Advice re: fans and a/c to cool this large open space?
June 13, 2007 7:35 AM Subscribe
Cooling a large space. Specifics inside. General info on Air Conditioners/Fans also appreciated.
Recomended air conditioner brands/size/btu? Recommended fans/placement?
Here's the situation:
So I have a large open space, 900sf + 200sf loft. A rectangle.
On one wall (brick and south-facing) there is a large window, 3ft off the ground and 6ft high and 3ft wide.
On the opposite end of the unit is a 200sf sleeping loft that sits above the kitchen. The loft is about 8ft off the ground. Floors of it are plywood; all other floors in space are hardwood.
The one window, though large, has a weird opening. The top is fixed glass; the bottom is sliding and removable glass OR fixed (ie, non sliding) screen.
How the hell do I cool this space best so me and my dog don't pass out?
Thanks.
Recomended air conditioner brands/size/btu? Recommended fans/placement?
Here's the situation:
So I have a large open space, 900sf + 200sf loft. A rectangle.
On one wall (brick and south-facing) there is a large window, 3ft off the ground and 6ft high and 3ft wide.
On the opposite end of the unit is a 200sf sleeping loft that sits above the kitchen. The loft is about 8ft off the ground. Floors of it are plywood; all other floors in space are hardwood.
The one window, though large, has a weird opening. The top is fixed glass; the bottom is sliding and removable glass OR fixed (ie, non sliding) screen.
How the hell do I cool this space best so me and my dog don't pass out?
Thanks.
Response by poster: Also, A/Cs like this... can those tubes just be duct-taped out the window or what? What's the point of a portable A/C that can only be moved 2ft because of the tubes?
mkultra, I can install celing fans if I wish--my past experience with them isn't all positive though--I mostly find them rather useless and ugly. But I'm allowed to install them.
That is my only window.
Previous tenants insist they were fine with 3 fans and no a/c thru last summer (during a heatwave, too) which I'm finding hard to believe. Unfortunately, they're out of touch and I can't get the details on fans/placement and I suck at science shit like that.
posted by dobbs at 8:02 AM on June 13, 2007
mkultra, I can install celing fans if I wish--my past experience with them isn't all positive though--I mostly find them rather useless and ugly. But I'm allowed to install them.
That is my only window.
Previous tenants insist they were fine with 3 fans and no a/c thru last summer (during a heatwave, too) which I'm finding hard to believe. Unfortunately, they're out of touch and I can't get the details on fans/placement and I suck at science shit like that.
posted by dobbs at 8:02 AM on June 13, 2007
I was just talking about this with my friends who live in New Orleans- it's a fortune to run A/C constantly down there, obviously, so their method is to use A/C to cool down the temp initially, then use ceiling fans to keep the cool air circulating. Since you've got a loft and hot air rises, I think this would be especially key for you.
Also, A/Cs like this... can those tubes just be duct-taped out the window or what?
You can also run the tube to your sink/shower/tub. If you position it right, you can give your dog a steady (if low) trickle of fresh water to lap at (someone please verify that the water from those is pure- we had a dehumidifer growing up and the water was totally clean).
posted by mkultra at 8:28 AM on June 13, 2007
Also, A/Cs like this... can those tubes just be duct-taped out the window or what?
You can also run the tube to your sink/shower/tub. If you position it right, you can give your dog a steady (if low) trickle of fresh water to lap at (someone please verify that the water from those is pure- we had a dehumidifer growing up and the water was totally clean).
posted by mkultra at 8:28 AM on June 13, 2007
the bottom is sliding and removable glass OR fixed (ie, non sliding) screen.
So you can't have screen and glass installed at the same time? Very strange. If that's the case, get the whole window replaced with something more sensible, and make sure it includes a window that opens (with a screen) on top.
Also, because heat rises and you're sleeping in the hottest part of the space, and because you need an in and an out for air to circulate properly, you need another window. Can you knock a new window or two into the wall up in the loft section? Windows would be cheaper (in the long run, assuming you'll be there for the long run) than air conditioning, bright breezing silent windows are certainly more pleasant than noisy humming machines, and windows probably would increase the value of the space (so the landlord should be happy with the idea).
If you can't do the new window, decide that the place down near (under?) the window is where you sleep and spend most of your home waking hours. Save the loft for low-frequency stuff (storage, etc.).
And if your dog has long hair, give your dog a haircut.
posted by pracowity at 8:28 AM on June 13, 2007
So you can't have screen and glass installed at the same time? Very strange. If that's the case, get the whole window replaced with something more sensible, and make sure it includes a window that opens (with a screen) on top.
Also, because heat rises and you're sleeping in the hottest part of the space, and because you need an in and an out for air to circulate properly, you need another window. Can you knock a new window or two into the wall up in the loft section? Windows would be cheaper (in the long run, assuming you'll be there for the long run) than air conditioning, bright breezing silent windows are certainly more pleasant than noisy humming machines, and windows probably would increase the value of the space (so the landlord should be happy with the idea).
If you can't do the new window, decide that the place down near (under?) the window is where you sleep and spend most of your home waking hours. Save the loft for low-frequency stuff (storage, etc.).
And if your dog has long hair, give your dog a haircut.
posted by pracowity at 8:28 AM on June 13, 2007
The portability of portable AC is that you can move it from one window to another, not that you can move it around while it's running. Mostly they're useful when you can't easily balance an in-window AC in a window.
If you were in a non-loft type place you might move your portable AC from the living room during the day to the bedroom at night, instead of buying two in-window ACs.
Unless they specifically solve the "how to mount it in the window" problem they're probably not worth the (significant) extra cost for you.
I don't know anything about cooling a loft, though from time spent in lofts, industrial ceiling fans (and sometimes window-mounted fans) seem de rigeur. Even once you get cooling going on somewhere in the room you have to get that colder air dispersed.
You can also run the tube to your sink/shower/tub.
That makes no sense -- why run the air conditioner if you don't want to put the hot exhaust air outside?
posted by mendel at 8:30 AM on June 13, 2007
If you were in a non-loft type place you might move your portable AC from the living room during the day to the bedroom at night, instead of buying two in-window ACs.
Unless they specifically solve the "how to mount it in the window" problem they're probably not worth the (significant) extra cost for you.
I don't know anything about cooling a loft, though from time spent in lofts, industrial ceiling fans (and sometimes window-mounted fans) seem de rigeur. Even once you get cooling going on somewhere in the room you have to get that colder air dispersed.
You can also run the tube to your sink/shower/tub.
That makes no sense -- why run the air conditioner if you don't want to put the hot exhaust air outside?
posted by mendel at 8:30 AM on June 13, 2007
why run the air conditioner if you don't want to put the hot exhaust air outside?
Good point. Again, my experience is with just the dehumidifier aspect...
posted by mkultra at 8:33 AM on June 13, 2007
Good point. Again, my experience is with just the dehumidifier aspect...
posted by mkultra at 8:33 AM on June 13, 2007
Response by poster: I cannot add another window. It's a rental--and that's my only outward facing wall anyway. Nor can I really replace the window.
It's not convenient to sleep anywhere but the loft, unfortunately. What about multiple fans on the edge of the loft blowing that air out?
mendel, I started looking at those units because they seem to be more powerful.
posted by dobbs at 8:37 AM on June 13, 2007
It's not convenient to sleep anywhere but the loft, unfortunately. What about multiple fans on the edge of the loft blowing that air out?
mendel, I started looking at those units because they seem to be more powerful.
posted by dobbs at 8:37 AM on June 13, 2007
Response by poster: Oh, and the previous people had 3 long-haired cats and no reason to lie about cooling the place with 3 fans and no a/c.
posted by dobbs at 8:38 AM on June 13, 2007
posted by dobbs at 8:38 AM on June 13, 2007
I have seen units like the Haier in your link. The 2' tubes (that make it look like the Lost in Space robot) are where the cool air goes out, not the hot air. You point them to where you might want extra coolness.
For exhaust, I recall a long flexible tube exactly like a dryer exhaust, and it goes out through a similar opening. You'd have to cut a 6" or so hole to the outside.
posted by MtDewd at 8:44 AM on June 13, 2007
For exhaust, I recall a long flexible tube exactly like a dryer exhaust, and it goes out through a similar opening. You'd have to cut a 6" or so hole to the outside.
posted by MtDewd at 8:44 AM on June 13, 2007
Can you talk to your landlords about putting a vent in the roof? Blowing air into the the space is much more effective if it has somewhere to vent, preferably out the ceiling.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:38 AM on June 13, 2007
posted by oneirodynia at 9:38 AM on June 13, 2007
I have seen units like the Haier in your link. The 2' tubes (that make it look like the Lost in Space robot) are where the cool air goes out, not the hot air. You point them to where you might want extra coolness.
For exhaust, I recall a long flexible tube exactly like a dryer exhaust, and it goes out through a similar opening. You'd have to cut a 6" or so hole to the outside.
agree. we had one of these in our server closet at work (after having a couple of servers act funny when they were overheating). You need to 1) change the water tray in them (they generate water at a pretty decent clip) daily AND 2) vent them somewhere outside the room. This humorous note sums up how ACs work pretty well, and the particular problems you'd face in your situation. I get the idea that unless you can largely seal off the a/c exhaust, you're wasting your time.
I'm in much the same situation as you -- we live in a 1000 sq ft loftspace with only a single window (that tilts, so no window A/C for us either), and has skylights (one fan) that heat up the room like crazy. I'm constantly worried our pug is going to overheat. Personally, as long as I have a breeze I'm happy (so a decent fan seems to work for me), but I'm not sure how to cool the place down for our dog during the day while we're gone.
posted by fishfucker at 9:47 AM on June 13, 2007 [1 favorite]
hmm. that swamp cooler sounds perfect for us, considering we have california dry heat.
posted by fishfucker at 9:49 AM on June 13, 2007
posted by fishfucker at 9:49 AM on June 13, 2007
I have a 2100 sf loft with 16' ceilings, one main, large window that is 10ftx6ft and has a weird configuration, and a sleeping loft that is divided up into two bedrooms with enclosing walls. My roommate and I put one portable A/C in each of our bedrooms, venting out into the rest of the space at night for sleeping. We then keep the main window open (it has sliders on both sides) with fans blowing air out. (We also have an exhaust fan in the ceiling, which helps a lot.) This worked for sleeping but not for functioning during the day, so I had a ductless mini-split system installed in the main space. This involved cutting a 2" diameter hole in the exterior wall for the piping/wiring to run through, to connect the exterior unit to the interior. The mini-split is quiet and one large unit is enough to cool the entire space most of the time; if it gets over 100 degrees (which is known to happen in L.A.), we run both units.
This, compared with the summers when it hit 110 and we had nothing but a few fans, makes my cats much happier. The day one of them started panting (!) was the day we called the installer and had the A/C units put in.
posted by bedhead at 10:44 AM on June 13, 2007
This, compared with the summers when it hit 110 and we had nothing but a few fans, makes my cats much happier. The day one of them started panting (!) was the day we called the installer and had the A/C units put in.
posted by bedhead at 10:44 AM on June 13, 2007
Without air circulation, your sleeping area will never cool down. Industrial sized ceiling fans are step one. Perhaps two or three -- one certainly over the loft area, the others split over the body of the space. Keep the air moving.
Once the air is moving well, you may find your cooling needs lessened because moving air feels cooler than still air.
If you can clamp or screw a piece of 3/4" plywood to the window sill and neighboring wall and cut a hole in it, you can hang a large window mount AC out of nearly any window opening. Depending on how hot it gets and your tolerance for heat, somewhere between 7000 and 14000 BTU might do it. Look for one with a SEER of 11.5 or greater.
And you can take it all with you when you move.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:02 PM on June 13, 2007
Once the air is moving well, you may find your cooling needs lessened because moving air feels cooler than still air.
If you can clamp or screw a piece of 3/4" plywood to the window sill and neighboring wall and cut a hole in it, you can hang a large window mount AC out of nearly any window opening. Depending on how hot it gets and your tolerance for heat, somewhere between 7000 and 14000 BTU might do it. Look for one with a SEER of 11.5 or greater.
And you can take it all with you when you move.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:02 PM on June 13, 2007
mkultra writes "(someone please verify that the water from those is pure- we had a dehumidifer growing up and the water was totally clean)."
Condensate isn't potable. In theory it should be but bacteria and molds can grow on the plates because of the cyclic nature of an A/C's operation. Not the least of which is Legionnaires' disease.
posted by Mitheral at 7:44 PM on June 13, 2007
Condensate isn't potable. In theory it should be but bacteria and molds can grow on the plates because of the cyclic nature of an A/C's operation. Not the least of which is Legionnaires' disease.
posted by Mitheral at 7:44 PM on June 13, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Is that your only window?
posted by mkultra at 8:00 AM on June 13, 2007