Sermonfilter
April 18, 2007 7:47 AM Subscribe
I'm looking for examples of a modern day Saul of Tarsus. Individuals who were relatively successful at persecuting others and then suddenly changed sides.
Examples might include closeted politicians who suddenly became advocates for gay rights, or perhaps prominant businesspeople who suddenly became advocates for the poor, or people like Mel White - ghostwriter for pharisees like Falwell and Robertson, who came out of the closet and started a movement working against these people.
Acts 9
Saul's Conversion
1Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"
5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.
"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."
(Saul becomes Paul, author of much of the New Testament and church-spreader extraordinaire.)
Examples might include closeted politicians who suddenly became advocates for gay rights, or perhaps prominant businesspeople who suddenly became advocates for the poor, or people like Mel White - ghostwriter for pharisees like Falwell and Robertson, who came out of the closet and started a movement working against these people.
Acts 9
Saul's Conversion
1Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"
5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.
"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."
(Saul becomes Paul, author of much of the New Testament and church-spreader extraordinaire.)
Best answer: Earl Warren, who supported internment of Japanese (as Governor of California) and then led the Supreme Court into the Civil Rights era (as Chief Justice).
posted by kittyprecious at 7:59 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by kittyprecious at 7:59 AM on April 18, 2007
This isn't exactly what you are looking for, but when I read your question I thought of Robert McNamara.
posted by ND¢ at 8:00 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by ND¢ at 8:00 AM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: First person who comes to my mind is Alabama governor George Wallace, who proclaimed "segreation now, segregation forever", and after he was paralyzed, in his second term as governor, publicly apologized for his racist past and appointed, what was then, a record number of African-Americans to high posts.
If you are looking for a reverse, or at least from liberal to conservative, there is of course, Bernard Nathanson.
Some might say he went from non-persecuting to persecuting - some not, depends on point of view on abortion, obviously, but it is a 180 degree turn in attitudes and viewpoint.
posted by xetere at 8:06 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
If you are looking for a reverse, or at least from liberal to conservative, there is of course, Bernard Nathanson.
Some might say he went from non-persecuting to persecuting - some not, depends on point of view on abortion, obviously, but it is a 180 degree turn in attitudes and viewpoint.
posted by xetere at 8:06 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Lee Stroehbel, author of 'The Case for Christ' and about a dozen other similar books. He's an atheist turned evangelical author.
Dozens of other examples of the same too. It seems certain Christians really, really dig the conversion-from-atheist trope.
posted by bluejayk at 8:07 AM on April 18, 2007
Dozens of other examples of the same too. It seems certain Christians really, really dig the conversion-from-atheist trope.
posted by bluejayk at 8:07 AM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: Hugo Black joined the Klu Klux Klan in order to gain political backing, but became an influential figure in ensuring civil rights after joining the Supreme Court.
George Ryan, governor of Illinois, had an about-face regarding capital punishment.
Though not "modern day" figures precisely, the nobles of the middle ages (St. Francis, St. Claire, and St. Agnes) departed from their well-off backgrounds for oaths of poverty.
And the current pontiff, Benedict XIV, was a former Hitler Youth member.
posted by Smart Dalek at 8:18 AM on April 18, 2007
George Ryan, governor of Illinois, had an about-face regarding capital punishment.
Though not "modern day" figures precisely, the nobles of the middle ages (St. Francis, St. Claire, and St. Agnes) departed from their well-off backgrounds for oaths of poverty.
And the current pontiff, Benedict XIV, was a former Hitler Youth member.
posted by Smart Dalek at 8:18 AM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: John Lennon was famously into indian spiritualism and the maharishi and post-beatles more or less called it a scam.
Harry Houdini was a believer in spiritualism early on until his mother died and discovered that mediums are charlatans. He spent the rest of his life famously debunking them.
David Brock, author of Blinded by the Right.
Cat Stevens famously converted to Islam and is a loud advocate of it.
Tom Cruise famously converted to scientology in the 80s and is now the 'the face and spokesman' of the new religion.
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:20 AM on April 18, 2007
Harry Houdini was a believer in spiritualism early on until his mother died and discovered that mediums are charlatans. He spent the rest of his life famously debunking them.
David Brock, author of Blinded by the Right.
Cat Stevens famously converted to Islam and is a loud advocate of it.
Tom Cruise famously converted to scientology in the 80s and is now the 'the face and spokesman' of the new religion.
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:20 AM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: This episode of This American Life contains a story about a Defense Department worker in charge of selecting high value targets in Iraq who then quit and became a representative for Amnesty International.
posted by Alison at 8:35 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by Alison at 8:35 AM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: There have been a number of environmentalists who have changed sides. One who springs to mind is Lord Melchett in the UK who went from being arrested in anti-GM crop protests while working for Greenpeace - to a PR job for Monsanto.
posted by rongorongo at 8:43 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by rongorongo at 8:43 AM on April 18, 2007
Response by poster: Hey thank you all! These are great!
posted by Baby_Balrog at 8:58 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by Baby_Balrog at 8:58 AM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: Scott Hahn went from trying to prove Catholicism false to being a staunch apologists of Catholicism.
posted by jmd82 at 9:10 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by jmd82 at 9:10 AM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: Lee Atwater repented on his deathbed for many of his right-wing hatchet jobs.
posted by hydrophonic at 9:26 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by hydrophonic at 9:26 AM on April 18, 2007
Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with most of the names mentioned above. Paul's conversion wasn't just an about face. He went from being actively hostile to becoming a seminal thinker in the movement, actively transforming Jesus into Christ in the process. Christianity after Paul was no longer the movement he had been persecuting.
So these analogies are only germane in the most basic sense and miss the real tension at the root of Pauline thought.
A better case might be the broad conversion of former sixties radicals like David Horowitz and Norman Podhoretz to a Conservatism that radically transformed it in the process.
One might argue that both Paleo-Conservatism and the Jesus movement were better for being "untransformed", but I guess that's a sermon for another day. Or another church.
posted by felix betachat at 9:35 AM on April 18, 2007
So these analogies are only germane in the most basic sense and miss the real tension at the root of Pauline thought.
A better case might be the broad conversion of former sixties radicals like David Horowitz and Norman Podhoretz to a Conservatism that radically transformed it in the process.
One might argue that both Paleo-Conservatism and the Jesus movement were better for being "untransformed", but I guess that's a sermon for another day. Or another church.
posted by felix betachat at 9:35 AM on April 18, 2007
Smart Dalek
With regards to Benedict XVI, note that membership in the HY was mandatory for young men in Germany at the time, and by all accounts the then-named Joseph Ratzinger was hardly a model member.
There is much to criticize in the current Pope's past (as well as in Catholicism itself), but inferring 'Herr Ratzinger' is really low-hanging fruit.
posted by The Confessor at 10:25 AM on April 18, 2007
With regards to Benedict XVI, note that membership in the HY was mandatory for young men in Germany at the time, and by all accounts the then-named Joseph Ratzinger was hardly a model member.
There is much to criticize in the current Pope's past (as well as in Catholicism itself), but inferring 'Herr Ratzinger' is really low-hanging fruit.
posted by The Confessor at 10:25 AM on April 18, 2007
Though, I might add, he's still kind of an asshole, even if he's not burning Christians alive anymore.
I was planning to answer until I saw this. Completely unnecessary, offensive, and unsupported.
posted by monkeymadness at 10:34 AM on April 18, 2007
I was planning to answer until I saw this. Completely unnecessary, offensive, and unsupported.
posted by monkeymadness at 10:34 AM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: Ah, got another one: John Henry Cardinal Newman began his career as a virulently anti-Catholic evangelical, then turned to High Church Anglicanism as a member of the Oxford Movement. Following his conversion to Roman Catholicism, he went on to become a major doctrinal thinker. He may well be canonized in the next few years.
Oh, and on preview:
Completely unnecessary, offensive, and unsupported.
Waaa. monkeymadness, simply answer the question or stay out of the thread. AskMe doesn't need you throwing down the gauntlet for Saint Paul.
posted by felix betachat at 10:42 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Oh, and on preview:
Completely unnecessary, offensive, and unsupported.
Waaa. monkeymadness, simply answer the question or stay out of the thread. AskMe doesn't need you throwing down the gauntlet for Saint Paul.
posted by felix betachat at 10:42 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Ariana Huffington was the first person who came to my mind.
posted by MrMoonPie at 10:42 AM on April 18, 2007
posted by MrMoonPie at 10:42 AM on April 18, 2007
Waaa. monkeymadness, simply answer the question or stay out of the thread. AskMe doesn't need you throwing down the gauntlet for Saint Paul.
In hindsight, good point. That's not the purpose of this place. It's also not the place to make statements like Balrog did in the first place, however. Anyway, Mel White was my best example, and Balrog already covered it.
posted by monkeymadness at 10:50 AM on April 18, 2007
In hindsight, good point. That's not the purpose of this place. It's also not the place to make statements like Balrog did in the first place, however. Anyway, Mel White was my best example, and Balrog already covered it.
posted by monkeymadness at 10:50 AM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: I wouldn't believe anything about Lee Stroebel. Having read his Case for a Creator, where he takes the role of a skeptic and proceeds to find and interview four complete nutcases who claim to represent paleobiology, and then swallows every kooky thing they tell him all while occasionally jiggling his "skeptic" nametag -- I can tell you that no one should lend him any credibility.
It's not that he's a Saul. He's a wolf who owns a factory of sheeps' clothing.
posted by cmiller at 10:55 AM on April 18, 2007
It's not that he's a Saul. He's a wolf who owns a factory of sheeps' clothing.
posted by cmiller at 10:55 AM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: Once upon a time, there was a governor of a large state who was a former union leader, an advocate in easing state restrictions on abortion, a man who signed laws easing discrimination against gays and lesbians in certain types of state-sponsored employment (including teaching), and someone who raised taxes in order to balance a budget deficit.
His name was Ronald Reagan.
posted by Asparagirl at 11:48 AM on April 18, 2007
His name was Ronald Reagan.
posted by Asparagirl at 11:48 AM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: Someone like Rotblat, Bethe, or Oppenheimer regarding nukes.
I too thought of McNamara straight away, but I guess the difference is either that he's not sincere or, at a minimum, not a leader in opposition to what he once advanced.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 12:13 PM on April 18, 2007
I too thought of McNamara straight away, but I guess the difference is either that he's not sincere or, at a minimum, not a leader in opposition to what he once advanced.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 12:13 PM on April 18, 2007
Sorry for the derail, but Clyde Mnestra, you have the best MeFi name I've ever seen. I double-dog-dare you to get a sockpuppet and call him A.G. Memnon.
posted by felix betachat at 12:56 PM on April 18, 2007
posted by felix betachat at 12:56 PM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: One of my favorites is Michael Bussee, one of the founding members of Exodus International, a group that tries to use Christianity to "cure" homosexuals. He ended up leaving the group to become life partners with another member of the group.
More information on Wikipedia.
posted by atomly at 3:44 PM on April 18, 2007
More information on Wikipedia.
posted by atomly at 3:44 PM on April 18, 2007
Response by poster: Felix - the lectionary calls for "revelation" or "encountering Christ." Your points are well taken (extremely well taken) but for the purposes of this exercise we're addressing the "conversion of Saul," - the revelation of Christ to a non-believer and the profound change this causes in his life.
monkeymadness, I don't think that statement was at all unneccessary. Paul was an ass. He (albeit inadvertantly) introduced philosophies into the canon that directly contradict the teachings of Christ. Beyond his dissertation on marriage and love in I Corinthians, most of his stuff is rubbish. I apologize if I offended your delicate doctrinal sensibilities.
Too bad James the Just didn't write more.
Clyde Mnestra - Oppenheimer is a fantastic suggestion - thank you.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 3:46 PM on April 18, 2007
monkeymadness, I don't think that statement was at all unneccessary. Paul was an ass. He (albeit inadvertantly) introduced philosophies into the canon that directly contradict the teachings of Christ. Beyond his dissertation on marriage and love in I Corinthians, most of his stuff is rubbish. I apologize if I offended your delicate doctrinal sensibilities.
Too bad James the Just didn't write more.
Clyde Mnestra - Oppenheimer is a fantastic suggestion - thank you.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 3:46 PM on April 18, 2007
Balrog, I just don't think the addendum was related to the question. It could have been left out without lessening the value of the responses. Whatever you think my "delicate doctrinal sensibilities" are, you're most likely wrong. I'll take the apology, forgive you for it, and remind you that your tongue is clearly visible through your cheek ;)
I am, however and in all seriousness, sorry if I derailed your perfectly valid question.
posted by monkeymadness at 4:46 PM on April 18, 2007
I am, however and in all seriousness, sorry if I derailed your perfectly valid question.
posted by monkeymadness at 4:46 PM on April 18, 2007
Best answer: This guy was a BNP (British National Party) activist, and then converted to Islam. Not high profile in any way; He was featured in an regular article in the Guardian about ordianry people's experiences.
posted by Helga-woo at 4:46 AM on April 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Helga-woo at 4:46 AM on April 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 7:51 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]