What I do now that I know someone in our class is cheating?
May 9, 2007 7:57 AM Subscribe
What I do now that I know someone in our class is cheating?
Hello, I am in a very hard program at NYU. I am doing good in all my classes except for one. 6 out of 10 people are failing this class and are scared. We had to take a final yesterday which determines who stays and who leaves the program. Well one girl in my class had writing on her hand and another student saw it and told me and 3 other students. This girl is the teachers pet and the teacher loves her.This girl gets all A's on her exams and messes up the grade curve for the rest of us. Now I am wondering if she cheats on all her exams or just this one. I want to know if I should tell that teacher (even though its already passed) and if I do how will I get her to believe me? This teacher is hostile towards us is there another way to handle this? Any and all suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.
Hello, I am in a very hard program at NYU. I am doing good in all my classes except for one. 6 out of 10 people are failing this class and are scared. We had to take a final yesterday which determines who stays and who leaves the program. Well one girl in my class had writing on her hand and another student saw it and told me and 3 other students. This girl is the teachers pet and the teacher loves her.This girl gets all A's on her exams and messes up the grade curve for the rest of us. Now I am wondering if she cheats on all her exams or just this one. I want to know if I should tell that teacher (even though its already passed) and if I do how will I get her to believe me? This teacher is hostile towards us is there another way to handle this? Any and all suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.
Do nothing. You have no real evidence. All you have is a third party account that she had some scribble on her hand. and the amount of content that you can scribble on the back of your hand is unlikely to get you through any exam, even if this actually was an attempt on her part to cheat.
If this student was really concerned about the issue, she should have mentioned it to the invigilator during the exam, not gossip with her pals a few days later.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:40 AM on May 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
If this student was really concerned about the issue, she should have mentioned it to the invigilator during the exam, not gossip with her pals a few days later.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:40 AM on May 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
I don't think you have any realistic means of convincing the teacher. This is probably a good thing as there should be some limits to the destruction that results from hearsay. Even if she wasn't the pet you wouldn't be in a good spot to go to the teacher.
If there is another test, the group of you can keep an eye on her. Do it somewhat covertly. If she cheats, point it out, loudly, then and there.
posted by BigSky at 7:42 AM on May 9, 2007
If there is another test, the group of you can keep an eye on her. Do it somewhat covertly. If she cheats, point it out, loudly, then and there.
posted by BigSky at 7:42 AM on May 9, 2007
I wouldn't bother. If you're failing, that's your problem - if you know the material, it doesn't matter if everyone else cheats. I'm not trying to be a douche, I'm saying that someone else's cheating isn't really your problem here.
Second, You didn't see anything and you have no direct evidence - and by now any evidence is gone. You'll look like a tool.
Third, if 60% of the class is failing, that is a problem. You need to speak with the Prof, or the Dean if the prof doesn't address this problem.
I know that's not what you wanted to hear - but a couple years ago I had a prof redo the class curve after the drop date passed. I went from an A/B to a D overnight. I bitched to the dean and got a B/C out of the course. It sucked to have to do that - but no engineering professor should expect a bell shaped distribution with 35 sample points.
Hope this helps.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:43 AM on May 9, 2007
With it being over, there is probably very little recourse as there is nothing with which you could prove your accusations.
The proper thing would have been to draw it to the examiner's attention during the test.
You could still make an official complaint, but honestly, it is too late. The class is over, the test is over.
Now, it could be that if some students are asked to leave the program due to this one test, then those who actually witnessed the cheating could present their information to the Director of that program or the Dean of that department/school.
However, understand that there still is no proof of cheating.
What would be a better approach, in my opinion, would be a unified presentation by "the rest of the class" to the director/dean claiming unfair grading and non-equitable treatment by the professor.
It still might accomplish nothing, but if 6 of 10 students in a class showed up at my door, making a direct complaint in one voice, I would at least listen.
posted by Ynoxas at 7:55 AM on May 9, 2007
The proper thing would have been to draw it to the examiner's attention during the test.
You could still make an official complaint, but honestly, it is too late. The class is over, the test is over.
Now, it could be that if some students are asked to leave the program due to this one test, then those who actually witnessed the cheating could present their information to the Director of that program or the Dean of that department/school.
However, understand that there still is no proof of cheating.
What would be a better approach, in my opinion, would be a unified presentation by "the rest of the class" to the director/dean claiming unfair grading and non-equitable treatment by the professor.
It still might accomplish nothing, but if 6 of 10 students in a class showed up at my door, making a direct complaint in one voice, I would at least listen.
posted by Ynoxas at 7:55 AM on May 9, 2007
I am told that the Marine Corps way is to go up to her and tell her that you know she is cheating and that she can either turn herself in, or you'll do it.
I'm not saying that's going to be easy/free of repercussions, though.
posted by Comrade_robot at 7:57 AM on May 9, 2007
I'm not saying that's going to be easy/free of repercussions, though.
posted by Comrade_robot at 7:57 AM on May 9, 2007
I disagree with Pogo_Fuzzybut. Having cheaters in your class ultimately devalues your qualification (maybe not perceptibly in the individual case, but cheaters are stomped on when caught for a very good reason). Even if your grade isn't affected, the value of it can be if someone who is undeserving of it has the same grade or better. You have every justification in wanting them dealt with.
If you don't want to speak to your teacher, go up a level and speak to someone higher. Maybe leave anonymous letters for the staff if that makes you feel more comfortable (say in the note why you don't feel comfortable revealing your identity, but that you take it seriously, and they should also one would imagine).
The evidence is gone, there is nothing that can likely be done about the past teaching. But, invigilation for any remaining exams needs to be stepped up, and I think that's what you should aim to have done to deal with the problem, and doing this means you don't have to make accusations about individuals.
posted by edd at 7:57 AM on May 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
If you don't want to speak to your teacher, go up a level and speak to someone higher. Maybe leave anonymous letters for the staff if that makes you feel more comfortable (say in the note why you don't feel comfortable revealing your identity, but that you take it seriously, and they should also one would imagine).
The evidence is gone, there is nothing that can likely be done about the past teaching. But, invigilation for any remaining exams needs to be stepped up, and I think that's what you should aim to have done to deal with the problem, and doing this means you don't have to make accusations about individuals.
posted by edd at 7:57 AM on May 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
You mind your own business.
posted by jonmc at 7:59 AM on May 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 7:59 AM on May 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
Another vote for "do nothing". All you have is some writing on the girl's hand. You don't know what the writing said. Coulda been a shopping list, a few motivational words, a phone number... anything.
You could mess up this girl's entire education because of some third-hand rumour. Don't do it unless you have absolute, stone-cold proof.
posted by afx237vi at 7:59 AM on May 9, 2007
You could mess up this girl's entire education because of some third-hand rumour. Don't do it unless you have absolute, stone-cold proof.
posted by afx237vi at 7:59 AM on May 9, 2007
In general if you know for sure that someone is cheating, you should tell the prof. Some schools have honor codes that make it your duty to tell the prof.
BUT - it sounds like you only suspect she was cheating. She had writing on her hand, but do you know what it was? I write on my hand all the time, so I can remember to run errands etc. Was she reading the stuff from her hand and then writing it down? Are these exams where a short crib sheet would help, or are they more involved essay-exams?
Don't let your animosity for this person govern your actions here. You say she blows the bell curve for everyone else - you must know that this would be a bad reason to try to make trouble for her. Don't falsely accuse someone of cheating - it's a very serious accusation. If it were true it could get her kicked out.
If with all the circumstances, you still feel confident that she was cheating, you could leave the professor an anonymous note describing exactly what your evidence was. The professor can't go back and fail her on that exam, based only on what you've said here. But s/he could watch the person more closely in the next exam.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:00 AM on May 9, 2007
BUT - it sounds like you only suspect she was cheating. She had writing on her hand, but do you know what it was? I write on my hand all the time, so I can remember to run errands etc. Was she reading the stuff from her hand and then writing it down? Are these exams where a short crib sheet would help, or are they more involved essay-exams?
Don't let your animosity for this person govern your actions here. You say she blows the bell curve for everyone else - you must know that this would be a bad reason to try to make trouble for her. Don't falsely accuse someone of cheating - it's a very serious accusation. If it were true it could get her kicked out.
If with all the circumstances, you still feel confident that she was cheating, you could leave the professor an anonymous note describing exactly what your evidence was. The professor can't go back and fail her on that exam, based only on what you've said here. But s/he could watch the person more closely in the next exam.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:00 AM on May 9, 2007
If you're in above your head, then you're in above your head. A class is to learn, it's not some type of abstract accomplishment. If you understand the material, you will pass the class. If not, then choose another class that is better suited for you.
If someone else cheats, it is not relevant in any way to your belonging in that class, so just let it pass.
posted by markovich at 8:00 AM on May 9, 2007
If someone else cheats, it is not relevant in any way to your belonging in that class, so just let it pass.
posted by markovich at 8:00 AM on May 9, 2007
So, you want to put someone's academic career in jeopardy based on hearsay because you don't like her? Just wanted to be clear. Think about the consequences of what you want to do.
I do agree that the larger issue of how this professor grades needs to be collectively addressed with the dean, sans accusations of cheating. While I don't think students should be coddled with good grades, if I was paying NYU the outrageous tuition it charges so some guy could take a crap on my kid's head, I'd be raising hell.
posted by mkultra at 8:02 AM on May 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
I do agree that the larger issue of how this professor grades needs to be collectively addressed with the dean, sans accusations of cheating. While I don't think students should be coddled with good grades, if I was paying NYU the outrageous tuition it charges so some guy could take a crap on my kid's head, I'd be raising hell.
posted by mkultra at 8:02 AM on May 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
As a matter of pure theory I must respectfully disagree with matteo and jonmc; cheating is wrong and diminishes all of us.
As a matter of practice for this question, I am troubled by the element of hearsay without verification.
posted by Dizzy at 8:04 AM on May 9, 2007
As a matter of practice for this question, I am troubled by the element of hearsay without verification.
posted by Dizzy at 8:04 AM on May 9, 2007
nobody likes snitches
You mind your own business.
In what world is this right? Why turn your eyes away and let evil prosper? The cheater is hurting the entire class, including the original poster, espcially if their marks are being graded on a curve. If someone steals, and this person is surely stealing marks from the poster, should you just walk away?
I vote for Comerade_robot's approach. Collect your peers and confront her. If necessary, take it to the prof as a group. Academics, in my experience, thake these sorts of accusations very seriously. Do it sooner than later.
posted by bonehead at 8:14 AM on May 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
You mind your own business.
In what world is this right? Why turn your eyes away and let evil prosper? The cheater is hurting the entire class, including the original poster, espcially if their marks are being graded on a curve. If someone steals, and this person is surely stealing marks from the poster, should you just walk away?
I vote for Comerade_robot's approach. Collect your peers and confront her. If necessary, take it to the prof as a group. Academics, in my experience, thake these sorts of accusations very seriously. Do it sooner than later.
posted by bonehead at 8:14 AM on May 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Pogo_Fuzzybutt obviously hasn't heard of the Stern Curve. Of course your classmates' grades can affect your own. Sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly. But generally NYU business students are conditioned to be ruthless on account of a harsh curve--it made taking general core classes (without a curve) with them a little frustrating because they were irrationally competitive. I myself enjoyed the delicious grade inflation at the College of Arts and Sciences!
However. Especially because you didn't see anything first hand, it seems unlikely there's anything you can do. Perhaps the student who actually witnessed the cheating should approach the professor. Even just asking us about this, you sound a bit like you're grasping at a straw out of desperation--one last chance to improve your chances of passing now that the final is over. If four students approached the prof with this, only one of which witnessed anything, it will seem even more that way. Whatever you decide to do, maybe you should speak to your academic advisor about it first, just to get a more objective observer in on it beforehand, and also to advise you on how best to proceed. (I know it can be tough to get an appointment with your advisor at NYU sometimes, because they're writing a book or some shit, but remember--they're getting paid extra to be an advisor! It's their job to meet with you and talk with you about stuff).
posted by lampoil at 8:17 AM on May 9, 2007
However. Especially because you didn't see anything first hand, it seems unlikely there's anything you can do. Perhaps the student who actually witnessed the cheating should approach the professor. Even just asking us about this, you sound a bit like you're grasping at a straw out of desperation--one last chance to improve your chances of passing now that the final is over. If four students approached the prof with this, only one of which witnessed anything, it will seem even more that way. Whatever you decide to do, maybe you should speak to your academic advisor about it first, just to get a more objective observer in on it beforehand, and also to advise you on how best to proceed. (I know it can be tough to get an appointment with your advisor at NYU sometimes, because they're writing a book or some shit, but remember--they're getting paid extra to be an advisor! It's their job to meet with you and talk with you about stuff).
posted by lampoil at 8:17 AM on May 9, 2007
If someone cheats in a class that's graded on a curve, it's absolutely the other students' business. Sure, the other students could learn the material, but they'll get beaten every time by someone who learns the material and cheats.
That said, I don't think there anything you can do after the fact when there's no evidence beyond people's contradictory testimony.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 8:26 AM on May 9, 2007
That said, I don't think there anything you can do after the fact when there's no evidence beyond people's contradictory testimony.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 8:26 AM on May 9, 2007
Since you did not see classmate X cheating, the only thing you can report is that classmate Y saw classmate X cheating. The only thing that will accomplish is making you look a bit foolish, ESPECIALLY if you are failing the class.
Either encourage classmate Y to share what he saw with the dean, or accept it is one of those unfair things people manage to get away with.
posted by necessitas at 8:36 AM on May 9, 2007
Either encourage classmate Y to share what he saw with the dean, or accept it is one of those unfair things people manage to get away with.
posted by necessitas at 8:36 AM on May 9, 2007
Even if there isnt a curve there is no excuse for cheating. It devalues the accomplishment of those do bothered to actually do the work, and is innately unfair. If you had any proof at all then I would do whatever it took get this girl what is coming to her, but you only have heresay which is frankly not good enough, maybe you can get the witness to go to a dean, but it seems like you are SOL. If you have another class with this girl in the future make sure you keep a close eye on her so you can catch her in the act.
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:37 AM on May 9, 2007
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:37 AM on May 9, 2007
This girl gets all A's on her exams and messes up the grade curve for the rest of us.
If this is the attitude you take with your teacher, that's why they are being "hostile" toward you.
Cheating is wrong -- but you are asking how to get the teacher to believe that you heard a rumor. It seems like what you really want to know is "How do I pass this class?". You may fail your class. You may be out of the program. You will go on with life on a different path, perhaps a path that will lead to wonderful things.
posted by yohko at 8:38 AM on May 9, 2007
If this is the attitude you take with your teacher, that's why they are being "hostile" toward you.
Cheating is wrong -- but you are asking how to get the teacher to believe that you heard a rumor. It seems like what you really want to know is "How do I pass this class?". You may fail your class. You may be out of the program. You will go on with life on a different path, perhaps a path that will lead to wonderful things.
posted by yohko at 8:38 AM on May 9, 2007
nobody likes snitches.
when you pass the 6th grade, let us know.
OP, tell the person who witnessed it firsthand that you'd appreciate them filing a formal complaint. your school honor code requires this, and there are probably people s/he can complain to besides your professor (the Dean or Assistant Dean is usually helpful with this sort of thing). It's not fair to you or anyone else, but since you did not witness it firsthand, it's probably not a good idea to make any accusations yourself.
Aside from that, there's not much you can do now. Good luck.
posted by almostmanda at 8:45 AM on May 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
when you pass the 6th grade, let us know.
OP, tell the person who witnessed it firsthand that you'd appreciate them filing a formal complaint. your school honor code requires this, and there are probably people s/he can complain to besides your professor (the Dean or Assistant Dean is usually helpful with this sort of thing). It's not fair to you or anyone else, but since you did not witness it firsthand, it's probably not a good idea to make any accusations yourself.
Aside from that, there's not much you can do now. Good luck.
posted by almostmanda at 8:45 AM on May 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
LobsterMitten: "Don't let your animosity for this person govern your actions here. You say she blows the bell curve for everyone else - you must know that this would be a bad reason to try to make trouble for her. Don't falsely accuse someone of cheating - it's a very serious accusation. If it were true it could get her kicked out.
Or, if you're not doing so great in the class, it could look like you're being vindictive and underhanded, especially if there's no proof. Everyone hates the teacher's pet who's doing better than everyone else, and in a very competitive class it's not surprising that rumors get started about that person. Without evidence, however, you've got nothing. Spend less time worrying about what someone else is doing, and more time worrying about what you're doing. Gossip is bad, mkay?
posted by Mr. Gunn at 8:53 AM on May 9, 2007
Or, if you're not doing so great in the class, it could look like you're being vindictive and underhanded, especially if there's no proof. Everyone hates the teacher's pet who's doing better than everyone else, and in a very competitive class it's not surprising that rumors get started about that person. Without evidence, however, you've got nothing. Spend less time worrying about what someone else is doing, and more time worrying about what you're doing. Gossip is bad, mkay?
posted by Mr. Gunn at 8:53 AM on May 9, 2007
The point that keeps crossing my mind: You can't write that much on a hand.
If the program is legitimately difficult, it's hard to accept the basic premise that somebody gained significant advantage by writing on their hand.
posted by Tacos Are Pretty Great at 9:07 AM on May 9, 2007
If the program is legitimately difficult, it's hard to accept the basic premise that somebody gained significant advantage by writing on their hand.
posted by Tacos Are Pretty Great at 9:07 AM on May 9, 2007
I was in a similar situation in college and was too shy to do anything about it. But a classmate wrote an unsigned note to the instructor, saying that he'd seen someone with what looked like a crib sheet during the last test. The teacher didn't mention the note, but told the class that cheating and other forms of academic dishonesty were on the rise campus-wide and that she intended to be more vigilant. After that, people either stopped cheating or were more secretive about it; we didn't see any more of it.
What you want to do is call the professor's attention to the issue without making accusations.
posted by wryly at 9:08 AM on May 9, 2007
What you want to do is call the professor's attention to the issue without making accusations.
posted by wryly at 9:08 AM on May 9, 2007
nobody likes snitches
Oh, really? As a professor, I would love it if a (graduate!!!) student reported hard evidence of another student in a program cheating on an exam. Not this situation -- only the person who witnessed the actual suspicious activity has any business saying anything.
Put it this way. Snitching for the sake of snitching is sometimes distasteful. But snitching on someone whose offense a) is harming an entire program's reputation, or could; and b) under a competitive curve-graded scenario when continuation in the program is at stake is your ethical duty, and it isn't "snitching," but acting responsibly. Add to this a program training people to do something that requires ethical conduct and in which dishonest imperils others (let's say medical or engineering schools, though it's true of any profession, really) and it becomes *especially* imperative to report any observed dishonesty.
I must say that I have a *zero* tolerance policy for grad student dishonesty. Once, and you're out. Period. If you have to cheat to get through grad school, you damn well shouldn't be there.
In this case, however, I would prevail upon the student who claims to have seen something to speak out (and anonymously is fine if she genuinely believes she saw something dishonest and isn't just trying to hurt the star student). Otherwise, rest easy. This person will eventually be caught and disgraced, and the later it happens, the bigger a waste the rest of her/his time in school will have been. Karma.
Cheatering on academic work is never a victimless crime.
posted by spitbull at 9:09 AM on May 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Oh, really? As a professor, I would love it if a (graduate!!!) student reported hard evidence of another student in a program cheating on an exam. Not this situation -- only the person who witnessed the actual suspicious activity has any business saying anything.
Put it this way. Snitching for the sake of snitching is sometimes distasteful. But snitching on someone whose offense a) is harming an entire program's reputation, or could; and b) under a competitive curve-graded scenario when continuation in the program is at stake is your ethical duty, and it isn't "snitching," but acting responsibly. Add to this a program training people to do something that requires ethical conduct and in which dishonest imperils others (let's say medical or engineering schools, though it's true of any profession, really) and it becomes *especially* imperative to report any observed dishonesty.
I must say that I have a *zero* tolerance policy for grad student dishonesty. Once, and you're out. Period. If you have to cheat to get through grad school, you damn well shouldn't be there.
In this case, however, I would prevail upon the student who claims to have seen something to speak out (and anonymously is fine if she genuinely believes she saw something dishonest and isn't just trying to hurt the star student). Otherwise, rest easy. This person will eventually be caught and disgraced, and the later it happens, the bigger a waste the rest of her/his time in school will have been. Karma.
Cheatering on academic work is never a victimless crime.
posted by spitbull at 9:09 AM on May 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
"In what world is this right? Why turn your eyes away and let evil prosper? "
Thanks, Spiderman.
If I might quote some equally fantasy-based rap concepts— "Stop snitchin'"; "Snitches get stitches."
Or, the best way to deal with this (in the real world) is likely to talk to her about it— "Some folks saw you looking at something written on your hand? What tha dilly, yo?" Of course, you don't have to be bound by the patois of late '90s rap, but it'll add informality.
Who knows: maybe the confrontation itself will throw her off her game and she'll be too nervy to take any test again, and will fail out of school, which will bring your grade up in the meantime.
posted by klangklangston at 9:15 AM on May 9, 2007
Thanks, Spiderman.
If I might quote some equally fantasy-based rap concepts— "Stop snitchin'"; "Snitches get stitches."
Or, the best way to deal with this (in the real world) is likely to talk to her about it— "Some folks saw you looking at something written on your hand? What tha dilly, yo?" Of course, you don't have to be bound by the patois of late '90s rap, but it'll add informality.
Who knows: maybe the confrontation itself will throw her off her game and she'll be too nervy to take any test again, and will fail out of school, which will bring your grade up in the meantime.
posted by klangklangston at 9:15 AM on May 9, 2007
Do you have an honor code? "No one likes snitches" is such a dumb answer. If she cheated and you are sure that she did then turn her in. Since you did not see her, you will have to also turn in the person who did. Aren't honor codes tough?
posted by caddis at 9:49 AM on May 9, 2007
posted by caddis at 9:49 AM on May 9, 2007
Whether one should be a snitch or not is irrelevant. What should be done if you had proof is irrelevant. The problem seems to me to be that there's no proof of anything, and that investigation is unlikely to provide any. Even supposing you were the witness, the suspected cheater has only to say "it was my to-do list, a cell phone number and two IM addresses" or "it was my grocery list" or "the serenity prayer." You can't cause appropriate consequences to the other student. You can't cause the truth to be discovered, or justice to be served. All you can do is to make an unprovable slander casting doubt onto the (quite possibly innocent) other student's reputation, while acquiring a reputation of your own.
posted by tyllwin at 9:50 AM on May 9, 2007
posted by tyllwin at 9:50 AM on May 9, 2007
You should not report this, but ONLY because you did not see anything yourself. If you cannot get the actual witness to her hand scribbles to lodge a complaint, then you should not do anything. Even if the witness decided to lodge a complaint, the time to do it was yesterday to the proctor while the scribbles were there. Reporting it after the fact is kind of bizarre, as the administration is going to ask why the "witness" waited so long.
The idea that this is "snitching," however, is really disappointing and childish. Have you people never been in a program that has a harsh curve? If the class is graded on a curve and one person is averaging 90% while the rest of the class is averaging 60%, then that makes an impact on people's grades, regardless of how much material they know. I've gotten A's on tests that I fucked up on because other people fucked up more. I've also gotten C's on tests that I did objectively well on, but other people did ever-so-slightly better than I did. To say that the cheating of one person doesn't matter is utterly incorrect mathmatically, not to mention ethically.
posted by gatorae at 10:03 AM on May 9, 2007
The idea that this is "snitching," however, is really disappointing and childish. Have you people never been in a program that has a harsh curve? If the class is graded on a curve and one person is averaging 90% while the rest of the class is averaging 60%, then that makes an impact on people's grades, regardless of how much material they know. I've gotten A's on tests that I fucked up on because other people fucked up more. I've also gotten C's on tests that I did objectively well on, but other people did ever-so-slightly better than I did. To say that the cheating of one person doesn't matter is utterly incorrect mathmatically, not to mention ethically.
posted by gatorae at 10:03 AM on May 9, 2007
cheating is wrong and diminishes all of us.
cheating is wrong and diminishes those who cheat, because they're lazy and/or insecure fucks. those of us who don't cheat are not dimished by it, actually our accomplishment becomes more meaningful because what we accomplish we accomplish by playing clean. ignore the cheats, they'll either get caught in school or later, and anyway eventually people will figure out that they don't know shit because, yes, they're cheats.
sooner or later they'll find out you cannot cheat all the time, and they'll pay the price.
nobody likes snitches but of course nobody likes cheats, either. they're a slightly ballsier -- at least they do take some risks -- version of the snitches, same insecurity, same mediocrity. fuck'em all.
student reported hard evidence
like a cell phone video? knock yourself out.
Cheatering
priceless, professor. no, excuse me "pricerless".
posted by matteo at 10:04 AM on May 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
cheating is wrong and diminishes those who cheat, because they're lazy and/or insecure fucks. those of us who don't cheat are not dimished by it, actually our accomplishment becomes more meaningful because what we accomplish we accomplish by playing clean. ignore the cheats, they'll either get caught in school or later, and anyway eventually people will figure out that they don't know shit because, yes, they're cheats.
sooner or later they'll find out you cannot cheat all the time, and they'll pay the price.
nobody likes snitches but of course nobody likes cheats, either. they're a slightly ballsier -- at least they do take some risks -- version of the snitches, same insecurity, same mediocrity. fuck'em all.
student reported hard evidence
like a cell phone video? knock yourself out.
Cheatering
priceless, professor. no, excuse me "pricerless".
posted by matteo at 10:04 AM on May 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Seems to me you already have something against this woman and you and your classmates are hyper-sensitive to whatever she's up to. You have, perhaps, seen something innocent (a grocery list scrawled on her hand) and have interpreted it as something sinister. Don't say anything unless you have hard evidence. Why should she have to pay for your paranoia? Just keep an eye on her, that's all. If you find hard evidence, then take it to the teacher.
posted by MrFongGoesToLunch at 10:18 AM on May 9, 2007
posted by MrFongGoesToLunch at 10:18 AM on May 9, 2007
Get the person who witnessed the cheating talk to the cheater. And probably convey the message that the rest of the students don't like it, and although nobody is going to snitch, something will be done if it happens again.
posted by ruwan at 10:29 AM on May 9, 2007
posted by ruwan at 10:29 AM on May 9, 2007
Seconding Tacos Are Pretty Great: writing answers on one's hand ceases to be very effective after you pass that last test on state capitals.
posted by roger ackroyd at 10:57 AM on May 9, 2007
posted by roger ackroyd at 10:57 AM on May 9, 2007
Math prof here--I would expect to be told so I could look out for it in the future and possibly to confront the student in question. You don't need to say who it was, but if you do you can expect your prof to keep it anonymous at least w/ respect to any confrontations with the other student. You have no evidence, neither does the prof. Nobody is going to get expelled unless she admits to it. Anyone who notices cheating and doesn't respond in some way is undermining the learning process. I'm guessing the advice you're getting to not tell is coming from folks who have a very different view of education than I do, and I'm hoping for your sake you're in the right camp here.
posted by monkeymadness at 11:52 AM on May 9, 2007
posted by monkeymadness at 11:52 AM on May 9, 2007
those of us who don't cheat are not dimished by it
OP mentioned a curve.
posted by monkeymadness at 11:54 AM on May 9, 2007
OP mentioned a curve.
posted by monkeymadness at 11:54 AM on May 9, 2007
What it basically comes down to is you have no proof. You didnt even see it yourself.
Keep your eyes open but dont go ruining her academic career or your own over a 3rd hand rumour. If she's the teacher's pet as you say, then he may not be likely to believe you and/or may look more negatively towards you as a consequence. You say the teacher loves this girl and is hostile to the rest of you? Just let it drop - dont risk your own future over this - its not worth it.
Watch her - does she often have writing on her hand? Or is it just on test days? If you have other finals for other classes coming up - just look for any sign that she cheats - if you find it, raise your hand and speak to the examiner/adjudicator - its their job to report cheaters.
But as others have said, it could have been anything written on her hand, I rarely dont have something written on my hand, doesnt mean I'm cheating ;)
posted by missmagenta at 12:13 PM on May 9, 2007
Keep your eyes open but dont go ruining her academic career or your own over a 3rd hand rumour. If she's the teacher's pet as you say, then he may not be likely to believe you and/or may look more negatively towards you as a consequence. You say the teacher loves this girl and is hostile to the rest of you? Just let it drop - dont risk your own future over this - its not worth it.
Watch her - does she often have writing on her hand? Or is it just on test days? If you have other finals for other classes coming up - just look for any sign that she cheats - if you find it, raise your hand and speak to the examiner/adjudicator - its their job to report cheaters.
But as others have said, it could have been anything written on her hand, I rarely dont have something written on my hand, doesnt mean I'm cheating ;)
posted by missmagenta at 12:13 PM on May 9, 2007
First, and echoing many others, if you didn't see it you don't know for sure. Second, school is the start of reputations, and if this person is cheating in one class she is probably cheating in many. That reputation will likely stick. It works like that in engineering, too: after a few years certain people become unemployable in a market because so many co-workers remember what an asshole someone was.
So - do nothing but don't forget this person. Remember she cheated or maybe cheated, and if she applies to you for a job some day, keep that in mind.
posted by jet_silver at 12:41 PM on May 9, 2007
So - do nothing but don't forget this person. Remember she cheated or maybe cheated, and if she applies to you for a job some day, keep that in mind.
posted by jet_silver at 12:41 PM on May 9, 2007
I heard after graduation some people still cheat all the time. I heard these people frequently become presidents and CEOs.
Get over it, people are dicks and break the rules and screw each other over all the time. Concern yourself with being excellent and capable in what you do yourself and you will get a lot further.
If you focus on being the victim of "unfairness" you'll lead a miserable life spent complaining that the world is full of assholes who take unfair advantage, cause guess what, it is.
Besides in this case, as has been pointed out, you have a pretty shaky foundation to go on anyway.
posted by teishu at 1:09 PM on May 9, 2007
Get over it, people are dicks and break the rules and screw each other over all the time. Concern yourself with being excellent and capable in what you do yourself and you will get a lot further.
If you focus on being the victim of "unfairness" you'll lead a miserable life spent complaining that the world is full of assholes who take unfair advantage, cause guess what, it is.
Besides in this case, as has been pointed out, you have a pretty shaky foundation to go on anyway.
posted by teishu at 1:09 PM on May 9, 2007
The best time frame for reporting cheats is while the cheat in question is physically present, and the exam is ongoing. The cheat can then be examined for evidence.
I studied like no other for a difficult chem lab practical - and naturally, I was furious when I found out some guy had paid the lab TA for an A. This guy was cockily announcing said transaction during the lab practical (out of earshot of teachers and TA). He pretty much walked out of the practical after five minutes, with his guaranteed A. I was sorely tempted to report him, but didn't. I don't know why. It just seems like bad karma to snitch, although the unfairness of it all bugs me to this day.
On the other hand ... One of my Biology professors, however, drew the line pretty harshly on cheating. On the first day of class, he put out an offer of bonus points to those who snitched on cheaters - just walk up to him during the test and pretend to ask a question about the test, and snitch. His reasoning: Your classmates are the ones who will be your doctors, dentists, nurses. These are the people who will be treating you when you're sick. Do you really want this clueless cheat to be the one caring for your health?
And if the report was done after an exam, or a slip of paper reporting the cheat slipped under his table - the person in question would be called to his office to prove knowledge of the subject. Given, this method does have potential holes - such as students turning in innocent students for bonus points. But if the accused really does know the material, that should be no problem in proving innocence. Forgetting a thing or two from the exam is fine, but if the student has absolutely no idea what was written on the exam - then it's pretty obvious.
posted by Xere at 1:15 PM on May 9, 2007
I studied like no other for a difficult chem lab practical - and naturally, I was furious when I found out some guy had paid the lab TA for an A. This guy was cockily announcing said transaction during the lab practical (out of earshot of teachers and TA). He pretty much walked out of the practical after five minutes, with his guaranteed A. I was sorely tempted to report him, but didn't. I don't know why. It just seems like bad karma to snitch, although the unfairness of it all bugs me to this day.
On the other hand ... One of my Biology professors, however, drew the line pretty harshly on cheating. On the first day of class, he put out an offer of bonus points to those who snitched on cheaters - just walk up to him during the test and pretend to ask a question about the test, and snitch. His reasoning: Your classmates are the ones who will be your doctors, dentists, nurses. These are the people who will be treating you when you're sick. Do you really want this clueless cheat to be the one caring for your health?
And if the report was done after an exam, or a slip of paper reporting the cheat slipped under his table - the person in question would be called to his office to prove knowledge of the subject. Given, this method does have potential holes - such as students turning in innocent students for bonus points. But if the accused really does know the material, that should be no problem in proving innocence. Forgetting a thing or two from the exam is fine, but if the student has absolutely no idea what was written on the exam - then it's pretty obvious.
posted by Xere at 1:15 PM on May 9, 2007
Wow, you people take school seriously.
Yes.
I heard after graduation some people still cheat all the time. I heard these people frequently become presidents and CEOs.
Yes, and when they commit crimes outside of school, it's still wrong. Sometimes they go to jail for it. Sometimes they're able to manipulate the system so they don't get punished. What they do is wrong even if they don't get punished.
Honestly, wtf? Cheating is wrong, period. I don't think we need to debate that point to discuss what the OP should do in this situation.
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:57 PM on May 9, 2007
Yes.
I heard after graduation some people still cheat all the time. I heard these people frequently become presidents and CEOs.
Yes, and when they commit crimes outside of school, it's still wrong. Sometimes they go to jail for it. Sometimes they're able to manipulate the system so they don't get punished. What they do is wrong even if they don't get punished.
Honestly, wtf? Cheating is wrong, period. I don't think we need to debate that point to discuss what the OP should do in this situation.
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:57 PM on May 9, 2007
You not seeing it means that you have no proof. Just because someone else tells you, no matter how reliable they are, doesn't mean a thing. The person who saw it should have said something that day, but they didn't and now the chance to show proof is over.
I hate to say it, but you should just let it go.
posted by slc228 at 3:15 PM on May 9, 2007
I hate to say it, but you should just let it go.
posted by slc228 at 3:15 PM on May 9, 2007
You didn't see it. There's nothing you can do. But the girl who saw it should, in my opinion, approach the professor. It does affect you if, as you say, this girl's unearned high score sets the curve.
posted by mai at 3:39 PM on May 9, 2007
posted by mai at 3:39 PM on May 9, 2007
You should notify the professor that they should ask the person who told you. It is your obligation to make sure the other student fulfills his or her obligation. If there is no evidence, then nothing will happen to the student, you have nothing to worry about.
posted by about_time at 4:38 PM on May 9, 2007
posted by about_time at 4:38 PM on May 9, 2007
Xere: I love that idea. If I ever become a professor, I'm doing that.
posted by debit at 5:17 PM on May 9, 2007
posted by debit at 5:17 PM on May 9, 2007
priceless, professor. no, excuse me "pricerless".
Nice and snide, Matteo, given that I corrected it in the immediate next post. Your point is? I started to write "cheaters . . ." and changed it to "cheating." I left in an "er." Sue me.
As for those claiming "cheating only hurts the cheater," how would you feel upon learning your doctor cheated her way through medical school right before she cut you open?
The difference is only a matter of degree. It is extremely foolish and lazy logic to let it slide because it's a "victimless" act. Nonsense.
posted by spitbull at 4:05 AM on May 10, 2007
Nice and snide, Matteo, given that I corrected it in the immediate next post. Your point is? I started to write "cheaters . . ." and changed it to "cheating." I left in an "er." Sue me.
As for those claiming "cheating only hurts the cheater," how would you feel upon learning your doctor cheated her way through medical school right before she cut you open?
The difference is only a matter of degree. It is extremely foolish and lazy logic to let it slide because it's a "victimless" act. Nonsense.
posted by spitbull at 4:05 AM on May 10, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by JanetLand at 7:40 AM on May 9, 2007