Is Carbon Fiber really worth the cost of a new bike?
June 2, 2007 8:53 PM Subscribe
Is a carbon fiber road frame worth the extra expense? I mean I've read loads of pros and cons but does it come down to a slight difference or a major one? I love to go on 15-30 mile rides but I'd like to increase my comfort levels (got a proper fitting and new seat/post so far).
I don't want to start an aluminum vs. carbon fiber flamewar, but my current bike is a ~$1,000 low end Trek with an aluminum frame and carbon fork and seatpost. I feel a lot of road vibration in my bars that I'd love to smooth out.
When I read about carbon fiber, usually first time riders say it feels like a dream compared to aluminum. I'm trying to judge if it's worth pulling the trigger and getting a ~$2,500 carbon bike (and selling my old one) or if the difference isn't so great and may just be a mental thing that people think is so much better.
I don't want to start an aluminum vs. carbon fiber flamewar, but my current bike is a ~$1,000 low end Trek with an aluminum frame and carbon fork and seatpost. I feel a lot of road vibration in my bars that I'd love to smooth out.
When I read about carbon fiber, usually first time riders say it feels like a dream compared to aluminum. I'm trying to judge if it's worth pulling the trigger and getting a ~$2,500 carbon bike (and selling my old one) or if the difference isn't so great and may just be a mental thing that people think is so much better.
You may want to read Sheldon Brown on this topic.
And b1tr0t, you can get steel bikes. I actually have one bought only a week ago, brand new (Bianchi San Jose, but they make other bikes with the same frame). It's made of Chromoly steel.
posted by R343L at 9:09 PM on June 2, 2007
And b1tr0t, you can get steel bikes. I actually have one bought only a week ago, brand new (Bianchi San Jose, but they make other bikes with the same frame). It's made of Chromoly steel.
posted by R343L at 9:09 PM on June 2, 2007
If you want to damp vibration in your front wheel, consider getting a slightly wider tire or use a slightly lower pressure in your current tire. You've already got a carbon fiber fork - I don't think making the rest of the bike carbon fiber will do much for you.
I'm not sold on carbon fiber for anything. All the horror stories I've heard involve carbon fiber failing catastrophically - front wheel gets stuck, carbon fiber fork shatters, rider gets massive facial damage. Carbon fiber seatpost shears off, rider impales self on tube. I've seen crashes where the bike breaks at the fork/head tube area, and it's a total loss.
Myself, I've crashed a lugged steel bike, managed to bend the downtube. The frame would still be ridable if not for the twisted front wheel. Shipped the bike back to the builder, new tube brazed into place, good as new. Can't do that with carbon fiber (or even aluminium). Note that this steel bike costs more than your normal carbon fiber bike and probably weighs only a little bit more.
posted by meowzilla at 9:40 PM on June 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm not sold on carbon fiber for anything. All the horror stories I've heard involve carbon fiber failing catastrophically - front wheel gets stuck, carbon fiber fork shatters, rider gets massive facial damage. Carbon fiber seatpost shears off, rider impales self on tube. I've seen crashes where the bike breaks at the fork/head tube area, and it's a total loss.
Myself, I've crashed a lugged steel bike, managed to bend the downtube. The frame would still be ridable if not for the twisted front wheel. Shipped the bike back to the builder, new tube brazed into place, good as new. Can't do that with carbon fiber (or even aluminium). Note that this steel bike costs more than your normal carbon fiber bike and probably weighs only a little bit more.
posted by meowzilla at 9:40 PM on June 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Modern CF doesn't fail nearly as often or as badly (though it's still a total loss) as the first generation stuff did. That's largely a memory now. Moreover, most manufacturers will replace such failed frames if it's not due to gross negligence on your part (racing, endo, etc.).
I have a full-carbon bike with full Dura-Ace, and it's smooth as butter. It's also a PITA when it comes to maintenance - I need to swap seatposts to clamp it into the stand, need to inspect once in awhile for pre-failure nicks, etc. I also have a steel single/fixed and while it's nowhere near as smooth, a lot of that has to do with the geometry.
I'd say that if it fits, the frame is usually the last of your worries for the casual rider. Upgrading to at least Ultegra-level components and a decent wheelset will buy you a lot of "comfort" over cheaper parts. Dura-Ace is overkill, but it came with the bike (used) in my case, so, no complaints.
You may find a lot of your comfort may be due to your stem being way short and making the steering twitchy, e.g. There's a lot of jiggering you can do to a bike to smooth out the rough bits. I don't think it's worth it in your case to drop the money on a full carbon frame, though, carbon stays + fork are not a bad idea and you can find them on a lot of the mid-level bikes that you'll also find an Ultegra group on.
posted by kcm at 10:28 PM on June 2, 2007
I have a full-carbon bike with full Dura-Ace, and it's smooth as butter. It's also a PITA when it comes to maintenance - I need to swap seatposts to clamp it into the stand, need to inspect once in awhile for pre-failure nicks, etc. I also have a steel single/fixed and while it's nowhere near as smooth, a lot of that has to do with the geometry.
I'd say that if it fits, the frame is usually the last of your worries for the casual rider. Upgrading to at least Ultegra-level components and a decent wheelset will buy you a lot of "comfort" over cheaper parts. Dura-Ace is overkill, but it came with the bike (used) in my case, so, no complaints.
You may find a lot of your comfort may be due to your stem being way short and making the steering twitchy, e.g. There's a lot of jiggering you can do to a bike to smooth out the rough bits. I don't think it's worth it in your case to drop the money on a full carbon frame, though, carbon stays + fork are not a bad idea and you can find them on a lot of the mid-level bikes that you'll also find an Ultegra group on.
posted by kcm at 10:28 PM on June 2, 2007
Best answer: It wouldn't hurt to get thee to a bike shop and to try a couple of the carbon bikes on a bumpy road. Then do the same with a couple of steel bikes.
I've ridden on many steel, aluminum and carbon frames and I've found that comfort depends on many more factors than the material alone.
IMO, tube diameter, seat tube angle, and overall frame geometry contribute more to the smoothness of the ride than anything else. For example, the aluminum bike that I own right now is actually a lot more cofortable than the carbon bikes that I've tried. On the other hand, I've also ridden on really stiff aluminum frames that were cheaply made.
Ultimately let the road (and then the wallet) guide you to the truth. Go out and test out some bikes. It really isn't that useful to have a conversation about materials because it's only one of many factors that affects overall ride comfort.
posted by |n$eCur3 at 10:32 PM on June 2, 2007
I've ridden on many steel, aluminum and carbon frames and I've found that comfort depends on many more factors than the material alone.
IMO, tube diameter, seat tube angle, and overall frame geometry contribute more to the smoothness of the ride than anything else. For example, the aluminum bike that I own right now is actually a lot more cofortable than the carbon bikes that I've tried. On the other hand, I've also ridden on really stiff aluminum frames that were cheaply made.
Ultimately let the road (and then the wallet) guide you to the truth. Go out and test out some bikes. It really isn't that useful to have a conversation about materials because it's only one of many factors that affects overall ride comfort.
posted by |n$eCur3 at 10:32 PM on June 2, 2007
Go test ride and see for yourself. Some of it is real, some of it is the placebo effect.
posted by randomstriker at 10:33 PM on June 2, 2007
posted by randomstriker at 10:33 PM on June 2, 2007
Firstly, the answer to the question: "Should I spend a pile of money on a shiny new bike?" is always yes.
As for CF/Al/Ti/Steel, there have been countless online flamewars on their properties. In my opinion, these days a decent manufacturer can make Al or CF ride pretty much how they want. They can make either stiff or compliant, and certainly some CF frames are stiff as hell. Just test ride some bikes, and if you like how a CF one rides, get it, if you like how an Al one rides, get that instead.
Hell you'd probably get more comfort out of running 27mm tyres instead of 23mm or whatever you're running now. But buy a new bike anyway.
posted by markr at 4:52 AM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
As for CF/Al/Ti/Steel, there have been countless online flamewars on their properties. In my opinion, these days a decent manufacturer can make Al or CF ride pretty much how they want. They can make either stiff or compliant, and certainly some CF frames are stiff as hell. Just test ride some bikes, and if you like how a CF one rides, get it, if you like how an Al one rides, get that instead.
Hell you'd probably get more comfort out of running 27mm tyres instead of 23mm or whatever you're running now. But buy a new bike anyway.
posted by markr at 4:52 AM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'd say that if it fits, the frame is usually the last of your worries for the casual rider. Upgrading to at least Ultegra-level components and a decent wheelset will buy you a lot of "comfort" over cheaper parts. Dura-Ace is overkill, but it came with the bike (used) in my case, so, no complaints.
I would say that, for someone that is not racing, Shimano 105 is a great choice. You don't need Ultegra, and you definitely don't need Dura-Ace. The last few years' worth of 105 is 10 speed like its big brothers, and is pretty much the Dura-Ace of a few years ago. Once you go above 105, the difference isn't so much in quality as it is in weight, and that difference is small.
That said, you should definitely get a new bike. I just upgraded from my $900 road bike to a ~$2500 one, and it was WAY worth it. I agree with all of the posters that said to ride ride ride and test ride some more. What ultimately convinced me of the right bike for me was the ride. I rode CF, aluminum, and steel bikes all within a few days of each other. Truth be told, I liked aluminum the most of all of them, and now I have an aluminum bike with CF seat stays.
One thing to consider, if you have a little more $$$ to spend, or if you get a bike for less than your $2500 limit (which, if you get a bike with 105, shouldn't be hard to do): ditch the stock wheels ASAP and get a set of handbuilt ones. The wheels are the one place that bike manufacturers can and do easily spec lowest-grade parts. If you get some 105 hubs with Mavic Open Pro or Velocity Aerohead rims laced together with double-butted spokes made by a good wheelbuilder, your ride will be dramatically improved. You could probably sell your stock wheels if they're a name brand (Bontrager, Mavic, Fulcrum) and make up about half the new wheel built, too.
posted by The Michael The at 5:47 AM on June 3, 2007
I would say that, for someone that is not racing, Shimano 105 is a great choice. You don't need Ultegra, and you definitely don't need Dura-Ace. The last few years' worth of 105 is 10 speed like its big brothers, and is pretty much the Dura-Ace of a few years ago. Once you go above 105, the difference isn't so much in quality as it is in weight, and that difference is small.
That said, you should definitely get a new bike. I just upgraded from my $900 road bike to a ~$2500 one, and it was WAY worth it. I agree with all of the posters that said to ride ride ride and test ride some more. What ultimately convinced me of the right bike for me was the ride. I rode CF, aluminum, and steel bikes all within a few days of each other. Truth be told, I liked aluminum the most of all of them, and now I have an aluminum bike with CF seat stays.
One thing to consider, if you have a little more $$$ to spend, or if you get a bike for less than your $2500 limit (which, if you get a bike with 105, shouldn't be hard to do): ditch the stock wheels ASAP and get a set of handbuilt ones. The wheels are the one place that bike manufacturers can and do easily spec lowest-grade parts. If you get some 105 hubs with Mavic Open Pro or Velocity Aerohead rims laced together with double-butted spokes made by a good wheelbuilder, your ride will be dramatically improved. You could probably sell your stock wheels if they're a name brand (Bontrager, Mavic, Fulcrum) and make up about half the new wheel built, too.
posted by The Michael The at 5:47 AM on June 3, 2007
If you're talking about 15-30 mile rides, then I think you can be much more cost effective with comfort by focusing on decent gloves and clothing (like a good set of bib shorts, perhaps), a good saddle (classic like a brooks? or modern like a selle italia slr?), and a fitting to make sure that you're where you should be on your bike. To increase comfort, you simply do not have to drop big coin on a carbon fiber or ti frame.
However, since this is a big choice, definitely definitely ride other bikes to see what you're looking for, what will satisfy your current. dissatisfactions.
posted by entropone at 6:34 AM on June 3, 2007
However, since this is a big choice, definitely definitely ride other bikes to see what you're looking for, what will satisfy your current. dissatisfactions.
posted by entropone at 6:34 AM on June 3, 2007
Instead of spending that much money on a carbon fiber frame, why don't you take that money and treat yourself to a movie a week for the next year?
Aluminum with a steel fork works fine for me.
posted by BeaverTerror at 6:43 AM on June 3, 2007
Aluminum with a steel fork works fine for me.
posted by BeaverTerror at 6:43 AM on June 3, 2007
I have been convinced that carbon fiber ages significantly every time it flexes, as does aluminum to a much lesser degree. Steel on the other hand, can flex a million times with very little measurable change in springiness. Just imagine how well a coil spring made of carbon fiber or aluminum would last.
I think there is a significant safety issue with carbon, too. I have had three very serious collisions with cars. On at least two of these occasions, I would have ended up underneath these cars if the frame had broken as carbon would have, instead of rolling over the car from front to back and landing in the street in one case, and smashing the windshield and being pitched fifteen feet onto the parking strip in the other.
posted by jamjam at 8:37 AM on June 3, 2007
I think there is a significant safety issue with carbon, too. I have had three very serious collisions with cars. On at least two of these occasions, I would have ended up underneath these cars if the frame had broken as carbon would have, instead of rolling over the car from front to back and landing in the street in one case, and smashing the windshield and being pitched fifteen feet onto the parking strip in the other.
posted by jamjam at 8:37 AM on June 3, 2007
If you are only riding 15-20 miles at a time I cannot see the justification in purchasing a 2500 dollar bike, that seems like a bit of an overkill. Get a carbon fiber fork, and that should make a big difference without breaking the bank, otherwise go steel.
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:56 AM on June 3, 2007
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:56 AM on June 3, 2007
If you're buying for longevity, certainly steel is the best choice. Serious riders and racers see frames and even overall componentry as having a limited life. I bought my bike from someone that put 6k miles on it in one year, and will do the same with the bike he replaced it with, and so on. These people are very concerned with the actual numerical values of flex of the bottom bracket shells, etc., across any given frame and material. Their power meters, installed into the hubs on the wheels, cost more than most bikes ever discussed on AskMe. Thus, material holds no intrinsic value adjustment for them with respect to lifespan.
I've never heard of someone getting run over by a car because their frame broke in half versus not. I'm sure it could happen, of course. Carbon will and does break in a different manner than other materials. It is a tradeoff. However, as I said before, modern CF has a lot less of the old issues and honestly, if you are in the habit of being hit by cars often enough to dictate your material choice thus.. maybe it's not for you after all. My bombproof all-around city bike has 32-spoke lacing, a steel frame, one gear, and a mountain bike crankset. :)
God, if you're so close to Portland, just get Vanilla to build you something. It'll be four years before you see it, but it'll be the prettiest thing in the world when it's done. And it is a good point made above about your tires and tubes. I still say Ultegra is the price point to be considering given the price range stated and the idea of looking at CF. 105 is not a bad choice, but the feel vs. price of Ultegra is worth it to me - YMMV as always.
posted by kcm at 9:02 AM on June 3, 2007
I've never heard of someone getting run over by a car because their frame broke in half versus not. I'm sure it could happen, of course. Carbon will and does break in a different manner than other materials. It is a tradeoff. However, as I said before, modern CF has a lot less of the old issues and honestly, if you are in the habit of being hit by cars often enough to dictate your material choice thus.. maybe it's not for you after all. My bombproof all-around city bike has 32-spoke lacing, a steel frame, one gear, and a mountain bike crankset. :)
God, if you're so close to Portland, just get Vanilla to build you something. It'll be four years before you see it, but it'll be the prettiest thing in the world when it's done. And it is a good point made above about your tires and tubes. I still say Ultegra is the price point to be considering given the price range stated and the idea of looking at CF. 105 is not a bad choice, but the feel vs. price of Ultegra is worth it to me - YMMV as always.
posted by kcm at 9:02 AM on June 3, 2007
I feel a lot of road vibration in my bars that I'd love to smooth out.
If this is the deciding factor for you, know that frame material won't make a whit of difference. I've ridden steel bikes, aluminum bikes and fibre bikes. Frame material only changes the bikes weight. I have never found a comfort difference because of frame material. R343L's link to Sheldon Brown's article explains the materials science very well.
Fit, your riding position and tires are the most important variables you change.
1. Fit you are handling. Frame geometry has a huge effect on ride comfort, and should be considered carefully if and when you buy. It's hard to impossible to compensate for an uncomfortable frame shape.
2. You probably ride with too much weight on your hands. Most people do. The majority of your weight should transmit to the frame through your sit bones and your feet. You should not be supporting your upper body with your arms. Arms are for steering only. Here's a practice: you should be able to pick your hands up off the bars at ANY point and continue riding WITHOUT CHANGING YOUR POSITION. No sitting up. (I'm assuming a standard upright bike here: I don't know how this works on a recumbent). If you can do this, I guarantee you that hand pain and numbness will cease.
3. The best shock absorbers on a road bike (after your knees) are the tires. Get slick tires. Road bike tires should never have a tread. Treads on road tires simply cause elastic losses and induce vibration. You go slower and your hands buzz. Get bigger tires. Unless you're racing, there's little reason to ride anything under a 25mm tires, and I'd even say under a 28mm. A good friend of mine wrecked his back riding 21mm tires. He's so bad now that he can't ride more than 10km without having to quit for the day. Going to slicks at 28mm or even 32mm will make a huge difference to your ride quality.
posted by bonehead at 9:16 AM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
If this is the deciding factor for you, know that frame material won't make a whit of difference. I've ridden steel bikes, aluminum bikes and fibre bikes. Frame material only changes the bikes weight. I have never found a comfort difference because of frame material. R343L's link to Sheldon Brown's article explains the materials science very well.
Fit, your riding position and tires are the most important variables you change.
1. Fit you are handling. Frame geometry has a huge effect on ride comfort, and should be considered carefully if and when you buy. It's hard to impossible to compensate for an uncomfortable frame shape.
2. You probably ride with too much weight on your hands. Most people do. The majority of your weight should transmit to the frame through your sit bones and your feet. You should not be supporting your upper body with your arms. Arms are for steering only. Here's a practice: you should be able to pick your hands up off the bars at ANY point and continue riding WITHOUT CHANGING YOUR POSITION. No sitting up. (I'm assuming a standard upright bike here: I don't know how this works on a recumbent). If you can do this, I guarantee you that hand pain and numbness will cease.
3. The best shock absorbers on a road bike (after your knees) are the tires. Get slick tires. Road bike tires should never have a tread. Treads on road tires simply cause elastic losses and induce vibration. You go slower and your hands buzz. Get bigger tires. Unless you're racing, there's little reason to ride anything under a 25mm tires, and I'd even say under a 28mm. A good friend of mine wrecked his back riding 21mm tires. He's so bad now that he can't ride more than 10km without having to quit for the day. Going to slicks at 28mm or even 32mm will make a huge difference to your ride quality.
posted by bonehead at 9:16 AM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
(heck, my town bike has Nimbus 38mm tires on it, and it's by far the most comfortable ride I own).
posted by bonehead at 9:22 AM on June 3, 2007
posted by bonehead at 9:22 AM on June 3, 2007
honestly, if you are in the habit of being hit by cars often enough to dictate your material choice thus.. maybe it's not for you after all.
If you are the kind of cyclist who feels the need to deny his or her own vulnerability on the road by attempting to belittle those who have crashes, you have a lot more serious issues to worry about than choice of frame materials-- honestly.
posted by jamjam at 9:46 AM on June 3, 2007
If you are the kind of cyclist who feels the need to deny his or her own vulnerability on the road by attempting to belittle those who have crashes, you have a lot more serious issues to worry about than choice of frame materials-- honestly.
posted by jamjam at 9:46 AM on June 3, 2007
Assuming you're not out to win a race, the next best thing to increase comfort after a good fit is your tire choice. There's a lot of myth and misunderstanding in bicycle-land about tires. In short: Tires aren't faster the harder you pump them and aren't necessarily faster the thinner they are. Road bike makers and sellers would have one believe that the riding anything fatter than 25mm makes you a pseudo-cyclist and a wuss, or something. Get a wider tire (28mm is a nice compromise choice), inflate it firmly, but not rock-hard, and marvel at how much pleasanter it is to ride, whilst only paying a tiny cost in overall speed.
posted by normy at 10:28 AM on June 3, 2007
posted by normy at 10:28 AM on June 3, 2007
3. The best shock absorbers on a road bike (after your knees) are the tires. ... Get bigger tires. Unless you're racing, there's little reason to ride anything under a 25mm tires, and I'd even say under a 28mm. A good friend of mine wrecked his back riding 21mm tires. He's so bad now that he can't ride more than 10km without having to quit for the day. Going to slicks at 28mm or even 32mm will make a huge difference to your ride quality.
I'm amazed it took this long to get to tires, although I'm sure the amount of weight being carried by your hands is important too..
I've been having a sore tail bone problem, as well as a couple of pinch flats, so I've been playing with tire size/pressure a lot lately - unfortunately my hybrid bike sizes won't be directly relevant. Cutting some details, I've currently got a 1.5" tire on the back, at 65psi. I find it is just a tiny bit too sloppy for me, but it solved the bone jarring problem I was having with 1.25"s at 100psi. I think you want the fattest slick that will fit your road bike, and go from there.
posted by Chuckles at 3:11 PM on June 3, 2007
I'm amazed it took this long to get to tires, although I'm sure the amount of weight being carried by your hands is important too..
I've been having a sore tail bone problem, as well as a couple of pinch flats, so I've been playing with tire size/pressure a lot lately - unfortunately my hybrid bike sizes won't be directly relevant. Cutting some details, I've currently got a 1.5" tire on the back, at 65psi. I find it is just a tiny bit too sloppy for me, but it solved the bone jarring problem I was having with 1.25"s at 100psi. I think you want the fattest slick that will fit your road bike, and go from there.
posted by Chuckles at 3:11 PM on June 3, 2007
Carbon will and does break in a different manner than other materials.
Well, that Cervelo commercial they were running during The Tour last year was kind of concerning. I can live without knowing what it is like to have a catastrophic front fork failure :P
posted by Chuckles at 3:18 PM on June 3, 2007
Well, that Cervelo commercial they were running during The Tour last year was kind of concerning. I can live without knowing what it is like to have a catastrophic front fork failure :P
posted by Chuckles at 3:18 PM on June 3, 2007
If you want to damp vibration in your front wheel, consider getting a slightly wider tire or use a slightly lower pressure in your current tire.
It didn't actually take that long to address tires.. I should have read more carefully.
posted by Chuckles at 3:24 PM on June 3, 2007
It didn't actually take that long to address tires.. I should have read more carefully.
posted by Chuckles at 3:24 PM on June 3, 2007
I can live without knowing what it is like to have a catastrophic front fork failure
It's oddly like riding a unicycle with handlebars.
posted by kcm at 8:35 PM on June 3, 2007
It's oddly like riding a unicycle with handlebars.
posted by kcm at 8:35 PM on June 3, 2007
Response by poster: Hmm, let me clear up a few points:
- My daily rides are 15-30 miles but I'd certainly be doing monthly 50 milers and I hope to get to doing a century every couple months for fun. So it's not quite like I'm spending a fortune to go to the store, I do want to ride seriously, on the order of several thousand miles per year.
- I mentioned carbon because I had read earlier ask mefi posts where people borrowed a carbon bike and said it rode like a dream. I suppose it was just more comfortable geometry. Crashing carbon bikes isn't a concern as I've had zero crashes in the past decade of riding thousands of miles and I currently ride in farm road back country where cars are rare.
- I hear a lot of bigger tire suggestions but after riding for the past 30 years on a near-daily basis, I really do feel rolling resistance more than anything else. I can tell the difference between 90PSI in my front wheel and 110PSI. Though less air or fatter tires would be more comfy, they do really slow me down. I spent a few weeks on under inflated (read: not maxed out) tires and pumping to the max netted me 1.5 mph faster avg speeds on a 20 mile ride.
- I typically ride around 16-17mph average, for about an hour per ride, done every other day if possible. I'd like to get into the 18-20mph range and try and do that daily with weekend breaks with a faster bike.
- I'll definitely try out as many bikes as I can but my local shop's selection is really thin, especially for my large size (I need 61cm and up frames, most shops carry stuff in the mid-50s), which is why I asked for some suggestions or a direction to go in before I start testing them out. Thanks for all the advice so far.
posted by mathowie at 9:12 PM on June 3, 2007
- My daily rides are 15-30 miles but I'd certainly be doing monthly 50 milers and I hope to get to doing a century every couple months for fun. So it's not quite like I'm spending a fortune to go to the store, I do want to ride seriously, on the order of several thousand miles per year.
- I mentioned carbon because I had read earlier ask mefi posts where people borrowed a carbon bike and said it rode like a dream. I suppose it was just more comfortable geometry. Crashing carbon bikes isn't a concern as I've had zero crashes in the past decade of riding thousands of miles and I currently ride in farm road back country where cars are rare.
- I hear a lot of bigger tire suggestions but after riding for the past 30 years on a near-daily basis, I really do feel rolling resistance more than anything else. I can tell the difference between 90PSI in my front wheel and 110PSI. Though less air or fatter tires would be more comfy, they do really slow me down. I spent a few weeks on under inflated (read: not maxed out) tires and pumping to the max netted me 1.5 mph faster avg speeds on a 20 mile ride.
- I typically ride around 16-17mph average, for about an hour per ride, done every other day if possible. I'd like to get into the 18-20mph range and try and do that daily with weekend breaks with a faster bike.
- I'll definitely try out as many bikes as I can but my local shop's selection is really thin, especially for my large size (I need 61cm and up frames, most shops carry stuff in the mid-50s), which is why I asked for some suggestions or a direction to go in before I start testing them out. Thanks for all the advice so far.
posted by mathowie at 9:12 PM on June 3, 2007
In my experience there's a lot of confirmation bias in carbon selection. It even beats titanium frames in that department. So there's that.
And, concerns about frame longevity, particularly for road bikes, are overblown. Durability (which can be linked to materials toughness numbers) matters quite a lot, for say trials riding, but I can't say that in 25 years of doing casual maintenance for me, familiy and friends that I've ever seen a road frame suffer wear damage (not strictly true---some Hi-Ten steel fames do "just break", but not many). I don't have a lot of experience with carbon, but the few bikes I've seen have not been noticably less durable than other frames. They certainly survive multiple century seasons just fine.
posted by bonehead at 2:52 PM on June 4, 2007
And, concerns about frame longevity, particularly for road bikes, are overblown. Durability (which can be linked to materials toughness numbers) matters quite a lot, for say trials riding, but I can't say that in 25 years of doing casual maintenance for me, familiy and friends that I've ever seen a road frame suffer wear damage (not strictly true---some Hi-Ten steel fames do "just break", but not many). I don't have a lot of experience with carbon, but the few bikes I've seen have not been noticably less durable than other frames. They certainly survive multiple century seasons just fine.
posted by bonehead at 2:52 PM on June 4, 2007
I apologize if any of the following is a repeat as I just skimmed the above answers.
To address the front end road feel:
1. Wider tires as stated above. You noted you like the higher PSI which I believe depends more on body weight than road feel. I'm on the heavier end of road cyclists so I wouldn't dream of going out with anything less than 100psi, I usually run around 110-115psi in 700x25s. I think going to a slightly wider tire will still help and not bump up rolling resistance too much. I roll on 700x21 strictly on the velodrome and you can definitely tell the increased buzz of a narrow tire. There's a tipping point where you do start to feel a reduction in speed, probably in the 28/32 range.
2. Your front contact point, the handle bar. Gel bar tape, gel inserts, and good padded gloves can all help cut down buzz from the road. I remember you said you already had a fitting session so your bar is probably in the right place for weight distribution.
As to the frame question, I dork out on roadbikereview.com alot and confirmation bias weighs in a ton on the reviews and feedback on the forum. Many write reviews after only a couple weeks to month raving about how their carbon frame feels like a cloud compared to their old frame. Take that with a huge grain of salt. If you were to ask again in a few months their view will have mellowed.
Most of the carbon bikes I've ridden do feel different but not enough for me personally to lay out a couple thousand. A bigger factor that isn't always discussed is the geometry. The seat tube and head tube angles can have a much bigger effect that frame material. An aluminum frame with a 72 or 73 degree head tube will probably feel more relaxed and comfortable than a carbon bike with a 75 degree head tube. Fork rake can also effect front end characteristics.
I would look for bikes with relaxed geometries, your Trek is mostly marketed as an entry level racer not so much for long distance comfort. Specialized has the Roubiax line, the Giant OCRs, the Bianchi C2Cs, and others. Not to snub your local shop but definitely take a day and check around Portland, here's a list. I know River City has an indoor test ride area and tons of brands but tends to charge more than other shops so check around.
posted by asterisk at 4:19 PM on June 6, 2007
To address the front end road feel:
1. Wider tires as stated above. You noted you like the higher PSI which I believe depends more on body weight than road feel. I'm on the heavier end of road cyclists so I wouldn't dream of going out with anything less than 100psi, I usually run around 110-115psi in 700x25s. I think going to a slightly wider tire will still help and not bump up rolling resistance too much. I roll on 700x21 strictly on the velodrome and you can definitely tell the increased buzz of a narrow tire. There's a tipping point where you do start to feel a reduction in speed, probably in the 28/32 range.
2. Your front contact point, the handle bar. Gel bar tape, gel inserts, and good padded gloves can all help cut down buzz from the road. I remember you said you already had a fitting session so your bar is probably in the right place for weight distribution.
As to the frame question, I dork out on roadbikereview.com alot and confirmation bias weighs in a ton on the reviews and feedback on the forum. Many write reviews after only a couple weeks to month raving about how their carbon frame feels like a cloud compared to their old frame. Take that with a huge grain of salt. If you were to ask again in a few months their view will have mellowed.
Most of the carbon bikes I've ridden do feel different but not enough for me personally to lay out a couple thousand. A bigger factor that isn't always discussed is the geometry. The seat tube and head tube angles can have a much bigger effect that frame material. An aluminum frame with a 72 or 73 degree head tube will probably feel more relaxed and comfortable than a carbon bike with a 75 degree head tube. Fork rake can also effect front end characteristics.
I would look for bikes with relaxed geometries, your Trek is mostly marketed as an entry level racer not so much for long distance comfort. Specialized has the Roubiax line, the Giant OCRs, the Bianchi C2Cs, and others. Not to snub your local shop but definitely take a day and check around Portland, here's a list. I know River City has an indoor test ride area and tons of brands but tends to charge more than other shops so check around.
posted by asterisk at 4:19 PM on June 6, 2007
Response by poster: So I went out and test rode a few bikes. I figured I'd only buy if I could feel a major difference and I found a good deal. I ended up finding a great Lemond Alpe D'Huez in a triple chainring, in the largest size, for 10% off. It's a combo carbon/aluminum frame with carbon on the stays and seat tube.
The 10-speed 105 series were indeed some very smooth shifters and the ride felt a lot smoother, like I had a shock in the back. Thanks for the help everyone, I feel like I got a much nicer ride based on everyone's advice.
posted by mathowie at 5:37 PM on June 6, 2007
The 10-speed 105 series were indeed some very smooth shifters and the ride felt a lot smoother, like I had a shock in the back. Thanks for the help everyone, I feel like I got a much nicer ride based on everyone's advice.
posted by mathowie at 5:37 PM on June 6, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by forallmankind at 9:07 PM on June 2, 2007