Looking for feedback on a citymap/GIS idea
January 24, 2007 5:22 PM Subscribe
My local city lacks a good online GIS/information map. I have a perfect idea for one, but am stuck trying to figure out to implement it. Anyone have suggestions/experience with building a web2.0/GIS website aimed at helping city residents find local information/businesses ?
I recently took over a small business for a friend, and in exploring ways to grow and expand my business, I'm very frustrated at the lack of local online resources. I checked out the City/Gov websites (including Chamber of Commerce) but became frustrated because the city/gov websites are poorly designed and when/if you do find the dept you want, it typically says "Just call us"... blech. Chamber of Commerce wants $400+ a year for membership and a 1-man business like mine---thats just not doable.
I know there are a variety of services out there (Citysearch, yellow pages, google maps).. but what I am thinking is that local residents would be interested in having all that information on ONE WEBSITE in an easy to navigate map. What I envision would be a map that you can filter/tag for whatever you are interested in. Say "I want to see churches and Parks" .. OR .. "I want to see movie theaters and restaurants" and the map would update to show you those locations. ( I've lived here for 15+ years and even though it would be some work..I have no fear of going around collecting the info I need, I know the city pretty well by now)
It would seem to me...that with all the "Web 2.0" type services available out on the internet,..It shouldnt be to hard (or expensive) to create a website around this idea. I would most likely start filling it with freely public information first (parks, schools, city services).. to get residents interested and then build up to adding local business information (the website would be free to residents, but a small yearly fee to businesses to be listed, I'm thinking $100 a year) I've done alot of Googling on GIS solutions over the past week and the one service I found that I really like (and is closest to what I envision) is www.mapbuilder.net However when I build my map and copy/paste the source code to my test website, it strips out the "tag cloud" (which is the feature I want the most) (yes, I've emailed them this question)
So I ask you, dear Ask-Mefi readers...
1.) Good idea?.. bad idea?... what am I overlooking? (I've gone around to a few local businesses that I know and so far.. all of them love the idea) I've come up with a perfect, short, memorable domain name... so I think if I can implement the code and make it look good and easy to use, I'll have a homerun on my hands.
2.) As a local resident of your city... how easy/hard is it for you to track down local information?.. do you have one good resource?.. if not, (and you COULD have one).. what kinds of information would you (as a resident) like to see on it?
3.) If you are a business owner (if not, imagine you are :).... Would you consider paying for a service like this if the site got enough residential page-views to bring you new customers ? If NOT, what information/services could I add that would interest local businesses.
4.) How do I pull this off without spending the next 6 months having to learn coding?.. I know the basics of HTML, and I can stumble though java/xml/php if the code already exists and all I have to do is tweak/modify it. Remember, my goal is to have a nice, simple, no-distractions website consisting of a map showing local information. I dont need a blog or joomla or any complex ecommerce site.
I recently took over a small business for a friend, and in exploring ways to grow and expand my business, I'm very frustrated at the lack of local online resources. I checked out the City/Gov websites (including Chamber of Commerce) but became frustrated because the city/gov websites are poorly designed and when/if you do find the dept you want, it typically says "Just call us"... blech. Chamber of Commerce wants $400+ a year for membership and a 1-man business like mine---thats just not doable.
I know there are a variety of services out there (Citysearch, yellow pages, google maps).. but what I am thinking is that local residents would be interested in having all that information on ONE WEBSITE in an easy to navigate map. What I envision would be a map that you can filter/tag for whatever you are interested in. Say "I want to see churches and Parks" .. OR .. "I want to see movie theaters and restaurants" and the map would update to show you those locations. ( I've lived here for 15+ years and even though it would be some work..I have no fear of going around collecting the info I need, I know the city pretty well by now)
It would seem to me...that with all the "Web 2.0" type services available out on the internet,..It shouldnt be to hard (or expensive) to create a website around this idea. I would most likely start filling it with freely public information first (parks, schools, city services).. to get residents interested and then build up to adding local business information (the website would be free to residents, but a small yearly fee to businesses to be listed, I'm thinking $100 a year) I've done alot of Googling on GIS solutions over the past week and the one service I found that I really like (and is closest to what I envision) is www.mapbuilder.net However when I build my map and copy/paste the source code to my test website, it strips out the "tag cloud" (which is the feature I want the most) (yes, I've emailed them this question)
So I ask you, dear Ask-Mefi readers...
1.) Good idea?.. bad idea?... what am I overlooking? (I've gone around to a few local businesses that I know and so far.. all of them love the idea) I've come up with a perfect, short, memorable domain name... so I think if I can implement the code and make it look good and easy to use, I'll have a homerun on my hands.
2.) As a local resident of your city... how easy/hard is it for you to track down local information?.. do you have one good resource?.. if not, (and you COULD have one).. what kinds of information would you (as a resident) like to see on it?
3.) If you are a business owner (if not, imagine you are :).... Would you consider paying for a service like this if the site got enough residential page-views to bring you new customers ? If NOT, what information/services could I add that would interest local businesses.
4.) How do I pull this off without spending the next 6 months having to learn coding?.. I know the basics of HTML, and I can stumble though java/xml/php if the code already exists and all I have to do is tweak/modify it. Remember, my goal is to have a nice, simple, no-distractions website consisting of a map showing local information. I dont need a blog or joomla or any complex ecommerce site.
I have to agree with brain cloud here. This is pretty much what Google Maps already does (albeit poorly for some areas) and undertaking this project will probably become a full time job to you.
posted by saraswati at 5:47 PM on January 24, 2007
posted by saraswati at 5:47 PM on January 24, 2007
Firstly, go here: http://maps.google.com/ type in your location and see what you get. All you'd need to do to get your business on there is to have a website for your business (with an address on it somewhere) that shows up in google.
While we're on the subject of google, you might like to have a look at yourself/town in Google Earth - this has overlays for the same kind of business information that google maps has.
This might be too in-depth for what you want, but the other thing that springs to mind, is something that Jon Udell has started recenty for the town he lives in:
http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/03/conceptual-barriers/
http://elmcity.info/
posted by dflock at 5:51 PM on January 24, 2007
While we're on the subject of google, you might like to have a look at yourself/town in Google Earth - this has overlays for the same kind of business information that google maps has.
This might be too in-depth for what you want, but the other thing that springs to mind, is something that Jon Udell has started recenty for the town he lives in:
http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/01/03/conceptual-barriers/
http://elmcity.info/
posted by dflock at 5:51 PM on January 24, 2007
Man, GIS is much more labor intensive than I sense you're thinking it is. Especially if you're going to be collecting and coding the information yourself.
Also—and this is from professional experience—any time somebody describes a project that involves both tagging and GIS, I am immediately suspicious. Both of those technologies have reached a saturation point where people are trying to stuff them everywhere they can.
Again, speaking from experience: You need to step back and ask people around the community whether they are familiar a) browsing dynamic maps over the internet, b) tagging objects and retrieving via tag searching, and c) both at the same time. This, in addition to finding out whether average people in your community (not 20 somethings) need the resource you want to provide. You may see that most people either already know where their churches and movie theaters are, or are happy with the retrieval tools currently available to them.
posted by Hildago at 5:59 PM on January 24, 2007
Also—and this is from professional experience—any time somebody describes a project that involves both tagging and GIS, I am immediately suspicious. Both of those technologies have reached a saturation point where people are trying to stuff them everywhere they can.
Again, speaking from experience: You need to step back and ask people around the community whether they are familiar a) browsing dynamic maps over the internet, b) tagging objects and retrieving via tag searching, and c) both at the same time. This, in addition to finding out whether average people in your community (not 20 somethings) need the resource you want to provide. You may see that most people either already know where their churches and movie theaters are, or are happy with the retrieval tools currently available to them.
posted by Hildago at 5:59 PM on January 24, 2007
If you are a business owner (if not, imagine you are :).... Would you consider paying for a service like this if the site got enough residential page-views to bring you new customers ?
One problem with a service like this, is that it's actually pretty useless to the community unless everything is on there, not just businesses that pay their dues.
- If only 10% of businesses can be found on your map, why would people use the site? People will be missing out on most of the information they want. They can find almost 100% of businesses in the Yellow Pages.
- If every business is on there, why would a business pay you, when your map is just going to show up all their competitors?
Businesses pay to get their listing in the Yellow Pages because it has such huge penetration, and because they can pay more to get more prominance for their business. I don't know how you are going to emulate this kind of penetration, and differentiation of product on your service, at least not in any way that Google is already working towards.
And, as others have said, from the community services side of things, being able to tell residents where their nearest park is is probably not enough to base this on.
posted by Jimbob at 6:14 PM on January 24, 2007
One problem with a service like this, is that it's actually pretty useless to the community unless everything is on there, not just businesses that pay their dues.
- If only 10% of businesses can be found on your map, why would people use the site? People will be missing out on most of the information they want. They can find almost 100% of businesses in the Yellow Pages.
- If every business is on there, why would a business pay you, when your map is just going to show up all their competitors?
Businesses pay to get their listing in the Yellow Pages because it has such huge penetration, and because they can pay more to get more prominance for their business. I don't know how you are going to emulate this kind of penetration, and differentiation of product on your service, at least not in any way that Google is already working towards.
And, as others have said, from the community services side of things, being able to tell residents where their nearest park is is probably not enough to base this on.
posted by Jimbob at 6:14 PM on January 24, 2007
Response by poster: Brain Cloud
Well,..YES, that IS what Google Maps is for, but Google Maps only shows you 1 result at a time. (unless I'm missing something) What if I want to see all sushi restaurants in my town, so I can see which one is nearest me?.. What if I have children in multiple schools and I want to see them all on a map and be able to click on them to easily get their phone number(s)?
I actually dont agree that the $400 yearly for the CoC is worth it. It doesnt get you much (just a listing on their website) And the local CoC is kind of 'elitest' (meaning the events and meetings are more for upscale businesses to hobnob with each other and not fair/equitable "thinktanks" to generate ideas to stimulate local economy.
The reason I think its better than the local CoC is because my map idea has ALL the information in one place. Doing a search on Google Maps you have to already know something (like the address).. in my idea, you dont. you just go the website, click on the tag/topic your interested in, and the map shows you those results. If you click on a specific marker, a balloon pops up with that items info (address, weblink, phone #'s and/or additional info/pictures)
i do agree with what some of you are saying, that it'd be hard to compete with the yellow pages. ( I sat around for a few hours today flipping through the yellow pages to see what my "competition" is ..)... I still like the idea, because (as opposed to the yellow pages) my idea has the spatial/geographic element, not only are you getting local information, you can immediately also see WHERE the things are located
posted by jmnugent at 6:34 PM on January 24, 2007
Well,..YES, that IS what Google Maps is for, but Google Maps only shows you 1 result at a time. (unless I'm missing something) What if I want to see all sushi restaurants in my town, so I can see which one is nearest me?.. What if I have children in multiple schools and I want to see them all on a map and be able to click on them to easily get their phone number(s)?
I actually dont agree that the $400 yearly for the CoC is worth it. It doesnt get you much (just a listing on their website) And the local CoC is kind of 'elitest' (meaning the events and meetings are more for upscale businesses to hobnob with each other and not fair/equitable "thinktanks" to generate ideas to stimulate local economy.
The reason I think its better than the local CoC is because my map idea has ALL the information in one place. Doing a search on Google Maps you have to already know something (like the address).. in my idea, you dont. you just go the website, click on the tag/topic your interested in, and the map shows you those results. If you click on a specific marker, a balloon pops up with that items info (address, weblink, phone #'s and/or additional info/pictures)
i do agree with what some of you are saying, that it'd be hard to compete with the yellow pages. ( I sat around for a few hours today flipping through the yellow pages to see what my "competition" is ..)... I still like the idea, because (as opposed to the yellow pages) my idea has the spatial/geographic element, not only are you getting local information, you can immediately also see WHERE the things are located
posted by jmnugent at 6:34 PM on January 24, 2007
Response by poster: Hildago
"...GIS is more complex than you think.."
From what I can see (granted, I have no GIS experience).. it doesnt seem that difficult. GIS is an exploding field and there are LOTS of open-source and distributed GIS solutions availble now ( I spent the last week using the Stumble Upon toolbar surfing GIS projects and comparing offerings, not that that makes me an expert or anything)
The www.mapbuilder.net tool I played around with doesnt really require much GIS experience. All you have to do is find your locations and input the data you want (address, lat/long, phone#, notes, images, tags,) and once you get the map done, there is an "Source Code" option that lets you copy/paste the source code to your own website.
I've thought about running a survey to local residents,..I just have to figure out how to do it (mass mailing?).. I understand what you mean about people being happy with their usual sources. Even though my town has a "gentrified" older population who arent as technically adept, there is phenomenal youth/growth on the west side of town and we are starting to hit a "tipping point" in population that I think makes something like this feasible. Also, (having lived here for so long).. one of the problems with this town is no one seems to understand the quantity or quality of things it has to offer. I think if they saw it on a map, it would generate economic growth (keep people spending their dollars in town instead of going to the other bigger, more hip town next door..
Not that thats my battle to fight... but as a resident, I'd like to see our city be more cutting edge and economically healthy...
For the record.. our City Gov does have an IT dept and a GIS department, but what limited GIS information they have looks like it was made BY city planners FOR city planners with no thought of residential interaction or opinion.
posted by jmnugent at 6:43 PM on January 24, 2007
"...GIS is more complex than you think.."
From what I can see (granted, I have no GIS experience).. it doesnt seem that difficult. GIS is an exploding field and there are LOTS of open-source and distributed GIS solutions availble now ( I spent the last week using the Stumble Upon toolbar surfing GIS projects and comparing offerings, not that that makes me an expert or anything)
The www.mapbuilder.net tool I played around with doesnt really require much GIS experience. All you have to do is find your locations and input the data you want (address, lat/long, phone#, notes, images, tags,) and once you get the map done, there is an "Source Code" option that lets you copy/paste the source code to your own website.
I've thought about running a survey to local residents,..I just have to figure out how to do it (mass mailing?).. I understand what you mean about people being happy with their usual sources. Even though my town has a "gentrified" older population who arent as technically adept, there is phenomenal youth/growth on the west side of town and we are starting to hit a "tipping point" in population that I think makes something like this feasible. Also, (having lived here for so long).. one of the problems with this town is no one seems to understand the quantity or quality of things it has to offer. I think if they saw it on a map, it would generate economic growth (keep people spending their dollars in town instead of going to the other bigger, more hip town next door..
Not that thats my battle to fight... but as a resident, I'd like to see our city be more cutting edge and economically healthy...
For the record.. our City Gov does have an IT dept and a GIS department, but what limited GIS information they have looks like it was made BY city planners FOR city planners with no thought of residential interaction or opinion.
posted by jmnugent at 6:43 PM on January 24, 2007
Look into UMN's mapserver and related. The hardest part of your task is the data collection and storage, though.
posted by sandking at 6:48 PM on January 24, 2007
posted by sandking at 6:48 PM on January 24, 2007
but Google Maps only shows you 1 result at a time. (unless I'm missing something)
If you click "Find businesses" from the G.M. main page, you can put a keyword in the first search box and a location in the second. All possible results for the keyword will be shown on the map with little labeled balloons. There may be multiple pages of maps & results depending on what's available.
I don't know where they scrape the info from -- the Yellow Pages maybe?
With respect to your local government getting involved in a project such as this -- I think it is very important to understand that their use of GIS technology to catalog public assets has to be their main priority. There is quite a bit more to it than catering to planners (which, btw, is pretty important in the long run). It is a mountain of work - more than most people realize. The push to catalog local assets comes from above -- waaay above, think Federal Government regulations, see GASB 34 for details. If your city is small, no doubt their resources in this area are spread mighty thin and they are not likely to have the extra manpower, dollars or inclination to go there.
posted by brain cloud at 7:11 PM on January 24, 2007
If you click "Find businesses" from the G.M. main page, you can put a keyword in the first search box and a location in the second. All possible results for the keyword will be shown on the map with little labeled balloons. There may be multiple pages of maps & results depending on what's available.
I don't know where they scrape the info from -- the Yellow Pages maybe?
With respect to your local government getting involved in a project such as this -- I think it is very important to understand that their use of GIS technology to catalog public assets has to be their main priority. There is quite a bit more to it than catering to planners (which, btw, is pretty important in the long run). It is a mountain of work - more than most people realize. The push to catalog local assets comes from above -- waaay above, think Federal Government regulations, see GASB 34 for details. If your city is small, no doubt their resources in this area are spread mighty thin and they are not likely to have the extra manpower, dollars or inclination to go there.
posted by brain cloud at 7:11 PM on January 24, 2007
Take a look at Delorme Street Atlas or Street Atlas Plus.
You can find any city. Search for restaurants, hotels, whatever in the advanced search. Quite impressive.
posted by JayRwv at 7:27 PM on January 24, 2007
You can find any city. Search for restaurants, hotels, whatever in the advanced search. Quite impressive.
posted by JayRwv at 7:27 PM on January 24, 2007
Response by poster: brain cloud
"If you click "Find businesses" from the G.M. main page, you can put a keyword in the first search box and a location in the second. All possible results for the keyword will be shown on the map with little labeled balloons. There may be multiple pages of maps & results depending on what's available. I don't know where they scrape the info from -- the Yellow Pages maybe?"
You sir, are correct. I was not aware that Google Maps has that functionallity. And now I have to hate you. :P (kidding)
Hmm...well...I'm going to keep brainstorming the idea and see if I can come up with services and offerings that would make it interesting to locals. I'm also going to try to find a way to do a "survey" of local residents to see if they like the idea...
posted by jmnugent at 7:29 PM on January 24, 2007
"If you click "Find businesses" from the G.M. main page, you can put a keyword in the first search box and a location in the second. All possible results for the keyword will be shown on the map with little labeled balloons. There may be multiple pages of maps & results depending on what's available. I don't know where they scrape the info from -- the Yellow Pages maybe?"
You sir, are correct. I was not aware that Google Maps has that functionallity. And now I have to hate you. :P (kidding)
Hmm...well...I'm going to keep brainstorming the idea and see if I can come up with services and offerings that would make it interesting to locals. I'm also going to try to find a way to do a "survey" of local residents to see if they like the idea...
posted by jmnugent at 7:29 PM on January 24, 2007
Actually, now that I think about it . . .
I worked for a nonprofit organization trying to do something very similar to this. They were managing a few specific focuses, but it was mapping services for the benefit of users.
And it was a lot of work. A lot of boring work. Maintaining it is very hard, as is providing an interface that you can give to businesses to be able to provide and update the information (as well as the incentive to do so). Unlike a phone book, where people understand the limits of printing (if a business goes under, it can't get out of the book until next year), people will expect an online service to be up-to-date and regularly updated.
However, if you haven't looked at Yelp.com, you might want to. It compiles lists of businesses and such in cities, and users review said businesses. This page lists the sushi places around me. If you can convince people in your neighborhood/city to be involved, you can get a really useful system from that, I would think.
posted by that girl at 7:29 PM on January 24, 2007
I worked for a nonprofit organization trying to do something very similar to this. They were managing a few specific focuses, but it was mapping services for the benefit of users.
And it was a lot of work. A lot of boring work. Maintaining it is very hard, as is providing an interface that you can give to businesses to be able to provide and update the information (as well as the incentive to do so). Unlike a phone book, where people understand the limits of printing (if a business goes under, it can't get out of the book until next year), people will expect an online service to be up-to-date and regularly updated.
However, if you haven't looked at Yelp.com, you might want to. It compiles lists of businesses and such in cities, and users review said businesses. This page lists the sushi places around me. If you can convince people in your neighborhood/city to be involved, you can get a really useful system from that, I would think.
posted by that girl at 7:29 PM on January 24, 2007
btw, jmnugent -- I hope I did not come off too harsh. I don't think it's a bad idea, but it is a HUGE undertaking, there really is no easy way out if you wanted to do this from scratch.
Perhaps you could direct your energies toward organizing a rebel alliance of business owners who are put off by the local Chamber such as you are -- pool your talents and resources to bring things to the next level. But by all means, take care of your business first and foremost or the whole point will be lost, amirite?
posted by brain cloud at 7:34 PM on January 24, 2007
Perhaps you could direct your energies toward organizing a rebel alliance of business owners who are put off by the local Chamber such as you are -- pool your talents and resources to bring things to the next level. But by all means, take care of your business first and foremost or the whole point will be lost, amirite?
posted by brain cloud at 7:34 PM on January 24, 2007
Response by poster: brain cloud
"I hope I did not come off too harsh..."
No.. You didnt. Actually, I appreciate your "frankness". (seriously..its better to get clear, honest, direct feedback NOW before I get to far into a bad idea)
What I'm really trying to figure out, is the "feasibility" angle. Is it a good enough idea that I can make money at it? Can I come up with a combination of options/services that will appeal to local residents (such as the map, a schedule of local events, a discussion forum or blog on interesting local news items===all in one place).. enough that people would come to the site.
Its not so much that I want to foster some sort of "rebel alliance" -- Its more that I want tap the potential of getting all local residents involved in a website they can all use to be informed and have some pride/ownership in their local city. Our city (or certain parts of it) seem to "stagnate" and the city gov has tried over and over "jump-starting" areas like "downtown" to no avail. It seems to in this age of successes like Digg.com and "YOU" being on the cover of TIME, that the power of groups could be used to transform a city.
or maybe I'm just a dreamer.
posted by jmnugent at 7:48 PM on January 24, 2007
"I hope I did not come off too harsh..."
No.. You didnt. Actually, I appreciate your "frankness". (seriously..its better to get clear, honest, direct feedback NOW before I get to far into a bad idea)
What I'm really trying to figure out, is the "feasibility" angle. Is it a good enough idea that I can make money at it? Can I come up with a combination of options/services that will appeal to local residents (such as the map, a schedule of local events, a discussion forum or blog on interesting local news items===all in one place).. enough that people would come to the site.
Its not so much that I want to foster some sort of "rebel alliance" -- Its more that I want tap the potential of getting all local residents involved in a website they can all use to be informed and have some pride/ownership in their local city. Our city (or certain parts of it) seem to "stagnate" and the city gov has tried over and over "jump-starting" areas like "downtown" to no avail. It seems to in this age of successes like Digg.com and "YOU" being on the cover of TIME, that the power of groups could be used to transform a city.
or maybe I'm just a dreamer.
posted by jmnugent at 7:48 PM on January 24, 2007
Response by poster: that girl
"...people will expect an online service to be up-to-date and regularly updated."
"However, if you haven't looked at Yelp.com, you might want to."
(combining those two thoughts)..... I think thats why services like Yelp are so unreliable. There is no concerted (and coordinated) effort to keep the information updated. For example, I went to Yelp and did 5 to 10 searches on my city, and several of them came up completely empty. (no listings for sushi (there are 5).. no results for "movies" ??.. etc)
Thats one of the benefits of my idea---central point of contact/updates. I do all the work, and updates -- all with the focus of making it "resident friendly" so they can easily find businesses to give their business to. In trying to sell it to businesses, I would have to come up with a list of reasons why listing with me is better than Yellow pages. (or Citysearch, or Craigslist, or Yelp)...
posted by jmnugent at 7:58 PM on January 24, 2007
"...people will expect an online service to be up-to-date and regularly updated."
"However, if you haven't looked at Yelp.com, you might want to."
(combining those two thoughts)..... I think thats why services like Yelp are so unreliable. There is no concerted (and coordinated) effort to keep the information updated. For example, I went to Yelp and did 5 to 10 searches on my city, and several of them came up completely empty. (no listings for sushi (there are 5).. no results for "movies" ??.. etc)
Thats one of the benefits of my idea---central point of contact/updates. I do all the work, and updates -- all with the focus of making it "resident friendly" so they can easily find businesses to give their business to. In trying to sell it to businesses, I would have to come up with a list of reasons why listing with me is better than Yellow pages. (or Citysearch, or Craigslist, or Yelp)...
posted by jmnugent at 7:58 PM on January 24, 2007
I would *really* love to know what city this is!
posted by brain cloud at 7:59 PM on January 24, 2007
posted by brain cloud at 7:59 PM on January 24, 2007
Response by poster: brain cloud
"..I would really *love* to know..."
Greeley, Co
posted by jmnugent at 8:07 PM on January 24, 2007
"..I would really *love* to know..."
Greeley, Co
posted by jmnugent at 8:07 PM on January 24, 2007
Response by poster:
{momentary threadjack of what just went through my brain}
brain cloud: My name's brain cloud
jmnugent: *THE* brain cloud? Who cracked the IRS d-base?
brain cloud: That was a long time ago.
jmnugent: Jesus...
brain cloud: What?
jmnugent: I just thought... you were a guy.
brain cloud: Most guys do.
:) (thanks for the input/advice so far)
posted by jmnugent at 8:22 PM on January 24, 2007
{momentary threadjack of what just went through my brain}
brain cloud: My name's brain cloud
jmnugent: *THE* brain cloud? Who cracked the IRS d-base?
brain cloud: That was a long time ago.
jmnugent: Jesus...
brain cloud: What?
jmnugent: I just thought... you were a guy.
brain cloud: Most guys do.
:) (thanks for the input/advice so far)
posted by jmnugent at 8:22 PM on January 24, 2007
I'm a second year grad student in a GIS-related field and I still wouldn't attempt this in my "spare time" unless I had money for it upfront. Even though this is my primary interest, I'd still rather pay the $400 than drudge through this.
This is going to be a lot more work than you're bargaining for unless you're already quite adept with GIS, HTML, some scripting language, and database development.
I live in a much bigger city, with a long history of GIS development, and I am not aware of such a project here. However, my city DOES have an online mapping app that covers public/institutional features and allows queries. It seems as if Greeley is developing the same sort of thing: http://www.ci.greeley.co.us/cog/PageServiceDetails.asp?fkOrgID=27&SDID=8
posted by desjardins at 7:30 AM on January 25, 2007
This is going to be a lot more work than you're bargaining for unless you're already quite adept with GIS, HTML, some scripting language, and database development.
I live in a much bigger city, with a long history of GIS development, and I am not aware of such a project here. However, my city DOES have an online mapping app that covers public/institutional features and allows queries. It seems as if Greeley is developing the same sort of thing: http://www.ci.greeley.co.us/cog/PageServiceDetails.asp?fkOrgID=27&SDID=8
posted by desjardins at 7:30 AM on January 25, 2007
Response by poster: desjardins
Thanks..I appreciate the feedback. I have looked at the Greeley website, honestly did NOT notice the bright red news item that the GIS interactive map is coming :(
I did also send a long 2 page letter of feedback/response/suggestions to city of Greeley and the information officer responded saying she forwarded it to their IT dept and someone there would respond to me (no one has yet).
I'm just worried that the end results that come up on the city website wont really be useful for end-user-residents. There is a huge "useability" difference between city-planning type GIS information and actual useable residential GIS information. Its 2 different mindsets/approaches. My GUESS would be that the city websites get very little residential views.
posted by jmnugent at 9:11 AM on January 25, 2007
Thanks..I appreciate the feedback. I have looked at the Greeley website, honestly did NOT notice the bright red news item that the GIS interactive map is coming :(
I did also send a long 2 page letter of feedback/response/suggestions to city of Greeley and the information officer responded saying she forwarded it to their IT dept and someone there would respond to me (no one has yet).
I'm just worried that the end results that come up on the city website wont really be useful for end-user-residents. There is a huge "useability" difference between city-planning type GIS information and actual useable residential GIS information. Its 2 different mindsets/approaches. My GUESS would be that the city websites get very little residential views.
posted by jmnugent at 9:11 AM on January 25, 2007
>There is a huge "useability" difference between city-planning type GIS information and actual useable residential GIS information.< /em>
I agree. However, what you're really wanting is a business directory combined with a GIS of public facilities. You want to be able to search for sushi restaurants or city parks and come up with a reliable list. But what if there are 5 sushi restaurants in Greeley, and only 2 of them want to pay your $100 fee to list them? Your map is no longer reliable and defeats its own purpose. Either your purpose is to make money on this venture, or it is to make an accurate map of Greeley's establishments and institutions. Doing both is going to be very difficult.
A footnote: many neighborhood associations here use the city of Milwaukee's GIS offerings to gather data about property values, crime levels, etc, and use that as educational tools or leverage when lobbying. So, yes, residents DO use cities' GIS... just not in the way you're envisioning.
posted by desjardins at 3:34 PM on January 25, 2007
I agree. However, what you're really wanting is a business directory combined with a GIS of public facilities. You want to be able to search for sushi restaurants or city parks and come up with a reliable list. But what if there are 5 sushi restaurants in Greeley, and only 2 of them want to pay your $100 fee to list them? Your map is no longer reliable and defeats its own purpose. Either your purpose is to make money on this venture, or it is to make an accurate map of Greeley's establishments and institutions. Doing both is going to be very difficult.
A footnote: many neighborhood associations here use the city of Milwaukee's GIS offerings to gather data about property values, crime levels, etc, and use that as educational tools or leverage when lobbying. So, yes, residents DO use cities' GIS... just not in the way you're envisioning.
posted by desjardins at 3:34 PM on January 25, 2007
I seriously doubt that you will be able to beat google at their own game:
http://maps.google.com/?q=sushi+greeley+colorado
or that you should even try, frankly. You'd have all the obvious data collection and maintainence problems mentioned above, plus you'd have to get people to visit your site, instead of google. Can you honestly think of any reason why any average user would visit jmnugent.com instead of google.com? Really?
I think that you're coming at this from the wrong angle. It seems to me that if you build something more inclusive and social, with local blogs, photos, local writers and forums, etc... like the Jon Udel thing that I linked to above, then you could build local momentum on that and then use google maps on your site for your GIS/directory thing. They have an API you can use and they're happy for you to do this, for free.
You could then sell advertising on your site (to local businesses, preferably) if you wanted to generate revenue - advertising having the great advantage that local businesses will understand what you're talking about when you speak to them about it.
Also, doing it that way, you could use most of the open source web tools you mentioned - blogs, wiki's, forums etc... basically without any coding requirement on your part.
Dunc
posted by dflock at 7:56 AM on January 26, 2007
http://maps.google.com/?q=sushi+greeley+colorado
or that you should even try, frankly. You'd have all the obvious data collection and maintainence problems mentioned above, plus you'd have to get people to visit your site, instead of google. Can you honestly think of any reason why any average user would visit jmnugent.com instead of google.com? Really?
I think that you're coming at this from the wrong angle. It seems to me that if you build something more inclusive and social, with local blogs, photos, local writers and forums, etc... like the Jon Udel thing that I linked to above, then you could build local momentum on that and then use google maps on your site for your GIS/directory thing. They have an API you can use and they're happy for you to do this, for free.
You could then sell advertising on your site (to local businesses, preferably) if you wanted to generate revenue - advertising having the great advantage that local businesses will understand what you're talking about when you speak to them about it.
Also, doing it that way, you could use most of the open source web tools you mentioned - blogs, wiki's, forums etc... basically without any coding requirement on your part.
Dunc
posted by dflock at 7:56 AM on January 26, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you were determined to do this, however, there's always the Google Maps API, which is free, and with that and a little know-how you can bend Google Maps to your will. You'd have to have more skills than basic HTML, however.
Anyway -- if your main goal is to grow & expand your business, why would you want to get sidetracked with this? Even if you were a total coding demon, you'd really be up for pimping out this separate service, and collecting $100 a year from business and keeping track of everything entailed in that?
$400 to register with the CoC seems much more attractive in light of what you could potentially be taking on. Plus, as a member of your CoC you could push for a service like this, that they would be better positioned to implement and maintain.
posted by brain cloud at 5:42 PM on January 24, 2007