Apartment hunting near U. Chicago
July 26, 2007 8:39 AM   Subscribe

HydeParkHousing: I'll be an entering graduate student at UofC this fall. I've never rented an apartment before, nor do I know Hyde Park (or, for that matter, Chicagoland generally). Help me find a place to live!

For my first year, I've pretty well decided I want to rent a studio in Hyde Park. The main thing I'm wondering about is what locations (in addition to my lab at 57th and S. Drexel) do I want to ensure I live near? That is, where are the grocery/drug stores, bars/restaurants, public transport stops (I hope to be able to venture downtown sometimes), and the like that I need for daily life and want to ensure that I live near? Alternately, any places I should avoid living too near? (Frathouse row, maybe, or other exceptionally loud or sketchy areas?)

General apartment-hunting tips for the area would also be great - especially questions that I should be sure to ask about potential apartments. Are there any particular buildings or landlords that should be pursued or avoided? Thoughts on university-owned (I've already applied) vs. private housing would also be of interest.

It seems like I'll be able to get (cheap?) DSL anywhere, and that, while central-air is uncommon, window air conditioners are universally allowed/used in summer (and often rented from the landlord). Accurate? Roughly how much should I budget for utilities (assuming I don't watch TV, and ideally would pay the telco only for naked DSL)?

I won't have a car, and I want to cap rent+utilities at $700 max. (By the way, I'm curious: are rents realistically negotiable, the way house-prices are always assumed to be?) And, for added difficulty, I have to do this whole process from Cleveland, 6+ hours away. Thank you!
posted by kickingtheground to Home & Garden (29 answers total) 8 users marked this as a favorite
I lived there about five years ago, at a apartment complex called Museum Walk, at 56th and Everett. There's an express bus to downtown (called the Jeffries Express then, it might have a different name now). Like 20 minutes to downtown? Might be slower now.

Also, if you can catch the Metra (i lived a few blocks from it), that literally took 12 minutes to get downtown.

You'll want to stay closer to the commercial strips - that means 55th, 53rd, 57th, and...er, i can't even remember now. But 55th is a good place to be.

You should be able to find a studio in that price rnage, no problem. I looked at my same apt again just an hour ago online, and it was still 660 or so for a studio with all utilities (not including A/C unit or cable or DSL or anything). I paid like 25/month for DSL or something.

Uh, I've never been able to bargain a rent in my life, unless I was renting from a person, not a management company.

You probably can do this from Cleveland...Chicago's apartment market isnt super tight...like, say New York's.
posted by jare2003 at 9:03 AM on July 26, 2007

I was in the Physics program at UofC 1997-2004.

bars? Ha ha ha ha ha. The U of C chased most of them out. Jimmy's is an instituion, though, at 55th and Woodlawn. The remaining few are across the Metra tracks on the east side. You can live over there; the University contracted with the CTA to have a couple of bus circulator routes. You can get downtown via Metra or CTA fairly easily; Metra and CTA are along Lake Park Ave., and you can connect to Lake Park via 55th or 51st street buses fairly easily (or the aforementioned loop routes)

The only grocery to speak of is the Hyde Park Co-op, and it's not great. I would make big shopping trips by car when I could on a monthly basis.

I never lived in a studio, so I can't help you there. I think $700 seems optimistic though; studios when I left were running in the $500s and the area was getting condos rapidly, so rents were only getting worse.

The general wisdom was that K&G management was the skeezy place; that said, a lot of people would take advantage of their cheap rents and live with reduced quality. I took the university's apartments for a year, b/c I was getting married the next summer; got a roomate randomly and it worked out ok. They were serviceable, a bit austere, but clean and everything was kept working.

I never heard of a problem with window air units--and you'll want one--but be sure to ask of course.

When I showed up, from 51st to the midway, Cottage Grove to the lakefront was considered safe. The university is working on getting the area down to 63rd better, and I think by the time I left it was regarded as well as anything else. There were ok places to live up to 47th as well.
posted by stevis23 at 9:04 AM on July 26, 2007

The default first place to live for med students seems to be Regents. It's true that the coop is your only real grocery options and sucks. Also that Hyde Park dies at 8:30PM. Living near the metra is an OK way to get downtown, but has very restricted schedules. Other than that, you'd want to live near 55th so that you can take the bus to the red line (not green!)

Advice: get out of Hyde Park. Most of the second years do. Get a cheap car since parking in HP is free and easy to come by. You'll thank me when you're not shopping at the freaking coop. You're better off with a roommate from a good UofC grad program (they don't have time to be at home anyway) than living by yourself.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 9:17 AM on July 26, 2007

I was an undergrad at the UofC, class of 2006. I've never known rents to be negotiable, I rented a one bedroom for $850, so I would think a studio at around $700 would be doable, but I never looked at studio prices.

I lived at 54th and Woodlawn(along with a lot of other undergrads). For that reason, it's a little more of an Undergrad environment, a little louder on Friday nights, but that said, this is the UofC, it's never very bad.

If you're looking to be close to your lab at 57th and Drexel, I know there are some apartments in the blocks between 56 and 58th and Cottage Grove and Drexel. It's not a big area, and my impression was always that it was a litte sketchier than other areas.

As far as being near stuff, the main public transport is either the 55 bus, that runs along 55th St and goes to the train, or the express buses that go downtown. One leaves from campus at 57th and University, another runs down Hyde Park and Lake Park, on the far east side of Hyde Park. There's also the Metra, which I really liked, there are a couple stops roughly along Lake Park.

As far as I know, the only real grocery store is the Co-Op at 55th and Lake Park. There was, when I lived there, a Co-Op on 53rd at Kimbark, but I think it closed down. The best bars(read: Only Bars) are the Jimmy's at 55th and Woodlawn, and The Pub, a university run bar that's on campus. Most of the restaurants are clustered either along 57th or 53rd, on the East side of campus.

Generally, I found Hyde Park very walkable, and never felt like anything was too far away. I also never had any trouble with crime, although I knew a couple people who got mugged. Generally speaking, 51st to the Midway and from Cottage grove to the lake is pretty safe. I can't offer much advice on specific companies. I rented from a place called Phinix, that has since stopped renting in Hyde Park(I think). I also rented from Blackstone, who had a bunch of apartments in the 55th-53rd, University-Dorchester area. K&G are the slum lords, but I've heard they changed their name. They're cheap, but they don't fix things and are pretty awful to deal with, from what I hear. That said, with all the students moving in and out of Hyde Park, there are always apartments available, so it shouldn't be too hard to find somewhere.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:20 AM on July 26, 2007

I lived in a 2-bedroom university owned apartment on Ingleside which was gorgeous. High ceilings, big rooms, solidly built (so not too much neighbor noise). It was nice to be in a building with exclusively other grad students. Great superintendent, Jose, who lived in the faculty building adjoining. Downsides? It was south of the Midway, which meant a longer trek to most things; it was teetering on the edge of the nastier parts of the neighborhood. In the first week of classes my roommate saw a guy being thrown up on the back of a car and arrested in our parking lot. We frequently heard domestic disputes going on down the block. It was far away from any kind of shopping -- but close to the Midway, the hospitals, and the bookstore.
A couple of friends lived in a university highrise over closer to 55th, in studios or one-bedrooms. Those were pretty nice, with great city views, and much much closer to shopping and social life. All in all, I think I'd recommend living there, closer to both branches of the Coop, surrounded by more university people and more amenities.
Buy an A/C unit when you get to town -- people are always selling them cheap on the UChicago list or on craigslist in about October, and you can just hang onto it until it gets warm enough to mess with it. The university-owned buildings were fine for putting in window units, and taking them with you when you left.
I took care of my housing from farther away than you are, and it was pretty seamless dealing with the university. Not that they were efficient -- totally the opposite -- but they were relatively friendly, and it was pretty straightforward. We only had to pay phone/internet/cable, but the downside was the heat was not in our control. My radiator wouldn't turn off, so I slept in the living room for the first couple of cold nights until the super could fix it and keep me from overheating.

Bonus UChicago tip: If you have or develop any mental health problems, do not hesitate to go to the university Student Counseling Service. They are excellent, and very accustomed to dealing with stressed grad students dealing with what is a pretty inherently crazy-making process.
posted by katemonster at 9:31 AM on July 26, 2007

My apartment complex was run by TLC Management. They own about 25 buildings or so. They have a website with plans and availablily, so you should check them out. I never had any real problems with my place.

Yes, people are right. Nightlife and Hyde Park dont go together - there's about three bars total.

I should also note that I just lived in Hyde Park for a year, and worked on the northwest side of Chicago. I didn't go to U of C, so your experience may differ.
posted by jare2003 at 9:31 AM on July 26, 2007

Since you'll be working at 57th & Drexel and you want a cheap studio, I'd suggest looking south of the midway. Even 5 years ago, I'd never have suggested that, but the area is a lot safer now and the UofC police have recently extended their patrol zone down to 75th, I think. Get a bike and you're good to go.

If you want to stay within $700/month, I'd suggest avoiding UofC grad student housing like the plague. Their rents are inflated by about 10%-15% because they cater to students too naive or lazy to find an apartment on their own. Your best bet is to keep an eye open on marketplace to see what pops up. Barring that, plan to come up for a weekend (you can book a cheap room at the International House) and walk around a bit.

Mainly, I'd suggest staying south of 47th street, north of 65th street, east of cottage grove and west of Lake Michigan. That's the general outline of Hyde Park and within it, you're fairly safe. Also, I'd stay off the main streets. I'm living on 55th right now and it's a nightmare for street noise. Closer to the lake and promontory point is nice, but you might have a hard time keeping within your budget there.

The bar scene in Hyde Park has gotten a bit better in the last few years. Jimmy's on 55th is the platonic form of a bar. The bowling alley down the street serves better beer & better food. And you can play pool there. There's a Bar Louie near the lakefront. Oh, and the Checkerboard Lounge relocated from way down south to Hyde Park a year ago, so you can hear live blues in the neighborhood. You won't die for want of a drink, but you'll also want to get used to the CTA so that you can escape north. The Metra is for pansies who are afraid of riding the bus.

For grocery stores, you're basically fucked. There's the Co-Op and that's about it (barring horribly overpriced markets). The produce market on 53rd is a wonderful place though. Great selection and very good produce. You'll do your staples shopping at the Co-Op, hating every overpriced and filthy moment of it.

The other, myriad joys of Hyde Park will show themselves in time. Your first Sunday brunch at the Medici followed by a leisurely browse at 57th Street Books and you will love the neighborhood, I promise.

That's it off the top of my head. Email me if you have other questions. Or if you're coming to town. I'll buy you a beer at Jimmy's.
posted by felix betachat at 9:36 AM on July 26, 2007

Oh, and bonus Hyde Park grocery tip: Peapod delivers in HP. Prices are not any worse than the Coop, selection is sometimes better, and you can place your order whenever you're at your computer for a few minutes. Schedule your delivery and they'll bring the stuff into the house, freeing you from fighting with the crowds at the Coop and hauling your stuff on the bus. Especially when it's been snowing for a few days, you can't put off shopping any longer, and you don't feel like slipping and sliding with armloads of food, grocery delivery can be a godsend. (Coop did delivery too, when I was there, but I preferred Peapod.)
posted by katemonster at 9:36 AM on July 26, 2007

Jimmy's and the Co-Op! So many memories. Get a bike and be sure to shop as often as possible, since taking the bus to the real grocery stores for large trips is a pain. I lived on 57th and Woodlawn and could get to everywhere with an easy walk. If you're new to Hyde Park you'll be happy to hear that everything is easily walkable and even more easily bike-able. I agree that $700 is a little optimistic. I graduated in '99 and shared a 2 bedroom for $700. We really lucked out on that price back then. I also second getting close to the Metra, as getting downtown quickly will be a great asset.
posted by monkeymadness at 9:37 AM on July 26, 2007

Excellent info so far - keep it coming!

Regarding Metra vs. CTA - what options, if any, do I have late nights? If I go out in the city, til, say 2 a.m., is there a decent late-night service? Or am I stuck with a cab?
posted by kickingtheground at 9:45 AM on July 26, 2007

The #6 Jackson Park Express runs until about 12:30. During the school year, the Lakeview Express bus runs until about the same time. Any time after that and I usually cab it home. If you're way north, you can catch the red or blue lines to the loop and then pay ~$18 for a cab. I think the Metra does run later than that, but I never think to take it.
posted by felix betachat at 9:51 AM on July 26, 2007

Okay, I'm an undergrad right now, class of 2010, so this is Hyde Park today.

As long as you are not picky, you can get a studio for a very reasonable. Don't count on negotiable rents, though. I've definitely never heard of them. MAC property management is undergoing some... internal issues, so from what I've heard you should avoid them.

The University-owned apartments look nicer than the one I'm living in... there are two or three buildings of them on my block (56/Drexel) and I'm always a little jealous. I don't know how price compares since I'm not eligible, but my dealings with undergrad housing have always been pleasant.

Transit: lots of options. To get to the trains (Red and Green Garfield stops) most of us take the 55 bus (55th street/Garfield). There is also a University express bus (174) that goes to these stops during rush hours and late Friday/Saturday nights. It isn't one of the free busses, but it is quite convenient if you live more on campus since it drops you off at the Reynolds club (57/University) instead of on 55th street. Once you're on a train, you can take it up to a transfer stop to get on a different line. It's not too difficult.
For more bus options, there is also the 6 Jackson Park Express, which picks up in various places around Hyde Park and runs fairly late into the evening; and the 2 Hyde Park Express, which is more convenient for some of us but only runs during weekday rush hours. Both of these go directly downtown (Michigan/State streets). The University runs a Lakeview express bus (pay), the 173, and that goes to some different parts of downtown and the Lakeview neighborhood north of the Loop, where there are some nice bars and restaurants. The free University buses are the 170/171/172, which basically go around campus and the main drags in Hyde Park/Kenwood. All you need for these is an ID. The X28 Stony Island Express goes to Union Station, as does the 192 University Hospitals Express (which picks up in front of the hospitals). The 14/15 Jeffery Park buses pick up at some convenient places in the neighborhood, too. Those are further north than I live and I've only used them a few times, but if you live up there, you'll probably see them and use them.

The Co-Op is at 55/Lake Park. It's overpriced and poor quality. I avoid it. I get my produce at Hyde Park Produce (53/Kimbark...ish) and then go up to the Roosevelt stop on the Green/Red to the Jewel-Osco there for everything else (there is also a Target right there, and a Dominick's fairly close). I also go to Trader Joe's two blocks from the Grand Red Line stop downtown. There's a Whole Foods near there too, but that's wayyy out of my price range. Walgreen's/Ace Hardware/Potbelly's/OfficeDepot are all in that Co-Op plaza too. There's a CVS near HPP. Lots of restaurants on 55, 53; fewer on 57... otherwise, you've got the whole city at your disposal. I use MetroMix, Virtual El, and Tasty Popsicle (for navigational purposes) to get me out and trying new things. Menupages has a Chicago site so you can get an idea of what you may be getting into. Get a Chicago Card Plus now--it links to your credit/debit card and refills automatically. It's great.

DO NOT listen to people--you can take any of the public transit options (including the Green Line!) without being mugged/fearing for your life if you are just a little city-smart. I'm a 4'8" unassuming little girl, frequently use the Green Line Cottage Grove/63 stop, and I've never had a problem aside from being hit on by some skeezy guys. I'm just careful, and I know what to do in case of a problem--I've had to call the police for someone else before, never for myself. The police coverage here is amazing, by the way--university private AND Chicago public. There's a blue-light emergency phone on practically every block, you can generally see one from wherever you're standing. The University sends out these scary "safety alert" emails and my boss freaks out and won't let me walk the two blocks home, but I know they're doing it to cover their asses and not to fear-monger. Hyde Park IS safe, everywhere, as long as you're alert.

Okay, that was incredibly long, but I think I covered everything. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to contact me--email's in the profile. And welcome to the U of C!
posted by rhoticity at 9:52 AM on July 26, 2007

Here's the place I used to live. Worth checking out their other buildings, maybe.

I liked the Co-op a lot, but its expensive.

Oh yes, 57th Street Books and Powell's Books (also on 57th). I spent soooooooo much money there. :)

felix: The Metra may be for 'pansies' who don't like taking the bus, but also for people, you know, who might work downtown sometimes. Which was the reason I took it, because it had a convienent stop right in the middle of Hyde Park It was worth 50 extra cents on the fare to have a 12 minute ride downtown than to not be sure whether the Jeffries Express was going to come on time, and whether traffic meant I might get late to work.
posted by jare2003 at 9:54 AM on July 26, 2007

Late nights: the Red and Blue lines run all night, as does the 55 bus (and many other buses--they will be marked "OWL" routes on the CTA site and the bus stop signs). If you need to get home late, you just need to get to the Red Line, take it to Garfield, and take the 55 home. I've done it at 4 am, alone. No biggie. The bus stop is very well-lit and the train station is just across the street.
posted by rhoticity at 9:54 AM on July 26, 2007

For coming back at night, I recommend the CTA trip planner (google it) to check your options. Some people are very optimistic about the green line stations, but I've had problems there. The police presence at the red line station is much greater.

The #6 is fine for getting downtown, but in my experience is not a good way to get back home. It's typically unreliable and so crowded that you might have to watch several full buses go by before you can get on one.

Correction: the UofC police patrol 39th to 64th now, but become less reliable as you go. Crossing MLK on foot is at your own risk. As rhoticity pointed out, the dozens of "safety awareness" reports which let us know about attacks/robberies make me less sanguine about Hyde Park. I mean, in the rest of the city at least I don't have to know about my chances of getting attacked. There's also for several years now been a series of dozens of attacks per year by black juveniles against white university males. They are rarely serious (few injuries or weapons involved), and are likely just an initiation thing that makes the statistics look worse than they are.

Ask the safety people about the sexual assaults lately; it's hard for an outsider to contextualize assault rates/density compared to other areas in the city.

Are you BSD? There's a building at Drexel and 55th that I know which is almost an MSTP dorm; I can ask the people in there if there are availabilities.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 11:54 AM on July 26, 2007

I'm a graduate student at the U of C, living near 53rd & Kimbark for the past five years. (Almost done, though.)

The problem with Hyde Park is that there is precious little in the way of day-to-day living stuff (retail, restaurants, etc.) in close proximity to the University; so you're either going to be close to the University or close to shops. Having tried both, I'd say that you should live close to the shops. I'm currently about 60 seconds away from (IMO) one of the best food shops in Chicago, Hyde Park Produce, and about five minutes from the Co-Op (a necessary evil, as far as I'm concerned); it takes me 15 minutes to walk to campus in the morning. During my first year here, I had to take a bus to get to the Co-Op, and let me tell you that wrangling your groceries home on the bus is not much fun. (The primary retail areas are 53rd, between Woodlawn & the lake; 55th, between Harper and the lake; and Lake Park, between 51st and 55th.)

I rent from the University; while the rent is higher than it would otherwise be (I currently pay $780/mo for a 1BR) , the buildings I've lived in have been impeccably well-maintained. For many years, the local "slumlords" were K&G property management, and you were supposed to avoid them unless you were a starving undergraduate. Over the past year or two, however, MAC property management bought up about half of their properties (but not, apparently, all of them.) So at this point it's hard to say who to avoid; MAC has some nice properties as well, but I doubt that they've done significant renovations on the shabbier building that they bought from K&G.

Utilities: DSL + phone runs me around $80/mo (I'm pretty sure I'm overpaying, though.) I'm not sure if you can get DSL without phone, though; the local phone co. is AT&T, so you might be able to ask them. Electrical is about $30/mo, and gas is about $20/mo. I don't pay for water or heat.

The #6 (formerly Jeffrey Express, renamed Jackson Park Express two years ago) is my primary conduit for getting downtown; if you live closer to the Lake than, say, Woodlawn, it's frequently quicker to take the #6 downtown and then catch the El from there. It stops running at 1 AM, though; if I'm coming back home after that, I usually take the CTA to the loop and hail a cab from there ($17-20 w/ tip.) It is possible to get back to Hyde Park via the CTA after that point (Red Line and the #55 bus), but after spending from about 2 AM - 3:30 AM one particularly memorable night waiting in the cold & rain on that godforsaken (if well-lit) overpass for the bus to come, I forswore that option. (To be fair, there's a shelter at that spot now, but still.)

Central air is uncommon, for the most part; if you Must Have It, you'll probably need to look at one of the high-rises near the lake. Window-mounted air-conditioners are in fact quite common, although they will of course drive up your electrical bill.
posted by Johnny Assay at 12:19 PM on July 26, 2007

Chicagocrime.org is a good resource for crime statistics to help you evaluate the safety of various areas in the Hyde Park area.
posted by carrienation at 12:21 PM on July 26, 2007

The Cove
Harold's Chicken

This sums up my five years at the U of C.
posted by The Straightener at 12:53 PM on July 26, 2007

As mentioned previously, you'll want to avoid renting from K&G (and probably Blackstone mgt. as well). I lived in a University-managed building and found it quite comfortable and reasonable. You can rent for $650-$850/ month, less if you are willing to share. There are very large (one might say palatial in a sort of dingy, crumbling way) available that three or four could easily share without getting in each other's way all the time.

Most of the comments about shops, food, nightlife etc. are spot on. One of my committee members once told me that the best view of Hyde Park is through a rear-view mirror. Depending what program you are entering, it likely won't matter during your first year.

I cannot recommend this enough- however punishing your workload is, make an effort to get out of Hyde Park at least one evening a week. See other parts of the city. Hang out with other members of your cohort. Relax.

Hyde Park is probably as safe as most neighborhoods in Chicago, but be alert. The University has historically done a very good job of keeping out anyone without a connection to the school who might want to go there for legitimate reasons. The flaw in their cunning plan is that this does nothing for those who might want to go there for illegitimate reasons, and the neighborhood is somewhat of a magnet for them.

Many of my friends who are still there moved to Pilsen, a neighborhood on the SE side. Probably no more or less safe, and much more of an active (predominantly Latin) community. I would also recommend a bike, for transport within and (more importantly) away from HP.

Do take advantage of the lakefront. It's wonderful this time of year. Accept that you will wind up at Jimmy's on more nights than you would like, especially during the winter. It happens, and everyone you know will probably be there.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:10 PM on July 26, 2007

You guys are amazing - all this info is excellent. I owe at least a half-dozen of you drinks when I show up in town.

[Also: I'm in the biophysics Ph.D program, not in the Med School.]
posted by kickingtheground at 2:20 PM on July 26, 2007

Straightener, I lived on Harold's Chicken and that Greek Cafe on...57th or 55th. When I was there Harold's had closed down for health violations, (I'd seen people changing diapers on the counters in the kitchen), but we were waiting in line for it to open again. Hot sauce and french fry sandwiches FTW!
posted by monkeymadness at 2:47 PM on July 26, 2007

BTW: Harold's sucks. Ribs & Bibs, on the other hand, is ambrosia.
posted by felix betachat at 3:10 PM on July 26, 2007

It's all about the white bread on the bottom.
posted by The Straightener at 3:18 PM on July 26, 2007

I am afraid of very little around here, but Harold's still freaks me out a little.

Maravillas (53/Harper) or De Rice (47/Drexel, $1.50 delivery) for cheap, yummy, and fast.
posted by rhoticity at 3:26 PM on July 26, 2007

Also, just as a warning: the CTA Trip Planner will get you where you need to go, but in the most convoluted, confusing, long and potentially expensive way possible. If you need to use it a few times while you're getting used to the system, that's fine. However, I strongly urge you to try the TastyPopsicle link I gave instead to figure out where you need to go by train, and combine that with the CTA's website to find out about buses. You can basically expect there to be a bus on any major street within city limits, and even further (PACE buses take CTA passes.)

I only warn you about this because I have had too many phone calls from lost friends who relied on goofy Trip Planner directions. It's not all bad, it just could be a lot better.
posted by rhoticity at 3:32 PM on July 26, 2007

Oh yeah, the Seminary Co-op is one of the best bookstores in the country, you will get food poisoning from Noodles &tc. or one of the thai places on 55th and Ribs & Bibs actually has better fried chicken than Harolds (and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise).

And definitely have breakfast at Valois (pronounced VAL-oys). You'll get good food, never pay more than $6 and be verbally abused by the kitchen staff while you wait.

(God I miss the House of Tiki)
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:06 PM on July 26, 2007

You may also get food poisoning at the Medici or Florian. YFPMV.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:07 PM on July 26, 2007

Hyde Park Produce on 53rd was nice in my (1998-2004) day; but Angelic Organics was even better. I heard this June that some mgmt company I've never heard of just bought out K&G and now owns/manages "most of the apartments" in Hyde Park. If I moved back I would probably live in Pilsen and commute by bicycle.
posted by xueexueg at 12:22 PM on July 27, 2007

I saw a rat in Florian's once. It was huge. I've haven't been back since, and don't plan to go back anytime soon. /if anyone is still reading this thread...
posted by notswedish at 2:49 AM on November 18, 2007

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