To doublemajor or not to doublemajor?
June 4, 2007 7:11 AM Subscribe
I'm a math major, but dont know exactly what I want to do. Should I also major in Physics? Economics?
I've finished two years of college, and I'm almost done with my math major. I also plan on completing a minor in philosophy.
I don’t want to be a mathematician. Something under the broad category of "Economics" has always been what I could most easily see myself doing.
Last year, I became interested in econophysics specifically. It made me realize I could sell out, and end up in finance. Otherwise though, I'd like to do development work or somehow use my math skillz in an economic analysis context to help people. somehow.
The reason that I didn't study economics is that my school's econ department is pretty much acknowledged to be a big joke. I wouldn’t learn much. It would have been a waste.
Now comes the question: Many people I speak with say I should major in econ (This would be very difficult, and require summer school but doable) in order to have that on my resume, even if it wouldn't teach me anything.
AND
I am probably going to expand my 4 physics classes so far into a minor in physics (a field I love). This, along with a math major and philosophy minor, would keep me busy for the next two years, but still allow me to take interesting random classes (next semester I am taking printmaking!).
People (a lot of the same people) have told me I should major in physics. That is, double major, supposedly because nobody pays any attention to minors, and a double major is respected. This, however, would keep me from doing anything else for the next four years: I would have math, phys and philo minor, and that's it. No room to take fun classes that I enjoy, which is a big priority for me right now.
So, what’s the deal? How important is a doublemajor in physics to the kinds of things a math major interested in econ would be doing? How unimportant is a minor?
Please help!
I've finished two years of college, and I'm almost done with my math major. I also plan on completing a minor in philosophy.
I don’t want to be a mathematician. Something under the broad category of "Economics" has always been what I could most easily see myself doing.
Last year, I became interested in econophysics specifically. It made me realize I could sell out, and end up in finance. Otherwise though, I'd like to do development work or somehow use my math skillz in an economic analysis context to help people. somehow.
The reason that I didn't study economics is that my school's econ department is pretty much acknowledged to be a big joke. I wouldn’t learn much. It would have been a waste.
Now comes the question: Many people I speak with say I should major in econ (This would be very difficult, and require summer school but doable) in order to have that on my resume, even if it wouldn't teach me anything.
AND
I am probably going to expand my 4 physics classes so far into a minor in physics (a field I love). This, along with a math major and philosophy minor, would keep me busy for the next two years, but still allow me to take interesting random classes (next semester I am taking printmaking!).
People (a lot of the same people) have told me I should major in physics. That is, double major, supposedly because nobody pays any attention to minors, and a double major is respected. This, however, would keep me from doing anything else for the next four years: I would have math, phys and philo minor, and that's it. No room to take fun classes that I enjoy, which is a big priority for me right now.
So, what’s the deal? How important is a doublemajor in physics to the kinds of things a math major interested in econ would be doing? How unimportant is a minor?
Please help!
If physics is the field you love I think its a clear cut decision. You have an opportunity right now to buckle down and make some sacrifices for a few years to come out of it on the other side rewarded with an impressive and well respected degree.
Other than that you're looking at getting a college degree plain and simple...so the other approach is to take the easiest path you can to acheive it. (many employers simply look to see if a college degree is there, regardless of what what classes were actually taken). All in all it depends soley on what type of profession you want to line yourself up for once you graduate....a tough decision for anyone. It's a safe bet to pick an area you already love to study however.
As a computer enthusiast I started off thinking that Computer Science was a no brainer, but then realized that I absolutely hated analytical programming (more of a scripting person really). This is where I had to step back and reconsider...what type of setting do I enjoy the most? This is where I realized that I felt more suited for the business angle of computing rather than the scientific. Just take time to yourself, think hard on what kind of path your already moving towards...you should find an answer there.
posted by samsara at 7:27 AM on June 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Other than that you're looking at getting a college degree plain and simple...so the other approach is to take the easiest path you can to acheive it. (many employers simply look to see if a college degree is there, regardless of what what classes were actually taken). All in all it depends soley on what type of profession you want to line yourself up for once you graduate....a tough decision for anyone. It's a safe bet to pick an area you already love to study however.
As a computer enthusiast I started off thinking that Computer Science was a no brainer, but then realized that I absolutely hated analytical programming (more of a scripting person really). This is where I had to step back and reconsider...what type of setting do I enjoy the most? This is where I realized that I felt more suited for the business angle of computing rather than the scientific. Just take time to yourself, think hard on what kind of path your already moving towards...you should find an answer there.
posted by samsara at 7:27 AM on June 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
I don't have a B.S. but in talking with a lot of people who do, physics seems to be the most highly respected, closely followed by math, electrical engineering and computer science. I don't think you'll gain that much more prestige with an additional physics degree to go with the math. This is assuming that they are B.S. If you're getting a B.A. instead then making a change might be worthwhile.
People don't pay too much attention to minors unless it's relevant to your next step, like graduate school. If you don't have a career path firmly in mind I would suggest picking classes according to interest. If working in economics sounds good think about getting a masters. I don't think a major or even a minor would be required if you have a strong science background.
posted by BigSky at 7:47 AM on June 4, 2007
People don't pay too much attention to minors unless it's relevant to your next step, like graduate school. If you don't have a career path firmly in mind I would suggest picking classes according to interest. If working in economics sounds good think about getting a masters. I don't think a major or even a minor would be required if you have a strong science background.
posted by BigSky at 7:47 AM on June 4, 2007
When I was deciding which major to get, I liked to browse the list here of what people do with their math or math related degree. That's the American Mathematical Society's page, and some of the profiles are pretty old, but it's was very helpful to me. Another good resource is the Occupation Outlook Handbook. It'll tell you what you can expect to make in any particular field, and how much the job is expected to grow in the coming years. I think they also describe the common stuff people with job X do.
As for the degree, I've always heard that it's not as important what you get the degree in, as that you have a degree. Employers are generally just happy to see that a person has put in the time and effort necessary to get a degree. It shows an ability and willingness to learn. Depending on what job you decide to shoot for, you may or may not end up using all the physics formulas you will be forced to memorize. I think that most people, on the job, would say that they actually use very little of the specific information they learned in school as part of their daily job duties.
posted by philomathoholic at 8:12 AM on June 4, 2007
As for the degree, I've always heard that it's not as important what you get the degree in, as that you have a degree. Employers are generally just happy to see that a person has put in the time and effort necessary to get a degree. It shows an ability and willingness to learn. Depending on what job you decide to shoot for, you may or may not end up using all the physics formulas you will be forced to memorize. I think that most people, on the job, would say that they actually use very little of the specific information they learned in school as part of their daily job duties.
posted by philomathoholic at 8:12 AM on June 4, 2007
If you have enough mathematical maturity, don't bother with econ at the undergrad level - heck, my own econ profs tend to steer mathy types away from econ as a major. For a masters in econ, lots of decent schools see to prefer a more rigorous quantitative degree plus, at worst, first and second year micro/macro theory over a BA/BS in econ. Same goes for quant jobs, often enough.
posted by thisjax at 8:12 AM on June 4, 2007
posted by thisjax at 8:12 AM on June 4, 2007
I was a double major in Astrophysics and Math, and now am working on a Ph.D. in Physics.
In general, I'd say that the math I took was interesting and helpful, in the sense that taking math classes improves your problem-solving abilities and that general mathematical literacy is useful to a physicist. However, while classes like abstract algebra certainly have applications in physics, the work you do in that class is pretty different from the work you'd do if you you were solving a group theory problem in quantum. There's certainly transfer, but it's not one-to-one.
But I did the math major because I loved my math department and professors, and just enjoyed doing math. Not because I cared one way or the other about how it would help future prospects.
So the question is, what do you want to do? If you want to do math for a career, but really like physics, then it's probably not a bad idea. If you want to do physics -- grad school or a related career -- I think the physics major is absolutely essential. If you're not sure what you want to do, I'd say, take some physics classes, but don't commit to a major and close off other options that might be interesting to you, now or in the future.
I have many friends in finance/econ who all insist that there are excellent opportunities in the field for someone with a degree in math or physics, even if you weren't an econ major (although a few courses wouldn't hurt). So I wouldn't worry about that unless you want to pursue a Ph.D. in economics (in which case, yes, you need to major in econ.)
posted by dseaton at 8:14 AM on June 4, 2007
In general, I'd say that the math I took was interesting and helpful, in the sense that taking math classes improves your problem-solving abilities and that general mathematical literacy is useful to a physicist. However, while classes like abstract algebra certainly have applications in physics, the work you do in that class is pretty different from the work you'd do if you you were solving a group theory problem in quantum. There's certainly transfer, but it's not one-to-one.
But I did the math major because I loved my math department and professors, and just enjoyed doing math. Not because I cared one way or the other about how it would help future prospects.
So the question is, what do you want to do? If you want to do math for a career, but really like physics, then it's probably not a bad idea. If you want to do physics -- grad school or a related career -- I think the physics major is absolutely essential. If you're not sure what you want to do, I'd say, take some physics classes, but don't commit to a major and close off other options that might be interesting to you, now or in the future.
I have many friends in finance/econ who all insist that there are excellent opportunities in the field for someone with a degree in math or physics, even if you weren't an econ major (although a few courses wouldn't hurt). So I wouldn't worry about that unless you want to pursue a Ph.D. in economics (in which case, yes, you need to major in econ.)
posted by dseaton at 8:14 AM on June 4, 2007
You should take the courses you want to take -- if that ends up being enough physics for a second major, great, if not, no problem. If you're a strong math major with a good record in physics courses, you are going to be a great candidate for Ph.D. programs in economics; and getting an econ Ph.D. seems a natural route towards development work. You do not need to major in econ to go to econ graduate school, though you should certainly take some courses.
Also, if the econ situation at Yeshiva isn't thrilling, take advantage of the fact that you're an easy train ride from several world-class univerisities. I'll bet there are great seminars and courses at Columbia you could sit in on -- and if you end up forming a good relationship with faculty members there you'll have helped your resume much more than you would by an extra major!
posted by escabeche at 8:17 AM on June 4, 2007
Also, if the econ situation at Yeshiva isn't thrilling, take advantage of the fact that you're an easy train ride from several world-class univerisities. I'll bet there are great seminars and courses at Columbia you could sit in on -- and if you end up forming a good relationship with faculty members there you'll have helped your resume much more than you would by an extra major!
posted by escabeche at 8:17 AM on June 4, 2007
You haven't mentioned it at all in your post, but what about stats? It's incredibly employable, and having even a few classes in it would probably be helpful. It sort of seems that two majors might be more useful than a major and several minors.
Also: take what you want to take, if you love physics, do physics.
posted by dpx.mfx at 8:26 AM on June 4, 2007
Also: take what you want to take, if you love physics, do physics.
posted by dpx.mfx at 8:26 AM on June 4, 2007
Obviously much depends on what your inspiration is for a future career. If you're looking to set yourself up for a lucrative career then this should influence what your choices are. You may want to consider the actuarial field, certainly worth looking into. There is high level math, economics, accounting, finance and general problem solving. Can be a very lucrative and rewarding career, especially in the insurance industry.
An Associate level actuary (7 exams) in an international insurance centre (London, Bermuda) can easily make $250k per year in base salary. Can be a very challenging and rewarding (both financially and intellectually) career. There is also the academic element of publishing peer reviewed papers in the journals.
If you're interested you can start here
posted by snatchos at 8:33 AM on June 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
An Associate level actuary (7 exams) in an international insurance centre (London, Bermuda) can easily make $250k per year in base salary. Can be a very challenging and rewarding (both financially and intellectually) career. There is also the academic element of publishing peer reviewed papers in the journals.
If you're interested you can start here
posted by snatchos at 8:33 AM on June 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Are you looking into going straight into the work force, or grad school?
posted by Loto at 10:57 AM on June 4, 2007
posted by Loto at 10:57 AM on June 4, 2007
Response by poster: very helpful stuff guys, thanks for the advice. I'm
leaning toward grad school, but nothing for certain yet.
posted by milestogo at 11:57 AM on June 4, 2007
leaning toward grad school, but nothing for certain yet.
posted by milestogo at 11:57 AM on June 4, 2007
Most jobs you can get with an undergraduate degree in economics can also be had with one in math. True economists (of any fashion) are usually pulled from beyond graduate school, and, generally speaking an undergraduate math major is more exciting to graduate admissions programs in economics than someone with a BA or BS in economics.
If you want to boost your chances of getting into a top development graduate program, here is the recipe: multivariate calculus, statistics (econometrics if at all possible), and some economics--perhaps a course in basic micro and one in intermediate micro based on multivariate calculus. Combine it with some experience abroad in a developing area, even just for a summer, to show your commitment and interest. Wrap it together with strong quantitative test scores (GRE) and a decent ability to reflect on why you want to do development, and you're in.
posted by shiwsup at 1:16 PM on June 8, 2007
If you want to boost your chances of getting into a top development graduate program, here is the recipe: multivariate calculus, statistics (econometrics if at all possible), and some economics--perhaps a course in basic micro and one in intermediate micro based on multivariate calculus. Combine it with some experience abroad in a developing area, even just for a summer, to show your commitment and interest. Wrap it together with strong quantitative test scores (GRE) and a decent ability to reflect on why you want to do development, and you're in.
posted by shiwsup at 1:16 PM on June 8, 2007
Just found this question. In case you're still undecided, some thoughts:
(1) I agree with some of the comments above concerning the usefulness of statistics and econometrics. Regardless of whether you ultimately end up in development economics, in physics, or in some other field, skills in statistics and econometrics will prove valuable.
(2) You say your school is not strong in economics and this is making you hesitant about taking courses in the subject. I'd say:
- It doesn't take a Nobel laureate to deliver a decent course in introductory macro and micro.
- A course is what you make of it. If it's pitched at a level that's too basic you can always supplement your readings.
- If you don't take any economics as an udergrad, how will you know if you really want to spend 2-5 years of grad school studying economics?
(3) I think the issue of majors and minors is somewhat irrelevant. The question is what courses you take and what demonstrable skills you acquire.
posted by gbognar at 12:10 PM on June 27, 2007
(1) I agree with some of the comments above concerning the usefulness of statistics and econometrics. Regardless of whether you ultimately end up in development economics, in physics, or in some other field, skills in statistics and econometrics will prove valuable.
(2) You say your school is not strong in economics and this is making you hesitant about taking courses in the subject. I'd say:
- It doesn't take a Nobel laureate to deliver a decent course in introductory macro and micro.
- A course is what you make of it. If it's pitched at a level that's too basic you can always supplement your readings.
- If you don't take any economics as an udergrad, how will you know if you really want to spend 2-5 years of grad school studying economics?
(3) I think the issue of majors and minors is somewhat irrelevant. The question is what courses you take and what demonstrable skills you acquire.
posted by gbognar at 12:10 PM on June 27, 2007
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I've heard it said that if you put all the economists in the world end to end, you wouldn't reach a conclusion. It's spongy as hell and has (ick!) human factors in it. Sure, it's got its fascinating points... and there ARE Nobel prizes awarded for economics, but.... it's like measuring pasta with a micrometer.... full of approximations and generalizations that attempt to imitate precision where precision just does not apply.
Physics/math is saleable and constantly of value in everyday career and life. Economics less so.
Why not consider math/physics as primary, and econ as a nice minor diversion? After graduation, you can choose from a variety of possibilities and I personally believe you'd be limited going the other way.
(btw.... me=ee/cs + mba-econ)
posted by FauxScot at 7:27 AM on June 4, 2007 [1 favorite]