Is it ok to keep posing as a virgin?
July 9, 2007 2:22 PM Subscribe
Was I "technically" raped? More importantly do I need to tell my girlfriend that I'm not a virgin?
When I was seventeen, I had a party at my house when both my parents and my current girlfriend were out of town. I ended up getting really drunk at the party and slept with one of the girls at the party. However, because I was so intoxicated, I "browned/blacked out and barely remember the actual sex act (although I do remember everything leading up to it and bits and pieces during and after). The morning after, I woke up and found the girl in my bed and pieced together what had happened with her help. She was eighteen at the time.
Was I technically raped since I didn't offer consent, was not in a right state of mind, and did not want to cheat on my girlfriend? I'm not asking if I could take her to court over it or anything because I know I'd lose.
Now I'm 19 and involved in a relationship where we are finally ready to have sex. The thing is she is a virgin and I told her I was too. Was this wrong of me or was it alright to keep this from her?
P.S. I know I'm a scumbag for cheating so no need to reiterate that point to me.
When I was seventeen, I had a party at my house when both my parents and my current girlfriend were out of town. I ended up getting really drunk at the party and slept with one of the girls at the party. However, because I was so intoxicated, I "browned/blacked out and barely remember the actual sex act (although I do remember everything leading up to it and bits and pieces during and after). The morning after, I woke up and found the girl in my bed and pieced together what had happened with her help. She was eighteen at the time.
Was I technically raped since I didn't offer consent, was not in a right state of mind, and did not want to cheat on my girlfriend? I'm not asking if I could take her to court over it or anything because I know I'd lose.
Now I'm 19 and involved in a relationship where we are finally ready to have sex. The thing is she is a virgin and I told her I was too. Was this wrong of me or was it alright to keep this from her?
P.S. I know I'm a scumbag for cheating so no need to reiterate that point to me.
Being or not being a virgin is a bit of a semantic game isnt it?
Are you a virgin because you don't remember the sex? Possibly, but who cares?
Are you a virgin in the sense that you haven't been potentially exposed to STDs or perhaps even gotten a girl pregnant? Not at all. And this seems like a much more important definition.
You need to come clean with her.
posted by vacapinta at 2:27 PM on July 9, 2007 [4 favorites]
Are you a virgin because you don't remember the sex? Possibly, but who cares?
Are you a virgin in the sense that you haven't been potentially exposed to STDs or perhaps even gotten a girl pregnant? Not at all. And this seems like a much more important definition.
You need to come clean with her.
posted by vacapinta at 2:27 PM on July 9, 2007 [4 favorites]
Give yourself a break and stop calling yourself a scumbag. But instinct tells me the "technically raped" terminology probably won't be a winner.
It may be that your girlfriend wants to lose her virginity to someone who has never had sex before. Or maybe she wants to lose her virginity to you. Either way it seems what you need is to find the courage to be honest and face any repercussions. If the situation was as you described it, she might sympathise. But to "pose" as something you're not (if she cares about it) seems a touch unfair.
posted by skylar at 2:28 PM on July 9, 2007
It may be that your girlfriend wants to lose her virginity to someone who has never had sex before. Or maybe she wants to lose her virginity to you. Either way it seems what you need is to find the courage to be honest and face any repercussions. If the situation was as you described it, she might sympathise. But to "pose" as something you're not (if she cares about it) seems a touch unfair.
posted by skylar at 2:28 PM on July 9, 2007
I think you should tell her the whole story. The "both being virgins" thing is probably important to her because she doesn't want to feel like you know a lot more or that she would be bad in comparison to previous girls (that's how I felt anyway). You don't really have a point of comparison since you don't remember doing the deed, so you still satisfy that requirement.
I would think the major issue with not telling her has nothing to do with technicalities and what you call yourself. The problem is that you are now potentially a health threat, since you've had previous partners. She deserves to know so that she can protect herself properly. It's got nothing to do with whether you wanted to lose your virginity earlier or not.
On preview... I'm seconding vacapinta.
posted by parkerjackson at 2:31 PM on July 9, 2007
I would think the major issue with not telling her has nothing to do with technicalities and what you call yourself. The problem is that you are now potentially a health threat, since you've had previous partners. She deserves to know so that she can protect herself properly. It's got nothing to do with whether you wanted to lose your virginity earlier or not.
On preview... I'm seconding vacapinta.
posted by parkerjackson at 2:31 PM on July 9, 2007
You lied about getting drunk and sleeping with another woman. You are screwed dude. Theres NO EXCUSE for this. You are trying to dig yourself out with the stupidest excuse ever heard. Just end this relationship, it wont work now that your trust is broken.
posted by wheelieman at 2:33 PM on July 9, 2007
posted by wheelieman at 2:33 PM on July 9, 2007
Wait.
Are you saying that you were raped?
Or are you saying that you got drunk and did something you regret doing, and now you're worried about how your girlfriend will respond, and it seems like rape will go over better than cheating?
I'm not sure you should be flinging "rape" around willy-nilly unless that's absolutely for certain what you mean. Call me old-fashioned and uptight if you want.
As for telling your girlfriend, if you value her right to choose how to protect her own health, it's probably a good idea to be honest.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 2:33 PM on July 9, 2007 [7 favorites]
Are you saying that you were raped?
Or are you saying that you got drunk and did something you regret doing, and now you're worried about how your girlfriend will respond, and it seems like rape will go over better than cheating?
I'm not sure you should be flinging "rape" around willy-nilly unless that's absolutely for certain what you mean. Call me old-fashioned and uptight if you want.
As for telling your girlfriend, if you value her right to choose how to protect her own health, it's probably a good idea to be honest.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 2:33 PM on July 9, 2007 [7 favorites]
One should always be responsible for his actions, whether intoxicated or not. You may not have taken responsibility for your actions, but now seems like a good time to start.
posted by MaHaGoN at 2:35 PM on July 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by MaHaGoN at 2:35 PM on July 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Wow. I have to say that you should be honest about not being a virgin, as you definitely had a sexual encounter.
If the girl you cheated on is the same partner you have now (and she seems to be if I am reading the "current girlfriend" right), you need to fess up about the whole thing and let her decide if she wants to go forward with this relationship. Losing her virginity is a big deal to her, and you of all people should respect that.
If she isn't the same girl, explaining that you had one completely physical encounter in the past that has bad memories for you, and so you still consider yourself a virgin, seems to me to be an acceptable way to proceed. She may well understand and be willing to move forward.
posted by misha at 2:35 PM on July 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
If the girl you cheated on is the same partner you have now (and she seems to be if I am reading the "current girlfriend" right), you need to fess up about the whole thing and let her decide if she wants to go forward with this relationship. Losing her virginity is a big deal to her, and you of all people should respect that.
If she isn't the same girl, explaining that you had one completely physical encounter in the past that has bad memories for you, and so you still consider yourself a virgin, seems to me to be an acceptable way to proceed. She may well understand and be willing to move forward.
posted by misha at 2:35 PM on July 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
dude, for real?
you got drunk, had sex. how do you know you didn't consent?
quit lying to your girlfriend. i'd be more pissed that you lied about it than the fact that you weren't a virgin.
posted by violetk at 2:36 PM on July 9, 2007
you got drunk, had sex. how do you know you didn't consent?
quit lying to your girlfriend. i'd be more pissed that you lied about it than the fact that you weren't a virgin.
posted by violetk at 2:36 PM on July 9, 2007
Was I technically raped since I didn't offer consent, was not in a right state of mind, and did not want to cheat on my girlfriend?
P.S. I know I'm a scumbag for cheating so no need to reiterate that point to me.
I'm confused--did you cheat on your girlfriend, or were you raped?
posted by box at 2:37 PM on July 9, 2007
P.S. I know I'm a scumbag for cheating so no need to reiterate that point to me.
I'm confused--did you cheat on your girlfriend, or were you raped?
posted by box at 2:37 PM on July 9, 2007
I think you should tell her. And yes, you were raped. But unless it is causing yourself undue psychological stress, you contracted an STD, or you think for any reason the girl raped you intentionally (i.e. she drugged you or knew you were blacked out and you were not capable of consenting), don't cause yourself pain by dwelling on it.
I'm kind of the opinion any time you have a random hook-up with a plastered person you haven't met before it's irresponsible, but I recognize that's a pretty fine line, one you may not agree with. If you feel she behaved irresponsibly, you may want to confront her. But if this issue is not an issue for you at all, then just let it be.
posted by Anonymous at 2:39 PM on July 9, 2007
I'm kind of the opinion any time you have a random hook-up with a plastered person you haven't met before it's irresponsible, but I recognize that's a pretty fine line, one you may not agree with. If you feel she behaved irresponsibly, you may want to confront her. But if this issue is not an issue for you at all, then just let it be.
posted by Anonymous at 2:39 PM on July 9, 2007
to the questions: No. Yes.
No: You weren't technically raped. You made poor decisions, and rationalizing it by saying you may have technically been raped is not only a copout, but tremendously unfair to the other party involved.
Yes: You're not a virgin. you don't need to tell anyone this unless they ask, but if they do and you say yes, you're lying.
posted by twiggy at 2:40 PM on July 9, 2007
No: You weren't technically raped. You made poor decisions, and rationalizing it by saying you may have technically been raped is not only a copout, but tremendously unfair to the other party involved.
Yes: You're not a virgin. you don't need to tell anyone this unless they ask, but if they do and you say yes, you're lying.
posted by twiggy at 2:40 PM on July 9, 2007
Eh, a caveat: Those who worship the idol of virginity may have different premises than I have. Grain of salt, dude.
The metaphysics of virginity are tenuous or imaginary. If there are absolutely no consequences of an event, then there's no difference between it and not-it. If you don't remember it and are disease-free, then there's almost nothing to differentiate you from a virgin, right?
I say that if you don't own the experience, then you're still a virgin.
posted by cmiller at 2:40 PM on July 9, 2007 [4 favorites]
The metaphysics of virginity are tenuous or imaginary. If there are absolutely no consequences of an event, then there's no difference between it and not-it. If you don't remember it and are disease-free, then there's almost nothing to differentiate you from a virgin, right?
I say that if you don't own the experience, then you're still a virgin.
posted by cmiller at 2:40 PM on July 9, 2007 [4 favorites]
Was I "technically" raped?
If you are serious (and I am not trying to suggest otherwise), you should probably seek counseling.
On the other hand, it seems to me like you're just trying to use "being raped" as an excuse for losing your virginity. But, don't worry - you are not a scumbag.
Seems like that was the only time you've had sex so far, unprotected or otherwise. You're into monogamy, which is a good thing.
If you are sure you don't have any kind of STD (get tested) I wouldn't worry about telling your girlfriend, unless you are going to marry her.
And that would be a bad idea.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:43 PM on July 9, 2007
If you are serious (and I am not trying to suggest otherwise), you should probably seek counseling.
On the other hand, it seems to me like you're just trying to use "being raped" as an excuse for losing your virginity. But, don't worry - you are not a scumbag.
Seems like that was the only time you've had sex so far, unprotected or otherwise. You're into monogamy, which is a good thing.
If you are sure you don't have any kind of STD (get tested) I wouldn't worry about telling your girlfriend, unless you are going to marry her.
And that would be a bad idea.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:43 PM on July 9, 2007
You're not a scumbag necessarily. Lots of people get drunk and do things they later regret. However keep in mind that for you to think anything like you were raped because of your not-very-consensual sex event, you'd be calling the girl you slept with a rapist. If both people are falling down drunk and have sex, most people don't call it rape (and I'm well aware there are high profile counterexamples) and if I were you I'd stop talking that way about it.
The next decision is what to tell your girlfriend. I had sex with a guy who I thought was a virgin back in the hippie days (I was not a virgin) and then I found out later that he wasn't, for almost exactly the same reason that you are outlining. It wasn't a huge deal. There was a certain amount of "oh, shucks" from me since I had thought "oh maybe this is a special thing that he'll remember forever" at the time and who knows, maybe he did? On the other hand there's something about it being the first time for BOTH OF YOU that might make it a bigger deal.
My gut feeling is that if the girl is awesome, she'll get that "I technically had sex but don't remember it and this is with you, it's special and I'm not even going to get totally trashed to do it" in the spirit that it's meant. That and the STD/health angle and I think you should find a nice way to fess up even if you're a little less than totally forthcoming about the details.
posted by jessamyn at 2:43 PM on July 9, 2007
The next decision is what to tell your girlfriend. I had sex with a guy who I thought was a virgin back in the hippie days (I was not a virgin) and then I found out later that he wasn't, for almost exactly the same reason that you are outlining. It wasn't a huge deal. There was a certain amount of "oh, shucks" from me since I had thought "oh maybe this is a special thing that he'll remember forever" at the time and who knows, maybe he did? On the other hand there's something about it being the first time for BOTH OF YOU that might make it a bigger deal.
My gut feeling is that if the girl is awesome, she'll get that "I technically had sex but don't remember it and this is with you, it's special and I'm not even going to get totally trashed to do it" in the spirit that it's meant. That and the STD/health angle and I think you should find a nice way to fess up even if you're a little less than totally forthcoming about the details.
posted by jessamyn at 2:43 PM on July 9, 2007
Virginity is in the eye of the beholder. There are people out there who say that they are virgins but have stuck parts of their bodies into various parts of other peoples' bodies and vice versa.
posted by k8t at 2:44 PM on July 9, 2007
posted by k8t at 2:44 PM on July 9, 2007
You should probably just bag the idea of tracking down whether or not you were "technically" raped. You are obligated to tell your girlfriend. You should use words that are less inflammatory than raped.
posted by Nabubrush at 2:44 PM on July 9, 2007
posted by Nabubrush at 2:44 PM on July 9, 2007
Be straight with her - she deserves to know, so she can make and fully educated decision on her part. Also - reverse the roles. If you found out after the fact (because the truth has a nasty habit of coming out, eventually) that your "virgin" girlfriend had actually gotten completely and totally wasted and apparently had sex with some other guy while you were out of town, how you would that make you feel? Would it make you feel any better when she told you that "it didn't count because I don't remember it"?. I doubt it. Tell her.
posted by cgg at 2:45 PM on July 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by cgg at 2:45 PM on July 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Ok as far as the rape thing goes that was more of a joke. I probably shouldn't have put that in there since I don't plan on saying that to anyone as an excuse ever.
And actually I was afraid that I had an STD when I had a rash down there that appeared about a month and a half later so I got tested. I am completely STD free. I have engaged in other sexual activity since then (but not actual intercourse) and my girlfriend knows this and is okay with this. We will of course be using protection (bc and condom just in case).
The girl I am with now is a new girl and not the one I cheated on. She knows I cheated on my past girlfriend and understands and is okay with that.
The thing is that when we first started going out I explained the entire story of me cheating (only I said we had oral sex instead of intercourse because I rememberd having oral sex but not vaginal) and when our relationship first started to become physical she told me she was a virgin and I said I was too.
Basically I want to tell her but I am afraid my white lie could actually be damaging at this point having kept it a secret for so long and ruin the relationship. Is is really wrong to keep up this lie when she knows everything else and I am sti-free and we are being careful?
posted by SeparatetheLabelD at 2:46 PM on July 9, 2007
And actually I was afraid that I had an STD when I had a rash down there that appeared about a month and a half later so I got tested. I am completely STD free. I have engaged in other sexual activity since then (but not actual intercourse) and my girlfriend knows this and is okay with this. We will of course be using protection (bc and condom just in case).
The girl I am with now is a new girl and not the one I cheated on. She knows I cheated on my past girlfriend and understands and is okay with that.
The thing is that when we first started going out I explained the entire story of me cheating (only I said we had oral sex instead of intercourse because I rememberd having oral sex but not vaginal) and when our relationship first started to become physical she told me she was a virgin and I said I was too.
Basically I want to tell her but I am afraid my white lie could actually be damaging at this point having kept it a secret for so long and ruin the relationship. Is is really wrong to keep up this lie when she knows everything else and I am sti-free and we are being careful?
posted by SeparatetheLabelD at 2:46 PM on July 9, 2007
Liz Wurtzel once said that one person date rape is a just another persons really bad night. Drunken rapes like this are a very fine line because consent is very unclear when individuals are incapcitated, and rape can become a matter of interpretation. Are you asking if you were raped because you feel violated or because you are looking for an excuse for your girlfriend?
posted by zia at 2:49 PM on July 9, 2007
posted by zia at 2:49 PM on July 9, 2007
Don't talk about it, ever again. You lied to her and if you come "clean", she might be put off and dump you. Just keep it your dirty secret.
posted by PowerCat at 2:55 PM on July 9, 2007
posted by PowerCat at 2:55 PM on July 9, 2007
Best answer: Look, you're still young. You had a party, you got a little wild, and you've told some randomers on the Internet about it. You've come to terms with the fact that you went way beyond what you were comfortable with and have changed - it seems as if you're really thinking each step of your relationship with this person through quite thoroughly and trying to communicate as best you can, and that's something to be praised.
I think your girlfriend would respect you for telling her something so personal that's obviously bothered you, and for being honest with her. However, keep in mind that to many people, "virginity" as a binary yes/no construct can be either sort of absurd or deadly serious, so think about how strongly your girlfriend will react to what happened depending on how you explain (or don't explain) it. I'm not saying that you should be dishonest, but you should definitely think about what she'll ask you and be ready to answer some questions about why you didn't tell her earlier (because it was painful/embarrassing/demeaning to your character as she perceived it at the time) and whether you've lied to her about anything else (no).
My final nugget of advice is to de-emphasize any "first time" elements of the preparations, because you both might end up creating a sense of impending OMGAMAZINGness that doesn't come to fruition for physical reasons beyond your control, which would be a shame. (The value of the first time is emotional, I guess, more than corporeal.) It would also probably be a good idea to have this discussion with her well before y'all do the deed, with lots of time for her to follow up is she wants to.
Good luck, have fun, be safe, and get off my lawn.
posted by mdonley at 2:56 PM on July 9, 2007
I think your girlfriend would respect you for telling her something so personal that's obviously bothered you, and for being honest with her. However, keep in mind that to many people, "virginity" as a binary yes/no construct can be either sort of absurd or deadly serious, so think about how strongly your girlfriend will react to what happened depending on how you explain (or don't explain) it. I'm not saying that you should be dishonest, but you should definitely think about what she'll ask you and be ready to answer some questions about why you didn't tell her earlier (because it was painful/embarrassing/demeaning to your character as she perceived it at the time) and whether you've lied to her about anything else (no).
My final nugget of advice is to de-emphasize any "first time" elements of the preparations, because you both might end up creating a sense of impending OMGAMAZINGness that doesn't come to fruition for physical reasons beyond your control, which would be a shame. (The value of the first time is emotional, I guess, more than corporeal.) It would also probably be a good idea to have this discussion with her well before y'all do the deed, with lots of time for her to follow up is she wants to.
Good luck, have fun, be safe, and get off my lawn.
posted by mdonley at 2:56 PM on July 9, 2007
On preview, I see this question has been answered as has the STD question. I suggest you keep it to yourself as this hardly qualifies as "experience".
posted by zia at 2:57 PM on July 9, 2007
posted by zia at 2:57 PM on July 9, 2007
This is confusing. You are overthinking things. You were drunk and don't even remember it, right? So your new girlfriend can't really "trust" your version of events, anyway. So move on. If you have sex with her, great, because you're officially clean, and she knows about your sordid history. But you now know that, never again, can you use the "I was drunk at the time" excuse.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:02 PM on July 9, 2007
posted by KokuRyu at 3:02 PM on July 9, 2007
Is is really wrong to keep up this lie when she knows everything else and I am sti-free and we are being careful?
Leaving aside the question of whether it's wrong, you seem bothered by keeping it secret. Maybe that should tell you something about yourself?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:08 PM on July 9, 2007
Leaving aside the question of whether it's wrong, you seem bothered by keeping it secret. Maybe that should tell you something about yourself?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:08 PM on July 9, 2007
Best answer: I don't think the OP is crazy for asking whether he was raped. Lots of women describe exactly the same situation by using the word "rape."
Personally I'd call it "taken advantage of." This assumes that the other party wasn't drunk and out-control as the OP was.
Should you fess up? Sure. In my book, disclosure is always better.
posted by alms at 3:16 PM on July 9, 2007
Personally I'd call it "taken advantage of." This assumes that the other party wasn't drunk and out-control as the OP was.
Should you fess up? Sure. In my book, disclosure is always better.
posted by alms at 3:16 PM on July 9, 2007
No: You weren't technically raped. You made poor decisions, and rationalizing it by saying you may have technically been raped is not only a copout, but tremendously unfair to the other party involved.Concur. Although I think the definition of "virgin" can be somewhat nebulous. You can say you are a 'virgin,' but ONLY if you immediately follow up and clarify that you did have a heavily chemically-altered sexual interaction, once upon a time, so that whoever is asking you doesn't make the normal assumptions about 'virginity,' namely that you probably don't have an STD, etc.
Yes: You're not a virgin. you don't need to tell anyone this unless they ask, but if they do and you say yes, you're lying.
You need to get tested for STDs before you get in bed with the new GF, by the way.
posted by Kadin2048 at 3:38 PM on July 9, 2007
If you come clean to your girlfriend, please, please do not mention anything about "rape" or "consent". You've made enough of a mess of the situation here with a bunch of strangers—imagine what she'll think? Do you really want to add this to all the disappointment and relationship altering info you're about to blast her with?
If you are still struggling with emotions concerning whether or not you were taken advantage of, please don't make it her problem. Deal with it separately.
I wish you the best of luck. Honesty is going to be the best thing here. If you think of what she needs to know, and the best way to present that to her, you're chances of a successful outcome will be greatly improved.
posted by iamkimiam at 3:39 PM on July 9, 2007
If you are still struggling with emotions concerning whether or not you were taken advantage of, please don't make it her problem. Deal with it separately.
I wish you the best of luck. Honesty is going to be the best thing here. If you think of what she needs to know, and the best way to present that to her, you're chances of a successful outcome will be greatly improved.
posted by iamkimiam at 3:39 PM on July 9, 2007
Best answer: i don't know if i'd call that rape at that age and with that age difference, whether it happened to a male or female. if you blacked out, you can't know if you consented, or even if SHE consented. it probably wouldn't count as statutory rape--i think most states require the age difference to be a few years, plus the eighteen-year-old cutoff. depends on where you are.
that said, i'd call it one of those horrible mistakes that we all make. trust me, you're not the first or last. i really do sympathize with how you feel--it does feel violating to wake up after having sex with someone you would not otherwise have slept with, even if you did say yes at the time. did she violate you? did you violate her? did you violate yourselves by engaging in something you never would have chosen to do sober? i think you'll never know, but you'll have to make your peace with it.
i would tell your girlfriend, just because honesty is always a good policy. i would, however, let her know that your first time was a drunken mess that you regret terribly, and that you are so glad that you met your girlfriend and that she is giving you this opportunity to have sex the way you always wanted and meant to--in trust, for love.
posted by thinkingwoman at 3:41 PM on July 9, 2007
that said, i'd call it one of those horrible mistakes that we all make. trust me, you're not the first or last. i really do sympathize with how you feel--it does feel violating to wake up after having sex with someone you would not otherwise have slept with, even if you did say yes at the time. did she violate you? did you violate her? did you violate yourselves by engaging in something you never would have chosen to do sober? i think you'll never know, but you'll have to make your peace with it.
i would tell your girlfriend, just because honesty is always a good policy. i would, however, let her know that your first time was a drunken mess that you regret terribly, and that you are so glad that you met your girlfriend and that she is giving you this opportunity to have sex the way you always wanted and meant to--in trust, for love.
posted by thinkingwoman at 3:41 PM on July 9, 2007
Never tell.
posted by Freedomboy at 3:50 PM on July 9, 2007
posted by Freedomboy at 3:50 PM on July 9, 2007
You are trying to dig yourself out with the stupidest excuse ever heard.
LOL.
But for real. Did she physically force you to have sex against your will? Doesn't sound like it--so you weren't raped. You got drunk and screwed some chick, and you know it. Alcohol + hot woman + bed = sex, whether you mean to do it or not. Which is why you avoid those situations in the future if you intend not to cheat.
posted by fusinski at 3:57 PM on July 9, 2007
LOL.
But for real. Did she physically force you to have sex against your will? Doesn't sound like it--so you weren't raped. You got drunk and screwed some chick, and you know it. Alcohol + hot woman + bed = sex, whether you mean to do it or not. Which is why you avoid those situations in the future if you intend not to cheat.
posted by fusinski at 3:57 PM on July 9, 2007
Is telling her really going to make her feel better or the situation? I think not. My advice, take it to the grave.
Shit happens and telling her will NOT improved your relationship in the slightest. There is no positive gain by telling her that you had sex with somebody else in the past. If you dont even remember the sex anyway then who cares.
Option A:
Tell her, potentially hurt her feelings and crush her. She will only see the betrayal of you with another woman and you lying to her about it. She will not understand that you didnt MEAN to put your dick in another woman. You didnt MEAN to wake up with her the next day. It was all a great big accident. Kiss your girlfriend and the sex you have been holding out for goodbye.
Option B:
Realize that you havent ever had sex and remembered it. Just forget about what happened before, and dont bring it up. Trust me she doesnt want to or need to know. Just be happy with what you got and dont fuck it up. If you really like this girl then she doesnt need to know.
posted by Tinen at 4:31 PM on July 9, 2007
Shit happens and telling her will NOT improved your relationship in the slightest. There is no positive gain by telling her that you had sex with somebody else in the past. If you dont even remember the sex anyway then who cares.
Option A:
Tell her, potentially hurt her feelings and crush her. She will only see the betrayal of you with another woman and you lying to her about it. She will not understand that you didnt MEAN to put your dick in another woman. You didnt MEAN to wake up with her the next day. It was all a great big accident. Kiss your girlfriend and the sex you have been holding out for goodbye.
Option B:
Realize that you havent ever had sex and remembered it. Just forget about what happened before, and dont bring it up. Trust me she doesnt want to or need to know. Just be happy with what you got and dont fuck it up. If you really like this girl then she doesnt need to know.
posted by Tinen at 4:31 PM on July 9, 2007
Tell her. You obviously still feel strongly about it, and if you keep it secret it's going to eat at you from the inside.
Once you get this story out in the open, and the woman you love has forgiven you for it and accepted you for the human being that you are, this incident is not going to be important any more.
posted by beandip at 4:59 PM on July 9, 2007
Once you get this story out in the open, and the woman you love has forgiven you for it and accepted you for the human being that you are, this incident is not going to be important any more.
posted by beandip at 4:59 PM on July 9, 2007
You made a mistake. Tell her about it. Otherwise you'll always feel guilty about it. It's really that simple.
posted by einarorn at 5:26 PM on July 9, 2007
posted by einarorn at 5:26 PM on July 9, 2007
Mod note: comment removed -- the OP clarified what he said about rape, please take additional rapetalking to email or MetaTalk
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:28 PM on July 9, 2007
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:28 PM on July 9, 2007
Yeah, you were arguably raped. If what you've said here was true, then I'm not gonna play a double-standard game and say that you weren't.
But, despite the histrionics that sometimes surround the word, not all rapes are equal (statutory, etc.) and you got off lightly. It may cause some discomfort to be honest about it, and you might not even feel comfortable using the word because you got off so lightly. Should you tell your girlfriend? Well, I'd tell mine, but I've been dating her for five years, and we didn't have any silly portentuous meaning attached to virginity when we met. So for you? Maybe just leave this little bit of ambiguity out of your conversations. You'll be a liar on some level, but hey, tu quoque, we all are.
posted by klangklangston at 5:35 PM on July 9, 2007
But, despite the histrionics that sometimes surround the word, not all rapes are equal (statutory, etc.) and you got off lightly. It may cause some discomfort to be honest about it, and you might not even feel comfortable using the word because you got off so lightly. Should you tell your girlfriend? Well, I'd tell mine, but I've been dating her for five years, and we didn't have any silly portentuous meaning attached to virginity when we met. So for you? Maybe just leave this little bit of ambiguity out of your conversations. You'll be a liar on some level, but hey, tu quoque, we all are.
posted by klangklangston at 5:35 PM on July 9, 2007
The metaphysics of virginity are tenuous or imaginary. If there are absolutely no consequences of an event, then there's no difference between it and not-it. If you don't remember it and are disease-free, then there's almost nothing to differentiate you from a virgin, right?
I say that if you don't own the experience, then you're still a virgin.
Okay, I attach ZERO importance to virginity, yet that's a really strange response to me. The issue isn't the virginity, it's the lie.
Let's say I'm dating a girl and she tells me it's important to her that we both open up the fridge each morning and pray to the cheese god. I agree to do it, even though I don't believe in the cheese god, but I don't do it. She asks me if I've been doing it, and I lie and say yes. I don't get a free pass. I'm a liar. It makes no difference that the subject of the lie is objectively absurd. The point it, it was important to my girlfriend, I knew it, yet I violated her trust.
Lying isn't the end of the world. Everyone does it at some point(s), but that doesn't make it right (or necessarily unforgivable). But let's call a spade a spade.
Was this wrong of me or was it alright to keep this from her?
I'm not going to tell you want to do. Honesty is best in most cases, but relationships are complex. But I will say this: if you decide to keep it a secret, you'd better be prepared and able to take it to the grave (or at least to the end of this relationship).
Most people get upset if you lie to them and then admit to the lie the next day. If you admit it a month later, they get even more upset. A year later, even more so. Five years later, WOW. They realize that you've been dishonest with them for years and years, and that feels really rotten.
So if you think there's a change that drunkeness or anger or guilt might one day make you blurt it out. If you think there's any chance she might work it out or if there's any chance someone who knows might tell her, it's not worth the risk. Take a deep breath and tell her now. Hopefully the two of you can work through it. But don't expect a pat on the head and a thanks for coming clean. Most people take time to get over a betrayal.
If I sound harsh, I don't mean to be. I don't think ill of you. Everyone screws up. What matters is not that we're perfect, but that we take responsibility for our mistakes. You are 100% responsible for everything you do, drunk or sober.
Unless the girl tied you down or held you at gunpoint, it makes no difference to your situation with your current girlfriend whether you label this rape or not. Again: you made a choice to get drunk (presumably knowing that intoxicated people do stupid things), so you are responsible for the outcome.
---
After that tirade, I feel stupid answering your question in a literal way, but maybe it was statutory rape. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know the law where you live, but isn't 17 a minor in most states? Isn't 18 an adult? Isn't an adult sleeping with a minor statutory rape? Maybe someone else here knows.
But honestly, whether it is or not is an academic point which has no baring on your lie to your girlfriend.
posted by grumblebee at 5:37 PM on July 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
I say that if you don't own the experience, then you're still a virgin.
Okay, I attach ZERO importance to virginity, yet that's a really strange response to me. The issue isn't the virginity, it's the lie.
Let's say I'm dating a girl and she tells me it's important to her that we both open up the fridge each morning and pray to the cheese god. I agree to do it, even though I don't believe in the cheese god, but I don't do it. She asks me if I've been doing it, and I lie and say yes. I don't get a free pass. I'm a liar. It makes no difference that the subject of the lie is objectively absurd. The point it, it was important to my girlfriend, I knew it, yet I violated her trust.
Lying isn't the end of the world. Everyone does it at some point(s), but that doesn't make it right (or necessarily unforgivable). But let's call a spade a spade.
Was this wrong of me or was it alright to keep this from her?
I'm not going to tell you want to do. Honesty is best in most cases, but relationships are complex. But I will say this: if you decide to keep it a secret, you'd better be prepared and able to take it to the grave (or at least to the end of this relationship).
Most people get upset if you lie to them and then admit to the lie the next day. If you admit it a month later, they get even more upset. A year later, even more so. Five years later, WOW. They realize that you've been dishonest with them for years and years, and that feels really rotten.
So if you think there's a change that drunkeness or anger or guilt might one day make you blurt it out. If you think there's any chance she might work it out or if there's any chance someone who knows might tell her, it's not worth the risk. Take a deep breath and tell her now. Hopefully the two of you can work through it. But don't expect a pat on the head and a thanks for coming clean. Most people take time to get over a betrayal.
If I sound harsh, I don't mean to be. I don't think ill of you. Everyone screws up. What matters is not that we're perfect, but that we take responsibility for our mistakes. You are 100% responsible for everything you do, drunk or sober.
Unless the girl tied you down or held you at gunpoint, it makes no difference to your situation with your current girlfriend whether you label this rape or not. Again: you made a choice to get drunk (presumably knowing that intoxicated people do stupid things), so you are responsible for the outcome.
---
After that tirade, I feel stupid answering your question in a literal way, but maybe it was statutory rape. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know the law where you live, but isn't 17 a minor in most states? Isn't 18 an adult? Isn't an adult sleeping with a minor statutory rape? Maybe someone else here knows.
But honestly, whether it is or not is an academic point which has no baring on your lie to your girlfriend.
posted by grumblebee at 5:37 PM on July 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Fessing up, and dealing with the fallout, is in my experience a far less stressful path than keeping schtum and living in fear that you will one day be found out.
The longer a lie is allowed to live, the worse the consequences of being found out are.
Your call.
posted by flabdablet at 5:53 PM on July 9, 2007
The longer a lie is allowed to live, the worse the consequences of being found out are.
Your call.
posted by flabdablet at 5:53 PM on July 9, 2007
Some people here are being so judgemental and plain mean. When sex happens when people are drunk and confused it can be difficult to figure out what was consensual and what wasn't. If you feel violated or that you were taken advantage of, I think that's perfectly fine. You don't need to "declare" yourself as a non-virgin or rape victim. What you do need to do, I think, is 'fess up and be honest with your sexual partners. Regardless of the presence of consent, this girl was a sexual partner and should be counted as such.
posted by sneakin at 7:20 PM on July 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by sneakin at 7:20 PM on July 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
It's a mushy area. If you feel that you were raped, then you probably were. Regardless, you should go and get tested for STD's. Then tell your girlfriend that you had sex once when you were very drunk, it was a mistake, you wouldn't have let if happen if you were sober and that you have been tested for STD's and are clean. Which, hopefully, you are,
posted by thebrokenmuse at 7:35 PM on July 9, 2007
posted by thebrokenmuse at 7:35 PM on July 9, 2007
I was dating a guy who told me he was a virgin. We slept together. Then he told me he wasn't actually a virgin before that after all.
He lied to me, and it really, really hurt my teenage self. I haven't really spoken to him since!
It was the fact that he deceived me that really bothered me, not the virginity thing.
If there is even a snowball's chance in hell that she will find out, and I think there is because you will probably get drunk one day and blurt it out, (plenty of stupid drunk moments left for you, I can tell! =P) just tell her sooner than later..like now.
posted by infinityjinx at 7:53 PM on July 9, 2007
He lied to me, and it really, really hurt my teenage self. I haven't really spoken to him since!
It was the fact that he deceived me that really bothered me, not the virginity thing.
If there is even a snowball's chance in hell that she will find out, and I think there is because you will probably get drunk one day and blurt it out, (plenty of stupid drunk moments left for you, I can tell! =P) just tell her sooner than later..like now.
posted by infinityjinx at 7:53 PM on July 9, 2007
Frankly, I can't believe the word 'rape' is being taken seriously here. It makes me want to throw up. I know you said that it was mostly a joke, but if you want to joke about rape then damnit, be funny. Don't kinda, sorta attach the word to yourself and then back away from it under the claim of 'joke' when people start rolling their eyes. If you were a woman and called that rape I couldn't take it seriously, and I would feel that you were committing an act of violence against your partner because you couldn't handle the feelings that accompanied your betrayal of yourself. Considering that you're a man and there was likely little or no atmosphere of menace or intimidation your use of the word is that much more inappropriate.
What should you tell your girlfriend? If you are looking at her with an eye to the long term consider telling her the truth before you go to bed and pick some time when you're alone but haven't recently been kissing. I understand if you don't tell her, it doesn't make you an unredeemable scumbag but do look at what you're giving up. First, I think it is much harder to build intimacy when you have to remember a lie. That automatically makes you a bit closed off and watching yourself. Then there is the possibility of a later overwhelming urge to tell, perhaps from inebriation or just feeling close. If you do so, her freaking the fuck out is entirely possible. It's also possible she'll back away from you now if you confess. There is no way to lay off all the risk. So think about how likely it is you'll go long term and how important intimacy is to you. If you think this girl has an expiration date, don't say a word. Calling yourself a virgin when you don't remember your sole sexual experience hardly makes you a master manipulator.
posted by BigSky at 9:57 PM on July 9, 2007
What should you tell your girlfriend? If you are looking at her with an eye to the long term consider telling her the truth before you go to bed and pick some time when you're alone but haven't recently been kissing. I understand if you don't tell her, it doesn't make you an unredeemable scumbag but do look at what you're giving up. First, I think it is much harder to build intimacy when you have to remember a lie. That automatically makes you a bit closed off and watching yourself. Then there is the possibility of a later overwhelming urge to tell, perhaps from inebriation or just feeling close. If you do so, her freaking the fuck out is entirely possible. It's also possible she'll back away from you now if you confess. There is no way to lay off all the risk. So think about how likely it is you'll go long term and how important intimacy is to you. If you think this girl has an expiration date, don't say a word. Calling yourself a virgin when you don't remember your sole sexual experience hardly makes you a master manipulator.
posted by BigSky at 9:57 PM on July 9, 2007
Ahem.
You've both lived for two years in a tale in which you've saved yourselves for one another. Now you're about to be eachother's firsts, in every way that matters.
Do you love this girl?
Does she love you?
Have you been faithful?
In every way that matters, when she looks in your eyes, does she see you? Do you see her, truly?
It matters. It really, genuinely does.
We all have demons in our past. Some people -- and those of you on this thread, you know exactly who you are -- are ... a bit lost ... they give no pause to the nature of your relationship with this girl, who have no question about how she might feel. It's black and white in their reality.
But you know what? In the real world, where we live, truth is not so absolute. Should you tell her? Should one lost night stand as a shining beacon against quite literally years and years of quiet moments, joyous and sad?
Just let it go. That was then, this is now. You may tell her someday. But you two have been living a genuine dream. I see no value to suffering the continued existence of an ancient nightmare.
posted by effugas at 3:46 AM on July 10, 2007
You've both lived for two years in a tale in which you've saved yourselves for one another. Now you're about to be eachother's firsts, in every way that matters.
Do you love this girl?
Does she love you?
Have you been faithful?
In every way that matters, when she looks in your eyes, does she see you? Do you see her, truly?
It matters. It really, genuinely does.
We all have demons in our past. Some people -- and those of you on this thread, you know exactly who you are -- are ... a bit lost ... they give no pause to the nature of your relationship with this girl, who have no question about how she might feel. It's black and white in their reality.
But you know what? In the real world, where we live, truth is not so absolute. Should you tell her? Should one lost night stand as a shining beacon against quite literally years and years of quiet moments, joyous and sad?
Just let it go. That was then, this is now. You may tell her someday. But you two have been living a genuine dream. I see no value to suffering the continued existence of an ancient nightmare.
posted by effugas at 3:46 AM on July 10, 2007
That being said, absolutely get tested. Even if it's been two years. When, someday you do tell her, she'll need to know you did check. If you didn't, you put her at risk, and then she'd indeed have every right to freak out on you. I'd kick your ass myself.
Speaking of such things, I assume you two have discussed birth control?
posted by effugas at 3:51 AM on July 10, 2007
Speaking of such things, I assume you two have discussed birth control?
posted by effugas at 3:51 AM on July 10, 2007
You can't really get tested for HPV, which you might have picked up in your "encounter", and which could eventually give this other woman throat or cervical cancer, since condoms don't do much.
So your lie creates a nonconsensual health risk for her. You can tell her your sexual history is not her business, and then she can make her decision on that basis, but it isn't ethical to expose her to health risks through misinformation so you can sleep with her.
posted by dgaicun at 12:00 PM on July 10, 2007
So your lie creates a nonconsensual health risk for her. You can tell her your sexual history is not her business, and then she can make her decision on that basis, but it isn't ethical to expose her to health risks through misinformation so you can sleep with her.
posted by dgaicun at 12:00 PM on July 10, 2007
Ok as far as the rape thing goes that was more of a joke.
I can't think of any situation where this would be a funny joke.
As to your GF, honesty is usually the best policy.
posted by yohko at 4:06 PM on July 10, 2007
I can't think of any situation where this would be a funny joke.
As to your GF, honesty is usually the best policy.
posted by yohko at 4:06 PM on July 10, 2007
If you decide to keep it a secret, you'd better be prepared and able to take it to the grave (or at least to the end of this relationship).
Just to be cynically pragmatic about this, the latter is the overwhelmingly more likely scenario in a strictly statistical sense. Most people don't end up in a really long term relationship with the first person they have sex, oops rather a sexual relationship with.
If you wanted to be wishy washy about it, and since she already knows about this encounter at least up to the point of the oral sex, is to tell her that you blacked out during parts of that night and you don't really know what happened (which is true, as far as it goes, if you truly don't remember the intercourse). If we're getting "technical" about it, the alleged sex is really just hearsay.
But if you think there's a snowball's chance of this relationship lasting you should really just come clean now, and deal with this potential conflict in your relationship now.
posted by nanojath at 12:46 PM on July 11, 2007
Just to be cynically pragmatic about this, the latter is the overwhelmingly more likely scenario in a strictly statistical sense. Most people don't end up in a really long term relationship with the first person they have sex, oops rather a sexual relationship with.
If you wanted to be wishy washy about it, and since she already knows about this encounter at least up to the point of the oral sex, is to tell her that you blacked out during parts of that night and you don't really know what happened (which is true, as far as it goes, if you truly don't remember the intercourse). If we're getting "technical" about it, the alleged sex is really just hearsay.
But if you think there's a snowball's chance of this relationship lasting you should really just come clean now, and deal with this potential conflict in your relationship now.
posted by nanojath at 12:46 PM on July 11, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by wheelieman at 2:27 PM on July 9, 2007