Is my son dangerous?
April 25, 2007 7:59 AM Subscribe
I have two children. One is a male teenager [17], and the other is an infant girl. Soon after my daughter was born I discovered that my son had been looking up porn fiction on the net. I was disturbed by the content.
It was predominantly incest based, fantasies of hot juicy mothers and sexually frustrated seductive teen sisters. My son is borderline Asperger’s and is pretty socially awkward, but generally a sweet, kind, young man.
As far as any parent ever knows, I believe he was never sexually abused. He’s never had a girlfriend but seems to like them. I base this on the fact that he buys sports illustrated and hates sport. He is also heavily into manga.
Some background: I’m not a juicy hot mama [think Rosie O’Donnell like] and he was appropriately embarrassed whenever he saw me nursing the baby. He has been appropriate in every way his entire life with his dad and me.
Is he abnormal or a danger to the baby? I never raised the issue with him, he doesn’t know I know.
throw away account is worrisomeson@hotmail.com
It was predominantly incest based, fantasies of hot juicy mothers and sexually frustrated seductive teen sisters. My son is borderline Asperger’s and is pretty socially awkward, but generally a sweet, kind, young man.
As far as any parent ever knows, I believe he was never sexually abused. He’s never had a girlfriend but seems to like them. I base this on the fact that he buys sports illustrated and hates sport. He is also heavily into manga.
Some background: I’m not a juicy hot mama [think Rosie O’Donnell like] and he was appropriately embarrassed whenever he saw me nursing the baby. He has been appropriate in every way his entire life with his dad and me.
Is he abnormal or a danger to the baby? I never raised the issue with him, he doesn’t know I know.
throw away account is worrisomeson@hotmail.com
It's a huge leap from "sexually frustrated seductive teen sisters" to "infant girl".
posted by smackfu at 8:08 AM on April 25, 2007
posted by smackfu at 8:08 AM on April 25, 2007
certain themes seem to come up more often in that sort of literature than others. i know when doing reasonably benign newsgroup searches i've happened upon wholly out of context results such as the above. it's possible that he stumbled upon some stuff and kept digging out of curiosity, the weirdness factor, etc, without intentionally seeking it out.
posted by tremspeed at 8:14 AM on April 25, 2007
posted by tremspeed at 8:14 AM on April 25, 2007
Is he abnormal or a danger to the baby?
No.
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:19 AM on April 25, 2007 [2 favorites]
No.
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:19 AM on April 25, 2007 [2 favorites]
He's certainly not a danger to the baby, or to you for that matter if he was appropriately embarassed while you nursed your child.
I have to confess, I like reading erotica/porn and sometimes that includes incest stories. Not because I have any remote desire to be with any family members or young people, but because a large component of those stories involve irresistible desires and passions between two consenting people.
If he is, as you say, socially awkward and kinda shy, then reading this genre of erotic fiction enables him to escape into a fantasy land where people have sex based on insanely irresistible desires and passions in other people - not based on what would seem to be unattainable social interactions at his school or place of work. Hell, who knows how people get together? It's a random jungle at the best of times.
He just happens to have this niche in incest stories - there are other genres in erotic fiction that have the same elements - some less palatable, some more palatable. Some erotic manga stories also incorporate much of the same elements.
Abnormal? Slightly. But then, as you say, he has borderline Aspergers. This is more of a symptom of Aspergers (if you ask me, for what my unmedical opinion is worth) than the cause.
If you're the progressive liberal kind of mom, you could try steering him towards more literary erotica - perhaps the stuff written by self-empowered female writers such as Susie Bright.
If you want him to stop reading it, erm... good luck. Teenage boys have sought out porn since porn was invented.
posted by almost_wild at 8:20 AM on April 25, 2007
I have to confess, I like reading erotica/porn and sometimes that includes incest stories. Not because I have any remote desire to be with any family members or young people, but because a large component of those stories involve irresistible desires and passions between two consenting people.
If he is, as you say, socially awkward and kinda shy, then reading this genre of erotic fiction enables him to escape into a fantasy land where people have sex based on insanely irresistible desires and passions in other people - not based on what would seem to be unattainable social interactions at his school or place of work. Hell, who knows how people get together? It's a random jungle at the best of times.
He just happens to have this niche in incest stories - there are other genres in erotic fiction that have the same elements - some less palatable, some more palatable. Some erotic manga stories also incorporate much of the same elements.
Abnormal? Slightly. But then, as you say, he has borderline Aspergers. This is more of a symptom of Aspergers (if you ask me, for what my unmedical opinion is worth) than the cause.
If you're the progressive liberal kind of mom, you could try steering him towards more literary erotica - perhaps the stuff written by self-empowered female writers such as Susie Bright.
If you want him to stop reading it, erm... good luck. Teenage boys have sought out porn since porn was invented.
posted by almost_wild at 8:20 AM on April 25, 2007
I don't think your son is dangerous to your daughter. He's interested in grown-up or teenage women, and there's no evidence at all that he's sexually attracted to children.
I do think that you should think about how he's handling the whole question of relationships and sexuality, which might be tough for him. He knows he likes girls, he is intrigued by the whole sex-with-girls concept, and he might not have any idea how he's going to get to that. Are there any resources out there to help kids with Asperger's deal with dating and sex?
posted by craichead at 8:23 AM on April 25, 2007
I do think that you should think about how he's handling the whole question of relationships and sexuality, which might be tough for him. He knows he likes girls, he is intrigued by the whole sex-with-girls concept, and he might not have any idea how he's going to get to that. Are there any resources out there to help kids with Asperger's deal with dating and sex?
posted by craichead at 8:23 AM on April 25, 2007
If I were in your shoes I would go to an on line parent forums(---just in case other parents with a young son has already handled something similar. Could his embarrassment at the feeding, social awkwardness, and Asperger's have him a bit confused about sexuality? Perhaps some sex education for the youngster? As for abnormal or dangerous to the baby---I would seek professional advice--his neurologist? Best wishes.
posted by dsaelf at 8:25 AM on April 25, 2007
posted by dsaelf at 8:25 AM on April 25, 2007
Is your husband concerned? (I mean actually concerned, not just feigning concern so you won't get upset at his under-reaction.) I bet he's not, because he's probably had all kinds of taboo fantasies himself.
This is a boys-will-be-boys thing and I'd let another male judge whether it's serious or not.
posted by desjardins at 8:28 AM on April 25, 2007
This is a boys-will-be-boys thing and I'd let another male judge whether it's serious or not.
posted by desjardins at 8:28 AM on April 25, 2007
I think there is enough of an incest niche in manga that that's probably what made him curious - if anything did, it could just as easily be completely random. The 'net is like that.
Also, something that is easily forgotten: porn involving (alleged or fictional) teenage girls is iffy territory for a grownup's interest but is demographically appropriate for teenage boys. The incest stuff - especially for someone who may not get as icked over social taboos as other people - might actually be more palatable than the whole "barely legal" spin aimed at older consumers.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:31 AM on April 25, 2007
Also, something that is easily forgotten: porn involving (alleged or fictional) teenage girls is iffy territory for a grownup's interest but is demographically appropriate for teenage boys. The incest stuff - especially for someone who may not get as icked over social taboos as other people - might actually be more palatable than the whole "barely legal" spin aimed at older consumers.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:31 AM on April 25, 2007
Oh i should add I would ask a professional not because I think your son may be a danger to his baby sister but I've never been a parent---and would also ask a professional how to burp a baby!
posted by dsaelf at 8:38 AM on April 25, 2007
posted by dsaelf at 8:38 AM on April 25, 2007
Fascination with a taboo is not the same as an erotic fantasy (though at his age they are often still entwined).
Echoing everyone saying not to be concerned about about the baby in the least. It's wonderful that you feel so protective of each of them, but in his case all you can do is let your good influence over him be informed by this discovery.
And never tell him that you found any of this. Scratch that-- blow his mind by joking about it over drinks when he is 35.
posted by hermitosis at 8:39 AM on April 25, 2007
Echoing everyone saying not to be concerned about about the baby in the least. It's wonderful that you feel so protective of each of them, but in his case all you can do is let your good influence over him be informed by this discovery.
And never tell him that you found any of this. Scratch that-- blow his mind by joking about it over drinks when he is 35.
posted by hermitosis at 8:39 AM on April 25, 2007
I agree with the above.
Sorry for sounding crass, but at 17 a boy should have some proper pornography. I'm guessing that he doesn't have a computer in his room or no acceptable broadband connection? If his access to pornography is something you actively police, cartoons (manga) and the same 3 issues of sports illustrated isn't going to cut it. I know, I know, it's awful to think this way about your son, but some permissiveness on your part might end alot of frustration for him.
posted by cowbellemoo at 8:51 AM on April 25, 2007
Sorry for sounding crass, but at 17 a boy should have some proper pornography. I'm guessing that he doesn't have a computer in his room or no acceptable broadband connection? If his access to pornography is something you actively police, cartoons (manga) and the same 3 issues of sports illustrated isn't going to cut it. I know, I know, it's awful to think this way about your son, but some permissiveness on your part might end alot of frustration for him.
posted by cowbellemoo at 8:51 AM on April 25, 2007
no one here can tell you much about your son, but what you've described doesn't on its own indicate anything besides a healthy interest in taboo, which is definitely normal.
I hope its obvious that there's a huge difference btwn pedophilia and an attraction to teen girls. This is a difference that's often glazed over in the media. The latter is not legal to act on for adults, but sexually normal.
posted by alkupe at 8:52 AM on April 25, 2007
I hope its obvious that there's a huge difference btwn pedophilia and an attraction to teen girls. This is a difference that's often glazed over in the media. The latter is not legal to act on for adults, but sexually normal.
posted by alkupe at 8:52 AM on April 25, 2007
Scratch that-- blow his mind by joking about it over drinks when he is 35.
My mom recently found some sears underwear section under some refuse in the basement and she enjoyed a good laugh at my expense (I laughed too).
posted by cowbellemoo at 9:02 AM on April 25, 2007
My mom recently found some sears underwear section under some refuse in the basement and she enjoyed a good laugh at my expense (I laughed too).
posted by cowbellemoo at 9:02 AM on April 25, 2007
It's normal. The only problem is perhaps in the fact that he gets his porn from the internet, where there are few if any limits.
Back in the day, when us guys had to buy it at the store from a friendly clerk, or dumpster dive for mags with the covers ripped off, or find our Dad's/older brothers stash - finding "taboo" porn was difficult to obtain. The internet normalizes and makes accessable alot of taboo behaviour. Heck one of my first exposure to literature porn was about 13 and Anais Nin - Delta of Venus which had incest and many other taboo subjects.
I would be a little worried if his porn started depicting younger and younger girls - but teenagers is certainly age-appropriate for a teen. Don't confront him, and frankly don't block/filter it - just monitor it.
However - in today's pedophile-fearing world, if those images are actually of teens you, he & your family could get into significant legal trouble. Heck, there was one case of a teenage couple who took consenting pictures of each other (and only sent to each other) and both were charged with making and distributing child pornography...
posted by jkaczor at 9:14 AM on April 25, 2007
Back in the day, when us guys had to buy it at the store from a friendly clerk, or dumpster dive for mags with the covers ripped off, or find our Dad's/older brothers stash - finding "taboo" porn was difficult to obtain. The internet normalizes and makes accessable alot of taboo behaviour. Heck one of my first exposure to literature porn was about 13 and Anais Nin - Delta of Venus which had incest and many other taboo subjects.
I would be a little worried if his porn started depicting younger and younger girls - but teenagers is certainly age-appropriate for a teen. Don't confront him, and frankly don't block/filter it - just monitor it.
However - in today's pedophile-fearing world, if those images are actually of teens you, he & your family could get into significant legal trouble. Heck, there was one case of a teenage couple who took consenting pictures of each other (and only sent to each other) and both were charged with making and distributing child pornography...
posted by jkaczor at 9:14 AM on April 25, 2007
I'd just like to second an earlier post- erotica about incest or younger man/older woman is probably the only porn he can find which stars men his own age. From my own *ahem* amateur perusals of the subject, most "straight" porn is about adults, not teens.
posted by bobot at 9:44 AM on April 25, 2007
posted by bobot at 9:44 AM on April 25, 2007
There's nothing abnormal about a 17-year-old kid downloading Super Taboo manga off the Internet. Don't sweat it.
posted by solid-one-love at 9:57 AM on April 25, 2007
posted by solid-one-love at 9:57 AM on April 25, 2007
I like erotic fiction and have spent some time trolling alt.sex.stories over the years. Every once in a while I find a directory of stuff on my computer that I have saved over the years. A lot of it has various marginal/weird themes (incest, space aliens, body swapping, whatever) but I don't have it because I have any particular interest in that theme/taboo, but because it was well written or had something else in it that I enjoyed.
Perhaps the same is true of your kid and what you found? He may have been lookin for just any smut and this is what he acquired by accident, or it contained something else he liked (descriptions of older women? an experienced woman instructing an inexperienced young man?) or that spoke to him.
Erotic fiction on the net just flat-out tends to have weird themes in it. I don't know if that's because the people who tend to write it by nature have unusual tastes or because it's more likely to be an outlet for people who can't get their jollies with the more typical picture/video smut.
posted by phearlez at 10:22 AM on April 25, 2007
Perhaps the same is true of your kid and what you found? He may have been lookin for just any smut and this is what he acquired by accident, or it contained something else he liked (descriptions of older women? an experienced woman instructing an inexperienced young man?) or that spoke to him.
Erotic fiction on the net just flat-out tends to have weird themes in it. I don't know if that's because the people who tend to write it by nature have unusual tastes or because it's more likely to be an outlet for people who can't get their jollies with the more typical picture/video smut.
posted by phearlez at 10:22 AM on April 25, 2007
No, there's nothing wrong with it. If he was into any kind of incest you'd probably have some warning signs by the time he was 17. I'm seeing some other warning signs in the question that may have more to do with his lack of dates, though.
posted by rhizome at 11:17 AM on April 25, 2007
posted by rhizome at 11:17 AM on April 25, 2007
Ditto what many have said. Fantasies can be what some would consider whacked-out and not truly representative of what one actually fantasizes about. I've been quite turned on by reading a lot of erotica that would totally gross me out if the stories were about things that were actually happening in my life. (Not to mention, I might be in jail. ;) )
posted by iguanapolitico at 11:22 AM on April 25, 2007
posted by iguanapolitico at 11:22 AM on April 25, 2007
Erotic fiction on the net just flat-out tends to have weird themes in it.
A-freaking-men. It's quite possible your son was looking through stories and came across some that weren't well labeled. Given that you don't have any way of knowing how far he read in, it's perfectly possible that he read halfway through and then realized, euch, that's his sister! and closed the page.
It's also possible that while he was embarrassed to see you nursing, he also found it kind of hot, and is looking for a way to safely explore the conflictedness he feels about that. I can totally imagine that being the case.
posted by crinklebat at 12:35 PM on April 25, 2007
A-freaking-men. It's quite possible your son was looking through stories and came across some that weren't well labeled. Given that you don't have any way of knowing how far he read in, it's perfectly possible that he read halfway through and then realized, euch, that's his sister! and closed the page.
It's also possible that while he was embarrassed to see you nursing, he also found it kind of hot, and is looking for a way to safely explore the conflictedness he feels about that. I can totally imagine that being the case.
posted by crinklebat at 12:35 PM on April 25, 2007
Yes, not unusual. Not a problem. Every dude your son's age has looked/looks at internet porn, and quite a few of them will look at incest porn. As long as it's not about little prepubescent kids, ignore it.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 PM on April 25, 2007
posted by Justinian at 2:35 PM on April 25, 2007
When I was a teenager, I remember that just about the only place to find pornographic stories about teenagers was to look in the incest section. Besides, the taboo is awfully hot.
posted by Netzapper at 3:45 PM on April 25, 2007
posted by Netzapper at 3:45 PM on April 25, 2007
It's pretty normal to like (or at least look at) porn about things that might be wrong/creepy in real life, and it definitely doesn't mean he would try to act it out. Or, what everyone else said.
posted by Many bubbles at 7:24 PM on April 25, 2007
posted by Many bubbles at 7:24 PM on April 25, 2007
Yes, it's normal. When I found my teenage son had been looking at mild porn, his father had no problems with it at all. After thinking it over, I told my son (1) why some people object to porn (as a feminist I really felt he should at least know what the issues are) and (2) do a better job of hiding it because I really didn't want his younger sister to come across it.
He sat there in what was probably an very embarrassed silence and made sure that he didn't leave tracks in the future. That worked for me.
Also, I've known adult who liked some pretty extreme porn but would never do something immoral in their real life. It is kind of like when I gave my son the lecture about guns and violence on TV (he was maybe in kindergarten at the time) and he said "Mom, I know the difference between what is real and what is pretend." On the other hand, maybe this is a good time for his father (if available) to talk him in general terms about girls and what one might do with them.
posted by metahawk at 9:57 PM on April 25, 2007
He sat there in what was probably an very embarrassed silence and made sure that he didn't leave tracks in the future. That worked for me.
Also, I've known adult who liked some pretty extreme porn but would never do something immoral in their real life. It is kind of like when I gave my son the lecture about guns and violence on TV (he was maybe in kindergarten at the time) and he said "Mom, I know the difference between what is real and what is pretend." On the other hand, maybe this is a good time for his father (if available) to talk him in general terms about girls and what one might do with them.
posted by metahawk at 9:57 PM on April 25, 2007
Infant sister is new. At 17, he'd already fantasized about a hypthetical sister, most likely, since he did not have one, there was no 'Ewww!' factor.
I've always had fantasies about a brother (I'm gay). Never had a brother! Any gay man I've talked to, who had brothers, find such fantasies totally lame. Those that had no brothers, mostly find them hot.
posted by Goofyy at 4:02 AM on April 26, 2007
I've always had fantasies about a brother (I'm gay). Never had a brother! Any gay man I've talked to, who had brothers, find such fantasies totally lame. Those that had no brothers, mostly find them hot.
posted by Goofyy at 4:02 AM on April 26, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
I would not worry.
posted by jessamyn at 8:04 AM on April 25, 2007 [1 favorite]