Is Juvenon bollocks?
April 28, 2004 1:26 AM Subscribe
Mefi biologist types : is this bollocks? I suspect so, but hope springs eternal.
Found at Kevin Kelly's excellent Cool Tools.
Found at Kevin Kelly's excellent Cool Tools.
Best answer: OK, it's been a while since my days in a molecular biology lab--and I'm not going to spend the hours or days that it would take to evaluate their claims thoroughly--but here's my impressions.
My biggest concern, looking at the scientific articles they cite, as well as their "Energy Study," is that there aren't any published, peer-reviewed studies in humans. The papers listed in the "Scientific Articles" section are all either animal or cellular studies. And most of the animal studies do not seem to cite results which could directly translate to improved quality of life. (The exceptions being ambulatory activity and reversal of memory loss, but the others--improved mitochondrial function? Well, it seems like that might result in higher energy levels--or it might not.) Meanwhile, the "Energy Study" does not appear to have been published outside of the website, so it's not peer-reviewed, and worse they only present the conclusions, not the raw data which would be published in a reviewed journal article, so we could see for ourselves whether the data supports their conclusions.
Even given what we have from them about the "Energy Study," their results seem weak. They measured the subjects in three different areas.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:49 AM on April 28, 2004
My biggest concern, looking at the scientific articles they cite, as well as their "Energy Study," is that there aren't any published, peer-reviewed studies in humans. The papers listed in the "Scientific Articles" section are all either animal or cellular studies. And most of the animal studies do not seem to cite results which could directly translate to improved quality of life. (The exceptions being ambulatory activity and reversal of memory loss, but the others--improved mitochondrial function? Well, it seems like that might result in higher energy levels--or it might not.) Meanwhile, the "Energy Study" does not appear to have been published outside of the website, so it's not peer-reviewed, and worse they only present the conclusions, not the raw data which would be published in a reviewed journal article, so we could see for ourselves whether the data supports their conclusions.
Even given what we have from them about the "Energy Study," their results seem weak. They measured the subjects in three different areas.
- Biomarkers. 8 of 9 biomarkers (chemicals in the body which supposedly are indicative of various things) are improved, but there's no link made between these improved levels and any actual quality of life.
- Strength and fitness tests. These would be the most directly relevant of the three measures, I would think. "Some subjects showed positive changes on some of the parameters, but generally the results here were inconclusive."
- The Psychological General Well-Being Index. "The 'Total Scores' of a majority of subjects were higher when taking Juvenon Energy FormulaTM than when they were on placebo." Hmm. In a statistically significant way? If the test was administered correctly, and the results are indeed statistically significant, then that's the sort of result we're looking for. But without the raw data, we can't know whether it's a significant result or not.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:49 AM on April 28, 2004
DA is correct - there appear to be no convincing clinical trials to show that Juvenon improves quality of life or health. Indeed, of the claims of improvements that they've found at the cellular level, they add a disclaimer: "These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease."
Maybe it does improve health to some degree (yet we don't know that), but it's certainly not a magic bullet. There are plenty of easier and proven ways to improve your health and put off ageing, by having a balanced diet and exercising properly.
posted by adrianhon at 9:10 AM on April 28, 2004
Maybe it does improve health to some degree (yet we don't know that), but it's certainly not a magic bullet. There are plenty of easier and proven ways to improve your health and put off ageing, by having a balanced diet and exercising properly.
posted by adrianhon at 9:10 AM on April 28, 2004
The study of the disease porphyria is always useful when researching the elements of aging. I think it was only recently that they discovered that the aging effect from this disease was caused by poor cellular reproduction, not by the health of those individual cells (I may be paraphrasing poorly, but maybe this will help with the research)
posted by milovoo at 9:25 AM on April 28, 2004
posted by milovoo at 9:25 AM on April 28, 2004
DA and adrainhon's reponse seems about right. Additionally, Juvenon is a pill. Even if it contains these proteins that help mitochondrial activity, once they hit your stomach acid and digestive enzymes, they will be denatured and cleaved to their substituent amino acids. Then, the cells one machinery (DNA-->mRNA-->etc) will form the AAs it needs. Basically, this pill won't do a thing.
If you want to feel younger, eat well and exercise daily. That's the only protection against aging.
posted by ruwan at 9:31 AM on April 28, 2004
If you want to feel younger, eat well and exercise daily. That's the only protection against aging.
posted by ruwan at 9:31 AM on April 28, 2004
ruwan: I don't believe the (allegedly) active ingredients in the pill are proteins. Now, the website never quite comes out and says exactly what the two compounds are--just gives descriptions of their effects--but the scientific literature they cite talks about acetyl-L-carnitine and lipoic acid, which fit the description of the compounds in Juvenon. Neither acetyl-L-carnitine nor lipoic acid are proteins.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:46 AM on April 28, 2004
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:46 AM on April 28, 2004
Ah yes, acetyl-L-carnitine and alpha-lipoic acid, the combo that is reported to make rats get up and do the Macarena. For this reason, it is to be avoided. We don't need any more dancing rodents.
posted by kindall at 10:57 AM on April 28, 2004
posted by kindall at 10:57 AM on April 28, 2004
Isn't L-carnitine in Red Bull as well?
(or is acetyl-L-carnitine different?)
posted by milovoo at 1:28 PM on April 28, 2004
(or is acetyl-L-carnitine different?)
posted by milovoo at 1:28 PM on April 28, 2004
Different compounds, although when acetyl-L-carnitine is broken down in the body one of the products is L-carnitine, so they're likely to have similar effects.
Red Bull does not contain L-carnitine, although some drinks do.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:07 PM on April 28, 2004
Red Bull does not contain L-carnitine, although some drinks do.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:07 PM on April 28, 2004
Response by poster: Gracias for the info. I will continue, as ruwan mentions, my regimen of healthy food and exercise.
But this kind of thing seems just around the corner, biomedically speaking, and I've always got my antennae up.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:43 PM on April 28, 2004
But this kind of thing seems just around the corner, biomedically speaking, and I've always got my antennae up.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:43 PM on April 28, 2004
Best answer: also there's not really a problem of old mitochondria in older people. mitochondria, fantastically, can reproduce somewhat independently of the cell their in, achieving a static population. They have their own dna etc, this is what led to the endosymbiotic theory.
It's not complete garbage, I mean, sentence by sentence, most of them are factually correct, which is more than you can say about most sites like this, but I wouldn't believe it.
The description of the anti-oxidant seems very unlikely:
This constituent of the Juvenon product is an amphipathic substance, as it is both water and lipid soluble, and can therefore penetrate and protect lipid containing cell membranes as well as water soluble cell components. Another important characteristic of this multiple function compound is its capacity to be regenerated to an active form, within the cell, after reacting with and neutralizing an oxidant.
amphipathic molecules are more likely to be incorporated into cellular membranes than they are to pass through them, even so it could work while in a membrane. unless this is something already present in cells it seems unlikely that the cell could recycle it.
For some cool aging reseach try this google search
posted by rhyax at 10:30 PM on April 28, 2004
It's not complete garbage, I mean, sentence by sentence, most of them are factually correct, which is more than you can say about most sites like this, but I wouldn't believe it.
The description of the anti-oxidant seems very unlikely:
This constituent of the Juvenon product is an amphipathic substance, as it is both water and lipid soluble, and can therefore penetrate and protect lipid containing cell membranes as well as water soluble cell components. Another important characteristic of this multiple function compound is its capacity to be regenerated to an active form, within the cell, after reacting with and neutralizing an oxidant.
amphipathic molecules are more likely to be incorporated into cellular membranes than they are to pass through them, even so it could work while in a membrane. unless this is something already present in cells it seems unlikely that the cell could recycle it.
For some cool aging reseach try this google search
posted by rhyax at 10:30 PM on April 28, 2004
By the way, Juvenon is the company that's producing the acetyl-L-carnitine and alpha-lipoic acid cocktail discovered/invented by Dr. Bruce Ames, the man who emitted the "rats doing the macarena" quote.
posted by kindall at 11:29 PM on April 28, 2004
posted by kindall at 11:29 PM on April 28, 2004
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posted by jfuller at 8:38 AM on April 28, 2004