Art Relationship Morality Filter
February 6, 2007 11:21 PM Subscribe
Art Relationship Morality Filter – Have recently discovered my newly wed wife has lied to me about the contents of a painting that takes pride of place in our small flat.
My wife is an artist and the small flat we share has her work up on the walls. There is a painting that takes pride of place and due to its size our attentions cannot help but be drawn to it everyday. I once asked who the person in it was to which she replied ‘oh it was just a quick sketch done during art class of the person next to me’ – I may not have an artists eye but clearly a lot of time was spent painting it but I decided not to labor the point.
I came across some photo albums whilst clearing out some storage space and she has shown me lots of albums so flicked through some to while away some time. I came across a picture of the spitting image to the person in the painting and it is now clear that this was a former partner. We are both sensitive and prone to depression and I am conscious of opening a Pandora’s box if I confront her about it. Is it wrong of me to feel incredibly upset that I) she lied about it ii) that she feels the need to have it on the wall. I am not expecting her to erase the past but am confused as to how I am meant to deal with her past partners. It is her artwork and I feel that if it were merely a photo I could be outraged but the fact she painted it changes things somewhat. Every morning I wake and see it and feel queasy but do I have any right to confront her and demand it is put away? Won’t this just make her resent me? Should I bite my tongue and deal with my own reaction? Thanks.
My wife is an artist and the small flat we share has her work up on the walls. There is a painting that takes pride of place and due to its size our attentions cannot help but be drawn to it everyday. I once asked who the person in it was to which she replied ‘oh it was just a quick sketch done during art class of the person next to me’ – I may not have an artists eye but clearly a lot of time was spent painting it but I decided not to labor the point.
I came across some photo albums whilst clearing out some storage space and she has shown me lots of albums so flicked through some to while away some time. I came across a picture of the spitting image to the person in the painting and it is now clear that this was a former partner. We are both sensitive and prone to depression and I am conscious of opening a Pandora’s box if I confront her about it. Is it wrong of me to feel incredibly upset that I) she lied about it ii) that she feels the need to have it on the wall. I am not expecting her to erase the past but am confused as to how I am meant to deal with her past partners. It is her artwork and I feel that if it were merely a photo I could be outraged but the fact she painted it changes things somewhat. Every morning I wake and see it and feel queasy but do I have any right to confront her and demand it is put away? Won’t this just make her resent me? Should I bite my tongue and deal with my own reaction? Thanks.
She married you. She painted the other guy.
Were I you, I'd take to patting his frame on my way past the painting each day, like a football player touching motivational icons in the locker room tunnel leading to the field. And I'd grin a little grin to myself every time I did it.
And I wouldn't say a word, or need to say a word, ever.
Besides, trust me, in a few years, she probably won't be able to stand to look at anything she ever painted, and it'll all be out in the garage, or up in the attic, or, better yet, painted over, again.
posted by paulsc at 11:37 PM on February 6, 2007 [7 favorites]
Were I you, I'd take to patting his frame on my way past the painting each day, like a football player touching motivational icons in the locker room tunnel leading to the field. And I'd grin a little grin to myself every time I did it.
And I wouldn't say a word, or need to say a word, ever.
Besides, trust me, in a few years, she probably won't be able to stand to look at anything she ever painted, and it'll all be out in the garage, or up in the attic, or, better yet, painted over, again.
posted by paulsc at 11:37 PM on February 6, 2007 [7 favorites]
When you get married you have to accept the fact that your spouse has had previous partners. If you still think about or have a fondness for previous partners than it's reasonable to think your wife does too. This doesn't mean she loves them, or doesn't love you, it just means that her life existed previous to and independent of yours. I'm afraid that it's not reasonable to expect her to burn or demolish every memento of her past (which you acknowledge), and it's something you just need to get over. I, for one, have never been capable of "being friends" with exs, but my husband has had no problem doing that. I even get jealous sometimes when his parents talk about girlfriends he had as a teenager, and that was 15 years ago. I reassure myself by thinking, hey, I'm the one he chose to marry.
That said, it's also highly likely that the painting is sentimental due to technical aspects, not emotional ones. Obviously, you should address this with her, and if you're having trouble talking about this you'll have a ot more trouble with other issues.
The fact is, she lied to you to either minimize your feelings about this person or to minimize her own, not to be malicious. Would it have been different if she said the subject was simply a "friend" and left it at that? She still would have been lying.
posted by Brittanie at 11:40 PM on February 6, 2007
That said, it's also highly likely that the painting is sentimental due to technical aspects, not emotional ones. Obviously, you should address this with her, and if you're having trouble talking about this you'll have a ot more trouble with other issues.
The fact is, she lied to you to either minimize your feelings about this person or to minimize her own, not to be malicious. Would it have been different if she said the subject was simply a "friend" and left it at that? She still would have been lying.
posted by Brittanie at 11:40 PM on February 6, 2007
I live with and love a talented artist and think that you are making a mountain out of a molehill. The painting is something that she created to work through some emotions and those emotions are embarrassing to own up to now because she has moved past them. She doesn't want to talk about them, not because there is some conspiracy against you, but because she is a different person now from when she painted the piece. Her working through these feelings is separate from any objective judgment of the artistic execution of the paintings, so don't get hung up on the past.
If you really want a reaction out of her, stare at it and insist that it looks just like her father. Keep insisting, and laughing of course, until she takes it down.
posted by peeedro at 11:44 PM on February 6, 2007 [3 favorites]
If you really want a reaction out of her, stare at it and insist that it looks just like her father. Keep insisting, and laughing of course, until she takes it down.
posted by peeedro at 11:44 PM on February 6, 2007 [3 favorites]
I think you're taking it too personally. It's a painting--art tends to take on a life of its own after the fact. If I married Da Vinci, I wouldn't demand he put the Mona Lisa in storage. She's probably keeping it up because she likes its aesthetic appeal or display of her skills, and lied to you because she knew it would make you worry and consider asking her to get rid of it (she wasn't wrong). She married you, not him, for a reason, and holding on to a relic of a relationship doesn't necessarily mean clinging to the relationship itself. I wouldn't throw out old jewelry or sweaters because an ex gave them to me.
I think you're right to point out the photo and ask her about it, but it's nothing worth getting worked up about. Maybe ask her to paint a portrait of you for the walls?
posted by almostmanda at 11:44 PM on February 6, 2007
I think you're right to point out the photo and ask her about it, but it's nothing worth getting worked up about. Maybe ask her to paint a portrait of you for the walls?
posted by almostmanda at 11:44 PM on February 6, 2007
Sure you're upset. Anybody would be.
Your wife lying would seem to imply that (a) this painting (this guy) is a bigger deal to her than she wants to admit, or (b) she thinks this painting (this guy) would be a big deal to you, and she'd rather avoid the drama. Neither one of those alternatives are... flattering, to you as a couple.
But you know what it probably is? She just choked. She was taken aback by the question for whatever reason that day, just blurted a lie, and two minutes later was thinking -- what the hell did I say that for? And then couldn't see how to correct it without making it a bigger deal.
Ask her. She's your wife. It's not like she doesn't know you are upset about something -- don't make her guess what it is. Just tell her you saw a picture that has to be the same guy, is it? Why didn't she say so when you asked before -- did she think you'd be jealous? Or what? See what she says.
posted by Methylviolet at 11:56 PM on February 6, 2007 [2 favorites]
Your wife lying would seem to imply that (a) this painting (this guy) is a bigger deal to her than she wants to admit, or (b) she thinks this painting (this guy) would be a big deal to you, and she'd rather avoid the drama. Neither one of those alternatives are... flattering, to you as a couple.
But you know what it probably is? She just choked. She was taken aback by the question for whatever reason that day, just blurted a lie, and two minutes later was thinking -- what the hell did I say that for? And then couldn't see how to correct it without making it a bigger deal.
Ask her. She's your wife. It's not like she doesn't know you are upset about something -- don't make her guess what it is. Just tell her you saw a picture that has to be the same guy, is it? Why didn't she say so when you asked before -- did she think you'd be jealous? Or what? See what she says.
posted by Methylviolet at 11:56 PM on February 6, 2007 [2 favorites]
I'm an artist and tend to agree with peeedro & almostmanda, but also understand your POV.
You could certainly tell her you love her painting style but this particular piece isn't her best/doesn't do it for you. Make it a fun project to have her paint something new for the space. Maybe ask her to paint you two in a cool way (hint you'd like it for V-Day, Bday, first wedding anniversary, whatever). Or whatever she wants to paint. Then, the old bf gets kicked into the storage space.
Wait. If you prefer the poetic justice method...just have somebody come over and buy the painting (your money...how much is it worth to you to get rid of it?). Everybody wins! sort of.
posted by artdrectr at 11:59 PM on February 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
You could certainly tell her you love her painting style but this particular piece isn't her best/doesn't do it for you. Make it a fun project to have her paint something new for the space. Maybe ask her to paint you two in a cool way (hint you'd like it for V-Day, Bday, first wedding anniversary, whatever). Or whatever she wants to paint. Then, the old bf gets kicked into the storage space.
Wait. If you prefer the poetic justice method...just have somebody come over and buy the painting (your money...how much is it worth to you to get rid of it?). Everybody wins! sort of.
posted by artdrectr at 11:59 PM on February 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
Seconding Methylviolet. I like the theory that she just choked. For some reason, maybe just artistic merit, she likes the piece, and when you asked her about it, she didn't know how to say who it was without turning it into a big deal. Since you're both sensitive and prone to depression, she punted. Easier just to brush it off than risk some big emotional spiral.
If I were you, I'd want to talk about it, but I would raise the conversation in the best possible light. Maybe something like, "I noticed that there's a really strong resemblance between that painting and these pictures of your old boyfriend. When I asked who it was before, you were going out of your way to be sensitive to my feelings, weren't you?" Instead of starting off being hurt or confrontational, start off framing in a way that lets everyone be a good guy. Maybe that seems like you're gaming things, but there are ways of having this discussion that guarantee a teary-eyed fight and there are ways of having it that stack the deck in favor of her thinking that you are incredibly understanding and non-jealous. If it were me, I'd go for the relationship victory from the start.
(And if she asks if it bothers you, be ready for your response. "To be honest, I'd prefer it if it weren't on display" is probably better than something like, "Yes, because it makes me think you are still in love with him." Or better yet, if you really feel this way, "No, doesn't really bother me, I just want us to set a pattern of being really open and accepting with each other.")
posted by Pater Aletheias at 12:12 AM on February 7, 2007
If I were you, I'd want to talk about it, but I would raise the conversation in the best possible light. Maybe something like, "I noticed that there's a really strong resemblance between that painting and these pictures of your old boyfriend. When I asked who it was before, you were going out of your way to be sensitive to my feelings, weren't you?" Instead of starting off being hurt or confrontational, start off framing in a way that lets everyone be a good guy. Maybe that seems like you're gaming things, but there are ways of having this discussion that guarantee a teary-eyed fight and there are ways of having it that stack the deck in favor of her thinking that you are incredibly understanding and non-jealous. If it were me, I'd go for the relationship victory from the start.
(And if she asks if it bothers you, be ready for your response. "To be honest, I'd prefer it if it weren't on display" is probably better than something like, "Yes, because it makes me think you are still in love with him." Or better yet, if you really feel this way, "No, doesn't really bother me, I just want us to set a pattern of being really open and accepting with each other.")
posted by Pater Aletheias at 12:12 AM on February 7, 2007
You're probably going to need to have a talk about it because (from the sound of your question) you are probably not going to be able to get over it, which is what it would be easiest and best for you to do. Probable interpretation: your wife has attachments to the painting for reasons having to do with aesthetics and her history as an artist and having nothing to do with any attachment to what's his name. She most likely lied (and saw it as a harmless white lie) because she knew you would have this disproportionate reaction.
Keep this (likely) interpretation in mind if you must get into this with your wife. Don't get into the issue of her lying, don't imply she is carrying some torch for this person, and acknowledge that the fact that its presence upsets you is your hangup. As one of the persons sharing your roof you have a right not to look at something every day that upsets you. Demanding that she "put it away" is unlikely to go down well. Try asking nicely.
posted by nanojath at 12:26 AM on February 7, 2007
Keep this (likely) interpretation in mind if you must get into this with your wife. Don't get into the issue of her lying, don't imply she is carrying some torch for this person, and acknowledge that the fact that its presence upsets you is your hangup. As one of the persons sharing your roof you have a right not to look at something every day that upsets you. Demanding that she "put it away" is unlikely to go down well. Try asking nicely.
posted by nanojath at 12:26 AM on February 7, 2007
She "lied" to you because she feared you might act like a jealous fool if you knew the truth.
Don't prove her right.
posted by sageleaf at 12:26 AM on February 7, 2007 [2 favorites]
Don't prove her right.
posted by sageleaf at 12:26 AM on February 7, 2007 [2 favorites]
Is it possible that the former partner started out as someone who sat next to her in an art class (and whom she quickly sketched)? If that is possible, then it is also possible that her lingering feelings for her ex are no more intense than one's feelings for a person who once sat next to her in an art class.
If the artwork is simply something she is attached to in a technical sense, and she has no feelings of attachment to her ex, she might have feared telling you the art-class-neighbor was, at some point in her life, a romantic interest would cause you to read all sorts of feelings into the painting.
posted by necessitas at 12:50 AM on February 7, 2007
If the artwork is simply something she is attached to in a technical sense, and she has no feelings of attachment to her ex, she might have feared telling you the art-class-neighbor was, at some point in her life, a romantic interest would cause you to read all sorts of feelings into the painting.
posted by necessitas at 12:50 AM on February 7, 2007
Is there ANYTHING in YOUR past that you have not been 100% honest about and also volunteered? If so, congratulations. I say let it rest. If it is a nice work of art and well executed, she has reason to be proud of THAT. Were it a photograph she want to keep and in a place of honor, different story. You might even stroke her ego and say that you like the technical work and that you would love it if she painted one of you. If it turned out as well, perhaps yours could replace the other?
posted by toucano at 12:58 AM on February 7, 2007
posted by toucano at 12:58 AM on February 7, 2007
oh whatever. regardless of his wife's attachment to the painting, no one should have to to endure the massive leering visage of the guy who used to plow his wife - hanging above the fireplace.
definitely use diplomacy when you go about it, but asking her to move it someplace where you don't have to look at it is perfectly reasonable.
a good approach might include suggesting another of her paintings which you really like to take its place.
posted by Tryptophan-5ht at 2:05 AM on February 7, 2007
definitely use diplomacy when you go about it, but asking her to move it someplace where you don't have to look at it is perfectly reasonable.
a good approach might include suggesting another of her paintings which you really like to take its place.
posted by Tryptophan-5ht at 2:05 AM on February 7, 2007
Stick up a big photo of a smiling woman in a bikini. When she asks about it, say "Oh, it's just a snap I took with my old camera". ;)
posted by Phanx at 2:09 AM on February 7, 2007
posted by Phanx at 2:09 AM on February 7, 2007
Given that you are both prone to certain emotional states, if you want to resolve this like adults, I'd highly advise ignoring answers in this thread that advocate retaliation.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:51 AM on February 7, 2007
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:51 AM on February 7, 2007
Accidentaly put your elbow through it. Et voila.
posted by fire&wings at 3:35 AM on February 7, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by fire&wings at 3:35 AM on February 7, 2007 [2 favorites]
Given that one of the things the poster is feeling hurt by is his wife's apparent lie to him, I think it odd that many of the suggestions above are for him to do the same to her. (I say "apparent" because, since he hasn't talked to her about it, the person in the painting might not be the person in the photo; it really could be the guy next to her in art class who she painted in a way that made him look like the ex, we don't know.) So no, I don't think he should make up stories, especially hurtful ones ("You know honey, that painting that we've been hanging in the living room and that's the first thing visitors see when they come in? Not your best work. But I would love it if you slapped together a painting of me to hang there instead, you know.")
I think that the poster should talk about it with his wife, but in a non-accusatory, non-attacking sort of way. But then he will have a decision to make. Assuming that indeed she did lie to spare his feelings, and that the painting is indeed of the ex, is he going to be ok with it still in the living room, or does the painting need to move? (And would it really be better if the painting was in her studio, keeping her company all day?)
But it's not easy to have that conversation, and I'm reading the "sensitive and prone to depression," and all the references to "confront" and "resent" in the post, as code for "we haven't really learned how to communicate with each other very well yet." Whether you involve a marriage counselor, read some books about it, or just plain figure it out on your own, good communication is pretty foundational to a relationship. There will always be disagreements and problems and conflict --- what you need is a solid way to talk about them and move forward as a couple.
posted by Forktine at 3:42 AM on February 7, 2007
I think that the poster should talk about it with his wife, but in a non-accusatory, non-attacking sort of way. But then he will have a decision to make. Assuming that indeed she did lie to spare his feelings, and that the painting is indeed of the ex, is he going to be ok with it still in the living room, or does the painting need to move? (And would it really be better if the painting was in her studio, keeping her company all day?)
But it's not easy to have that conversation, and I'm reading the "sensitive and prone to depression," and all the references to "confront" and "resent" in the post, as code for "we haven't really learned how to communicate with each other very well yet." Whether you involve a marriage counselor, read some books about it, or just plain figure it out on your own, good communication is pretty foundational to a relationship. There will always be disagreements and problems and conflict --- what you need is a solid way to talk about them and move forward as a couple.
posted by Forktine at 3:42 AM on February 7, 2007
Pater Aletheias is right on. Maybe frame your discussion (heh) in a "I know I'm probably being stupid, but I noticed the other day that that painting looks alot like that Steve guy you used to date. Intellectually, I realize I've got nothing to worry about, but my lizard hindbrain is still slightly jealous. Maybe you could do a portrait of me to replace it with?" way.
posted by Rock Steady at 4:16 AM on February 7, 2007
posted by Rock Steady at 4:16 AM on February 7, 2007
Be gentle. He may be dead. I've only known one person who kept the photo of an ex displayed after moving on to a new partner, and that was the case. It doesn't mean it's certain, of course, but if that were the case it would change the dynamic somewhat.
posted by textilephile at 4:36 AM on February 7, 2007
posted by textilephile at 4:36 AM on February 7, 2007
I have any right to confront her and demand it is put away?
No, you can't demand it be put away. Perhaps moved to another spot.
Won’t this just make her resent me?
Possibly.
Should I bite my tongue and deal with my own reaction?
No. Ask her about, tell her it bothers you, get it out in the open.
Ask her about the guy in calm voice. Let her talk, just listen. Don't judge on her it.
Take this for what it is: A chance to discover more about the person that is your wife.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:37 AM on February 7, 2007
No, you can't demand it be put away. Perhaps moved to another spot.
Won’t this just make her resent me?
Possibly.
Should I bite my tongue and deal with my own reaction?
No. Ask her about, tell her it bothers you, get it out in the open.
Ask her about the guy in calm voice. Let her talk, just listen. Don't judge on her it.
Take this for what it is: A chance to discover more about the person that is your wife.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:37 AM on February 7, 2007
She needs to be more truthful with you. How long did you know/live with each other before you got married. If it was 10 years, I wouldn't give it a second thought, as she likely fibbed because she knew you had a jealous streak. If you just met her six months ago, you need to deal with this issue. From the context of your question, I'd bet it is the latter and you do need to talk with her. However, give her an opportunity to answer the question truthfully. Act like you forgot about asking her and one day look right into her eyes and ask her nonchalantly who the person is. If she's truthful, you can drop it--don't ask anything about the former partner at all. If she isn't truthful, then bring out the info about the person in the pictures, letting her know that you need her to be upfront when you ask her direct questions.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:24 AM on February 7, 2007
posted by Ironmouth at 5:24 AM on February 7, 2007
My take on this: your wife is a person who can be friends with her exes. This really happens and is ok. (My beloved and I both fall into this category and have met one another's exes. We each have exes we are friends with today and who we both like as a couple.)
You are a person who is not friends with his exes. You don't understand why someone would want to keep in touch with a terminated sexual relationship this way and you can't help feeling there must still be a sexual bond. Therefore you are jealous. Lots of people I know fit in this category. (While it appears less "evolved" than the first, I'm not sure this is the case at all.)
Because your wife knows that you are jealous, she avoided triggering your jealousy. There's nothing sneaky going on - for a friends-with-exes person, exes are family - it's just tedious having to deal with a spouse's jealousy about a family member who isn't even physically around.
Anyway, that's how I imagine what happened. In this scenario, neither of you are bad people, there's no "confrontation" necessary. When you're cuddling and free-associating one day (very soon), mention that the portrait is her ex. Listen to her explanation. Then just tell her that it makes you uncomfortable and you'd like her to put it somewhere else.
Your wife should respect your perfectly understandable feelings even if she doesn't relate to them, and accomodate your request because she cares about your feelings. Not because she did anything bad, not because you "demanded" she do it, but because she loves you and this is one of your idiosyncrasies.
Likewise, you should compromise and try to work out a solution that you can live with that accommodates your wife's attachment to her artwork and her family members (including exes who she no longer sees). Not because you are wrong for being jealous, but because you care about your wife and her values are important to you.
Even if your wife denies that the portrait is of her ex, you can still ask her to move it because it makes you uncomfortable. Nobody needs to "prove" anything.
Learning to accomodate one another like this is part of learning to be married. It's normal to freak out at the beginning, but if you are having too much trouble with the learning process you might need to talk to someone. Married people who have the kind of relationship you admire are good people to talk to. A therapist is another - though risky - possiblility. Some therapists are wise and helpful, some are destructive sadists and some are just stupid.
posted by kika at 5:50 AM on February 7, 2007
You are a person who is not friends with his exes. You don't understand why someone would want to keep in touch with a terminated sexual relationship this way and you can't help feeling there must still be a sexual bond. Therefore you are jealous. Lots of people I know fit in this category. (While it appears less "evolved" than the first, I'm not sure this is the case at all.)
Because your wife knows that you are jealous, she avoided triggering your jealousy. There's nothing sneaky going on - for a friends-with-exes person, exes are family - it's just tedious having to deal with a spouse's jealousy about a family member who isn't even physically around.
Anyway, that's how I imagine what happened. In this scenario, neither of you are bad people, there's no "confrontation" necessary. When you're cuddling and free-associating one day (very soon), mention that the portrait is her ex. Listen to her explanation. Then just tell her that it makes you uncomfortable and you'd like her to put it somewhere else.
Your wife should respect your perfectly understandable feelings even if she doesn't relate to them, and accomodate your request because she cares about your feelings. Not because she did anything bad, not because you "demanded" she do it, but because she loves you and this is one of your idiosyncrasies.
Likewise, you should compromise and try to work out a solution that you can live with that accommodates your wife's attachment to her artwork and her family members (including exes who she no longer sees). Not because you are wrong for being jealous, but because you care about your wife and her values are important to you.
Even if your wife denies that the portrait is of her ex, you can still ask her to move it because it makes you uncomfortable. Nobody needs to "prove" anything.
Learning to accomodate one another like this is part of learning to be married. It's normal to freak out at the beginning, but if you are having too much trouble with the learning process you might need to talk to someone. Married people who have the kind of relationship you admire are good people to talk to. A therapist is another - though risky - possiblility. Some therapists are wise and helpful, some are destructive sadists and some are just stupid.
posted by kika at 5:50 AM on February 7, 2007
I can understand being weirded out, or even a hurt a bit, but I wouldn't make this into a big deal. You have every right (IMHO) to ask for the painting to come down. For me, it would depend. It depends on how the guy in the picture is depicted, and what she says when she talks to you about it. If she admits to still having feelings for this guy, I would be a little creeped out at having the torch carrying going on in my face. On the other hand, if she's just into the painting then maybe it wouldn't bother me. Most importantly, you have to feel like you can talk to your wife about these things. You can't tiptoe around issues worried that you will shatter her.
posted by xammerboy at 6:03 AM on February 7, 2007
posted by xammerboy at 6:03 AM on February 7, 2007
regardless of his wife's attachment to the painting, no one should have to to endure the massive leering visage of the guy who used to plow his wife - hanging above the fireplace.
definitely use diplomacy when you go about it, but asking her to move it someplace where you don't have to look at it is perfectly reasonable.
Bingo. There's no point getting all upset and accusatory (and certainly don't ask her if it's her ex—that just gives her a chance to lie again and dig herself in deeper—or ask why she lied to you, since it's a perfectly understandable and human lie); just say "Honey, I've been trying to ignore the fact that that's your ex, but I can't help being bothered by it. Would you mind if we moved it somewhere where it's not so much in my face?" (Or words to that effect.) You don't want to sound either self-righteous or whiny, but you want to make it clear that you're not happy with it where it is. (Hopefully she won't argue about the ID, but if she says "What makes you think it's an ex?" just say "I saw him in one of your photo albums." Try not to get derailed into a discussion of whether you had the right to look at that particular album, or how you can be sure it's the same guy.)
For those of you taking the position that hey, it's art, she's married to you, not him, etc. etc.: fine, great, you wouldn't be bothered by it. The poster is (and I would be too), and he has to live with his own emotions, not yours.
posted by languagehat at 6:21 AM on February 7, 2007
definitely use diplomacy when you go about it, but asking her to move it someplace where you don't have to look at it is perfectly reasonable.
Bingo. There's no point getting all upset and accusatory (and certainly don't ask her if it's her ex—that just gives her a chance to lie again and dig herself in deeper—or ask why she lied to you, since it's a perfectly understandable and human lie); just say "Honey, I've been trying to ignore the fact that that's your ex, but I can't help being bothered by it. Would you mind if we moved it somewhere where it's not so much in my face?" (Or words to that effect.) You don't want to sound either self-righteous or whiny, but you want to make it clear that you're not happy with it where it is. (Hopefully she won't argue about the ID, but if she says "What makes you think it's an ex?" just say "I saw him in one of your photo albums." Try not to get derailed into a discussion of whether you had the right to look at that particular album, or how you can be sure it's the same guy.)
For those of you taking the position that hey, it's art, she's married to you, not him, etc. etc.: fine, great, you wouldn't be bothered by it. The poster is (and I would be too), and he has to live with his own emotions, not yours.
posted by languagehat at 6:21 AM on February 7, 2007
Lying is bad, generally. This one looks protective in nature.
I do art. Some of it about my former deceased wife. Current wife loves some pieces, hates others... tolerates all.
I mostly don't display the stuff she hates. I did it to work through the grief and it served its purpose when done, so I am ok storing it, as opposed to displaying it.
Sounds like your wife either likes her work, likes the subject, likes the reminder of where she came from.... Artist's relationships to their work are just as complex as their relationships to people, sometimes. Marrying one implies dealing with that reality.
Were I you, I'd learn to appreciate it. I know in my case, I love what my wife loves because she loves it. That imbues it with a special significance for me.
Don't fret... it probably means nothing negative for you. If you are the jealous type, perhaps it would be more effective to work on that issue...
posted by FauxScot at 6:23 AM on February 7, 2007
I do art. Some of it about my former deceased wife. Current wife loves some pieces, hates others... tolerates all.
I mostly don't display the stuff she hates. I did it to work through the grief and it served its purpose when done, so I am ok storing it, as opposed to displaying it.
Sounds like your wife either likes her work, likes the subject, likes the reminder of where she came from.... Artist's relationships to their work are just as complex as their relationships to people, sometimes. Marrying one implies dealing with that reality.
Were I you, I'd learn to appreciate it. I know in my case, I love what my wife loves because she loves it. That imbues it with a special significance for me.
Don't fret... it probably means nothing negative for you. If you are the jealous type, perhaps it would be more effective to work on that issue...
posted by FauxScot at 6:23 AM on February 7, 2007
Is it wrong of me to feel incredibly upset that I) she lied about it ii) that she feels the need to have it on the wall.
Your feelings are legitimate, but at the same time there are are reasonable explanations for both of these things which have been given above. You need to talk to her about your feelings, but you don't need to do it in a confrontational way. It's important that you give her the best opportunity to give you an explanation that you'll be satisfied with so you need to do your best not to make her feel defensive.
If you still can't feel comfortable with having the painting there after you've talked about it, I think you have a right to insist that it be taken down.
posted by teleskiving at 6:41 AM on February 7, 2007
Your feelings are legitimate, but at the same time there are are reasonable explanations for both of these things which have been given above. You need to talk to her about your feelings, but you don't need to do it in a confrontational way. It's important that you give her the best opportunity to give you an explanation that you'll be satisfied with so you need to do your best not to make her feel defensive.
If you still can't feel comfortable with having the painting there after you've talked about it, I think you have a right to insist that it be taken down.
posted by teleskiving at 6:41 AM on February 7, 2007
Is it wrong of me to feel incredibly upset that I) she lied about it ii) that she feels the need to have it on the wall.
No, I would not classify that as an inappropriate emotional response.
I am not expecting her to erase the past but am confused as to how I am meant to deal with her past partners.
It is important that you communicate your feelings about both issues; her original reply to your inquisition and your current emotional state in the context of your photographically correlated discovery. The first may seem devoid of context and would indeed be rather moot assuming you never found evidence to question her directives, but I would consider them somewhat separate issues as they seem to be compounding one another in your mind. I say this in reference to the excerpted statements - your reaction is not predetermined or guided by what is supposed to occur or be perceived, it simply exists and it should not be ignored or shelved. You have already begun to deal with the issue in your own way, it's not a matter of confusion or error on your behalf.
Every morning I wake and see it and feel queasy but do I have any right to confront her and demand it is put away? Won’t this just make her resent me?
In my opinion I would look at this issue by swapping out the insanely emotionally charged subject matter with something equally disturbing to you as an individual outside of the realm of historical partners of your significant other. What if you had a specific phobia or aversion to clowns, spiders, gore or abstract pastel compositions? Compromise is important, and if a rendering that occupies an enormous chunk of real estate in your flat makes you physically ill I would expect any reasonable individual to be able to discuss the matter and come to a sensible consensus about its content and placement in your living space; no matter their previous emotional attachment.
Damaging the painting, "accidentally" or not would be a rather poor solution to this issue. I'd presume it would cause more mental anguish and stress on her behalf more than anything - just as you always wondered about that painting, she would always wonder about the circumstances surrounding its demise. It would simply add another layer of deception to the situation and also give her a prime impetus to truly resent you in regards to her lost work.
posted by prostyle at 6:51 AM on February 7, 2007
No, I would not classify that as an inappropriate emotional response.
I am not expecting her to erase the past but am confused as to how I am meant to deal with her past partners.
It is important that you communicate your feelings about both issues; her original reply to your inquisition and your current emotional state in the context of your photographically correlated discovery. The first may seem devoid of context and would indeed be rather moot assuming you never found evidence to question her directives, but I would consider them somewhat separate issues as they seem to be compounding one another in your mind. I say this in reference to the excerpted statements - your reaction is not predetermined or guided by what is supposed to occur or be perceived, it simply exists and it should not be ignored or shelved. You have already begun to deal with the issue in your own way, it's not a matter of confusion or error on your behalf.
Every morning I wake and see it and feel queasy but do I have any right to confront her and demand it is put away? Won’t this just make her resent me?
In my opinion I would look at this issue by swapping out the insanely emotionally charged subject matter with something equally disturbing to you as an individual outside of the realm of historical partners of your significant other. What if you had a specific phobia or aversion to clowns, spiders, gore or abstract pastel compositions? Compromise is important, and if a rendering that occupies an enormous chunk of real estate in your flat makes you physically ill I would expect any reasonable individual to be able to discuss the matter and come to a sensible consensus about its content and placement in your living space; no matter their previous emotional attachment.
Damaging the painting, "accidentally" or not would be a rather poor solution to this issue. I'd presume it would cause more mental anguish and stress on her behalf more than anything - just as you always wondered about that painting, she would always wonder about the circumstances surrounding its demise. It would simply add another layer of deception to the situation and also give her a prime impetus to truly resent you in regards to her lost work.
posted by prostyle at 6:51 AM on February 7, 2007
I am obviously in the minority here, but I think this is an issue that requires some major attention.
a. Your wife lied to you. I don't understand why there are so many excuses about why she did, but the fact is that she did.
b. There is a painting of a former lover right in your living room. This is creepy and unacceptable, and the fact that it continues to stay there due to a lie just makes it worse.
Stand up for yourself.
posted by eas98 at 6:56 AM on February 7, 2007 [2 favorites]
a. Your wife lied to you. I don't understand why there are so many excuses about why she did, but the fact is that she did.
b. There is a painting of a former lover right in your living room. This is creepy and unacceptable, and the fact that it continues to stay there due to a lie just makes it worse.
Stand up for yourself.
posted by eas98 at 6:56 AM on February 7, 2007 [2 favorites]
I was living with and engaged to an artist. On a shirt she had done this sort of abstract, child-like drawing/painting of her former boyfriend with her in the background. I liked the piece and I actually wore the shirt quite a lot. She wore it too. This was during the tail end of that whole R.E.M., indie-music, jeans n' t-shirt era and the beginning of the whole Nirvana, jeans n' flannel shirt era, and neither of us had any problem walking around in something obviously homemade. In fact, it wasn't unusual for either of us to get questions about, and compliments, on it.
I never thought of it as her hanging on to a previous relationship. It was always about the quality of the work. She'd drawn/painted something that had an impact on her and the drawing/painting turned out well, so she put it on display. Besides, the shirt was really comfortable.
But then, she never hid from me the origin of the shirt. I knew all about it and her former boyfriend. Also, I knew that she now hated his guts. During the two years we were together she saw him only once and then she refused to even speak to him. Yet she didn't mind having that shirt around all the time. This did not then nor does it now seem strange to me.
When I write, it's often about people I've known who weren't terribly nice and experiences I've had which weren't very pleasant. Those pages and paragraphs are important to me. I remember, once, when the aforementioned relationship was on its last legs and things were about as miserable as they could get, some rather surreal stuff happened. The artist girlfriend was hanging out with these club kid wannabes and... oh, it's a long story, but I ended up almost strangling one of them. Anyway, I sat down and wrote up a barely fictionalized account of these events in the form of a short story. After an edit or two, but not before I moved out of the cat-shit polluted, month-behind-on-the-rent hovel I shared with the artist girlfriend, I sent a copy to a friend of mine who I thought would be interested. He wrote back to say that he'd enjoyed it and then quoted one particular paragraph that he'd found completely hysterical. This was probably the most stressful period in my life and when I wrote about it, my friend read it as a comedy. A very dark comedy, but also a very funny one. And getting that reaction completely and totally made my week. It felt damn good.
The point here is that there are big and important differences between the experiences you have and the work that you produce depicting these experiences. The fact that I keep that story around doesn't mean that I want to move back in with the artist girl and the fact that she kept that t-shirt around didn't mean she wanted to break up with me and go back to her ex-boyfriend. To the person who makes them, the purpose of a painting or a story is not to indicate relationship preferences. There are lots of other ways to do that. The work is just work; and if it's good, you're happy that it's there. You want to hang on to it and, yeah, to show it to other people.
Hopefully, that's all that's going on in your relationship. Maybe your girlfriend is just happy to have produced a painting that she feels is worth displaying. Maybe she worries that you won't understand - or that she won't be able to explain - this difference between the work and the experience. In fact, she may even be embarrassed about taking pride in something like that. If I wrote down the entire story of my relationship with the artist chick and had you read it, you'd say, "Jesus, Clay, what the fuck were you thinking? You obviously knew this was a stupid idea and yet you did it anyway and you've been paying for it ever since." And I wouldn't be able to disagree with the sentiment. But your reaction wouldn't make me regret having written it or even having shown it to you. Quite the opposite, actually.
The point is simply that we feel vulnerable when we reveal these things about ourselves and yet we do it anyway. We want you to pay attention to the work, but we don't want to have to then go back and justify the decisions or emotions you see in them. This becomes even more problematic if we appear nostalgic, if we give the impression that we wish we could relive those experiences. And often times we do give that impression.
Maybe your girlfriend did have some sort of relationship with the subject of this painting and it went badly and now she just doesn't want to have to explain to you the seeming contradiction of regretting the relationship and keeping the painting around. I don't know. But the painting is something that came out of her. The simple fact that she made it makes it important. Not exactly the same thing as, say, a child, but not entirely dissimilar either. Do your best to keep that in mind.
posted by Clay201 at 7:09 AM on February 7, 2007 [2 favorites]
I never thought of it as her hanging on to a previous relationship. It was always about the quality of the work. She'd drawn/painted something that had an impact on her and the drawing/painting turned out well, so she put it on display. Besides, the shirt was really comfortable.
But then, she never hid from me the origin of the shirt. I knew all about it and her former boyfriend. Also, I knew that she now hated his guts. During the two years we were together she saw him only once and then she refused to even speak to him. Yet she didn't mind having that shirt around all the time. This did not then nor does it now seem strange to me.
When I write, it's often about people I've known who weren't terribly nice and experiences I've had which weren't very pleasant. Those pages and paragraphs are important to me. I remember, once, when the aforementioned relationship was on its last legs and things were about as miserable as they could get, some rather surreal stuff happened. The artist girlfriend was hanging out with these club kid wannabes and... oh, it's a long story, but I ended up almost strangling one of them. Anyway, I sat down and wrote up a barely fictionalized account of these events in the form of a short story. After an edit or two, but not before I moved out of the cat-shit polluted, month-behind-on-the-rent hovel I shared with the artist girlfriend, I sent a copy to a friend of mine who I thought would be interested. He wrote back to say that he'd enjoyed it and then quoted one particular paragraph that he'd found completely hysterical. This was probably the most stressful period in my life and when I wrote about it, my friend read it as a comedy. A very dark comedy, but also a very funny one. And getting that reaction completely and totally made my week. It felt damn good.
The point here is that there are big and important differences between the experiences you have and the work that you produce depicting these experiences. The fact that I keep that story around doesn't mean that I want to move back in with the artist girl and the fact that she kept that t-shirt around didn't mean she wanted to break up with me and go back to her ex-boyfriend. To the person who makes them, the purpose of a painting or a story is not to indicate relationship preferences. There are lots of other ways to do that. The work is just work; and if it's good, you're happy that it's there. You want to hang on to it and, yeah, to show it to other people.
Hopefully, that's all that's going on in your relationship. Maybe your girlfriend is just happy to have produced a painting that she feels is worth displaying. Maybe she worries that you won't understand - or that she won't be able to explain - this difference between the work and the experience. In fact, she may even be embarrassed about taking pride in something like that. If I wrote down the entire story of my relationship with the artist chick and had you read it, you'd say, "Jesus, Clay, what the fuck were you thinking? You obviously knew this was a stupid idea and yet you did it anyway and you've been paying for it ever since." And I wouldn't be able to disagree with the sentiment. But your reaction wouldn't make me regret having written it or even having shown it to you. Quite the opposite, actually.
The point is simply that we feel vulnerable when we reveal these things about ourselves and yet we do it anyway. We want you to pay attention to the work, but we don't want to have to then go back and justify the decisions or emotions you see in them. This becomes even more problematic if we appear nostalgic, if we give the impression that we wish we could relive those experiences. And often times we do give that impression.
Maybe your girlfriend did have some sort of relationship with the subject of this painting and it went badly and now she just doesn't want to have to explain to you the seeming contradiction of regretting the relationship and keeping the painting around. I don't know. But the painting is something that came out of her. The simple fact that she made it makes it important. Not exactly the same thing as, say, a child, but not entirely dissimilar either. Do your best to keep that in mind.
posted by Clay201 at 7:09 AM on February 7, 2007 [2 favorites]
I agree with those who have pointed out that an artist's relationship with their work is separate from their relationship with the people they draw. However, if you are bothered and you can't get over it, then it's fair for you to ask her to do something.
In discussing the situation with her, make sure that you let her know that it's about your emotional reaction, and not about your intellectual response to her art or to her faithfulness or love for you.
I would add, as the daughter of a painter, don't ask her to paint you as part of the solution. What you asking of her, and the compromise (whatever it is) that you two will have to come to is going to be difficult for her. This may have been the first successful large piece that she did; it may have other special meanings. Asking her to remove the piece from its special place *and* replace it with a picture of you, yet to be painted, well, I'm having trouble explaining, but let's say I can see this really really not going well with an artist.
Plus, having someone paint you can be very emotionally challenging. And that goes doubly (for artist and subject) when there is a relationship between you. If there is any feeling of resentment or obligation, well, it can go very badly. If the picture is large, let's say it takes 6 months from concept, planning, sketching, through painting. That could mean 6 months of wonderful, intimate discovery. Or it could mean 6 month of thinking "I'm doing this because he couldn't get over the fact that my best and favourite painting happens to have my stupid ex in it" every time she looks at you.
posted by carmen at 7:13 AM on February 7, 2007
In discussing the situation with her, make sure that you let her know that it's about your emotional reaction, and not about your intellectual response to her art or to her faithfulness or love for you.
I would add, as the daughter of a painter, don't ask her to paint you as part of the solution. What you asking of her, and the compromise (whatever it is) that you two will have to come to is going to be difficult for her. This may have been the first successful large piece that she did; it may have other special meanings. Asking her to remove the piece from its special place *and* replace it with a picture of you, yet to be painted, well, I'm having trouble explaining, but let's say I can see this really really not going well with an artist.
Plus, having someone paint you can be very emotionally challenging. And that goes doubly (for artist and subject) when there is a relationship between you. If there is any feeling of resentment or obligation, well, it can go very badly. If the picture is large, let's say it takes 6 months from concept, planning, sketching, through painting. That could mean 6 months of wonderful, intimate discovery. Or it could mean 6 month of thinking "I'm doing this because he couldn't get over the fact that my best and favourite painting happens to have my stupid ex in it" every time she looks at you.
posted by carmen at 7:13 AM on February 7, 2007
There are 2 issues for the asker, the possible lie and the definite feeling.
The feeling is real and legit and more than enough to merit an accomodation regarding the placement/display of the painting. When you speak to your wife about it, keep it focused on how the paininting makes you feel, because the truth is that you don't know with 100% certainty that, to her, it represents the old lover. But to you it does, so say "This painting really reminds me of (a picture of) your old lover, and it seeing it all the time makes me very uncomfortable. Let's find another place for it or just take it down alltogether."
That approach is non-accusatory and let's her go along, without even touching the whole question of whether or not she lied about it.
When the painting isn't in your face, that possible lie won't be such a big deal, because you won't have the daily/hourly resuscitation of the sense that you've been duped or mistreated. With it out of the way, you'll be able to form a new perspective on her statement about the painting, and her statement might not seem like such a big deal anymore.
posted by NortonDC at 7:25 AM on February 7, 2007
The feeling is real and legit and more than enough to merit an accomodation regarding the placement/display of the painting. When you speak to your wife about it, keep it focused on how the paininting makes you feel, because the truth is that you don't know with 100% certainty that, to her, it represents the old lover. But to you it does, so say "This painting really reminds me of (a picture of) your old lover, and it seeing it all the time makes me very uncomfortable. Let's find another place for it or just take it down alltogether."
That approach is non-accusatory and let's her go along, without even touching the whole question of whether or not she lied about it.
When the painting isn't in your face, that possible lie won't be such a big deal, because you won't have the daily/hourly resuscitation of the sense that you've been duped or mistreated. With it out of the way, you'll be able to form a new perspective on her statement about the painting, and her statement might not seem like such a big deal anymore.
posted by NortonDC at 7:25 AM on February 7, 2007
It makes sense to be taken aback and upset, but she's probably got the painting up because she likes the painting, and is proud of it, and she probably lied about it, so as not open a pandora's box herself.
You should probably just let it go. And realise, as a previous poster mentioned, that she married you, and didn't marry the other guy. She made a choice, and she chose you; if there are things in your marriage that make you uneasy about that choice then address those things. But a painting shouldn't be it.
posted by Kololo at 7:33 AM on February 7, 2007
You should probably just let it go. And realise, as a previous poster mentioned, that she married you, and didn't marry the other guy. She made a choice, and she chose you; if there are things in your marriage that make you uneasy about that choice then address those things. But a painting shouldn't be it.
posted by Kololo at 7:33 AM on February 7, 2007
I realize this is a little different, but my fiancee is a painter and she has two small paintings in her apartment of an ex-boyfriend. I've known all along who the sitter is and it doesn't really bother me. We both realize that they are two great paintings regardless of their subject. The sitter is certainly a critical part of any portrait or figurative painting, but there is so much more going on. She may like it for reasons that have nothing to do with her relationship to him.
So, as others have said, I would say something to her, but not in any kind of accusative way. Just get it out in the open.
posted by tanglewoodtree at 8:10 AM on February 7, 2007
So, as others have said, I would say something to her, but not in any kind of accusative way. Just get it out in the open.
posted by tanglewoodtree at 8:10 AM on February 7, 2007
That's my last Duchess painted on the wall,
Looking as if she were alive...
posted by mosk at 8:54 AM on February 7, 2007
Looking as if she were alive...
posted by mosk at 8:54 AM on February 7, 2007
i guess it depends on your attitude to honesty in your relationship. to me the painting doesn't seem like a big deal, but i'm amazed at the amount of people here justifying her lying about it. to me, that's about as close to a deal-breaker as possible, because if people in a relationship think it's ok to lie (to protect your feelings or for any reason) about one thing, how do you know where they will draw the line about lying about other things? so if it were me, i would absolutely have to bring this up. but then, there is the possibility that she's not lying, so keep that in mind as well.
posted by lgyre at 11:29 AM on February 7, 2007
posted by lgyre at 11:29 AM on February 7, 2007
Read James Joyce's classic short story The Dead which depicts a similar situation.
posted by Kirklander at 11:53 AM on February 7, 2007
posted by Kirklander at 11:53 AM on February 7, 2007
RE lying: Nobody should lie. Nobody should have to lie. But if you want your SO to tell you the truth, you must not become obsessive, suicidal, angry and depressed for more than three minutes when she does.
Nobody should flip out when they hear the truth. They should listen calmly and objectively, ask a few questions to make sure they’ve understood correctly, and move on with the new information.
Fact is, people do flip out and their SOs do lie to them to keep the peace. If people are going to flip out, they have to be able to deal with the fact of peace-keeping lies. It’s just the way it works. If you don’t want someone to lie to you, don’t make it difficult for them to tell the truth.
Our OP describes both of them as depressive and sensitive and himself as “incredibly upset.” He talks about outrage and queasiness and confrontation, and admits to not knowing how to deal with the fact of past partners. Jealousy is normal, but this is a little more intense than usual. Most people have dealt with the existence of past partners by the time they get married. I suspect our OP of fitting the bill of someone who flips out when he hears something he doesn’t like.
My beloved and I are both a little broken. In return for acceptance we forgive one another our frailties. It sounds to me as though our OP and his beloved are each a little broken too, and need to be understanding of one another. Even when they don’t behave perfectly. If she loves him anyway even though he flips out, it would be good if he could love her anyway even though she gives in to the temptation to smooth things out by lying.
And it would be best of all if they could both learn to aspire to better communication, to listening calmly and to telling the truth. But that’s going to take a while, and until they get there they need to be gentle with one another.
posted by kika at 12:56 PM on February 7, 2007
Nobody should flip out when they hear the truth. They should listen calmly and objectively, ask a few questions to make sure they’ve understood correctly, and move on with the new information.
Fact is, people do flip out and their SOs do lie to them to keep the peace. If people are going to flip out, they have to be able to deal with the fact of peace-keeping lies. It’s just the way it works. If you don’t want someone to lie to you, don’t make it difficult for them to tell the truth.
Our OP describes both of them as depressive and sensitive and himself as “incredibly upset.” He talks about outrage and queasiness and confrontation, and admits to not knowing how to deal with the fact of past partners. Jealousy is normal, but this is a little more intense than usual. Most people have dealt with the existence of past partners by the time they get married. I suspect our OP of fitting the bill of someone who flips out when he hears something he doesn’t like.
My beloved and I are both a little broken. In return for acceptance we forgive one another our frailties. It sounds to me as though our OP and his beloved are each a little broken too, and need to be understanding of one another. Even when they don’t behave perfectly. If she loves him anyway even though he flips out, it would be good if he could love her anyway even though she gives in to the temptation to smooth things out by lying.
And it would be best of all if they could both learn to aspire to better communication, to listening calmly and to telling the truth. But that’s going to take a while, and until they get there they need to be gentle with one another.
posted by kika at 12:56 PM on February 7, 2007
kika:
Nobody should have to lie. But if you want your SO to tell you the truth, you must not become obsessive, suicidal, angry and depressed for more than three minutes when she does.
Wow. How incredibly judgmental of you. Not to mention that you've just pulled it out of your ass, rather than out of anything that the post said.
You have no idea if he has ever "flipped out", you just make the assumption that he has in the past and she's forgiven him so it's okay if she lies. WTF?
Everything you posted in that was made up full cloth or twisted from your assumptions. He in no way said the he couldn't deal with the fact she'd HAD past partners... He said "I am not expecting her to erase the past but am confused as to how I am meant to deal with her past partners." Unless, of course, I'm reading his post on Bizarro-AskMetafilter. In which case, I apologize.
Your sweeping judgments and assumptions are useless. This is a forum to try to ~help~ people, not condemn them.
OP - Talk to your wife. Explain, without any recrimination, that you ran across the photos and you don't understand why she lied, nor how that can be good for your fledgling marriage.
No matter what, don't let it become you and she being nasty or accusatory. Ask her why she lied, and why it is that she wants the painting up. If you're lucky, it ~will~ be that she has just choked and then couldn't figure out how to stop the lie. If not, better that the two of you talk about it now, rather than a sore spot between you growing worse as time goes on. (Because if you resent and are hurt by it, there will be distance between you, no matter what)
No matter what, I wish you the best. It's never easy to find out that someone you love has lied to you about something that you consider important. I hope everything is much, much smaller and less important than it seems to you right now. If you need to talk, my email is in my profile.
posted by Meep! Eek! at 5:47 PM on February 7, 2007
Nobody should have to lie. But if you want your SO to tell you the truth, you must not become obsessive, suicidal, angry and depressed for more than three minutes when she does.
Wow. How incredibly judgmental of you. Not to mention that you've just pulled it out of your ass, rather than out of anything that the post said.
You have no idea if he has ever "flipped out", you just make the assumption that he has in the past and she's forgiven him so it's okay if she lies. WTF?
Everything you posted in that was made up full cloth or twisted from your assumptions. He in no way said the he couldn't deal with the fact she'd HAD past partners... He said "I am not expecting her to erase the past but am confused as to how I am meant to deal with her past partners." Unless, of course, I'm reading his post on Bizarro-AskMetafilter. In which case, I apologize.
Your sweeping judgments and assumptions are useless. This is a forum to try to ~help~ people, not condemn them.
OP - Talk to your wife. Explain, without any recrimination, that you ran across the photos and you don't understand why she lied, nor how that can be good for your fledgling marriage.
No matter what, don't let it become you and she being nasty or accusatory. Ask her why she lied, and why it is that she wants the painting up. If you're lucky, it ~will~ be that she has just choked and then couldn't figure out how to stop the lie. If not, better that the two of you talk about it now, rather than a sore spot between you growing worse as time goes on. (Because if you resent and are hurt by it, there will be distance between you, no matter what)
No matter what, I wish you the best. It's never easy to find out that someone you love has lied to you about something that you consider important. I hope everything is much, much smaller and less important than it seems to you right now. If you need to talk, my email is in my profile.
posted by Meep! Eek! at 5:47 PM on February 7, 2007
I say get it on the table. Don't be cruel, nor harsh, nor holier than thou, but get it on the table. Don't live with a lie. Okay, so you're a human being, and so is she, so be willing to live with some lies. Pick your battles, let the small stuff slide; tell her you like her mother, tell her that you think her organic-tofu-sprouts-n-grits-n-gruel is the best, even though you feed to the dog under the table.
But having this mook staring at you as you eat your Wheaties is not small and not going to get easier, it'll be a wedge, daily adding bricks in a wall that she started building with the lie. You leave this undisclosed and it's a snow-fence, all sorts of other bs will build around it in huge, unhappy drifts. I'm with the above posters in thinking that the lie is worse than the painting, that the lie is the crux of it all, without the lie the painting issue would have resolved freely and fast.
posted by dancestoblue at 7:19 PM on February 7, 2007
But having this mook staring at you as you eat your Wheaties is not small and not going to get easier, it'll be a wedge, daily adding bricks in a wall that she started building with the lie. You leave this undisclosed and it's a snow-fence, all sorts of other bs will build around it in huge, unhappy drifts. I'm with the above posters in thinking that the lie is worse than the painting, that the lie is the crux of it all, without the lie the painting issue would have resolved freely and fast.
posted by dancestoblue at 7:19 PM on February 7, 2007
Meep! Eek! - You're right, I have no idea whether our OP becomes "obsessive, suicidal, angry and depressed for more than three minutes" when his wife talks about the intimate times she shared with her exes. Unfortunately, I was really unclear. In that post I was responding to lgyre (which I didn't specify) and using "you" generically. To be really clear I should have used the pronoun "one" instead. I'd already given my advice to our OP, and this post was to elaborate to lgyre on why I wasn't making much fuss about the lie.
On the other hand, Meep! Eek!, it's not true that I made a lot of assumptions out of whole cloth. I created an interpretation based on the post, which was *itself* someone flipping out. If I discover something about my beloved that I didn't know about before and that seems to have been deliberately obfuscated, I ask. I don't post to Metafilter. I don't become queasy.
Interestingly, I don't think I'm being judgemental at all. Ok, so our OP is flipping out to one degree or another. Whatever, I'm not the most stable person myself. I don't think that they need to break up, that he's a terrible person for not managing a new marriage serenely, or that she's a terrible person for being non-confrontational. I said specifically, "people do." Meaning I do not, lgyre should not, our OP should not, get all worked up about what people "should" do, but just get on with things and look at life practically. What *can* we do?
*People do* respond emotionally to sexual jealousy and to threats to our well-being. The ideal might to be a Zen monk, but most of us aren't. Our OP does not describe himself as a Zen monk.
*People do* fib. The ideal might to be to tell the complete truth at all times and damn the torpedoes, but that takes a kind of courage that many people don't have. I pride myself on my truth-telling, but my self-image crumbles when I say "the check is in the mail" yet again. I know it's wrong, and I tell the truth under all other circumstances (so far) but money and paperwork turn me cowardly. Our OP describes his SO as sensitive, not as a rock.
This isn't being judgemental. It's recognising the human condition. If we are going to live together as humans, we need to be able to cope with one another's frailties and to admit to our own. To forgive ourselves for our shortcomings and to forgive the people who share and complicate and enrich our lives.
Expecting ourselves and our SOs to live up to our ideals at all times leads to letdown. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't have ideals or standards. If our OP is always unflappable and accepting and his wife consistently lies about important things, then our OP probably needs to cut his losses and move on.
I thought this was an interesting question worth developing precisely because I put a very high premium on the truth, and I was interested in the fact that I wasn't focussing on the fib in this case. Why not? Let's explore...
posted by kika at 5:06 AM on February 8, 2007
On the other hand, Meep! Eek!, it's not true that I made a lot of assumptions out of whole cloth. I created an interpretation based on the post, which was *itself* someone flipping out. If I discover something about my beloved that I didn't know about before and that seems to have been deliberately obfuscated, I ask. I don't post to Metafilter. I don't become queasy.
Interestingly, I don't think I'm being judgemental at all. Ok, so our OP is flipping out to one degree or another. Whatever, I'm not the most stable person myself. I don't think that they need to break up, that he's a terrible person for not managing a new marriage serenely, or that she's a terrible person for being non-confrontational. I said specifically, "people do." Meaning I do not, lgyre should not, our OP should not, get all worked up about what people "should" do, but just get on with things and look at life practically. What *can* we do?
*People do* respond emotionally to sexual jealousy and to threats to our well-being. The ideal might to be a Zen monk, but most of us aren't. Our OP does not describe himself as a Zen monk.
*People do* fib. The ideal might to be to tell the complete truth at all times and damn the torpedoes, but that takes a kind of courage that many people don't have. I pride myself on my truth-telling, but my self-image crumbles when I say "the check is in the mail" yet again. I know it's wrong, and I tell the truth under all other circumstances (so far) but money and paperwork turn me cowardly. Our OP describes his SO as sensitive, not as a rock.
This isn't being judgemental. It's recognising the human condition. If we are going to live together as humans, we need to be able to cope with one another's frailties and to admit to our own. To forgive ourselves for our shortcomings and to forgive the people who share and complicate and enrich our lives.
Expecting ourselves and our SOs to live up to our ideals at all times leads to letdown. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't have ideals or standards. If our OP is always unflappable and accepting and his wife consistently lies about important things, then our OP probably needs to cut his losses and move on.
I thought this was an interesting question worth developing precisely because I put a very high premium on the truth, and I was interested in the fact that I wasn't focussing on the fib in this case. Why not? Let's explore...
posted by kika at 5:06 AM on February 8, 2007
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I'd say, hey, I noticed this guy in a picture who looks just like that painting, and it looks like he was one of your ex's. If you like having it up because of its technical merit or you think it's one of your best works, and you were worried about telling me the truth about the subject because I'd be needlessly jealous, that's cool. Because hey, he's in a picture and I'm right here. I can flip him the bird every day. Whatever. But if you can't laugh at me flipping the bird and reassure me that there isn't something else going on with the picture, we need to talk.
Yeah, my wife and I communicate pretty well.
posted by empyrean at 11:32 PM on February 6, 2007 [5 favorites]