It's off my back but leers behind me
March 1, 2007 1:59 PM Subscribe
Does it ever stop? I am a "recovered" heroin addict. Or maybe now I can say I "was" a heroin addict.
I've been clean for 8 years, I have children, a career, a semblance of a responsible adult life that I am content with at 36, friends, the arts. I write grants for charities. I don't have to hide my past, it just doesn't come up anymore. But I dream of dope sometimes- vivid dreams in my sleep. If I am stressed out, my thoughts occasionally wander there...
I can't share this with anyone for fear of triggering alarm that I might relapse or am tempted to- and that's not what is going on. I guess I'm just permanently altered and will never be totally free of the threads...
I am interested in shared experience- otherwise I feel alone in this.
I can't share this with anyone for fear of triggering alarm that I might relapse or am tempted to- and that's not what is going on. I guess I'm just permanently altered and will never be totally free of the threads...
I am interested in shared experience- otherwise I feel alone in this.
Well, while they're admittedly nothing like heroin, I still smoke cigarettes occasionally in my dreams. And when my life is really stressful, I can't help but imagine how nice it would be to buy a fresh pack and smoke 'em.
My mother, who had smoked from her teens until her 30s, once told me in her 50s that she still craved cigarettes almost daily, and my grandmother, a recovered alcoholic of 50 years, still jokes that she might not mind going back to the booze now that her life is near its end.
Pretty normal, methinks.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 2:13 PM on March 1, 2007
My mother, who had smoked from her teens until her 30s, once told me in her 50s that she still craved cigarettes almost daily, and my grandmother, a recovered alcoholic of 50 years, still jokes that she might not mind going back to the booze now that her life is near its end.
Pretty normal, methinks.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 2:13 PM on March 1, 2007
I don't have any experience with heroin - but I still dream of smoking. Vivid like I wake up and feel actually guilty vivid dreams of smoking. When I'm stressed out - I have to consciously walk past the open doors of the corner store and think through all the reasons I don't smoke. I'm going to guess this is why they call it "in recovery" - rather than "recovered". I don't think it's ever over.
posted by Wolfie at 2:15 PM on March 1, 2007
posted by Wolfie at 2:15 PM on March 1, 2007
Somewhere I heard the straight dope about the nation's drug problem: The reason that drugs sell is because they do what is promised. Every time. How many other products can make the same claim?
I don't think that you're ever really free just like how they say that smokers never really quit. It's that whole one day at a time deal. You could pay someone $300/hour to talk about drugs and addiction, but I think that would just make you jones even more (unless, of course, you like that whole skin-crawling, dry mouth addiction desire).
Just try to remember that everyday it is your choice. The price you pay for all those awesome highs and soul-shattering lows is that you (unlike all the straights) have to make that choice everyday.
posted by melangell at 2:18 PM on March 1, 2007
I don't think that you're ever really free just like how they say that smokers never really quit. It's that whole one day at a time deal. You could pay someone $300/hour to talk about drugs and addiction, but I think that would just make you jones even more (unless, of course, you like that whole skin-crawling, dry mouth addiction desire).
Just try to remember that everyday it is your choice. The price you pay for all those awesome highs and soul-shattering lows is that you (unlike all the straights) have to make that choice everyday.
posted by melangell at 2:18 PM on March 1, 2007
I'm a recovering alcoholic, and still have drinking dreams sometimes. Not often, but maybe twice a year. In fact, I had one on Tuesday night, which was my eighth sober anniversary.
The dreams are incredibly vivid and I always wake up in a panic that I've really had a drink, they are that real. Sometimes I've even had the symptoms of a hangover for a while after waking.
I know other people have these too, I've heard lots of people in AA tell of dreams of drinking, drugging, gambling ...
I guess for me that's why I go to AA - so I know I'm not alone with this when I hear other people talk about the same things.
posted by essexjan at 2:24 PM on March 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
The dreams are incredibly vivid and I always wake up in a panic that I've really had a drink, they are that real. Sometimes I've even had the symptoms of a hangover for a while after waking.
I know other people have these too, I've heard lots of people in AA tell of dreams of drinking, drugging, gambling ...
I guess for me that's why I go to AA - so I know I'm not alone with this when I hear other people talk about the same things.
posted by essexjan at 2:24 PM on March 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
I really can't say I know anything about addiction on a personal level, but I'll at least share my opinion. Though it may not be worth much.
Being addicted to heroin is a huge thing. I don't think that'll ever be.. gone. Our past is always there. We don't have to live in the past, but we certainly never forget.
posted by VegaValmont at 2:25 PM on March 1, 2007
Being addicted to heroin is a huge thing. I don't think that'll ever be.. gone. Our past is always there. We don't have to live in the past, but we certainly never forget.
posted by VegaValmont at 2:25 PM on March 1, 2007
You are definitely not alone on this one. I think it's quite common. Everyone I know who had a substance abuse problem and who has sobered up (including myself) goes through phases where they think about it a lot and/or dream about it. There were times where you presumably didn't think about it much or dream about it much. Those times will return, if you stay sober. If you don't stay sober...well you know what will happen.
The reason that drugs sell is because they do what is promised. Every time.
That's not true at all. They stop working fast.
posted by milarepa at 2:26 PM on March 1, 2007
The reason that drugs sell is because they do what is promised. Every time.
That's not true at all. They stop working fast.
posted by milarepa at 2:26 PM on March 1, 2007
Haven't used tobacco for 13 years. Still, sometimes, have tobacco dreams.
FWIW, they aren't pleasant, though.
posted by 4ster at 2:42 PM on March 1, 2007
FWIW, they aren't pleasant, though.
posted by 4ster at 2:42 PM on March 1, 2007
No heroin for me, but I used to dip Copenhagen snuff. I only did it for about two years and stopped almost twenty years ago - still dream about it, on occasion. Like 4ster, the dreams are not pleasant.
posted by shino-boy at 2:52 PM on March 1, 2007
posted by shino-boy at 2:52 PM on March 1, 2007
My mom eventually stopped craving a cigarette every morning when she woke up. But it took her 20 years.
posted by tangerine at 3:06 PM on March 1, 2007
posted by tangerine at 3:06 PM on March 1, 2007
It will not go away. It's a part of you. Like amputees have phantom limbs, we'll always have phantom drinks, snorts, smokes. I've been sober for fourteen years and every now and then I still have a drinking/drugging dream. More often its cigarettes, as I just quit those three years ago. In time they will lessen, but I don't believe they'll ever vanish entirely.
Think of it as a poke in the arse to not forget where you came from.
posted by routergirl at 3:07 PM on March 1, 2007
Think of it as a poke in the arse to not forget where you came from.
posted by routergirl at 3:07 PM on March 1, 2007
I run a quit-smoking forum and some of the members have quit other substances: alcohol, heroine etc. Without a doubt, most of them have experienced recurring desires, either in their dreams or waking. That's why some of them hang around even after being quit for 8 years. For me, the really painful dreams come right around when I figure I've finally beaten the nicotine addiction to death. I guess it's my sub/un-conscious reminding me that I'll never be certain to not smoke again, remain vigilant, that sort of shit.
melangell makes sense about talking about it increasing the desire but if you think it would help there are bound to be dedicated forums online that would have people who have and are experiencing what you are. Maybe a couple of hours chewing the fat with them might help, rather than going to counselling.
posted by b33j at 3:10 PM on March 1, 2007
melangell makes sense about talking about it increasing the desire but if you think it would help there are bound to be dedicated forums online that would have people who have and are experiencing what you are. Maybe a couple of hours chewing the fat with them might help, rather than going to counselling.
posted by b33j at 3:10 PM on March 1, 2007
I'm going to tackle the dreams aspect.
I frequently have dreams that involve my childhood bedroom, or an old free-standing "studio" in the backyard. These rooms haven't existed in that form for at least 15 years, but they still show up in my dreams.
I think what you're experiencing is totally normal and means nothing.
posted by krisjohn at 3:51 PM on March 1, 2007
I frequently have dreams that involve my childhood bedroom, or an old free-standing "studio" in the backyard. These rooms haven't existed in that form for at least 15 years, but they still show up in my dreams.
I think what you're experiencing is totally normal and means nothing.
posted by krisjohn at 3:51 PM on March 1, 2007
it's not an online forum *or* counselling dichotomy here - for recovery from anything, having a toolkit or toolbox of things you can have at your disposal when you need it really is the key. For some people it's online forums, other people support groups (an excellent resource, even just to have a place to go to help others when you're well - kind of a good karmic exercise), for others, exercise, still other swear by therapy. I do think having 'a' therapist you can talk to about your concerns is a good strategy - it doesn't have to be someone you see constantly, but when you have periods of being stressed out, it's good to have an ear you can turn to, so to speak. And I've heard tha tdreaming about one's addiction is fairly common - it's symbolic of nothing other than a dream. You're definitely not alone in this - you never are. But having a support group to go to every once in a while is the best way to remind yourself you're not alone, because then you literally won't be. :)
posted by rmm at 3:57 PM on March 1, 2007
posted by rmm at 3:57 PM on March 1, 2007
Not an answer, but congratulations on making it thus far.
posted by crayolarabbit at 4:13 PM on March 1, 2007
posted by crayolarabbit at 4:13 PM on March 1, 2007
Overly simplified rundown that I'm sure you already know: Heroin is an opioid, and activates your opiate receptors by mimicking endorphins. It gives thus you a huge "endorphin rush", and a subsequent endorphin crash; your body craves more so it can correct the crash.
This creates hardwired behavior patterns that are nearly impossible, if not impossible, to erase for good. After years of this cycle, your body has learned that when its endorphin levels are low, the fastest way to correct that is through a fix of heroin. So of course you're still going to crave it sometimes (perhaps your dreams about it are your body's way of raising your endorphins through a virtual-reality-type mechanism, if that makes any sense. If it can't have the real thing, dream-simulation is the closest it can get.)
I'd venture a guess that you crave it especially during times when your endorphins are naturally low - stress, depression, during PMS if you're female. I have no idea what lasting effect heroin addiction has on one's neurotransmitter functions, but I'd guess that at the very least, they're extra sensitive and precariously balanced, if balanced at all.
All this said, I think the best way to lessen the cravings and the dreams is to keep your endorphins at a steady, moderately high state. DON'T do things that will give you an endorphin rush - as I said, you're probably super sensitive anyway, and this would just reinstate the rush/crash cycle of your addiction. So running twelve miles, getting a tattoo and then having an all-night orgy would probably be a very bad thing in the long run.
(As a side note, I experience this on a much lesser scale with sugar. I haven't eaten sugar in nearly six years, but I still dream about it when I'm depressed or PMSing. Sugar also activates the opiate receptors, but obviously on a much much much milder scale than heroin.)
posted by granted at 5:04 PM on March 1, 2007
This creates hardwired behavior patterns that are nearly impossible, if not impossible, to erase for good. After years of this cycle, your body has learned that when its endorphin levels are low, the fastest way to correct that is through a fix of heroin. So of course you're still going to crave it sometimes (perhaps your dreams about it are your body's way of raising your endorphins through a virtual-reality-type mechanism, if that makes any sense. If it can't have the real thing, dream-simulation is the closest it can get.)
I'd venture a guess that you crave it especially during times when your endorphins are naturally low - stress, depression, during PMS if you're female. I have no idea what lasting effect heroin addiction has on one's neurotransmitter functions, but I'd guess that at the very least, they're extra sensitive and precariously balanced, if balanced at all.
All this said, I think the best way to lessen the cravings and the dreams is to keep your endorphins at a steady, moderately high state. DON'T do things that will give you an endorphin rush - as I said, you're probably super sensitive anyway, and this would just reinstate the rush/crash cycle of your addiction. So running twelve miles, getting a tattoo and then having an all-night orgy would probably be a very bad thing in the long run.
(As a side note, I experience this on a much lesser scale with sugar. I haven't eaten sugar in nearly six years, but I still dream about it when I'm depressed or PMSing. Sugar also activates the opiate receptors, but obviously on a much much much milder scale than heroin.)
posted by granted at 5:04 PM on March 1, 2007
The dreams are incredibly vivid and I always wake up in a panic that I've really had a drink, they are that real. Sometimes I've even had the symptoms of a hangover for a while after waking.
That's so fascinating. It really is like a simulation of the real thing. The human brain is an amazing and terrifying entity.
posted by granted at 5:10 PM on March 1, 2007
That's so fascinating. It really is like a simulation of the real thing. The human brain is an amazing and terrifying entity.
posted by granted at 5:10 PM on March 1, 2007
Good timing, I actually just had a lecture on this today. I'd highly recommend reading
Drugs of Abuse and Stress Trigger a Common Synaptic Adaptation in Dopamine Neurons.
Neuron, Volume 37, Issue 4, Pages 577-582
D. Saal, Y. Dong, A. Bonci, R. Malenka
Depending on where you are, this link may work.
Abstract:
Drug seeking and drug self-administration in both animals and humans can be triggered by drugs of abuse themselves or by stressful events. Here, we demonstrate that in vivo administration of drugs of abuse with different molecular mechanisms of action as well as acute stress both increase strength at excitatory synapses on midbrain dopamine neurons. Psychoactive drugs with minimal abuse potential do not cause this change. The synaptic effects of stress, but not of cocaine, are blocked by the glucocorticoid receptor antagonist RU486. These results suggest that plasticity at excitatory synapses on dopamine neurons may be a key neural adaptation contributing to addiction and its interactions with stress and thus may be an attractive therapeutic target for reducing the risk of addiction.
This is also an interesting (and maybe more appropriate) article: "Anxiety and Stress Found to Promote Cocaine Use in Rats"
posted by devilsbrigade at 5:49 PM on March 1, 2007
Drugs of Abuse and Stress Trigger a Common Synaptic Adaptation in Dopamine Neurons.
Neuron, Volume 37, Issue 4, Pages 577-582
D. Saal, Y. Dong, A. Bonci, R. Malenka
Depending on where you are, this link may work.
Abstract:
Drug seeking and drug self-administration in both animals and humans can be triggered by drugs of abuse themselves or by stressful events. Here, we demonstrate that in vivo administration of drugs of abuse with different molecular mechanisms of action as well as acute stress both increase strength at excitatory synapses on midbrain dopamine neurons. Psychoactive drugs with minimal abuse potential do not cause this change. The synaptic effects of stress, but not of cocaine, are blocked by the glucocorticoid receptor antagonist RU486. These results suggest that plasticity at excitatory synapses on dopamine neurons may be a key neural adaptation contributing to addiction and its interactions with stress and thus may be an attractive therapeutic target for reducing the risk of addiction.
This is also an interesting (and maybe more appropriate) article: "Anxiety and Stress Found to Promote Cocaine Use in Rats"
posted by devilsbrigade at 5:49 PM on March 1, 2007
Something I forgot to mention.. I don't remember if its that first study or another one, but a pretty significant portion of the synaptic adaptation described occured within a day after the very first injection of cocaine, and lasted until the rats' death (which, admittedly, was usually sped up, but there was little to no denigration of the adaptation).
posted by devilsbrigade at 5:51 PM on March 1, 2007
posted by devilsbrigade at 5:51 PM on March 1, 2007
I work in child protection and will tell you that I am much MORE worried by someone in recovery who says they never think of/crave their drug of choice. So yeah, while people who are in your life who are not immersed in the recovery and addiction world might be worried by these dreams, I think people who know the field will see it as normal. So if you need to talk to someone, an AA person or a drug treatment person or a friend in recovery would be your best bet, IMHO.
Heroin is so hard to quit. I am very impressed by your strength.
posted by purenitrous at 6:32 PM on March 1, 2007
Heroin is so hard to quit. I am very impressed by your strength.
posted by purenitrous at 6:32 PM on March 1, 2007
I never had a taste for heroin... maybe because of the way I saw it ravage the lives of the artists I knew and saw it touch. I tried it a few times and it was negative every time... same goes for codeine.
I have had some rather elegant experiences with opium. But, being well aware of its addictive potential, it is and always will be strictly a finesse drug for me. The thing is, as near as I can tell, a good opium high resides somewhere, in its own strange place, between dreams and wakefulness.
posted by Huplescat at 6:51 PM on March 1, 2007
I have had some rather elegant experiences with opium. But, being well aware of its addictive potential, it is and always will be strictly a finesse drug for me. The thing is, as near as I can tell, a good opium high resides somewhere, in its own strange place, between dreams and wakefulness.
posted by Huplescat at 6:51 PM on March 1, 2007
I have no experience with heroin, but I quit smoking a couple of years ago and I still dream about smoking sometimes, and still kinda yearn for a stick. My dad quit 12 years ago, and he said that he feels the same way.
Stay strong, it's freaking awesome that you've done so well with yourself without that crap.
posted by tjbarrett at 7:39 PM on March 1, 2007
Stay strong, it's freaking awesome that you've done so well with yourself without that crap.
posted by tjbarrett at 7:39 PM on March 1, 2007
I have heard from friends who were users that they would occasionally dream about it, but for some weird reason, none of them could ever reach a point in their dream where they actually get to stick the needle into their arm. They would perhaps score in their dreams, get everything ready, but for some reason something would always interrupt & prevent them from doing the deed. This I find curious, and wonder if you experience anything similar? (Um, depending on your delivery method of choice, of course. This may not apply to you)
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:59 PM on March 1, 2007
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:59 PM on March 1, 2007
I had one last night. But now they are not about me using but someone tempting me to use. And I actually run from the shit. Woke up in a panic, but no desire to use, just creepy and sweaty and afraid. But I guess me refusing is a good thing.
What works for me - try to be 100% honest. Have a quiet time every morning. Remind myself that I would rather put a gun to my head than use again.
read this
posted by vronsky at 9:03 PM on March 1, 2007
What works for me - try to be 100% honest. Have a quiet time every morning. Remind myself that I would rather put a gun to my head than use again.
read this
posted by vronsky at 9:03 PM on March 1, 2007
mistsandrain,
according to the immune system theory of addiction, the cells in your body which produced naturally occuring opiates were killed off by your immune system once you began to consume heroin, as they were no longer needed. Now that you have stopped taking artificial opium, your body is reacting since you no longer have the capability to produce your own. This is why it is very rare for an ex-heroin addict to remain clean for the rest if his/her life.
posted by Clementines4ever at 8:40 PM on March 2, 2007
according to the immune system theory of addiction, the cells in your body which produced naturally occuring opiates were killed off by your immune system once you began to consume heroin, as they were no longer needed. Now that you have stopped taking artificial opium, your body is reacting since you no longer have the capability to produce your own. This is why it is very rare for an ex-heroin addict to remain clean for the rest if his/her life.
posted by Clementines4ever at 8:40 PM on March 2, 2007
In my teens (I'm 34 now), I experimented with a lot of stuff, but I had a real thing for barbiturates, codeine and 'ludes. I spent time in rehab, but the thing that was the toughest for me was quitting smoking over 3 years ago. It made quitting my happy pills seem like a cake walk. Go figure that is was legal nicotine that owned the most of me.
I have no intention of smoking again and usually can't stand even the smell of it, but every now and again, a wisp of smoke will pass my nose the right way and it will smell like the best thing in the world. I think of a dirty ashtray filled with stale butts until the desire goes away. I also get the smoking dreams every once in a blue moon & they totally throw me for a loop. I can taste it when I wake up and there were a few times where I thought I had actually smoked for a few minutes after I woke up... until "Real Life" kicks back in. I am lucky that I can talk about it to anyone close to me because they consider it inconsequential when compared to my "shameful" youth.
I totally get you about not having anyone to talk to about it though, because it seems that any time I broach my 14th -17th year as anything other than a miserable time in my life, everyone still acts like I am going to go back to popping pills & stealing meds & such (hello, clean for 17 years). That's why I think it is really important to have recovering friends who will understand the occasional need to war story or talk about an unfortunate, but very important time in your life. I have kept in touch with my rehab buddy all though the years and she gets a part of me that nobody else does and even gets my nicotine issues (she still smokes & has no intention of quitting) which for me is more of a fight. The two of us are as different as night & day in almost every way, but our time spent as addicts & in recovery transcends all that. We lean on each other when we need to. Even if you're not down with NA or AA/12 steps, it's good to have someone to talk about these thing with who won't freak out & immediately assume you're in a weak place and recognize when if really are.
So I guess, no, the dreams may never go away... they might go into hiding for a while, but there is always a little something that hangs on.
posted by Empyrean_72 at 11:05 PM on March 2, 2007
I have no intention of smoking again and usually can't stand even the smell of it, but every now and again, a wisp of smoke will pass my nose the right way and it will smell like the best thing in the world. I think of a dirty ashtray filled with stale butts until the desire goes away. I also get the smoking dreams every once in a blue moon & they totally throw me for a loop. I can taste it when I wake up and there were a few times where I thought I had actually smoked for a few minutes after I woke up... until "Real Life" kicks back in. I am lucky that I can talk about it to anyone close to me because they consider it inconsequential when compared to my "shameful" youth.
I totally get you about not having anyone to talk to about it though, because it seems that any time I broach my 14th -17th year as anything other than a miserable time in my life, everyone still acts like I am going to go back to popping pills & stealing meds & such (hello, clean for 17 years). That's why I think it is really important to have recovering friends who will understand the occasional need to war story or talk about an unfortunate, but very important time in your life. I have kept in touch with my rehab buddy all though the years and she gets a part of me that nobody else does and even gets my nicotine issues (she still smokes & has no intention of quitting) which for me is more of a fight. The two of us are as different as night & day in almost every way, but our time spent as addicts & in recovery transcends all that. We lean on each other when we need to. Even if you're not down with NA or AA/12 steps, it's good to have someone to talk about these thing with who won't freak out & immediately assume you're in a weak place and recognize when if really are.
So I guess, no, the dreams may never go away... they might go into hiding for a while, but there is always a little something that hangs on.
posted by Empyrean_72 at 11:05 PM on March 2, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by GuyZero at 2:06 PM on March 1, 2007