Crazy friend!
March 28, 2007 1:10 PM Subscribe
My friend is crazy, and does not accept it, and will not consider getting help
I've got a good friend of mine. He displays very irrational behaviour, of which I'll give some examples:
* He flies into huge loud rages in public over things that nobody else notices. For example, if in a group situation, nobody speaks to him for 5 minutes, he'll fly into a rage and start screaming and raving
* He gets into physical fights with hospital staff, hookers, random strangers over some perceived slight. He's gotten arrested a few times, but nothing ever came of it
* He cannot hold a job more than a few weeks because either he things there is some conspiracy, or he suddenly quits
* He obsesses over some women, and starts doing wierd things around them so they notice him. He writes them letters anonymously.
* He barrages his parents, and all the friends of his parents with long emails about how terrible his parents are. Huge CC lists.
* He has physically attacked the members of his family in the past, but I'm not familiar with the details
* He imagines various diseases for himself, and writes a stream of letters to the doctors asking them to recommend him to specialists to treat those dieseases. The thing is, he obviously does not have them, so they refuse! For example, he says he stutters, when he obviously does not (one would notice, right?)
* A conversation with him consists of a long 30 minute monologue, where he rambles on randomly about trivial and uninteresting facts about his life.
* He has no job and a huge problem actually _doing_ anything. I keep suggesting projects to him, and he does them for a few hours, then immediately loses interest.
* He has a very strict schedule that he always follows. You could offer to give him a thousand dollars by 5 pm, and he'd say no, because that's when he usually watches the news.
Those are the negative sides. On the positive side, he has an IQ that is 140 or above. He's very intelligent, and the letters he writes are logically very strong (with just a little flaw in the entire premise). He can hold a reasonable argument, and can be convinced to change his mind, assuming your argument is water tight.
If you met him for a few hours, he would seem like a very intelligent cultured person, but after a while, you start noticing that his monologues are lasting quite long and sometimes do not make very much sense, in the conventional way.
He has not always been this way, it slowly developed. And it fluctuates - I've spent 3 weeks on travel with him, and he was PERFECTLY normal. Then as soon as he went back, he ran crazy again.
He has no friends, his family avoid him as much as they can, and I'm basically the only one still interacting with him. It's a difficult situation, because he refuses to go into therapy, and his only visit to a psychologist just came out with the result that he is a very smart person. So he acts crazy, but he can trick the brain people into thinking he is normal.
Commiting him involuntarily is not an option, as he is not crazy in that sense. He refuses to take any medication or tablets or anything. It's not possible to spend more than a weekend with him without serious embarassment in public.
It's not even possible to find him a project to do, as he has no interest in doing anything suggested by someone external. There is no one who can talk to him or reason with him apart from me, and I've tried, but it brings nothing.
I even convinced him to try for anti-depression pills, and he took them, but no difference in the craziness.
What can one do in such a situation? He's destroying his life and causing his family a lot of heartbreak.
I've got a good friend of mine. He displays very irrational behaviour, of which I'll give some examples:
* He flies into huge loud rages in public over things that nobody else notices. For example, if in a group situation, nobody speaks to him for 5 minutes, he'll fly into a rage and start screaming and raving
* He gets into physical fights with hospital staff, hookers, random strangers over some perceived slight. He's gotten arrested a few times, but nothing ever came of it
* He cannot hold a job more than a few weeks because either he things there is some conspiracy, or he suddenly quits
* He obsesses over some women, and starts doing wierd things around them so they notice him. He writes them letters anonymously.
* He barrages his parents, and all the friends of his parents with long emails about how terrible his parents are. Huge CC lists.
* He has physically attacked the members of his family in the past, but I'm not familiar with the details
* He imagines various diseases for himself, and writes a stream of letters to the doctors asking them to recommend him to specialists to treat those dieseases. The thing is, he obviously does not have them, so they refuse! For example, he says he stutters, when he obviously does not (one would notice, right?)
* A conversation with him consists of a long 30 minute monologue, where he rambles on randomly about trivial and uninteresting facts about his life.
* He has no job and a huge problem actually _doing_ anything. I keep suggesting projects to him, and he does them for a few hours, then immediately loses interest.
* He has a very strict schedule that he always follows. You could offer to give him a thousand dollars by 5 pm, and he'd say no, because that's when he usually watches the news.
Those are the negative sides. On the positive side, he has an IQ that is 140 or above. He's very intelligent, and the letters he writes are logically very strong (with just a little flaw in the entire premise). He can hold a reasonable argument, and can be convinced to change his mind, assuming your argument is water tight.
If you met him for a few hours, he would seem like a very intelligent cultured person, but after a while, you start noticing that his monologues are lasting quite long and sometimes do not make very much sense, in the conventional way.
He has not always been this way, it slowly developed. And it fluctuates - I've spent 3 weeks on travel with him, and he was PERFECTLY normal. Then as soon as he went back, he ran crazy again.
He has no friends, his family avoid him as much as they can, and I'm basically the only one still interacting with him. It's a difficult situation, because he refuses to go into therapy, and his only visit to a psychologist just came out with the result that he is a very smart person. So he acts crazy, but he can trick the brain people into thinking he is normal.
Commiting him involuntarily is not an option, as he is not crazy in that sense. He refuses to take any medication or tablets or anything. It's not possible to spend more than a weekend with him without serious embarassment in public.
It's not even possible to find him a project to do, as he has no interest in doing anything suggested by someone external. There is no one who can talk to him or reason with him apart from me, and I've tried, but it brings nothing.
I even convinced him to try for anti-depression pills, and he took them, but no difference in the craziness.
What can one do in such a situation? He's destroying his life and causing his family a lot of heartbreak.
First off it sounds to me like he needs an MD - a psychiatrist - not a psychologist. What you describe has at least a passing resemblance to paranoid schizophrenia. Antidepressants aren't going to help there. (And I hope you know, you shouldn't have been giving him random pills, no matter what your intentions were at the time). If he had more of a support system, an intervention would be in order to get him to see that he really does need to seek medical help. Unfortunately, he apparently doesn't.
You don't say where you are, but he could be held for observation if he got arrested as a result of doing something harmful to himself or, god forbid, somebody else. If this opportunity should present itself, you could do what you were able to as his last friend/advocate to assure that a clinical assessment takes place. Short of that, you're correct, you probably can't do anything to force him to get help, and that's a shame.
posted by contessa at 1:37 PM on March 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
You don't say where you are, but he could be held for observation if he got arrested as a result of doing something harmful to himself or, god forbid, somebody else. If this opportunity should present itself, you could do what you were able to as his last friend/advocate to assure that a clinical assessment takes place. Short of that, you're correct, you probably can't do anything to force him to get help, and that's a shame.
posted by contessa at 1:37 PM on March 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
There's not much to be done here. If someone doesn't want to change, they don't have to, and they certainly aren't going to.
What you do already is probably the best thing for him that he has going; listen to his rants, and gently redirect him in a saner direction when he gets really off-track. If you can bear to keep doing this I'm sure it is good for him. A therapist really would not be able to do much else, and may not be able to get over the wall of distrust; you, as his friend, are already inside that wall and probably have as good a chance of effecting meaningful change as anybody in the world.
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:40 PM on March 28, 2007
What you do already is probably the best thing for him that he has going; listen to his rants, and gently redirect him in a saner direction when he gets really off-track. If you can bear to keep doing this I'm sure it is good for him. A therapist really would not be able to do much else, and may not be able to get over the wall of distrust; you, as his friend, are already inside that wall and probably have as good a chance of effecting meaningful change as anybody in the world.
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:40 PM on March 28, 2007
It sounds to me like he has OCD, or at least a form of it. (Based on the 5:00 watching-the-news part) I would look for more information on what he may or may not be dealing with and that will hopefully lead you to resources to you deal with it too. Maybe he's just overly bored and needs to be motivated to do something. Most of the time that requires self-motivation and maybe he lacks that.
I suspect he looks to you with a respect he doesn't have for his family, who have bailed on him. Do everything in your power to let him know you're there for him, try not to write him off as crazy and try to help him as best you can. Anything you can do will be a blessing, I'm sure.
posted by slyboots421 at 1:43 PM on March 28, 2007
I suspect he looks to you with a respect he doesn't have for his family, who have bailed on him. Do everything in your power to let him know you're there for him, try not to write him off as crazy and try to help him as best you can. Anything you can do will be a blessing, I'm sure.
posted by slyboots421 at 1:43 PM on March 28, 2007
Say the following to yourself, and mean it:
"Thank god it's not my life."
Repeat as necessary.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 1:52 PM on March 28, 2007
"Thank god it's not my life."
Repeat as necessary.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 1:52 PM on March 28, 2007
Unless you're careful, he'll drag you down with him, one of these days.
I'm serious. One day he'll pick a fight with the wrong person, in the wrong part of town, when the cops aren't around.
Personally I'd abandon him to his fate, but then again I'm an amoral monster. If you can't do that, then at least don't hang out with him at night, in unfamiliar parts of town, or in any place that isn't well-lit and nicely occupied with plenty of witnesses who could attest to your sanity and decent behavior. In my limited experience, these things always go badly. Ditch him.
...then change your locks.
posted by aramaic at 2:00 PM on March 28, 2007
I'm serious. One day he'll pick a fight with the wrong person, in the wrong part of town, when the cops aren't around.
Personally I'd abandon him to his fate, but then again I'm an amoral monster. If you can't do that, then at least don't hang out with him at night, in unfamiliar parts of town, or in any place that isn't well-lit and nicely occupied with plenty of witnesses who could attest to your sanity and decent behavior. In my limited experience, these things always go badly. Ditch him.
...then change your locks.
posted by aramaic at 2:00 PM on March 28, 2007
...Nobody is responsible for his happiness. As long as he is an unmedicated schizophrenic, happiness is not in the picture.
You might be able to file an advisory, non-emergency "report" with the police department and/or department of social services. At least then you can keep the public authorities on notice that he is potentially dangerous, although they can't preemptively do anything about it.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 2:09 PM on March 28, 2007
You might be able to file an advisory, non-emergency "report" with the police department and/or department of social services. At least then you can keep the public authorities on notice that he is potentially dangerous, although they can't preemptively do anything about it.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 2:09 PM on March 28, 2007
You might speak to a therapist about this yourself; they may be able to help you with your own feelings about the situation (which sounds incredibly difficult), and they will know the options in the mental health system in your area.
Don't give him anti-depressants outside of a doctor's advice-- for example if he is bipolar they can make it much worse. (It doesn't necessarily sound like he is, I just offer this as an example.)
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:16 PM on March 28, 2007
Don't give him anti-depressants outside of a doctor's advice-- for example if he is bipolar they can make it much worse. (It doesn't necessarily sound like he is, I just offer this as an example.)
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:16 PM on March 28, 2007
(The OP didn't give necessarily give him antidepressants - he "convinced him to try for" them).
posted by tristeza at 2:19 PM on March 28, 2007
posted by tristeza at 2:19 PM on March 28, 2007
Yes - didn't mean to imply that you've done anything wrong, OP - just in the future, in case you might be tempted to, know that there is a serious possible down side.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:52 PM on March 28, 2007
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:52 PM on March 28, 2007
If you're doing all this out of genuine concern for him, you'll be in for a hard time. If it's just to "fix" him, that's probably the wrong angle of approach.
Are you in touch with his family? If you're able to get them involved, out of genuine concern for him, it might help. Whatever baggage there is between them and him - judging by your description - will make it really hard though.
You say he's resistant to the entire idea of therapy and/or meds. You also say you were able to have him try anti-depressants (I suppose under the framework that you thought depression was his main problem). How did you approach that? If he was able to overcome his reluctance in that case, a similar approach might work for the larger picture and a clinical psychologist (who'd be able to refer to a MD if need be).
Getting someone to get help, when they emphatically don't want it, is nigh impossible. That's not very helpful, or encouraging, but it's true.
Also, can we not try to diagnose the guy through a one-time anonymous summary of second-hand incidents and descriptions? That list can sound like depression, schizophrenia, personality disorders, OCD, or some massive co-morbidity of all of the above.
posted by CKmtl at 2:58 PM on March 28, 2007
Are you in touch with his family? If you're able to get them involved, out of genuine concern for him, it might help. Whatever baggage there is between them and him - judging by your description - will make it really hard though.
You say he's resistant to the entire idea of therapy and/or meds. You also say you were able to have him try anti-depressants (I suppose under the framework that you thought depression was his main problem). How did you approach that? If he was able to overcome his reluctance in that case, a similar approach might work for the larger picture and a clinical psychologist (who'd be able to refer to a MD if need be).
Getting someone to get help, when they emphatically don't want it, is nigh impossible. That's not very helpful, or encouraging, but it's true.
Also, can we not try to diagnose the guy through a one-time anonymous summary of second-hand incidents and descriptions? That list can sound like depression, schizophrenia, personality disorders, OCD, or some massive co-morbidity of all of the above.
posted by CKmtl at 2:58 PM on March 28, 2007
It's intriguing that he was perfectly fine during 3 weeks of travel.
I have a friend who seems to be slowly, over a period of years, becoming a paranoid schizophrenic, who at first only had symptoms after he spent time around petroleum based solvents in a freshly painted room, say, or a newly constructed building. Perhaps part of your friend's problem has to do with something in his everyday environment which he did not encounter when the two of you were traveling.
posted by jamjam at 3:29 PM on March 28, 2007
I have a friend who seems to be slowly, over a period of years, becoming a paranoid schizophrenic, who at first only had symptoms after he spent time around petroleum based solvents in a freshly painted room, say, or a newly constructed building. Perhaps part of your friend's problem has to do with something in his everyday environment which he did not encounter when the two of you were traveling.
posted by jamjam at 3:29 PM on March 28, 2007
I have absolutely no expertise in this particular area, so take this suggestion with a huge pile of salt.
You say that your friend has frequent periods of lucidity and rationality. Perhaps the next time he is rational and lucid, you can calmly, reasonably, considerately, but forcefully confront him about his life. Tell him that you care about him and are worried that he is in serious trouble. Do not get into an argument with him, as he will likely find some logical way to pick apart what you say. Review his behaviors in as stark terms as you have done in this post: tell him that he has lost his family, his friends, his livelihood, etc. [Or say something like "I have a friend who frequently flies into rages that frighten the people around him for no apparent reason. That friend is you." etc.] If you think you can do it in a way that doesn't sound like an ultimatum, say that he is in danger of losing you, too. Tell him that he needs to do something drastic - perhaps as drastic as voluntarily going to a mental health facility. Tell him that you think he needs to do it NOW, and that you will stand by him through whatever it takes to make him better.
I don't know that this will change his behavior. He may fly into a rage at you; he may try to argue you down; he may just ignore you. But I think this is about the most that you can do, and if it doesn't work, at least you can live with the miniscule consolation that you tried your best.
posted by googly at 3:36 PM on March 28, 2007
You say that your friend has frequent periods of lucidity and rationality. Perhaps the next time he is rational and lucid, you can calmly, reasonably, considerately, but forcefully confront him about his life. Tell him that you care about him and are worried that he is in serious trouble. Do not get into an argument with him, as he will likely find some logical way to pick apart what you say. Review his behaviors in as stark terms as you have done in this post: tell him that he has lost his family, his friends, his livelihood, etc. [Or say something like "I have a friend who frequently flies into rages that frighten the people around him for no apparent reason. That friend is you." etc.] If you think you can do it in a way that doesn't sound like an ultimatum, say that he is in danger of losing you, too. Tell him that he needs to do something drastic - perhaps as drastic as voluntarily going to a mental health facility. Tell him that you think he needs to do it NOW, and that you will stand by him through whatever it takes to make him better.
I don't know that this will change his behavior. He may fly into a rage at you; he may try to argue you down; he may just ignore you. But I think this is about the most that you can do, and if it doesn't work, at least you can live with the miniscule consolation that you tried your best.
posted by googly at 3:36 PM on March 28, 2007
I really don't have an answer. I just wanted to say God bless you for being friends with this man.
It's hard. You know it's hard, you know that he's suffering, and, unlike most of us, you see him. Most of us would just instinctually avoid him, not even consciously notice him. So bless you.
IANAD, but I really don't think you can trick him into getting help. You say he's intelligent; how would he reply to this thread, not knowing it's about him? Someday when you're talking to him at his most with-it, let him know you're concerned.
posted by roll truck roll at 4:23 PM on March 28, 2007
It's hard. You know it's hard, you know that he's suffering, and, unlike most of us, you see him. Most of us would just instinctually avoid him, not even consciously notice him. So bless you.
IANAD, but I really don't think you can trick him into getting help. You say he's intelligent; how would he reply to this thread, not knowing it's about him? Someday when you're talking to him at his most with-it, let him know you're concerned.
posted by roll truck roll at 4:23 PM on March 28, 2007
To continue my earlier comment, if he fits the stereotype to the last decimal place, and lives in his parent's basement, make sure he isn't being exposed to carbon monoxide from the furnace.
posted by jamjam at 4:49 PM on March 28, 2007
posted by jamjam at 4:49 PM on March 28, 2007
Seconding CKmtl...do NOT assume it's paranoid schizophrenia- a number of different possibilities for this diagnosis popped up in my mind as I was reading your post. I truly hope your response to these answers is not to think of your friend to yourself as "the schizophrenic" from now on. While it may be fine for people to speculate as to what's going on with him, please don't label him in your mind, or it's going to make this interaction with him even more difficult for you and even less productive.
Talk to him as your friend, as a human being. Ask him if he is content with his life the way it is now, and even if he says yes (which it sounds like he won't), ask him what he would change. Then insert your "water-tight" argument re: why seeing a psychologist (yes, psychologist first- then he or she will refer to a psychiatrist) for MULTIPLE visits would be a necessary, proactive way to go about making these changes.
As a sidenote, I admire what you're trying to do- helping your friend and remaining a source of support for him. But don't forget about yourself and the burden all this is on you (and it is a burden- you are clearly stressed about it). Take time for yourself and do things that make YOU feel good...this may include seeing a therapist, as someone else suggested. Also, don't beat yourself up if this conversation doesn't have the results you've planned. No matter what, you've taken a step toward helping him, and you've at least "planted the seeds" in his mind about the changes that need to take place.
posted by liberalintellect at 5:45 PM on March 28, 2007
Talk to him as your friend, as a human being. Ask him if he is content with his life the way it is now, and even if he says yes (which it sounds like he won't), ask him what he would change. Then insert your "water-tight" argument re: why seeing a psychologist (yes, psychologist first- then he or she will refer to a psychiatrist) for MULTIPLE visits would be a necessary, proactive way to go about making these changes.
As a sidenote, I admire what you're trying to do- helping your friend and remaining a source of support for him. But don't forget about yourself and the burden all this is on you (and it is a burden- you are clearly stressed about it). Take time for yourself and do things that make YOU feel good...this may include seeing a therapist, as someone else suggested. Also, don't beat yourself up if this conversation doesn't have the results you've planned. No matter what, you've taken a step toward helping him, and you've at least "planted the seeds" in his mind about the changes that need to take place.
posted by liberalintellect at 5:45 PM on March 28, 2007
Look into aspergers as well. Though to my knowledge you can't develop it.
posted by phrontist at 5:58 PM on March 28, 2007
posted by phrontist at 5:58 PM on March 28, 2007
Unless you're careful, he'll drag you down with him, one of these days.
I'm serious. One day he'll pick a fight with the wrong person, in the wrong part of town, when the cops aren't around.
This is the best piece of advice that's been offered to you. It's one thing to hang out with somebody who has delusions, hears voices and holds long conversations with invisible people. It's quite another to hang out with someone who picks fights with random strangers. Fights have a way of spinning out of control and drawing you into them, especially if you are a guy too. You could find yourself facing felony charges or picking your teeth up off the sidewalk all because this "friend" decided he didn't like the looks of someone.
He has no friends, his family avoid him as much as they can, and I'm basically the only one still interacting with him.
Well, that should tell you something. And who cares how smart the guy is? I've known quite a few people who weren't exactly geniuses but were very sweet, very giving, very decent people. I really enjoyed having them in my life. I got something out of my friendships with them. This guy doesn't seem to be giving you anything at all.
Cut and run. You've tried your very best to help him and he doesn't want to be helped. He has no friends because, to be perfectly frank, he doesn't have much to offer as a friend.
posted by jason's_planet at 8:28 PM on March 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm serious. One day he'll pick a fight with the wrong person, in the wrong part of town, when the cops aren't around.
This is the best piece of advice that's been offered to you. It's one thing to hang out with somebody who has delusions, hears voices and holds long conversations with invisible people. It's quite another to hang out with someone who picks fights with random strangers. Fights have a way of spinning out of control and drawing you into them, especially if you are a guy too. You could find yourself facing felony charges or picking your teeth up off the sidewalk all because this "friend" decided he didn't like the looks of someone.
He has no friends, his family avoid him as much as they can, and I'm basically the only one still interacting with him.
Well, that should tell you something. And who cares how smart the guy is? I've known quite a few people who weren't exactly geniuses but were very sweet, very giving, very decent people. I really enjoyed having them in my life. I got something out of my friendships with them. This guy doesn't seem to be giving you anything at all.
Cut and run. You've tried your very best to help him and he doesn't want to be helped. He has no friends because, to be perfectly frank, he doesn't have much to offer as a friend.
posted by jason's_planet at 8:28 PM on March 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
Wow.
While I agree with CKmtl, I'd suggest you read up on the disorders cited by everybody, and do not miss Borderline Personality Disorder while you're at it.
If after reading about different disorders you feel you can guess with some accuracy what he might have (calm down, people, no one is telling him to diagnose the guy via wikipedia, count to ten and keep reading) try to find an online support group for friends/family of people with PDs.
If the symptoms are actually consistent with something serious like Narcissistic or Borderline PD, there are going to be tons of support groups and resources. They are the ones that can help you find a way to help your friend. If tehre is a way, mind you.
Let me just tell you what a psychiatrist told me about a Borderline case I came in contact: steer clear. He actually said "if you're not immediate family, don't bring this into your life. And even if you were, I'd ask you to consider severing the bonds."
Good luck. And please remember to be selfish, for your own sake.
posted by ArchBr at 8:32 PM on March 28, 2007
While I agree with CKmtl, I'd suggest you read up on the disorders cited by everybody, and do not miss Borderline Personality Disorder while you're at it.
If after reading about different disorders you feel you can guess with some accuracy what he might have (calm down, people, no one is telling him to diagnose the guy via wikipedia, count to ten and keep reading) try to find an online support group for friends/family of people with PDs.
If the symptoms are actually consistent with something serious like Narcissistic or Borderline PD, there are going to be tons of support groups and resources. They are the ones that can help you find a way to help your friend. If tehre is a way, mind you.
Let me just tell you what a psychiatrist told me about a Borderline case I came in contact: steer clear. He actually said "if you're not immediate family, don't bring this into your life. And even if you were, I'd ask you to consider severing the bonds."
Good luck. And please remember to be selfish, for your own sake.
posted by ArchBr at 8:32 PM on March 28, 2007
Let me share a story from a couple of years ago.
I'm hanging out in a bar in Queens. I start talking with this guy. He's by himself. We get to talking. We're goofing around. I think "Hey, I might have a new friend here. Awesome!" So we get into a cab and go to another bar. He's a little obnoxious but I ignore it, minimize it, wave it away.
We get to this bar. Get our drinks. Some guy two seats down leaves to go to the bathroom. My new "friend" decides to start drinking from the other guy's pint that he left on the bar. The bartender was appalled. She told him, through clenched teeth, that he was never to darken the door of this particular establishment again.
I wrote him off because you can't be hanging out with somebody who does stupid provocative shit that can get you into a fight situation, a fight that you don't want, a fight that you wouldn't get into in the first place because you have some basic manners, some basic people skills.
See what I mean?
posted by jason's_planet at 8:38 PM on March 28, 2007
I'm hanging out in a bar in Queens. I start talking with this guy. He's by himself. We get to talking. We're goofing around. I think "Hey, I might have a new friend here. Awesome!" So we get into a cab and go to another bar. He's a little obnoxious but I ignore it, minimize it, wave it away.
We get to this bar. Get our drinks. Some guy two seats down leaves to go to the bathroom. My new "friend" decides to start drinking from the other guy's pint that he left on the bar. The bartender was appalled. She told him, through clenched teeth, that he was never to darken the door of this particular establishment again.
I wrote him off because you can't be hanging out with somebody who does stupid provocative shit that can get you into a fight situation, a fight that you don't want, a fight that you wouldn't get into in the first place because you have some basic manners, some basic people skills.
See what I mean?
posted by jason's_planet at 8:38 PM on March 28, 2007
Clearly he's lucky to have a friend in you. However, unless he goes off the rails and does something violent and/or gets arrested for his behaviour, he won't get the appropriate help he needs. Of course he doesn't see the mess created by his own hand around him. Untill he gets hospitalized, before someone kicks the shit out of him, he'll be running his course.
His family should have charged him with assault, because only then, under a court order suggested by the victim ]family[, will he be sent for an evaluation by a psychiatrist. Not just one time either. A stay for observation, call it.
I've had some experience with this... one weekend, a date. Scary shit. I just met the woman. I wasn't going to let the person swing in air helplessly though. I knew she was troubled. Hell, I was in trouble just hanging out with her. I dropped off said date at a hospital, spoke to the doctor the reason for me bringing her there and left. Actually, they thought it was just a lovers tiff, till they found she stole hospital supplies and she told them we were going to Mars. I kid you not. So they kept her under observation, but couldn't hold her against her will. She left and showed up at 2am looking for me, raising hell in the neighbourhood...it's a longer story, but we had to charge her with assault ]that was the net result of the story[ and recommend psychiatric evaluation, court ordered.
I have another friend who under stress would get manic and delusional. Her Mom's funeral, for instance. She kept it together till the end. It was traumatic for her, sudden seizure at the hair salon to life support, to brain dead. A wonderful person that Mom was...but I digress.
I had to gingerly escort her to the hospital. Don't know how I did it, but she went along. Stayed a spell there, I'd go visit her.
Today she is on appropriate meds, carbomazapine is one of them and hasn't had any recurrences. Yes, she's a mensa member too. Even got married. Two artists they were.
Good luck convincing him he needs his mind to stop spinning out of control and get meds, along with psychotherapy.
A shame folks like Mr.Gunn and jayder have so much compassion for their 'friends'. Y'all don't understand how some people's minds work, or not. I don't. But read "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat" by Oliver Sacks. You could be fine one day, and the next, your mind has tricked you into thinking something else, sometimes out of the blue. Whachagonnado¿
posted by alicesshoe at 8:52 PM on March 28, 2007
His family should have charged him with assault, because only then, under a court order suggested by the victim ]family[, will he be sent for an evaluation by a psychiatrist. Not just one time either. A stay for observation, call it.
I've had some experience with this... one weekend, a date. Scary shit. I just met the woman. I wasn't going to let the person swing in air helplessly though. I knew she was troubled. Hell, I was in trouble just hanging out with her. I dropped off said date at a hospital, spoke to the doctor the reason for me bringing her there and left. Actually, they thought it was just a lovers tiff, till they found she stole hospital supplies and she told them we were going to Mars. I kid you not. So they kept her under observation, but couldn't hold her against her will. She left and showed up at 2am looking for me, raising hell in the neighbourhood...it's a longer story, but we had to charge her with assault ]that was the net result of the story[ and recommend psychiatric evaluation, court ordered.
I have another friend who under stress would get manic and delusional. Her Mom's funeral, for instance. She kept it together till the end. It was traumatic for her, sudden seizure at the hair salon to life support, to brain dead. A wonderful person that Mom was...but I digress.
I had to gingerly escort her to the hospital. Don't know how I did it, but she went along. Stayed a spell there, I'd go visit her.
Today she is on appropriate meds, carbomazapine is one of them and hasn't had any recurrences. Yes, she's a mensa member too. Even got married. Two artists they were.
Good luck convincing him he needs his mind to stop spinning out of control and get meds, along with psychotherapy.
A shame folks like Mr.Gunn and jayder have so much compassion for their 'friends'. Y'all don't understand how some people's minds work, or not. I don't. But read "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat" by Oliver Sacks. You could be fine one day, and the next, your mind has tricked you into thinking something else, sometimes out of the blue. Whachagonnado¿
posted by alicesshoe at 8:52 PM on March 28, 2007
IMO: It's often more difficult dealing with mental disorder in the inteligent, especially when they resist. Sadly, if he gets in legal trouble, he's as likely to end up destroyed, in jail, as getting proper psyche evaluation. Maybe more likely the former.
posted by Goofyy at 12:25 AM on March 29, 2007
posted by Goofyy at 12:25 AM on March 29, 2007
the man is clearly insane. you are powerless to change the situation.
it is indeed sad, and I am sorry about that.
posted by matteo at 7:35 AM on March 29, 2007
it is indeed sad, and I am sorry about that.
posted by matteo at 7:35 AM on March 29, 2007
from what you've described, the guy isn't a schizophrenic, but has an element of personality disorder. the closest thing i found in wiki is borderline, but i recall somthing else called 'behavioral personality disorder' which was pretty accurate psychospeak for 'asshole.'
but, joking aside, yeah, it's a condition. based on the interference in his existence--the lost jobs, for example, it's probably to the level of illness vs. disorder. it's hard to treat because the main components are complex social interaction, and his thought process for this is significantly deviant. medication may help, but the whole science of psychiatry is just educated guesswork.
a competent psychiatrist will probably come up with 2-3 diagnosis for him. the only way to know if meds will work is to try them. i'd guess that the only success in counseling at this time is to get him to try meds.
posted by lester's sock puppet at 7:49 PM on March 29, 2007
but, joking aside, yeah, it's a condition. based on the interference in his existence--the lost jobs, for example, it's probably to the level of illness vs. disorder. it's hard to treat because the main components are complex social interaction, and his thought process for this is significantly deviant. medication may help, but the whole science of psychiatry is just educated guesswork.
a competent psychiatrist will probably come up with 2-3 diagnosis for him. the only way to know if meds will work is to try them. i'd guess that the only success in counseling at this time is to get him to try meds.
posted by lester's sock puppet at 7:49 PM on March 29, 2007
I had a very similar problem. My friend was unhappy, and
I was able to convince him to try Prozac, which didn't have the mind control buzz of anti-psychotics that alienates him.
Prozac helped control his anxiety, which is often a trigger
for schizophrenic symptoms. It's a first step towards clearing his head out, so that he might be more ammenable to cognitivive therapy, or even trying some of the newer atypical antipsychotics. This is the most effective
way of treating the paranoid schizophrenic who is certain
that all his suspicions are valid that I have been able to come up with.
posted by nighthawks at 9:55 PM on March 29, 2007
I was able to convince him to try Prozac, which didn't have the mind control buzz of anti-psychotics that alienates him.
Prozac helped control his anxiety, which is often a trigger
for schizophrenic symptoms. It's a first step towards clearing his head out, so that he might be more ammenable to cognitivive therapy, or even trying some of the newer atypical antipsychotics. This is the most effective
way of treating the paranoid schizophrenic who is certain
that all his suspicions are valid that I have been able to come up with.
posted by nighthawks at 9:55 PM on March 29, 2007
Let's be clear on three things:
1. I am not a psychologist, psychiatrist, doctor of any kind, or social worker.
2. Your friend will have a problem when he decides that he has a problem. Not a moment before. You can't (help) solve a problem that doesn't exist.
3. You are expressing a problem with the behaviors exhibited by this friend. You can deal with (maybe even solve) a problem that you acknowledge is yours.
How can you solve your problem? First you must define it. To me, it sounds like your problem is that this man's problems with his family and time management/motivation make you uncomfortable.
If that is correct, the world is your oyster. If it's not, dig a little deeper and find out what your problem is here. And maybe talk to a professional.
posted by bilabial at 10:29 PM on March 29, 2007
1. I am not a psychologist, psychiatrist, doctor of any kind, or social worker.
2. Your friend will have a problem when he decides that he has a problem. Not a moment before. You can't (help) solve a problem that doesn't exist.
3. You are expressing a problem with the behaviors exhibited by this friend. You can deal with (maybe even solve) a problem that you acknowledge is yours.
How can you solve your problem? First you must define it. To me, it sounds like your problem is that this man's problems with his family and time management/motivation make you uncomfortable.
If that is correct, the world is your oyster. If it's not, dig a little deeper and find out what your problem is here. And maybe talk to a professional.
posted by bilabial at 10:29 PM on March 29, 2007
It sounds to me like he has OCD, or at least a form of it. (Based on the 5:00 watching-the-news part)
I have OCD and it doesn't sound like OCD at all to me. Paranoid schitzophrenia or manic-depression or both? If that's possible?
posted by agregoli at 8:51 AM on March 30, 2007
I have OCD and it doesn't sound like OCD at all to me. Paranoid schitzophrenia or manic-depression or both? If that's possible?
posted by agregoli at 8:51 AM on March 30, 2007
To me, it sounds like your problem is that this man's problems with his family and time management/motivation make you uncomfortable.
Did you notice the first two things he mentioned in his question:
Don't listen to this, Anonymous. She is muddying the waters here. You don't have Deep Issues that require years of therapy. You are not the problem. Your "friend" has the problem. So cut ties with him and fill your life with people who will add to it, not subtract.
posted by jason's_planet at 4:11 PM on March 30, 2007
Did you notice the first two things he mentioned in his question:
* He flies into huge loud rages in public over things that nobody else notices. For example, if in a group situation, nobody speaks to him for 5 minutes, he'll fly into a rage and start screaming and ravingIf it's not, dig a little deeper and find out what your problem is here. And maybe talk to a professional.
* He gets into physical fights with hospital staff, hookers, random strangers over some perceived slight. He's gotten arrested a few times, but nothing ever came of it
Don't listen to this, Anonymous. She is muddying the waters here. You don't have Deep Issues that require years of therapy. You are not the problem. Your "friend" has the problem. So cut ties with him and fill your life with people who will add to it, not subtract.
posted by jason's_planet at 4:11 PM on March 30, 2007
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posted by spicynuts at 1:19 PM on March 28, 2007