick. Not for his sake, really, but just because it'll make you so much happier in the long run not to carry around the resentful belief that he mistreated you. There's no evidence in your post that he wanted anything bad, just different: wanting a deep relationship is fine, wanting a great casual sexual partner is fine. You're both fine, on the evidence provided - just not meant for each other at this point in history. Don't try and build your self-esteem by diminishing him. In the long run it won't work.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 1:18 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
It should not affect your self-respect that Rick is happy with the relationship as it is, and you are not. Of course he feels something other than lust for you, but that doesn't mean he wants the same kind of relationship as you. That he doesn't want the same thing is not any indictment of you (or of him) - people are often just different that way. You are taking it as personal when it isn't personal, it just is. Sure, the relationship is personal, and you made sacrifices in trying several times to make it work for you instead of walking away to find someone else, so that side is personal, but what he wants and needs out of the relationship is no reflection on your qualities or merits, and vice versa. You making that connection where there is none is causing you unnecessary pointless grief.
So, yeah, you have to move on, but at least recognise that your self-respect is not at stake here. It never was. You weren't used. You just tried hard to make something work that in hindsight, it can now be established that it was never going to work.
Some combinations don't work, can't work. Just not compatible. It doesn't mean one person was used, or lowered themselves, it just means it was a bad combination and the only way to find that out was the hard way.
posted by -harlequin- at 1:42 AM on August 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
So, yeah, you have to move on, but at least recognise that your self-respect is not at stake here. It never was. You weren't used. You just tried hard to make something work that in hindsight, it can now be established that it was never going to work.
Some combinations don't work, can't work. Just not compatible. It doesn't mean one person was used, or lowered themselves, it just means it was a bad combination and the only way to find that out was the hard way.
posted by -harlequin- at 1:42 AM on August 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
Oh man, I'm so sorry you're going through this. You're getting a lot of great advice/encouragement here.
I agree with others that rather than feel bad about yourself/the situation, you should see it for what it is: a learning experience.
I know how hard it is to just walk away, but I urge you to do exactly that. It's painful to admit, but I have been in this situation, too...three times. What zia said about being in a cycle is so true. Don't do that to yourself! Please don't.
I have finally learned that if someone wants to be with me, I'll know it. I won't have to ask. I won't have to wonder what the relationship "is." I haven't been in a relationship like that yet (probably because I have been going through that "chase cycle" over and over...), but I know now that a relationship isn't supposed to hurt, or be frustrating, or all of those other far-from-enjoyable things you're feeling right now.
Do you know that Maxwell song, "Ascension (Don't Ever Wonder)"? Go read the lyrics. "So shouldn't I realize / You're the highest of the high / If you don't know, then I'll say it / So don't ever wonder..." I imagine the kind of relationship you and I are both yearning for will feel like that. We won't have to wonder if it's the real thing. The guy will show us that it is, and we'll be amazed that there was a time in our lives that we ever thought we might settle for less.
No, relationships aren't easy, and they aren't always smooth sailing, but I think that you're supposed to feel good when you're with someone you love, and who loves you. It's clear that you don't feel this way with this slick Rick dude. Do whatever - whatever! - you have to to go about your life without contacting this guy. He's using you. Do not let yourself be used. You're not getting anything positive out of this situation (I know you're telling yourself you are, but you're not. You've already learned the lesson - there's nothing more that's going to benefit you here).
When you feel like you just HAVE to call/text/email him, it might help to think about how you'll feel if he comes over, you give him some "benefits," and then he leaves/tells you he can't give you anything more/doesn't cuddle with you afterward and tell you how beautiful you are. Works for me, anyway. I've found that replaying that I-feel-like-garbage feeling in my head definitely helps quell the urge to make that phone call.
Also, be honest with yourself - you aren't someone for whom the no-strings-attached stuff will ever, ever work. That's not good or bad, it's just the kind of person you are. Don't pretend that you can carry that off when deep down, you know you can't.
Only recently have I realized that being single is sooo much better than being in a "relationship" with a guy who's not invested in it nearly as much as I am. It's easy for people like us to imagine a relationship with a guy who probably doesn't even think about us much at all. Don't fool yourself into seeing things that aren't there.
Get yourself out of the cycle. Be strong. Put yourself first (you know, like Mr. Jerk is doing). Take care of yourself.
posted by splendid animal at 1:49 AM on August 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
I agree with others that rather than feel bad about yourself/the situation, you should see it for what it is: a learning experience.
I know how hard it is to just walk away, but I urge you to do exactly that. It's painful to admit, but I have been in this situation, too...three times. What zia said about being in a cycle is so true. Don't do that to yourself! Please don't.
I have finally learned that if someone wants to be with me, I'll know it. I won't have to ask. I won't have to wonder what the relationship "is." I haven't been in a relationship like that yet (probably because I have been going through that "chase cycle" over and over...), but I know now that a relationship isn't supposed to hurt, or be frustrating, or all of those other far-from-enjoyable things you're feeling right now.
Do you know that Maxwell song, "Ascension (Don't Ever Wonder)"? Go read the lyrics. "So shouldn't I realize / You're the highest of the high / If you don't know, then I'll say it / So don't ever wonder..." I imagine the kind of relationship you and I are both yearning for will feel like that. We won't have to wonder if it's the real thing. The guy will show us that it is, and we'll be amazed that there was a time in our lives that we ever thought we might settle for less.
No, relationships aren't easy, and they aren't always smooth sailing, but I think that you're supposed to feel good when you're with someone you love, and who loves you. It's clear that you don't feel this way with this slick Rick dude. Do whatever - whatever! - you have to to go about your life without contacting this guy. He's using you. Do not let yourself be used. You're not getting anything positive out of this situation (I know you're telling yourself you are, but you're not. You've already learned the lesson - there's nothing more that's going to benefit you here).
When you feel like you just HAVE to call/text/email him, it might help to think about how you'll feel if he comes over, you give him some "benefits," and then he leaves/tells you he can't give you anything more/doesn't cuddle with you afterward and tell you how beautiful you are. Works for me, anyway. I've found that replaying that I-feel-like-garbage feeling in my head definitely helps quell the urge to make that phone call.
Also, be honest with yourself - you aren't someone for whom the no-strings-attached stuff will ever, ever work. That's not good or bad, it's just the kind of person you are. Don't pretend that you can carry that off when deep down, you know you can't.
Only recently have I realized that being single is sooo much better than being in a "relationship" with a guy who's not invested in it nearly as much as I am. It's easy for people like us to imagine a relationship with a guy who probably doesn't even think about us much at all. Don't fool yourself into seeing things that aren't there.
Get yourself out of the cycle. Be strong. Put yourself first (you know, like Mr. Jerk is doing). Take care of yourself.
posted by splendid animal at 1:49 AM on August 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
Best thing to do is take the advice of just ending the relationship with no contact. Then change your phone # and never contact him again. If he does try contacting you, unless it is in person, face to face, ignore him. This is your best chance at not being a booty call forever. After some time passes, he'll grow up or move on.
posted by thomcatspike at 2:52 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by thomcatspike at 2:52 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
...I know that I am a smart, funny and damn sexy woman.
So my questions:
How do I get out of this? Should I send him an email and just say, "Sorry. Can't do this anymore?"
Yes, yes you should. Make a clean break. Even if you guys wind up being friends eventually, you need to draw a line in the sand for yourself and for him. But you obviously already know this, you just need to pull the trigger.
How do I go about rebuilding my self-esteem after months of this?
This one's not so easy. Date new guys, start some new hobbies, lean on your friends a little. When I was in this same situation (except that the perfect love of his life came back and then he dumped me), I started blogging again, which I'd dropped a few months earlier (not because of him, I'd just dropped it). It made me feel connected to stuff again, more like my old self. I made new friends, I went to a bunch of rock shows. I kind of felt like a huge burden was lifted once I got over the searing pain of rejection (for that I recommend ice cream and the "Lost in Translation" soundtrack). We also agreed not to talk for like a month (he wanted to save our friendship), having that deadline made it easy to cut ties and just deal with me. Neither of us were bad people, we just made some poor decisions in the face of loneliness, and we're still friends.
The key is to really believe that you are a smart, funny and damn sexy woman. And don't feel bad for feeling what you feel; you're sad, you're hurt, even if it wasn't the best relationship, you've been invested in it for months now. You basically feel bad about your feelings about this guy, for wanting more than he did. That doesn't make you bad, it means he missed out on the awesomeness of you.
This is ridiculously long, but the point is, I've been there, and everything got way, way easier once I stopped trying to force something that wasn't working. Good luck!
posted by SoftRain at 4:04 AM on August 21, 2007
So my questions:
How do I get out of this? Should I send him an email and just say, "Sorry. Can't do this anymore?"
Yes, yes you should. Make a clean break. Even if you guys wind up being friends eventually, you need to draw a line in the sand for yourself and for him. But you obviously already know this, you just need to pull the trigger.
How do I go about rebuilding my self-esteem after months of this?
This one's not so easy. Date new guys, start some new hobbies, lean on your friends a little. When I was in this same situation (except that the perfect love of his life came back and then he dumped me), I started blogging again, which I'd dropped a few months earlier (not because of him, I'd just dropped it). It made me feel connected to stuff again, more like my old self. I made new friends, I went to a bunch of rock shows. I kind of felt like a huge burden was lifted once I got over the searing pain of rejection (for that I recommend ice cream and the "Lost in Translation" soundtrack). We also agreed not to talk for like a month (he wanted to save our friendship), having that deadline made it easy to cut ties and just deal with me. Neither of us were bad people, we just made some poor decisions in the face of loneliness, and we're still friends.
The key is to really believe that you are a smart, funny and damn sexy woman. And don't feel bad for feeling what you feel; you're sad, you're hurt, even if it wasn't the best relationship, you've been invested in it for months now. You basically feel bad about your feelings about this guy, for wanting more than he did. That doesn't make you bad, it means he missed out on the awesomeness of you.
This is ridiculously long, but the point is, I've been there, and everything got way, way easier once I stopped trying to force something that wasn't working. Good luck!
posted by SoftRain at 4:04 AM on August 21, 2007
Others have picked up on this, but avoid demonizing Rick. He's been pretty up-front with you:
He claimed that he was enjoying spending time with me but couldn't offer much more than what he was...a weekly date, dinner, phone call here and there.
None of this is about you; he's not ready for anything remotely approaching a serious relationship, and he's told you so repeatedly. You need to listen to him.
Let him go, and follow the excellent healing advice elsewhere in the thread.
posted by canine epigram at 6:00 AM on August 21, 2007
He claimed that he was enjoying spending time with me but couldn't offer much more than what he was...a weekly date, dinner, phone call here and there.
None of this is about you; he's not ready for anything remotely approaching a serious relationship, and he's told you so repeatedly. You need to listen to him.
Let him go, and follow the excellent healing advice elsewhere in the thread.
posted by canine epigram at 6:00 AM on August 21, 2007
I may be totally mistaken here, but it seems that neither you nor he needs to do a whole lot of 'dumping'. Don't answer his one-phone-call-a-week and he's effectively not your 'boyfriend' anymore.
What's more important, and what many other posters have touched on more eloquently and effusively that I am about to, is that your situation seems to be more about reclaiming your self-respect that dealing with this guy's questionable interest in you.
You might be shocked and relieved to discover how much of your emotional state is tied up in your body (and how much you can relieve by working the kinks out, physically). This physical activity can take any form you like; yoga, running, judo, whatever; just move around and sweat out your anger. Sure, this kind of thing can also equal a dating pool if you tie it in to an activity club or something, but if you start off solo and give yourself a chance to process things mentally as you go you may get much more out of it. If you keep at an activity for any length of time, little by little you will see yourself getting better at it. That can be a massive ego boost, too.
Perhaps the most important thing to remember here, though, is that you saw this whole thing developing. You told this guy you wanted more, and essentially told him he needed to care more for you than he did. That kind of thing can never happen, and you know this. If a mutual interest doesn't grow organically between two people, one of them cannot cause it to occur in the other one. When you see this situation crop up again (or its reciprocal), get out then and don't allow it to progress to a situation in which you are inevitably going to be hurt. You are, in fact, worth much, much more than that, and should never have to entreat someone to care more for you than they do. You are in charge of that situation, and need to own it. And next time you will.
Good luck with this, and go easy on yourself. We all make mistakes, and this one will be easier to recover from that it might seem to you rght now.
posted by Pecinpah at 6:45 AM on August 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
What's more important, and what many other posters have touched on more eloquently and effusively that I am about to, is that your situation seems to be more about reclaiming your self-respect that dealing with this guy's questionable interest in you.
You might be shocked and relieved to discover how much of your emotional state is tied up in your body (and how much you can relieve by working the kinks out, physically). This physical activity can take any form you like; yoga, running, judo, whatever; just move around and sweat out your anger. Sure, this kind of thing can also equal a dating pool if you tie it in to an activity club or something, but if you start off solo and give yourself a chance to process things mentally as you go you may get much more out of it. If you keep at an activity for any length of time, little by little you will see yourself getting better at it. That can be a massive ego boost, too.
Perhaps the most important thing to remember here, though, is that you saw this whole thing developing. You told this guy you wanted more, and essentially told him he needed to care more for you than he did. That kind of thing can never happen, and you know this. If a mutual interest doesn't grow organically between two people, one of them cannot cause it to occur in the other one. When you see this situation crop up again (or its reciprocal), get out then and don't allow it to progress to a situation in which you are inevitably going to be hurt. You are, in fact, worth much, much more than that, and should never have to entreat someone to care more for you than they do. You are in charge of that situation, and need to own it. And next time you will.
Good luck with this, and go easy on yourself. We all make mistakes, and this one will be easier to recover from that it might seem to you rght now.
posted by Pecinpah at 6:45 AM on August 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
You need to make a clean break. Rick doesn't sound like a bad guy, and deserves the courtesy of being told "it's over." Just tell him you want something from your relationship that he can't offer.
There was a time shortly after my first marriage had ended, and another friend was also recently divorced. We had been doing things socially a fair amount, and discussed the FWB option openly. She said something like "I don't want to do that because we'll get stalled out halfway up our Maslow's pyramids of needs" (that is, we'd satisfy the need for sex but not romance or love). She was right and we both laughed about it. You're coming to the same realization after the fact, and so there are tears instead of laughter. Same realization though.
Every relationship that doesn't work helps us figure out what will work in a relationship. Figure out what you need to from this and move on. Finding someone better suited to you is the best way to get over Rick.
posted by adamrice at 6:51 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
There was a time shortly after my first marriage had ended, and another friend was also recently divorced. We had been doing things socially a fair amount, and discussed the FWB option openly. She said something like "I don't want to do that because we'll get stalled out halfway up our Maslow's pyramids of needs" (that is, we'd satisfy the need for sex but not romance or love). She was right and we both laughed about it. You're coming to the same realization after the fact, and so there are tears instead of laughter. Same realization though.
Every relationship that doesn't work helps us figure out what will work in a relationship. Figure out what you need to from this and move on. Finding someone better suited to you is the best way to get over Rick.
posted by adamrice at 6:51 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
I dont see why people are jumping all over you to just cut this guy out of your life without letting him know what he did. From what you said it seems like he has been completely honest with you from the get-go and he hasnt been stringing you along with false hopes. That being said you ought to try and find someone who wants the same thing you do and "Rick" is probably never going to be that guy. What you need to do is sit him down and tell him why you cannot be with him anymore, directly and honestly then thank him for the good time and wish him the best and move on. The whole cutting him off with no notice and no explanation is passive aggressive cowardly bullshit and will come back to you as karma later on.
Just remember, you have a compelling reason not to see him anymore, and he has done nothing to not deserve a face to face explanation. It is tougher for you that way, but you will feel better about it later.
Good Luck.
posted by BobbyDigital at 7:49 AM on August 21, 2007
Just remember, you have a compelling reason not to see him anymore, and he has done nothing to not deserve a face to face explanation. It is tougher for you that way, but you will feel better about it later.
Good Luck.
posted by BobbyDigital at 7:49 AM on August 21, 2007
In these circumstances, I've often found it helpful to move. Say about 1000 miles? That way, you don't need to use will power to stay away. Geography does it for you. On the downside, people will tell you running away never solved anything.
Yeah, and those people are wrong. Well-intentioned, because it's rare that you solve your problems by just just running away, and it's true that sometimes you lose alot by running away, and that sometimes you gain more by fighting the battle. But seriously, sometimes getting away is the best solution. Distance creates benefits. Safety. Perspective.
That said, I don't know that anon needs to pick a new state to live in, but she does need distance, whether or not it's the geographical kind. I'd agree with the posters who say do it directly and with grace -- almost nobody regrets laying their cards on the table with class, and that in itself an action that's driven by self-esteem and builds it.
But anon, be patient with yourself. Sometimes it's just hard to move on, sometimes it smarts for a good while when you've been shot down, but you do what you gotta do anyway because staying stuck's worse, and when you know you're doing it, the self-respect comes.
Oh, and maybe the people who're saying get another man on your body are right, but I don't know, sometimes I think some people really just do better in the self-respect category if they don't actually have sex until it's clear their interest is, in fact, really into them, and the relationship escalates. Then again, I grew up all religious-like, so it's possible I and the people I know who seem to fit this description are just repressed.
posted by namespan at 11:03 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yeah, and those people are wrong. Well-intentioned, because it's rare that you solve your problems by just just running away, and it's true that sometimes you lose alot by running away, and that sometimes you gain more by fighting the battle. But seriously, sometimes getting away is the best solution. Distance creates benefits. Safety. Perspective.
That said, I don't know that anon needs to pick a new state to live in, but she does need distance, whether or not it's the geographical kind. I'd agree with the posters who say do it directly and with grace -- almost nobody regrets laying their cards on the table with class, and that in itself an action that's driven by self-esteem and builds it.
But anon, be patient with yourself. Sometimes it's just hard to move on, sometimes it smarts for a good while when you've been shot down, but you do what you gotta do anyway because staying stuck's worse, and when you know you're doing it, the self-respect comes.
Oh, and maybe the people who're saying get another man on your body are right, but I don't know, sometimes I think some people really just do better in the self-respect category if they don't actually have sex until it's clear their interest is, in fact, really into them, and the relationship escalates. Then again, I grew up all religious-like, so it's possible I and the people I know who seem to fit this description are just repressed.
posted by namespan at 11:03 AM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Others have picked up on this, but avoid demonizing Rick. He's been pretty up-front with you.
True, but at the same time, he knows that anonymous wants more but he has continued to maintain (barely!) the relationship. It sounds like he likes the female attention, but doesn't care much who it's coming from. Attention from another woman may be a salve that's lessening the sting of rejection by his ex-fiancee. This is why I believe he's using anonymous. Anon. doesn't need to "demonize" this guy, but it doesn't sound like she owes him anything, either. The reason I'd advise her to move on without further contact is that any - ANY - further contact on her part gives her a mental excuse to continue wondering whether this could turn into something more. If this guy really cares about her (even as a friend), he'll get in touch to see what's going on. I'm guessing he won't.
I could be very, very wrong, but in these unequal situations I've always thought that the burden should be on the person who's less invested. That is, if somebody's enamored of you but you know you're not in it for anything other than the attention/physical stuff, you should bow out gracefully. Maybe this is ridiculous to expect anyone to do, but a decent person should realize that this is so much harder to do when you're the one with all the emotions. If you don't want to use someone, you should take the lead in ending it (rather than take advantage of the other person's lovesickness). Then again, I seem to expect a higher level of consideration of others than many people seem capable of - or willing to give, anyway.
posted by splendid animal at 12:42 PM on August 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
True, but at the same time, he knows that anonymous wants more but he has continued to maintain (barely!) the relationship. It sounds like he likes the female attention, but doesn't care much who it's coming from. Attention from another woman may be a salve that's lessening the sting of rejection by his ex-fiancee. This is why I believe he's using anonymous. Anon. doesn't need to "demonize" this guy, but it doesn't sound like she owes him anything, either. The reason I'd advise her to move on without further contact is that any - ANY - further contact on her part gives her a mental excuse to continue wondering whether this could turn into something more. If this guy really cares about her (even as a friend), he'll get in touch to see what's going on. I'm guessing he won't.
I could be very, very wrong, but in these unequal situations I've always thought that the burden should be on the person who's less invested. That is, if somebody's enamored of you but you know you're not in it for anything other than the attention/physical stuff, you should bow out gracefully. Maybe this is ridiculous to expect anyone to do, but a decent person should realize that this is so much harder to do when you're the one with all the emotions. If you don't want to use someone, you should take the lead in ending it (rather than take advantage of the other person's lovesickness). Then again, I seem to expect a higher level of consideration of others than many people seem capable of - or willing to give, anyway.
posted by splendid animal at 12:42 PM on August 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
This is why I believe he's using anonymous. Anon. doesn't need to "demonize" this guy, but it doesn't sound like she owes him anything, either.
She owes him the courtesy of being upfront and honest. "I'm sorry, this isn't working. Goodbye." Otherwise, if he does happen to be concerned, even as just a friend, and contacts her, wouldn't that also give her false hope?
If he's "using" her, it's only with her consent - he's said several times, "this is what I'm up for" and she continues to hope, against all odds and signs, for more. One could say, even, that she's using him to fill her own needs as a place-holder until she's ready to strike-out after what she truly wants for herself.
That is, if somebody's enamored of you but you know you're not in it for anything other than the attention/physical stuff, you should bow out gracefully. Maybe this is ridiculous to expect anyone to do, but a decent person should realize that this is so much harder to do when you're the one with all the emotions.
Here's where I think you're wrong.
She says herself that she's the one that keeps relenting and going along with it. She's making the choice to accept what he's offering. By saying, "oh, HE should be the one doing the ending," you're absolving her of her own responsibility and agency in this situation. It strikes me as a rather passive approach to things; expecting him to end the situation when she has tacitly -- until now -- accepted this status quo.
Yes, it's hard to do when you're emotional - but that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility to be willing to be truthful when you're not okay with the status quo, "You know, you're fine with this, and I'm not, so I think we should go our separate ways."
(I've seen too many situations where somebody expected someone else to do the hard work for them by saying, "I'm too emotional! They should understand MY PAIN!")
Rather, the person who isn't getting what they want is responsible for taking action. In this situation, that's her. I think it will be a strengthening experience for her to assert herself, walk away, and next time, not be willing to settle for less than she's after.
posted by canine epigram at 3:02 PM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
She owes him the courtesy of being upfront and honest. "I'm sorry, this isn't working. Goodbye." Otherwise, if he does happen to be concerned, even as just a friend, and contacts her, wouldn't that also give her false hope?
If he's "using" her, it's only with her consent - he's said several times, "this is what I'm up for" and she continues to hope, against all odds and signs, for more. One could say, even, that she's using him to fill her own needs as a place-holder until she's ready to strike-out after what she truly wants for herself.
That is, if somebody's enamored of you but you know you're not in it for anything other than the attention/physical stuff, you should bow out gracefully. Maybe this is ridiculous to expect anyone to do, but a decent person should realize that this is so much harder to do when you're the one with all the emotions.
Here's where I think you're wrong.
She says herself that she's the one that keeps relenting and going along with it. She's making the choice to accept what he's offering. By saying, "oh, HE should be the one doing the ending," you're absolving her of her own responsibility and agency in this situation. It strikes me as a rather passive approach to things; expecting him to end the situation when she has tacitly -- until now -- accepted this status quo.
Yes, it's hard to do when you're emotional - but that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility to be willing to be truthful when you're not okay with the status quo, "You know, you're fine with this, and I'm not, so I think we should go our separate ways."
(I've seen too many situations where somebody expected someone else to do the hard work for them by saying, "I'm too emotional! They should understand MY PAIN!")
Rather, the person who isn't getting what they want is responsible for taking action. In this situation, that's her. I think it will be a strengthening experience for her to assert herself, walk away, and next time, not be willing to settle for less than she's after.
posted by canine epigram at 3:02 PM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
How do I get out of this? Should I send him an email and just say, "Sorry. Can't do this anymore?"
I don't really understand why you don't just start dating other people. Don't worry about "Rick" one way or the other. You know it's not going anywhere, and it doesn't sound like he's paying particular attention, so just let him know you're putting your profile back up (or whatever), and as you start going on dates with other people, start turning down "dates" with Rick. You're not really "in a relationship" with Rick as it is, so I wouldn't do any sort of big dramatic break-up scene with him. Just stop going on dates with him.
As for your self-esteem, the most important element is not to base your self-estimation on the value others place on you, especially not the value placed on you by potential sexual partners. In other words, whether [random guy] likes you is not a good basis for whether you should be satisfied with who you are. Sure, plenty of human beings derive their self-esteem primarily from how they're viewed by their peers, which is often why we love good grades, awards, promotions, high salaries & expensive things that show off how much money we're paid, but it's important to also love the activity itself (so if you are proud that you got an A because you honestly learned something and enjoyed writing the paper, that is healthy self-esteem, but if you are proud you got an A when you bought the paper online, that is not, kinda thing).
In this case, you weren't even that into this guy at first; you started getting obsessed when he was unattainable and have let it become a fantasy. But he's probably not as interesting as you imagine him to be - you might have made him more exciting because you don't see that much of him, and because he has at least subconsciously implied that he is too good for you. Who knows. In any case, his opinion of you is not the one that matters, because he is not you. Only you are you. You get to be whatever sort of person you want (sure, it's more complicated than that, but ultimately, a person's choices & behaviors define them, and although we habituate our behaviors, they are not imposed or fated, which is to say, you are responsible for who you have become, and who you continue to be). Basically, there is no reason to have low self-esteem, since you chose (at whatever level of consciousness) to be this person. if you don't like it, don't feel sorry for yourself - work on it.
posted by mdn at 8:28 PM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
I don't really understand why you don't just start dating other people. Don't worry about "Rick" one way or the other. You know it's not going anywhere, and it doesn't sound like he's paying particular attention, so just let him know you're putting your profile back up (or whatever), and as you start going on dates with other people, start turning down "dates" with Rick. You're not really "in a relationship" with Rick as it is, so I wouldn't do any sort of big dramatic break-up scene with him. Just stop going on dates with him.
As for your self-esteem, the most important element is not to base your self-estimation on the value others place on you, especially not the value placed on you by potential sexual partners. In other words, whether [random guy] likes you is not a good basis for whether you should be satisfied with who you are. Sure, plenty of human beings derive their self-esteem primarily from how they're viewed by their peers, which is often why we love good grades, awards, promotions, high salaries & expensive things that show off how much money we're paid, but it's important to also love the activity itself (so if you are proud that you got an A because you honestly learned something and enjoyed writing the paper, that is healthy self-esteem, but if you are proud you got an A when you bought the paper online, that is not, kinda thing).
In this case, you weren't even that into this guy at first; you started getting obsessed when he was unattainable and have let it become a fantasy. But he's probably not as interesting as you imagine him to be - you might have made him more exciting because you don't see that much of him, and because he has at least subconsciously implied that he is too good for you. Who knows. In any case, his opinion of you is not the one that matters, because he is not you. Only you are you. You get to be whatever sort of person you want (sure, it's more complicated than that, but ultimately, a person's choices & behaviors define them, and although we habituate our behaviors, they are not imposed or fated, which is to say, you are responsible for who you have become, and who you continue to be). Basically, there is no reason to have low self-esteem, since you chose (at whatever level of consciousness) to be this person. if you don't like it, don't feel sorry for yourself - work on it.
posted by mdn at 8:28 PM on August 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Then stick to that. You'll feel better about yourself.
posted by klangklangston at 7:08 PM on August 20, 2007 [6 favorites]