So does this guy like me or what?
May 7, 2007 7:26 AM   Subscribe

So how do I find out what this guy is thinking about me and our series of quasi-dates without actually, you know, having to ASK him. Am I missing something here? (Much more inside.)

So here's the deal: I've been out three times in short succession with this guy who is someone I've long considered to be way out of my league. These quasi-dates were very romantic sunset picnic-type deals, very flirtatious outings seething with chemistry (from my POV at least,) but every time they've ended with a polite hug from him and good night. And yet without fail there he is calling my phone the very next day, brimming with enthusiasm about planning our next get-together. What is going on here? Why hasn't he made a move on me?

A little more about it: we met through a mutual friend at a party and he asked me pretty soon after meeting me for my contact info, then called me about a month later for drinks, which turned into an all day deep connection extravaganza. I'm so-so physically and while I think I have a lot going for me, I haven't been on the dating scene in years and have forgotten how to play ball, and this fellow is more than good-looking, very accomplished, and has been dating an extremely high caliber of attractive women for years (though strangely hasn't been in any long-term relationships for the last few years.) He's lovely and 100% gentlemanly and pretty much a fantasy-love affair waiting to happen, though I'm not particularly interested in anything more serious than that due to unrelated factors.

I've been giving him nothing but encouragement in the most subtle way I know how, even going so far as to tell him about how difficult it is to concentrate when I'm around him because he makes me flustered and scatterbrained since he's so adorable. And he DOES fluster me, telling me I have beautiful eyes and that he wants to take me dancing and traveling and putting his arm around me constantly and such. However I am very insecure about the idea of being the one to grab him and kiss him because there's still this part of me that's thinking "if he really liked you, he would be making a move, he is suave enough after all." He's also about ten years older than me and knows how to talk to women, so I'm not getting the "too shy" vibe from him.

To compound things, I don't want to just ask him straight out because the last few times I've done that with other ambiguous relationships has yielded disastrous results, not just embarrassing but occasionally friendship-ending awkwardness fests. Also, he is very evasive and indirect, (albeit charmingly so) and I don't think he'd react well to a straight-out interrogation, no matter how flippantly queried.

I'm not looking for anything serious, but to me having a shot with someone like this IS serious since he is unlike anyone I've ever been with, and would really broaden my perception of what I'm capable of attracting. (And yes I am seeing another guy -very- casually on the side but he doesn't know about him, so it's not like I have all my romance-eggs in one basket.)

So what should I do to judge if this guy is just playing out some advanced head trip, or is waiting for a more concrete kiss-me signal from my end, or is just a tease who has never been interested in being anything besides friends in the first place? And are there any fool-proof devices to tell when someone is in fact digging you without having to A: ask straight out or B: be the one to initiate kissing? (And is there a specific point, say quasi-date #4, after which I should just give up and cut my emotional losses?)

(Yes, I feel like I'm about thirteen years old right now. It's pretty embarrassing. Oh and PS asking the mutual friend to be a go-between is not an option in this case.)
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (66 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
Kiss him.

1) You're very attracted to him
2) You don't want anything serious, but you obviously don't just want to be friends.

What's to lose?
posted by chundo at 7:32 AM on May 7, 2007


It sounds to me like he likes you, but maybe not too seriously. But then I read the part about you having this exact same problem multiple times before. That sounds more like you just aren't reading the situtations correctly.

That said, I agree with chundo: There's no point in eventually giving up. Before you get to that point, make a move yourself. What's to lose?
posted by DU at 7:38 AM on May 7, 2007


Whenever I have found myself in this- is he attracted to me or not- type of situation I threw caution to the wind and asked the guy straight out, "Are you attracted to me?" If he responded yes, then I asked, "Then why haven't you kissed me yet?"

Of course, each time I was prepared for the situation to go either way because I figured it was better to know where I stood rather than wonder.
posted by dagnyduquette at 7:48 AM on May 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


second on kissing him, speak the international language baby!
posted by Salvatorparadise at 7:48 AM on May 7, 2007


Is it even remotely possible that he is a considerate, respectful gentleman, unwilling to overstep boundaries lest he offend?
posted by Dizzy at 7:50 AM on May 7, 2007 [5 favorites]


Kiss him, you fool.

(Also entertain the possibility that you might be his beard...)
posted by klangklangston at 7:51 AM on May 7, 2007


You're not quasi-dating, you're dating. It's possible he's quietly freaking out about getting involved with someone who, as you say, is not his type.

Pucker up and go for it. Don't let the relationship slide into that messy gray area.
posted by mkultra at 7:53 AM on May 7, 2007


He's scared of being rejected by you. If you don't want to kiss him, make it obvious you want him to kiss you.
posted by milarepa at 7:59 AM on May 7, 2007


Also, he is very evasive and indirect, (albeit charmingly so) and I don't think he'd react well to a straight-out interrogation, no matter how flippantly queried.

So he's really charming and great to be around, except for the fact that it seems he's playing games with you? Don't put up with this crap; the shit you're getting isn't worth the shit you're getting. If you ask him, hey, what's up? and he flips, he's a loser. The fact that the other guys ran after you tried to see what was up is a good thing- you don't need people like that in your life.

And are there any fool-proof devices to tell when someone is in fact digging you without having to A: ask straight out or B: be the one to initiate kissing?

There are no fool-proof devices to tell when a romantic encounter is going to work out the way you want it to. He could smooch you and buy you a diamond ring and marry you and give you babies and disappear one day after years of bliss. Life sucks like that. You just have to go for it and see what happens. I, for one, like to be absolutely sure that I've put myself out there, so when the guy gets flaky and runs away, at least I can say to myself, well, it's not like I wasn't clear.

He's lovely and 100% gentlemanly and pretty much a fantasy-love affair waiting to happen, though I'm not particularly interested in anything more serious than that due to unrelated factors.

A, there's no such thing as a fantasy-love affair, and B, if you're not interested, why are you letting this guy fuck with your head? Figure out what you want, judge the guy against your standards (and not lame ones, like, ohhh, he's so much older and more experienced and he only dates beautiful women), and commit or drop him accordingly.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:02 AM on May 7, 2007 [5 favorites]


Lean against him, then turn and look at him. Works every time.
posted by markovich at 8:03 AM on May 7, 2007 [6 favorites]


Why is it up to him to make the first move? Maybe he's shy about that sort of thing. Go for it. Kiss him.
posted by alms at 8:08 AM on May 7, 2007


It sounds like he is attracted to you. Either that or he is very very flirtatious in general. You mentioned the obvious way of finding out, asking him. That is understandably difficult, although from your account of things, it sounds like the answer would be yes. I suppose going this route can be risky. You don't want to just blurt out, "ummm so I like you, do you like me too?" (though if he really likes you, which it seems he does, and if he's a nice guy, I don't think this would cause really any trouble). If you just say how you feel, I think he'd probably find it sweet and tell you how he feels to (which is probably that he likes you.

Otherwise, my advice would be that when he flirts with you, make sure to flirt back, and try to one up his flirtation ever so slightly, and see if he reciprocates that. It sound like maybe when you're around him, you get so nervous that you turn self-conscious and think you're imagining things (just a hunch, because I get the same way sometimes). From your account though, it sounds pretty certain that he likes you. So, when he flirts, flirt back. And first of all, be open. Make sure you're not putting out any negative body signals just because you're nervous. If you're not sure what these are, just about any "does (s)he like me" thread will have some answers listing them. When he smiles at you or laughs at your joke, smile back and try to make some casual contact with him. When he holds your hand, start to caress his. When he puts his arm around you, lean in more toward him. When he hugs you, hug him tighter and caress his back. Get the idea? Also, it wouldn't hurt to be the one to initiate some of these things. Anyway, if you do these types of things, it will help in two important ways. 1) It will let him know that his flirtations are more than welcome and his feelings are reciprocated. 2) If he is just flirting because that's the way he is, then he may start to shy away a little more, and you'll know that maybe he doesn't like you (if he backs away, he might just be shy though). But if you just casually and slightly one up his flirtations, you won't have done anything to embarrass yourself so much that you can't face him anymore.

So, hopefully at the end of your next date you'll both know for sure that it's time to kiss the other already! Good luck.
posted by gauchodaspampas at 8:11 AM on May 7, 2007


Alcohol? A couple three drinks could encourage one of you to make the first move. Otherwise, just enjoy the sexual tension, that's the best part.
posted by robinpME at 8:31 AM on May 7, 2007


I've never met a man who goes on "quasi-dates" for absolutely no reason. He got your contact info, pursued you, and has been going on dates with you. By god, he's interested in you. It's an arcane experience called "courting."
posted by lubujackson at 8:40 AM on May 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


Kiss him.
posted by flabdablet at 8:42 AM on May 7, 2007


Aside: This thread is exactly why anonymous threads need followups.
posted by Plutor at 8:44 AM on May 7, 2007


two separate components in relationship-building:

1. do you enjoy each other's company?
2. is there mutual sexual attraction?

these are not the same thing. two occasions i can remember, i dated charming, beautiful women for months, but for some reason never got the urge to jump their bones; it wasn't their fault, it was my fault, we're still good friends. some guys have a lower sex drive than what you may be used to. it doesn't mean they're gay, just guessing here, it means they learned to sublimate this urge when they were younger. you don't know what's going on in his head, but over 90% of the time you'll come out ahead if you treat guys like this as if they were big, confused monkeys who just need loving guidance. good luck!
posted by bruce at 8:46 AM on May 7, 2007


I've never met a man who goes on "quasi-dates" for absolutely no reason.

Exactly. Kiss him already.
posted by yeti at 8:54 AM on May 7, 2007


I call bullcrap on this guy.

I've been in a situation like this about three years ago. It was scarily similar, actually. It petered off because he didn't even have the balls to respond to me when, four or five months in, I needed to know if what was going on was going somewhere or not. That email will go eternally unanswered, I suspect.

In retrospect I know that while he was probably interested in me and attracted to me, he was too emotionally stunted to be an adult about it and deal with his feelings. Now I'm glad I never got involved with him -- it would have been torturous to try to be equals with someone who can't even relate on a grown-up level with you, who has no ability to self-examine, who can not responsibly and maturely deal with or communicate his emotions, who runs away when things get beyond a superficial level.

Look. There's likely a reason this bozo hasn't had any long-term relationships, and why he relies on his charms to keep you interested. I really think that you (and other women being strung along) are better off not hanging back waiting for some guy to deem us worthy. There are way too many totally rad, right-on women in this world doing this or who have done this (myself included) and it's a real waste of our awesomeness.

Secondly: do not, do not EVER let me hear you say someone is out of your league. No one is out of your league. There IS no league. Why assume that subjectively "beautiful" women are of "high calibre"? Even the most attractive people can be hopelessly fucked-up or devoid of character or integrity. Value the things that make you you instead of devaluing yourself before you even get out of the gate. I know this is hard, I'm a woman and I knooooow what it's like. But the way I look at it lately is that if I'm not my own biggest supporter, then who will be?

It sounds to me like you are dazzled by this guy because you feel like you've just won the lottery by getting his attention. Start thinking about the reasons HE is lucky to have met YOU for a change. Treat it like an exercise: try to strip away the bullshit self-loathing and really observe his qualities. Maybe he's truly a fantastic person and that's very nice. But I am willing to bet that the evasiveness, the suave crap, the effusive compliments, the suggestions of travelling together, the charm, the hot 'n' cold act -- it's hiding something. It's keeping you in a holding pattern. Do you want to be kept in a holding pattern?

This is not a kid we're talking about, it's a grown man, presumably at least in his 30s. He's had other lovers. He's experienced enough to know when a girl is flirting with him. He's not afraid to make romantic gestures and he's not afraid to compliment you. He's not afraid to allude to a future together. Why the hell would he be afraid to kiss you? It does not add up. This is NOT to say that he doesn't like you, or that you are not totally amazing. Attributing his fuckedupness to your attractiveness would be like blaming yourself for him mistreating you. It's just not the truth.
awesomeness. Sometimes people just drag other people down in their emotional mire.

Consider learning to think of yourself as high calibre, because you totally are. Fake it 'til you make it if you must.

To recap: bullcrap on this guy. Take the adoration you're giving him and turn it back on yourself.
posted by loiseau at 9:53 AM on May 7, 2007 [20 favorites]


I'm wondering why you're waiting for him to make the first move. "Why hasn't he made a move on me?" Unless not knowing is more appealing to you than knowing, courage up, girl and YOU make the first move!
posted by Lynsey at 9:56 AM on May 7, 2007


My impression of the dating scene is that it has changed in recent years to it being much more common for women to approach men. The problem with this for a woman who would like to take the old fashioned route of being approached is that some men (y'know, the sexy ones that have a lot of women approach them) have gotten out of the habit of approaching, and may even think that they are being too pushy if they make the first move.

Sit a little closer, touch his arm, hug a little closer, try kissing his neck when you hug, keep holding him and pull back a bit to look into his eyes. Kiss him, if he hasn't after all that.

... would really broaden my perception of what I'm capable of attracting

Chemistry does not follow the sorts of rules you are applying here.
posted by yohko at 10:05 AM on May 7, 2007


lubujackson writes 'I've never met a man who goes on "quasi-dates" for absolutely no reason.'

Really? It used to happen all the time. A man would like a woman, enjoy her company and so would be happy to go out with her without being sexually attracted to her. Perhaps there are cultural differences between the US and the UK, or perhaps the times have changed?

I also sometimes went out with women who I found aesthetically attractive, but together we just lacked that chemistry that produced heat.

If I were in this guy's shoes, I'd rather be asked what was going on than have somebody lunge. If you have to reject them, then it's much more embarrassing for all concerned, but if he does like you, he'll let you know.

If he remains evasive, cut your losses -- unless you're interested in a platonic relationship with him.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:05 AM on May 7, 2007


Ask him out on an explicit date. Say, "I thought we'd go out on an official date on saturday. How about dinner and a walk on the beach?" or whatever people do where you live.
posted by about_time at 10:22 AM on May 7, 2007


Here's what I think:

1. He might be out of your league, but obviously he didn't get that memo. Sounds like you are well within his league and he thinks so, too.

2. It is possible that he is picking up strange vibes from your insecurity and doesn't realize that you are interested in him on "that" level.

3. If you don't want to put all your romance eggs in his basket, then I am not sure why not knowing his intentions is causing such an issue for you. I suspect you DO want to put all your romance eggs in his basket, but you are trying to protect yourself. If the curiosity is really just a need to bolster your perception of what you are capable of attracting, I think it is probably pretty safe to assume that he IS someone you are capable of attracting, given the effort he's put into spending time with you. His intentions are separate issue from whether or not he is attracted to you.

4. Why hasn't he kissed you? It is possible that he is attracted but doesn't feel much romantic chemistry. Or it is possible you haven't given him the vibe.

So, what to do? I wouldn't go with your options a or b. I suggest you just go with the flow, all the while trying to show him that you are confident, flirty, interested AND believe you are in his league, rather than insecure, feeling not worthy and flustered. In other words, what would change if you knew he was attracted? Would you be able to calm down in his presence , flirt with confidence and enjoy yourself? Well, pretend that you know he is interested and do all the above. As they say . . . fake it till you make it.

for the record, I am suggesting you fake the confidence level you would typically have in a relationship, not suggesting that you become a phony
posted by necessitas at 10:30 AM on May 7, 2007


Ask him without making the question about you.

During one of your flirty sessions, bring up the topic of past relationships. Oh, I bet you were a charmer when you were in 7th grade. Did you used to go to the skating rink and get nervous about holding the girls' hands? Who was the first girl you kissed? How many dates do you typically go on before you go in for the kiss?

That last question is the one you're working up to. If he says he kisses on the first date, then you have your answer. if he says he likes to wait, then you're still in the dark, but at least you know there's the chance that he's into you.
posted by willnot at 10:47 AM on May 7, 2007


are there any fool-proof devices to tell when someone is in fact digging you without having to...

Nope.

Invite him over for dinner. Make your move. One way or another, you'll know your answer.
posted by Zed_Lopez at 11:01 AM on May 7, 2007


I hate to rain on this parade but, one other possibilty (which absolutely does not mean anonymous is not pretty, witty, etc. enough):

There is no bridge to cross with a kiss here: got a touch of narcissism and he's basking in the glow of your obvious interest (both sexual and non-). In this case, he's a (quasi-) friend and this can go on indefinitely....at least until you stop viewing him and treating him with the overidealization and kid-gloves of a crush, and then you may find he doesn't think you make the grade to be a friend anymore.
posted by availablelight at 11:09 AM on May 7, 2007


There's something up with this guy. Sure, he likes you but he doesn't want to be the initiator so he doesn't have to take responsibiliity for something. Maybe an STD he's not inclined to admit to until he trusts you? Or a long-distance girlfriend he hasn't quite cut loose? Be careful -- I think you are already expressing vulnerability and have given him the power (if not the intention) to exploit that.
posted by thinkpiece at 11:23 AM on May 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


Ultimately this seems to be a simple matter of you wondering why he hasn't kissed you.

Well, why haven't you kissed him?

Really, why haven't you? I mean that as a serious question.
posted by aramaic at 11:27 AM on May 7, 2007


I've been giving him nothing but encouragement in the most subtle way I know how

That seems to not be working. Maybe you should move on to the non-subtle ways you know how.

To compound things, I don't want to just ask him straight out because the last few times I've done that with other ambiguous relationships has yielded disastrous results

Are the results you're getting with your current methodology all that non-disastrous? If you want things to be different than the way they are now, consider doing things differently than the way you're doing them now.
posted by phearlez at 11:56 AM on May 7, 2007


Oh my god. Kiss him!

Is it even remotely possible that he is a considerate, respectful gentleman, unwilling to overstep boundaries lest he offend?

YES!

Look, he sounds like me. To date, I've dated/kissed something like twenty or thirty women. I'm really, really shy when I'm starting a new relationship because -- converse to the 'experience builds confidence' proverb -- I know that many different women communicate in many different ways and some of the ones I've previously found VERY attractive played a whole lot of games, and I don't want to fall for someone who's just being coy and having fun flirting with someone that she thinks is 'safe' to do that with.

So just grab him and kiss him. If you're worried about taking the lead, don't worry, he'll do the rest -- but being a gentleman, YOU have to be the one to cross the line for him to be OK with it.
posted by SpecialK at 12:13 PM on May 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


To compound things, I don't want to just ask him straight out because the last few times I've done that with other ambiguous relationships has yielded disastrous results, not just embarrassing but occasionally friendship-ending awkwardness fests. Also, he is very evasive and indirect, (albeit charmingly so) and I don't think he'd react well to a straight-out interrogation, no matter how flippantly queried.

That's a valid feeling. Could he be having the same feeling?

Anyway, somebody's got to make a move to break the standoff, so it might as well be you. It doesn't have to be a kiss--hand holding can work, it's just not as dramatic.
posted by ken_zoan at 12:39 PM on May 7, 2007


Oh, dude. Hit that shit.
posted by Greg Nog at 12:48 PM on May 7, 2007


P.s. -- I'm actually going through this with a girl right now. We've been going on occasionally very romantic dates for the past month, but we haven't kissed yet. I've wanted to, but haven't had the opportunity. She's small and has a dancer's slender figure, and I pick her up in great big hugs when we say goodbye.. and she always dives right into the hug and then pulls back when it's done, and there isn't the chance for a kiss unless I stop her and pull her back. But at the same time, I don't know if that's what she wants, and she hasn't confided in me yet -- the line hasn't been crossed.

Someone needs to cross the line. Otherwise he'll just go away confused.
posted by SpecialK at 12:54 PM on May 7, 2007


I agree that you're confusing the poor guy.

I know that many different women communicate in many different ways and some of the ones I've previously found VERY attractive played a whole lot of games, and I don't want to fall for someone who's just being coy and having fun flirting with someone that she thinks is 'safe' to do that with.

Agreed. Just do him and yourself a favor and be very upfront about it. Personally, I'm shy enough that I'd prefer to be a gentleman about things than be that guy that sticks his tongue down your throat because you chose to give him five minutes of attention.
posted by kcm at 1:05 PM on May 7, 2007


Anon, where is this set of standards for the league bullshit. There is no league, I dated them em all, attys; drs., strippers and students, teachers, race car drivers, aspiring actresses, daughters of baptist ministers and daughters of catholic priests', musicians, mechanics, waitresses, single moms, married old cougars. There is no league, some seemingly out-of-reach people are really the poeple that you haven't reched out for yet.

TOTAL CRAP, if you want something - go for it! League's be dammned! I'd say if he doesn't respond to your more forward attempts to take this to the next level - he is out of your league, so to speak.
posted by winks007 at 2:25 PM on May 7, 2007


For what it's worth: Back in the day, I was a 23 year old virgin with deep anxiety and rejection issues and even I would have gotten the hint by now and kissed you. There's some piece of this that you don't know about or that you're not letting on. The question on the table is whether or not you're willing to live with that extra piece once it comes to light.

Women who make the first move are pretty fricking awesome, so feel free to go that route. However, you'd get a lot more information if you have a straight-forward conversation. He might be playing coy for a million reasons, some of which are reasonable and some of which are not. Adults in relationships (even flings) communicate this kind of thing and if an open conversation freaks the guy out, then he's not worth the effort to begin with.
posted by Skwirl at 2:29 PM on May 7, 2007


So does this guy like me or what?

He's "telling me I have beautiful eyes and that he wants to take me dancing and traveling and putting his arm around me constantly and such"

Er...

I think, assuming he doesn't make a further move, kiss him properly on the lips next time you say good-bye. He may be shy, or mindful of something (who knows what?), or overawed by YOU, or super well-bred, or unnecessarily tactful, or or or. A smackeroo on the chops should cure all the above.
posted by londongeezer at 2:56 PM on May 7, 2007


Attributing his fuckedupness to your attractiveness would be like blaming yourself for him mistreating you.

Don't put up with this crap; the shit you're getting isn't worth the shit you're getting.

Whoa... Anon likes the guy, doesn't want anything serious, but wants to know how he feels about her. She never said anything about being mistreated.
posted by the jam at 3:35 PM on May 7, 2007


FWIW, my guy did the same thing for the first MONTH. He was freaked out about offending me ("offending" me..... heh), and I'm now the first long term relationship he's had in a LONG time. I finally had enough of the "polite" act, and after a movie, I grabbed the front of his shirt, pulled him closer and kissed him good. When I was done, I told him, "Sorry, I just wanted to get that out of the way". To which he responded with kissing me back.

Again, this worked FOR ME. If you're not the type to grab a guy and kiss him spontaneously, then don't do it.
posted by damnjezebel at 3:52 PM on May 7, 2007


I'm not looking for anything serious...and yes I am seeing another guy -very- casually on the side but he doesn't know about him, so it's not like I have all my romance-eggs in one basket.

Um...if you're not looking for anything serious, then why are you even concerned at all about physical intimacy?

My hunch is that he is indeed a gentleman of sorts - does not want to assume or presume, does not want to offend or be perceived as a sex-fiend or hormone-driven brute.

And I mean no offense by this, but really - if you're NOT looking for anything serious, and you already are dangling another boy on your keyring, then maybe it's YOU who are playing mind-games...?

O/T -- agree with what was said above -- do not think that you are in somebody's league or not -- better or worse than anyone else when it comes to dating, etc. Assuming that you have girl parts and your potential dates have boy parts, you're all in the same league.
posted by davidmsc at 6:15 PM on May 7, 2007


Er...perhaps it's just me...but have you considered the fact that he may be gay? (And perhaps closeted?)

I do all sorts of "romantic-like" things with my gay friends that are things my husband finds tres boring; theatre, gallery openings, champagne and symphony at the park, etc. To an outsider, I'm sure we look like a couple, albeit a mismatched one considering the sheer gorgeousness and stylishness of my friend... and if I were single, and didn't know he were gay...I'd have been a mess of overexcited hormones.
posted by dejah420 at 8:36 PM on May 7, 2007


Hmm.

Sounds to me like he's being a gentleman. Personally, I've never been one to kiss on the first (or second or third or fourth) date. Fifth, maybe, but only if the guy makes a move.

Incidentally, my now-husband and I had been spending a lot of time together and alone, having deep and meaningful discussions, and probably having around 10 dates prior to us starting 'dating' - or kissing. It seems to have worked for me.
posted by ysabet at 8:54 PM on May 7, 2007


Dejah: I usually like your posts, but... ZOMG, would you please put the gay card away? It's girls like you that ruin it for guys with manners. Just because a guy doesn't wear his baseball cap backwards, a pink polo with a popped collar, isn't dripping with Axe products, and doesn't try to stick his tounge down a girl's throat on the first or second date doesn't mean that he's gay.

And getting asked if I'm gay when I haven't tried to pull some shit and I'm just enjoying getting to know someone is really, really starting to offend me.
posted by SpecialK at 9:55 AM on May 8, 2007 [3 favorites]


SpecialK speaks truth.
posted by Dizzy at 10:58 AM on May 8, 2007


Gay.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:24 PM on May 8, 2007


I'm surprised nobody suggested holding his hand first. Shows that you are interested. Then you can always kiss him or he'll get the hint and kiss you.
posted by hokie409 at 8:59 PM on May 8, 2007


Just because a guy doesn't wear his baseball cap backwards, a pink polo with a popped collar,

Kind of ironic since, way back when, nothing said gay like a pink polo.
posted by necessitas at 9:08 PM on May 8, 2007


SpecialK, I don't think that's a fair characterization of what I said. What I did, was offer my experience, nothing more. There's nothing in what I wrote to suggest that men with manners are gay.
posted by dejah420 at 10:05 AM on May 9, 2007


[followup from deleted too-soon anony followup question]

Does this guy like me or what?! (part deux)

A follow-up to my question last week about why a guy I am quasi-dating hasn't kissed me yet... Well I went ahead and asked him what was going on, and now I have no idea how to proceed in light of his answer.

So this guy I’ve had a crush on the past few weeks has continued to take me out to bars and a couple parties. Last night was date #5 and yet, still no moves made. We had a great time, there was flirting, yadda yadda, same as last time, no kissing. Having been given so much excellent advice on how to proceed by the ask.metafilter community, I finally went ahead and kissed him briefly on the lips in response to his body language: leaning towards me seductively, flirting, following me around all night, etc.

He didn't react badly, but neither did he, um, REACT, or address what had happened, and strangely we just continued on with our night as if it hadn't happened. But there was no weirdness about it, no sudden avoidance of each other, nothing to intimate that he thought it was inappropriate. (It was also very, very brief. Okay, I was a chicken and it was more of a peck.)

SO THEN, we're saying goodbye an hour later in front of his house, both slightly inebriated, and neither one of us is doing anything, but we also are just sort awkwardly making small talk stalling for time, to the point that we almost start laughing because it's so obvious that A: he really doesn't want me to just say goodnight and go and B: because I'm waiting for him to do something, kiss me, invite me inside, whatever. A stalemate.

And then, I forget how exactly, we start talking in these "rhetorical" terms about the fact that we've been out on quasi-dates 5 times and are really hitting it off, but that nothing’s happened. To which he responds, "when I meet someone I really like, about whom I suspect there is something special, I don't want to be impulsive and I don't want to screw it up. I want to be very careful with that person since I've made mistakes in my past and have hurt girls before, and I don't want to be clumsy/ham-fisted about this."

Okay, so he has a point in that he's older than I am, and I am constantly being told that I have a fresh and untouched energy. And besides, he's a total flirt, every bombshell in a ten block radius manages to find their way to his side at parties, and a bombshell I am not. So I told him straight out, "Don't treat me with kid gloves, I WANT to be impulsive, am willing to take the risk because I don't have any serious expectations, so stop worrying about it." He then dismissively said something about him being confused about what I was talking about, but maybe we'll continue the conversation sometime when he's sober, was very polite, kissed me on the cheek and went inside.

Um... so.... wtf? Is this his way of nicely saying he's not attracted to me and that I'm too "special" to be anything more to him than just friends? He's an incredibly polite person and I think he probably has this problem a lot, of girls he spends time with admitting they are attracted to him. Today was the first day where he hasn't been in touch, and I don't want to freak him out by contacting him too soon. If he was trying to tell me to buzz off without hurting my feelings then that's what I'll do, but if he wasn't, then how am I to proceed? Am I supposed to pretend none of it happened and play the platonic friend angle with him from now on?
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:19 PM on May 11, 2007


To reiterate my advice in the closed thread: the next date will make or break it.

Ask him to go out this weekend.

If he doesn't try to sweep you off your feet, then I'm sorry it isn't going to happen.

I'm denser than most men you're likely to ever meet, and even I would try to make a move now. He's had the morning sun, a shower, and sobriety to help him make up his mind.

I've blown chances like this, so I can say with assurance that some men can get so discombobulated they don't respond correctly. This whole thread makes me want to cry for the things I've missed & the second chances I didn't get.

So give him his second chance, and if nothing happens, find someone else.
posted by aramaic at 12:32 PM on May 11, 2007


This guy's either a jerk, fairly dim, or sexually confused. You need to take control of the situation. Show up at this guy's place, unannounced, and lay it out on the table, then throw yourself upon him. If the response is anything short of a prolonged makeout session, you need to walk away, permanently.
posted by mkultra at 12:45 PM on May 11, 2007


Move on. Maybe after giving him one more chance, if you're feeling generous. But it really sounds like physicality isn't his thing.
posted by languagehat at 1:00 PM on May 11, 2007


There are some guys who just can't admit they're not interested in someone, there are others who would say what he said and mean it.

Which do you think he is?
posted by drezdn at 1:08 PM on May 11, 2007


I reiterate the call for placing him under homo-suspicion. Either that or just telling him "I want you to kiss me like you mean it." If he can't, well, he's either gay or not into you. At which point, you should probably tell everyone he's gay.
posted by klangklangston at 1:51 PM on May 11, 2007


Or, noting what advice worked for a female friend of mine trying to bed my then-roommate: "You. Me. Sex. Now."
posted by klangklangston at 1:52 PM on May 11, 2007


"You. Me. Sex. Now."

It's worth noting that this is the level of signal that most men need to understand that a woman is willing. I bet klang's roommate still thought, "Oh, hell, maybe she's interested," after that.

I read the first part of this thread and thought, kiss him, you doof. But now -- he's sounding a bit off. Weird drawn-out theoretical conversations in lieu of what is a yes/no question: kiss or no kiss? I'd give it one more go and then find a better way to spend time.
posted by Bookhouse at 2:14 PM on May 11, 2007


Have you two done the watching TV while camped out on the sofa thing yet? Because I've found that that is the perfect way to advance things.

It's possible he's having really conflicting feelings: on the one hand, he really enjoys being with you and might be attracted to you. On the other hand, if you really aren't visually stunning and all the ladies in his past are, he might feel really weird about committing to you on a physical level. Cue the joke about riding a moped.
posted by Deathalicious at 4:45 PM on May 11, 2007


He has baggage, more than an overnight bag. You up for that trip?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:33 PM on May 11, 2007


Ugh. He sounds like a twat. Move on.


You totally gave him the chance to make something of it and he didn't. It's over, gone, done. You don't even like him that much yourself anymore, right? Right?
posted by unSane at 10:10 PM on May 11, 2007


"when I meet someone I really like, about whom I suspect there is something special, I don't want to be impulsive and I don't want to screw it up. I want to be very careful with that person since I've made mistakes in my past and have hurt girls before, and I don't want to be clumsy/ham-fisted about this."

That is just a variation on the classic "it's not you, it's me" line. Sorry. The real clue there is that he's worried because he has "hurt girls before," note he isn't concerned about being hurt himself. It's not like he is afraid of getting too invested and then you'll reject him, he is afraid that you'll get sucked in and fall madly in love with him, like those other girls before, so he is trying as hard as he can to dial down his magnetic charm so he doesn't add you as the newest stop on his trail of broken hearts.

Even if that isn't what he meant, look what he is doing to you. He's making you crazy insecure and, well, obsessed. Even if he does end up wanting you, beyond landing mr. desirable, what is the value of getting involved with someone who makes you feel so inferior?
posted by necessitas at 11:00 PM on May 11, 2007


Even if that isn't what he meant, look what he is doing to you. He's making you crazy insecure and, well, obsessed.
posted by 23skidoo at 9:58 AM on May 12, 2007


oops

Even if that isn't what he meant, look what he is doing to you. He's making you crazy insecure and, well, obsessed.

She's the one making herself crazy insecure and obsessed. Dude is just showing up on dates and being himself: a dude who goes on dates and doesn't put the moves on a lady right away. Anon is sending the message that she's okay with this, because she keeps going on these dates. And then she says stuff like

"Don't treat me with kid gloves, I WANT to be impulsive, am willing to take the risk because I don't have any serious expectations, so stop worrying about it."

when what she seems to mean is "I want YOU to be impulsive, I want YOU to take the risk because I don't have any serious expectations". She's saying one thing and meaning another.

Advice for anon: stop seeing the guy. You seem to take issue with someone not being physical with you right away, and you seem to take issue with making the first move. These two things in conjunction mean you will probably be upset by going on more dates with this guy.
posted by 23skidoo at 10:06 AM on May 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


She's the one making herself crazy insecure and obsessed. Dude is just showing up on dates and being himself

Good point and I should have been more clear. By putting him up on a pedestal and waiting for him to show her signs that he thinks she is worthy, and then becoming obsessed with whatever signals he does or does not send out, she is making herself crazy. The problem about whether or not she is good enough for him is originated in her head and probably exists only in her head. But the fact that he is in her life is what is making her crazy.

Anon - You will never feel equal to him. Even if he gives you all the validation in the world, it isn't going to repair your obvious self esteem issues. You will always worry about the bombshells you think he could/should be dating. This will never be a happy friendship/relationship/casual dating scenario.

Date people who make you happy and who make it clear how they feel about you. Date people who make it clear that you are match, if not surpass, their expectations. Do not date people just because you think it would be ego-boosting if someone like them liked someone like you. If neither of these are practical guides for deciding who to date and who to drop, here's a simple one:

If a guy whips you into such a lather that in 1 week you have to post not 1 but 2 very detailed accounts of your dates with him for strangers to try to translate what he is thinking and how you should act, that right there is the neon flashing sign that says "DROP THIS GUY YESTERDAY," open your eyes and see that sign; follow the warning. Walk away, do not pass go, do not collect 200, do not believe yourself when you think you'll be ok being "just friends." Move on.
posted by necessitas at 1:37 PM on May 12, 2007 [3 favorites]


Man, necessitas is so smart. I'm hiring necessitas to answer all questions on my behalf, so I can retire from AskMeta, move to Florida, and wear cat sweaters.

Here's the part worth reading again:

By putting him up on a pedestal and waiting for him to show her signs that he thinks she is worthy, and then becoming obsessed with whatever signals he does or does not send out, she is making herself crazy. The problem about whether or not she is good enough for him is originated in her head and probably exists only in her head. But the fact that he is in her life is what is making her crazy.

For real. I have felt like a crazy woman, and wondered why why why, and it turns out, it was having that particular man in my life that was the root of my issues.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:22 PM on May 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


If he is like someone you have never dated before the issue probably lies there, you are use to something different so thats why your wondering about him. Im sort of in the same position with a man Ive been seeing now for 2 months. Hes 8 years older and just drives me Wild but I too have never dated this type of man so Im praying for patience LMAO and its okay to have those feelings and want to rush and know how and what hes thinking its totally normal just go with the flow calm cool and collected good luck and please let me know whats going on :-)
posted by soooblesssed at 5:58 PM on April 1, 2008


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