Should I return the damaged bike I bought on eBay?
April 25, 2007 11:44 AM Subscribe
The bike I bought on eBay got damaged in shipping. Should I ride it or send it back?
I bought a used aluminum Cannondale road bike earlier this month. It arrived with a significant dent in the seat tube. I brought it to a bike shop and, although all three of the mechanics in the shop said they would probably ride it, keep an eye on the dent, and not worry about it too much, they pointed out that there is always a possibility that the thing will completely and suddenly blow out. The seller has contacted FedEx regarding refunds, but based on what I've read I'm VERY skeptical that anything will pan out, particularly since the item wasn't shipped with any sort of special insurance.
So what do I do? I'm sure I could return the thing and get my money back (item significantly not as described), but do I really want to box it all back up and start my search for a sweet used bike all over again? I rode it all last weekend and it rides like a dream. How risky is it to ride this (slightly) damaged aluminum bike? I don't ride competitively or aggressively.
Here are some pix of the damage.
I bought a used aluminum Cannondale road bike earlier this month. It arrived with a significant dent in the seat tube. I brought it to a bike shop and, although all three of the mechanics in the shop said they would probably ride it, keep an eye on the dent, and not worry about it too much, they pointed out that there is always a possibility that the thing will completely and suddenly blow out. The seller has contacted FedEx regarding refunds, but based on what I've read I'm VERY skeptical that anything will pan out, particularly since the item wasn't shipped with any sort of special insurance.
So what do I do? I'm sure I could return the thing and get my money back (item significantly not as described), but do I really want to box it all back up and start my search for a sweet used bike all over again? I rode it all last weekend and it rides like a dream. How risky is it to ride this (slightly) damaged aluminum bike? I don't ride competitively or aggressively.
Here are some pix of the damage.
4ster said: ...I believe it is the seller's responsibility to get the product to you as described in the auction.
Actually, I believe it's always the opposite, especially on Ebay - the thing belongs to the purchaser as soon as it's in the hands of the shipper. So your only recourse would be to claim the damage with the shipper. It's easiest if the shipment was insured, but to me that looks like damage due to abnormally rough handling, especially the grooves, so I would definitely try a claim with the shipper. Get the seller to send you a letter confirming that the damage on the box and the bike was not there when they shipped the bike.
I notice the article was eligible for Paypal protection (assuming that's how you paid) . I don't know if that has any coverage on shipping damage, but give it a shot.
posted by Artful Codger at 12:21 PM on April 25, 2007
Actually, I believe it's always the opposite, especially on Ebay - the thing belongs to the purchaser as soon as it's in the hands of the shipper. So your only recourse would be to claim the damage with the shipper. It's easiest if the shipment was insured, but to me that looks like damage due to abnormally rough handling, especially the grooves, so I would definitely try a claim with the shipper. Get the seller to send you a letter confirming that the damage on the box and the bike was not there when they shipped the bike.
I notice the article was eligible for Paypal protection (assuming that's how you paid) . I don't know if that has any coverage on shipping damage, but give it a shot.
posted by Artful Codger at 12:21 PM on April 25, 2007
I'd send it back (if I could). Seat tube failure is a BAD thing, if you value your reproductive health.
posted by jtfowl0 at 12:24 PM on April 25, 2007
posted by jtfowl0 at 12:24 PM on April 25, 2007
I would ask Cannondale directly. They presumably see most tube failures in person eventually, and they'll know what the tolerances are.
posted by mendel at 12:35 PM on April 25, 2007
posted by mendel at 12:35 PM on April 25, 2007
Ouch! That's awful!
Seconding the suggestion to not ride it and contact Cannondale directly. The seat tube's not a place you want a failure to occur.
posted by hollisimo at 12:44 PM on April 25, 2007
Seconding the suggestion to not ride it and contact Cannondale directly. The seat tube's not a place you want a failure to occur.
posted by hollisimo at 12:44 PM on April 25, 2007
Those grooves in the dent look like plier marks to me, groove pliers to be exact. Like somebody fiddled with something and caused some damage in the process. Are you sure those weren't there before shipping?
posted by LunaticFringe at 12:54 PM on April 25, 2007
posted by LunaticFringe at 12:54 PM on April 25, 2007
Upon review, I agree that Artful Codger is right and I am wrong on this one. Nthing the contact Cannondale sugggestion.
posted by 4ster at 1:05 PM on April 25, 2007
posted by 4ster at 1:05 PM on April 25, 2007
Response by poster: Lunatic: I can't say for absolute certain that they weren't there before. However, I remember while unpacking it that the handlebars were ziptied to the frame (although where exactly they were tied I don't remember). Seems like a ziptie could make a similar groove pattern on impact. Had I known it was going to be damaged, I probably would've paid more attention while unpacking it.
posted by hypocritical ross at 1:06 PM on April 25, 2007
posted by hypocritical ross at 1:06 PM on April 25, 2007
Response by poster: Email from Cannondale customer service:
Thanks for the mail and for your interest in Cannondale products. Your best bet is to have the bikes dents looked at by an authorized Cannondale dealer. We can tell you this. If the dents are showing bare metal then the frame is definitely not safe to ride. Some dents are purely cosmetic in nature (which is what these dents look like) and don’t or won’t have any bearing on the frames strength or stability but our testing techs tell us when in doubt don’t ride the bike until it is examined by an authorized Cannondale dealer. Don’t take our word for this by only seeing pictures. A dealer needs to inspect this frame for you. I hope this information is helpful.
posted by hypocritical ross at 1:09 PM on April 25, 2007
Thanks for the mail and for your interest in Cannondale products. Your best bet is to have the bikes dents looked at by an authorized Cannondale dealer. We can tell you this. If the dents are showing bare metal then the frame is definitely not safe to ride. Some dents are purely cosmetic in nature (which is what these dents look like) and don’t or won’t have any bearing on the frames strength or stability but our testing techs tell us when in doubt don’t ride the bike until it is examined by an authorized Cannondale dealer. Don’t take our word for this by only seeing pictures. A dealer needs to inspect this frame for you. I hope this information is helpful.
posted by hypocritical ross at 1:09 PM on April 25, 2007
Yeah, I'd be willing to bet the handlebars with the attaching zipties cause the ding during shipping. Was the seat tube wrapped? Sure is a doozy of a dent... Sucks.
This is the exact reason a lot of retrogrouches snicker about how "steel is real"-- were this a steel frame, you could have it repaired. Not so much with aluminum.
posted by hollisimo at 1:19 PM on April 25, 2007
This is the exact reason a lot of retrogrouches snicker about how "steel is real"-- were this a steel frame, you could have it repaired. Not so much with aluminum.
posted by hollisimo at 1:19 PM on April 25, 2007
I'd be surprised if a ziptie could produce a ding like that. I agree with LunaticFringe—that looks more like a plier mark.
It's too bad the package wasn't insured for replacement value, because it sounds like the problem should be on FedEx's head.
That said, getting back to the question "is it safe to ride?", my answer is "probably." I don't think aluminum has a catastrophic failure mode, and the damaged spot is not very highly stressed in riding.
posted by adamrice at 1:29 PM on April 25, 2007
It's too bad the package wasn't insured for replacement value, because it sounds like the problem should be on FedEx's head.
That said, getting back to the question "is it safe to ride?", my answer is "probably." I don't think aluminum has a catastrophic failure mode, and the damaged spot is not very highly stressed in riding.
posted by adamrice at 1:29 PM on April 25, 2007
Actually, I believe it's always the opposite, especially on Ebay - the thing belongs to the purchaser as soon as it's in the hands of the shipper.
No, although almost every seller would like you to believe that, and frequently state it in their auctions. Sellers particularly like to use that claim to persuade bidders to buy insurance as an option, rather than rolling it into the product's shipping and handling price as a cost of doing business, and thereby keep the initial cost lower for better bids. However, at least with PayPal, if you don't get the product you bought or you get it damaged (e.g. the famous SNAD), then you have a pretty high probability of getting your money back by filing a claim along with a product return.
Sellers love to push this idea of "as soon as it leaves my hands I'm not responsible", but if you read the eBay feedback forums for a little while, you can see that many of them know that's not true and the burden of sale remains on them until delivery confirmation -- and following delivery it must be as-advertised and undamaged to avoid a legitimate return claim. This is as it should be. As a purchaser, I don't have the ability to track or trace packages like a seller does, nor to place the insurance. After all, the seller originated the shipment (at least presumably, though unfortunately not always).
This is probably the biggest myth about eBay transactions between sellers and buyers. Just smile and keep bidding when you read not responsible after shipping on all those auction descriptions; if you're a legitimate bidder and you pay in a protected fashion (CC or PayPal), you're usually protected. Insurance and delivery confirmation protects the seller. But it's a controversial tip, so keep it under your hat, huh?
(Though on occasion, as a purchaser I will sometimes do pay extra for optional insurance when I think the item should have it and don't want any claims hassle if it goes astray.)
posted by mdevore at 1:33 PM on April 25, 2007
No, although almost every seller would like you to believe that, and frequently state it in their auctions. Sellers particularly like to use that claim to persuade bidders to buy insurance as an option, rather than rolling it into the product's shipping and handling price as a cost of doing business, and thereby keep the initial cost lower for better bids. However, at least with PayPal, if you don't get the product you bought or you get it damaged (e.g. the famous SNAD), then you have a pretty high probability of getting your money back by filing a claim along with a product return.
Sellers love to push this idea of "as soon as it leaves my hands I'm not responsible", but if you read the eBay feedback forums for a little while, you can see that many of them know that's not true and the burden of sale remains on them until delivery confirmation -- and following delivery it must be as-advertised and undamaged to avoid a legitimate return claim. This is as it should be. As a purchaser, I don't have the ability to track or trace packages like a seller does, nor to place the insurance. After all, the seller originated the shipment (at least presumably, though unfortunately not always).
This is probably the biggest myth about eBay transactions between sellers and buyers. Just smile and keep bidding when you read not responsible after shipping on all those auction descriptions; if you're a legitimate bidder and you pay in a protected fashion (CC or PayPal), you're usually protected. Insurance and delivery confirmation protects the seller. But it's a controversial tip, so keep it under your hat, huh?
(Though on occasion, as a purchaser I will sometimes do pay extra for optional insurance when I think the item should have it and don't want any claims hassle if it goes astray.)
posted by mdevore at 1:33 PM on April 25, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks for all your tips, folks. I guess I'll be dragging it over to an authorized dealer to have them take a look at it while I wait to hear back from the seller about the claim she filed with FedEx. Really stinks to have to deal with this right as prime riding time is starting up.
posted by hypocritical ross at 3:41 PM on April 25, 2007
posted by hypocritical ross at 3:41 PM on April 25, 2007
I lightened the auction pics, you can almost see that the damage wasn't there before shipping. I tried to zoom in and enlarge, movie style, but not enough info there.
posted by lee at 6:37 PM on April 25, 2007
posted by lee at 6:37 PM on April 25, 2007
Actually, I believe it's always the opposite, especially on Ebay - the thing belongs to the purchaser as soon as it's in the hands of the shipper.
When you pay for something to be delivered, you have entered an implied contract with the seller. The contract includes the expectation that the item will be delivered as described. It is always the sellers responsibility. So, while I agree with mdevore, it is far more fundamental than just an ebay or a paypal thing.
Presumably things would be different if you bought it FOB the sellers loading dock, and you contracted your own shipping company to pick it up..
Of course you also have to consider the practical issues. By all means pursue satisfaction, but measures with teeth, like judgments, might be hard to get..
It's too bad the package wasn't insured for replacement value, because it sounds like the problem should be on FedEx's head.
I don't think shipping insurance is worth anything at all. Especially for used goods and/or goods from non-businesses. Here is an AskMe about the topic - Is shipping insurance worth it? Remember, this is MetaFilter, so there is a strong "yes, insurance is always worth it" bias.
Seat tube failure is a BAD thing, if you value your reproductive health.
Well, it is a bad thing, but I don't see how it has anything to do with reproductive health. Maybe you are thinking of seat posts, but even then.. I've had two seat post failures in the last year, and they really didn't effect me physically at all: the seat is there -> bump -> the seat is not there (or not in the right place, anyway).
Now front fork failure.. I expect that is bad for all aspects of health..
posted by Chuckles at 10:21 PM on April 25, 2007
When you pay for something to be delivered, you have entered an implied contract with the seller. The contract includes the expectation that the item will be delivered as described. It is always the sellers responsibility. So, while I agree with mdevore, it is far more fundamental than just an ebay or a paypal thing.
Presumably things would be different if you bought it FOB the sellers loading dock, and you contracted your own shipping company to pick it up..
Of course you also have to consider the practical issues. By all means pursue satisfaction, but measures with teeth, like judgments, might be hard to get..
It's too bad the package wasn't insured for replacement value, because it sounds like the problem should be on FedEx's head.
I don't think shipping insurance is worth anything at all. Especially for used goods and/or goods from non-businesses. Here is an AskMe about the topic - Is shipping insurance worth it? Remember, this is MetaFilter, so there is a strong "yes, insurance is always worth it" bias.
Seat tube failure is a BAD thing, if you value your reproductive health.
Well, it is a bad thing, but I don't see how it has anything to do with reproductive health. Maybe you are thinking of seat posts, but even then.. I've had two seat post failures in the last year, and they really didn't effect me physically at all: the seat is there -> bump -> the seat is not there (or not in the right place, anyway).
Now front fork failure.. I expect that is bad for all aspects of health..
posted by Chuckles at 10:21 PM on April 25, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Condition: Bike looks brand new, no scratches, gouges, dents.
Frankly, for as much as you paid, I wouldn't be satisfied. I believe it is the seller's responsibility to get the product to you as described in the auction.
posted by 4ster at 11:52 AM on April 25, 2007