I feel that I am at a major crossroads in my life, and I would appreciate any input on my decision.
January 23, 2007 11:07 AM Subscribe
Please help a lawyer decide whether to become a police officer/detective.
My background: I am a 31 year-old male. I live in Southern California. I have been a practicing attorney for almost two years. I got married to the woman of my dreams about nine months ago. We plan to have children in two to three years.
The short question: Whether I should abandon my career as an attorney to pursue what I now realize is my dream of becoming a police detective?
How I arrived at this crossroads: My undergraduate degree is in psychology. After undergrad, I was interested in going to grad school for psychology or law school. Since I had a decent idea of what the psychology career path would entail, I took two years off to explore the legal career path by working at a law firm. I have never regretted my decision to pursue law over psychology. However, I have always entertained the idea of getting both degrees, but did not do so because I could not find an application for such a dual degree that sounded appealing. Recently, I’ve started to think that a career in law enforcement, specifically as a police detective, is the ideal fit for me. I am reasonably good at practicing law and enjoy the work okay; I know that both of these will get better with time.
Why I want to be a police detective: Just the idea of working as a police detective makes me happy and puts a smile on my face. If all jobs paid the same and came with the same prestige, I would choose to be an officer over a lawyer, psychologist, or anything else. I believe that my personality and natural talents lend themselves most directly to work as an officer: I am in very good physical condition, especially for a 31-year-old lawyer. I have been told that my presence and demeanor alone are intimidating (not because I’m big, I’m only 6’ 185 lbs.) and that even when I feel nervous inside I appear to be completely calm (think: interviewing witnesses and interrogating suspects). I love to study people’s unconscious motivations. I love to manipulate people/situations, mostly in ways that are benign or at least not harmful. By all accounts, I am an excellent driver. Nothing gives me more satisfaction that to help other people, even at the expense of my own interests. Even by lawyer standards, I am very reasonable, rational, and analytical (think: putting together evidence to solve a crime).
The problem, in order of increasing importance: (1) Obviously, I will need to take a pay cut. I would like to give this factor as little weight as possible, since I don’t think that money should enter into such an important equation. (2) From what I understand, I will need to start at the bottom even if I want to be a detective and even if I am a lawyer. (3) I don’t want to get injured or killed. (4) The most important factor is that, by any measure, my wife is hyper fearful/paranoid/anxious/etc. Without going into detail, suffice it to say, she will spend a lot of time worrying if I become an officer/detective (much more than the average spouse). Also, I would feel guilty because she married a lawyer, and her parents married her to a lawyer, not an police man.
My background: I am a 31 year-old male. I live in Southern California. I have been a practicing attorney for almost two years. I got married to the woman of my dreams about nine months ago. We plan to have children in two to three years.
The short question: Whether I should abandon my career as an attorney to pursue what I now realize is my dream of becoming a police detective?
How I arrived at this crossroads: My undergraduate degree is in psychology. After undergrad, I was interested in going to grad school for psychology or law school. Since I had a decent idea of what the psychology career path would entail, I took two years off to explore the legal career path by working at a law firm. I have never regretted my decision to pursue law over psychology. However, I have always entertained the idea of getting both degrees, but did not do so because I could not find an application for such a dual degree that sounded appealing. Recently, I’ve started to think that a career in law enforcement, specifically as a police detective, is the ideal fit for me. I am reasonably good at practicing law and enjoy the work okay; I know that both of these will get better with time.
Why I want to be a police detective: Just the idea of working as a police detective makes me happy and puts a smile on my face. If all jobs paid the same and came with the same prestige, I would choose to be an officer over a lawyer, psychologist, or anything else. I believe that my personality and natural talents lend themselves most directly to work as an officer: I am in very good physical condition, especially for a 31-year-old lawyer. I have been told that my presence and demeanor alone are intimidating (not because I’m big, I’m only 6’ 185 lbs.) and that even when I feel nervous inside I appear to be completely calm (think: interviewing witnesses and interrogating suspects). I love to study people’s unconscious motivations. I love to manipulate people/situations, mostly in ways that are benign or at least not harmful. By all accounts, I am an excellent driver. Nothing gives me more satisfaction that to help other people, even at the expense of my own interests. Even by lawyer standards, I am very reasonable, rational, and analytical (think: putting together evidence to solve a crime).
The problem, in order of increasing importance: (1) Obviously, I will need to take a pay cut. I would like to give this factor as little weight as possible, since I don’t think that money should enter into such an important equation. (2) From what I understand, I will need to start at the bottom even if I want to be a detective and even if I am a lawyer. (3) I don’t want to get injured or killed. (4) The most important factor is that, by any measure, my wife is hyper fearful/paranoid/anxious/etc. Without going into detail, suffice it to say, she will spend a lot of time worrying if I become an officer/detective (much more than the average spouse). Also, I would feel guilty because she married a lawyer, and her parents married her to a lawyer, not an police man.
I don't think you should do it. I'm around police officers and detectives all the time, and while many of them seem to enjoy their jobs, I get the feeling that for someone of your education and intellect, you'd probably find it boring as hell after a few years. I don't think it's as glamorous as you seem to think. That's not even considering that you would have to put in those several years as a patrol officer to even be considered for detective work. Adding your wife's concerns to the equation, and it seems like a no-brainer to stick with the practice of law.
I see your proposed step-down as somewhat equivalent to a physician saying, "I think I really want to be a paramedic!" Nothing wrong with it if the only concern is what you want to do right now, but I can see tons of reasons not to do it.
And all of these factors you set forth would seem to equip you to be an attorney, as much as a detective:
I have been told that my presence and demeanor alone are intimidating (not because I’m big, I’m only 6’ 185 lbs.) and that even when I feel nervous inside I appear to be completely calm (think: interviewing witnesses and interrogating suspects). I love to study people’s unconscious motivations. I love to manipulate people/situations, mostly in ways that are benign or at least not harmful. By all accounts, I am an excellent driver. Nothing gives me more satisfaction that to help other people, even at the expense of my own interests. Even by lawyer standards, I am very reasonable, rational, and analytical (think: putting together evidence to solve a crime).
posted by jayder at 11:21 AM on January 23, 2007
I see your proposed step-down as somewhat equivalent to a physician saying, "I think I really want to be a paramedic!" Nothing wrong with it if the only concern is what you want to do right now, but I can see tons of reasons not to do it.
And all of these factors you set forth would seem to equip you to be an attorney, as much as a detective:
I have been told that my presence and demeanor alone are intimidating (not because I’m big, I’m only 6’ 185 lbs.) and that even when I feel nervous inside I appear to be completely calm (think: interviewing witnesses and interrogating suspects). I love to study people’s unconscious motivations. I love to manipulate people/situations, mostly in ways that are benign or at least not harmful. By all accounts, I am an excellent driver. Nothing gives me more satisfaction that to help other people, even at the expense of my own interests. Even by lawyer standards, I am very reasonable, rational, and analytical (think: putting together evidence to solve a crime).
posted by jayder at 11:21 AM on January 23, 2007
(1) Obviously, I will need to take a pay cut. I would like to give this factor as little weight as possible, since I don’t think that money should enter into such an important equation.
Yes it should, if you're going to have a kid. Not saying it should be decisive, but your wife and (potential) kid will be bearing the brunt of it, so you should give it a fair amount of weight.
(2) From what I understand, I will need to start at the bottom even if I want to be a detective and even if I am a lawyer.
Not a problem if it doesn't bother you.
(3) I don’t want to get injured or killed.
Yeah, you might want to think about that. You'd be joining a high-risk profession; you don't want to be like one of those guys who joins the army and then gets bent out of shape because they find themselves in a firefight.
(4) The most important factor is that, by any measure, my wife is hyper fearful/paranoid/anxious/etc. ... she will spend a lot of time worrying if I become an officer/detective (much more than the average spouse). Also, I would feel guilty because she married a lawyer, and her parents married her to a lawyer, not an police man.
This should be the deal-breaker. Your decision, obviously, but if my wife reacted like that (and she would), I would never dream of putting myself in a position where she'd lie awake every night worrying about me. It would be one thing if when you were wooing her you'd said "By the way, my fondest dream is to become a police detective" and she'd come to terms with that; she might not like it, but she would have signed on for it. As it is, you're talking about pulling the ultimate bait-and-switch. Also, you need to think about what you'd be doing to both her and the kid(s) if you have them and then buy the farm while they're still young.
When you're 21 and single, you can follow your wildest dreams, and nobody can say you nay. When you're 31 and married (and seriously talking about having kids), your life is no longer your own to dispose of as you will. I don't care how much fun you think being a detective would be (and bear in mind to that actually being one would certainly turn out to be far different, and probably not nearly so much fun, as you imagine), you should make your peace with the life you've got or go in a less fraught direction.
posted by languagehat at 11:23 AM on January 23, 2007
Yes it should, if you're going to have a kid. Not saying it should be decisive, but your wife and (potential) kid will be bearing the brunt of it, so you should give it a fair amount of weight.
(2) From what I understand, I will need to start at the bottom even if I want to be a detective and even if I am a lawyer.
Not a problem if it doesn't bother you.
(3) I don’t want to get injured or killed.
Yeah, you might want to think about that. You'd be joining a high-risk profession; you don't want to be like one of those guys who joins the army and then gets bent out of shape because they find themselves in a firefight.
(4) The most important factor is that, by any measure, my wife is hyper fearful/paranoid/anxious/etc. ... she will spend a lot of time worrying if I become an officer/detective (much more than the average spouse). Also, I would feel guilty because she married a lawyer, and her parents married her to a lawyer, not an police man.
This should be the deal-breaker. Your decision, obviously, but if my wife reacted like that (and she would), I would never dream of putting myself in a position where she'd lie awake every night worrying about me. It would be one thing if when you were wooing her you'd said "By the way, my fondest dream is to become a police detective" and she'd come to terms with that; she might not like it, but she would have signed on for it. As it is, you're talking about pulling the ultimate bait-and-switch. Also, you need to think about what you'd be doing to both her and the kid(s) if you have them and then buy the farm while they're still young.
When you're 21 and single, you can follow your wildest dreams, and nobody can say you nay. When you're 31 and married (and seriously talking about having kids), your life is no longer your own to dispose of as you will. I don't care how much fun you think being a detective would be (and bear in mind to that actually being one would certainly turn out to be far different, and probably not nearly so much fun, as you imagine), you should make your peace with the life you've got or go in a less fraught direction.
posted by languagehat at 11:23 AM on January 23, 2007
Yeah, what others noticed struck me as well: you don't seem to know very much about what being a detective actually entails. Seems like you're in love with the idea of it, but don't seem to be very connected with the practical aspects.
Maybe you could go halfway by switching from your firm to the DA's office? Law & Order leads me to believe that they interact with detectives a lot... but seriously, you'd at least be working "on their side" and might get enough contact to really learn what the job is about and see if you really want to make the jump. And if you don't, then you'll get oodles of litigation experience as a prosecutor, which will keep your seat warm in case you decide to return to private practice instead.
posted by rkent at 11:28 AM on January 23, 2007
Maybe you could go halfway by switching from your firm to the DA's office? Law & Order leads me to believe that they interact with detectives a lot... but seriously, you'd at least be working "on their side" and might get enough contact to really learn what the job is about and see if you really want to make the jump. And if you don't, then you'll get oodles of litigation experience as a prosecutor, which will keep your seat warm in case you decide to return to private practice instead.
posted by rkent at 11:28 AM on January 23, 2007
(1) yes, money should not factor in, but will it? are you currently leaving within the means of the average police officer? do you own a house, and will a policeman's salary pay the mortgage, or will you have to move somewhere smaller, or somewhere else. In a perfect world, money shouldn't matter, but this isn't a perfect world.
(2) right. could be a long time until you make detective. might not be just a matter of, "he's a lawyer, he must be detective material!" you certainly are a go-getter in life if you've become a lawyer since it takes a lot of school and hard work, but remember there is no guarantee you make detective as quickly as possible, or even at all.
(3) yep, good thing you're thinking about that. most lawyers have little chance of getting injured or killed compared to a police officer.
(4) if she doesn't agree to this idea, you maybe shouldn't do it. like you said, she didn't marry a police officer.
and
(5) you could always try it out, and go back to law if it doesn't work out
posted by poppo at 11:30 AM on January 23, 2007
(2) right. could be a long time until you make detective. might not be just a matter of, "he's a lawyer, he must be detective material!" you certainly are a go-getter in life if you've become a lawyer since it takes a lot of school and hard work, but remember there is no guarantee you make detective as quickly as possible, or even at all.
(3) yep, good thing you're thinking about that. most lawyers have little chance of getting injured or killed compared to a police officer.
(4) if she doesn't agree to this idea, you maybe shouldn't do it. like you said, she didn't marry a police officer.
and
(5) you could always try it out, and go back to law if it doesn't work out
posted by poppo at 11:30 AM on January 23, 2007
I know an undercover narcotics agent in Philly. He introduced himself to me after reading an article I published and helped me with a different article I was working on recently. His job is completely fascinating but sooooooo fucking dangerous. I mean, he really divides his time almost in half between being a recognizable as a police officer and being what you wouldn't be able to differentiate from your average street thug or junkie. It's hard to describe...he's so close to the edge on most days I really wonder how on earth he comes home and turns back into Normal Guy. He is exceedingly normal, though, off the job and seems to have things totally compartmentalized. He says things like, "I need to go buy a couple guns of this dude later tonight" completely off handedly. At the same time, he says you never stop getting nervous going into those situations where you're the only cop in the room and everyone else needs to believe you're not one so you don't get killed. I mean...it's just mind boggling for me to think of doing that 40 hours a week. I guess a certain type of dude thrives on that.
I'm not sure if that helps at all...maybe you shouldn't let your wife see this thread.
posted by The Straightener at 11:36 AM on January 23, 2007
I'm not sure if that helps at all...maybe you shouldn't let your wife see this thread.
posted by The Straightener at 11:36 AM on January 23, 2007
I too wanted to be a police detective for a while. I got to various points in the hiring process before I decided it wasn't right for me...
My personal reasons for the decision to no longer pursue it.
1) I overheard one of the hiring officers dismissing me as "too smart."
2) As work, it seems to harden people.
3) There's years of doing non-detective work before being considered for the position, and in many places, getting to the detective level is based more on politics than merit.
4) I don't like inflicting violence on anyone.
For your situation, detectiving might be right for you, but considering your age, you only have four years left to try out for most agencies and many of have them have frustratingly slow hiring processes. Then in most cases you'll have several years before you can go for detective (though maybe being a lawyer would help?).
I would think that there is something you could do with the law degree that would fulfill the things you find appealing about detective work with a job that will be more compatible with your ideal life.
posted by drezdn at 11:42 AM on January 23, 2007
My personal reasons for the decision to no longer pursue it.
1) I overheard one of the hiring officers dismissing me as "too smart."
2) As work, it seems to harden people.
3) There's years of doing non-detective work before being considered for the position, and in many places, getting to the detective level is based more on politics than merit.
4) I don't like inflicting violence on anyone.
For your situation, detectiving might be right for you, but considering your age, you only have four years left to try out for most agencies and many of have them have frustratingly slow hiring processes. Then in most cases you'll have several years before you can go for detective (though maybe being a lawyer would help?).
I would think that there is something you could do with the law degree that would fulfill the things you find appealing about detective work with a job that will be more compatible with your ideal life.
posted by drezdn at 11:42 AM on January 23, 2007
Have you considered a career a little more suited to your current qualifications, such as an FBI Special Agent with a Law Degree? You get to carry a gun and fight crime, use more of your skills, and get more money.
posted by onalark at 11:44 AM on January 23, 2007
posted by onalark at 11:44 AM on January 23, 2007
I know what it's like to dream of doing something and then discover some barrier to doing it so I certainly sympathize with your situation but I agree with most of the posters here that your wife's phobias, your plans for a family and the financial hardships of changing careers should be enough to say "maybe not such a good idea."
Let me add this, my maternal grandfather was a cop. The only rule of dating my mother ever gave me outside of the obvious (make sure he has good manners) was "Never, ever date a police officer."
My mother believes to this day that police work turned her father, an otherwise kind man, into a sullen, sometimes abusive man. She attributes this to several things (it was the '50s and he was a black cop on an otherwise all-white force, etc.) but she also believes he saw the worst of society every day for several hours a day. He seldom dealt with good folks. Fast forward several years later and my cousin marries a cop. He's a miserable guy. No, I'm not saying there aren't cops who are thrilled to be helping society and who find some healthy way to relieve their stresses, but it is a tough job, one that tests you daily.
I broke my mom's rule just once and dated a Chicago cop (who really was a nice guy.) But there were times when he'd come home from a shift barely able to talk about some of the things he'd seen that day. You should think about whether you want to put the woman of your dreams through that.
Best of lucking resolving this.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 11:47 AM on January 23, 2007
Let me add this, my maternal grandfather was a cop. The only rule of dating my mother ever gave me outside of the obvious (make sure he has good manners) was "Never, ever date a police officer."
My mother believes to this day that police work turned her father, an otherwise kind man, into a sullen, sometimes abusive man. She attributes this to several things (it was the '50s and he was a black cop on an otherwise all-white force, etc.) but she also believes he saw the worst of society every day for several hours a day. He seldom dealt with good folks. Fast forward several years later and my cousin marries a cop. He's a miserable guy. No, I'm not saying there aren't cops who are thrilled to be helping society and who find some healthy way to relieve their stresses, but it is a tough job, one that tests you daily.
I broke my mom's rule just once and dated a Chicago cop (who really was a nice guy.) But there were times when he'd come home from a shift barely able to talk about some of the things he'd seen that day. You should think about whether you want to put the woman of your dreams through that.
Best of lucking resolving this.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 11:47 AM on January 23, 2007
I agree that you should look into a job with a local district attorney's office. At least in New York, assistant DAs who work in homicide bureaus, etc., actually go to crime scenes and have substantial interaction with detectives. Might be the best of both worlds.
posted by suasponte at 11:53 AM on January 23, 2007
posted by suasponte at 11:53 AM on January 23, 2007
(1) Obviously, I will need to take a pay cut. I would like to give this factor as little weight as possible, since I don’t think that money should enter into such an important equation.
Of course it should. You're not just asking yourself to do without stuff and make do with fewer resources, you're asking your wife and future kids to make do with less. They count too. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, but IMHO you need to take into account that this job change that you think will make you happy will come at a price to your whole family, so you'd better be so completely over the top happy about it that it makes you so much a better husband and father that they think it's worth it too.
(2) From what I understand, I will need to start at the bottom even if I want to be a detective and even if I am a lawyer.
More than that, you're talking about moving from a very, very white-collar world to a deeply blue-collar world. If you're not from a blue-collar, working-class family where most people don't have college degrees (or at least don't have liberal-arts degrees in stuff like psychology), you might find it very hard to relate to your other low-level officers and your immediate superiors for a long while, and this could possibly affect your chances for promotion.
(3) I don’t want to get injured or killed. (4) The most important factor is that, by any measure, my wife is hyper fearful/paranoid/anxious/etc.
Then don't do it, unless getting a divorce is okay with you.
I'd second the idea of talking with detectives about it, particularly with the idea of "Tell me all the shitty things about your job and path it took to get you there -- convince me to not be a cop."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:55 AM on January 23, 2007
Of course it should. You're not just asking yourself to do without stuff and make do with fewer resources, you're asking your wife and future kids to make do with less. They count too. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, but IMHO you need to take into account that this job change that you think will make you happy will come at a price to your whole family, so you'd better be so completely over the top happy about it that it makes you so much a better husband and father that they think it's worth it too.
(2) From what I understand, I will need to start at the bottom even if I want to be a detective and even if I am a lawyer.
More than that, you're talking about moving from a very, very white-collar world to a deeply blue-collar world. If you're not from a blue-collar, working-class family where most people don't have college degrees (or at least don't have liberal-arts degrees in stuff like psychology), you might find it very hard to relate to your other low-level officers and your immediate superiors for a long while, and this could possibly affect your chances for promotion.
(3) I don’t want to get injured or killed. (4) The most important factor is that, by any measure, my wife is hyper fearful/paranoid/anxious/etc.
Then don't do it, unless getting a divorce is okay with you.
I'd second the idea of talking with detectives about it, particularly with the idea of "Tell me all the shitty things about your job and path it took to get you there -- convince me to not be a cop."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:55 AM on January 23, 2007
In case you haven't already, you might want to read David Simon's "Homicide" and Edward Conlon's "Blue Blood," the only caveat for the Conlon book, is that sometimes he's too pro-police.
posted by drezdn at 11:56 AM on January 23, 2007
posted by drezdn at 11:56 AM on January 23, 2007
If you haven't, read Edward Conlon's Blue Blood; he's a Harvard-educated guy who became a NYC cop. He had exciting experiences, but I was struck by how much politicking he (and his fellow officers) endured.
Most police departments offer civilians the chance to go on ride-alongs with patrol officers. Call you local station house and find out how to do that.
posted by rtha at 12:00 PM on January 23, 2007
Most police departments offer civilians the chance to go on ride-alongs with patrol officers. Call you local station house and find out how to do that.
posted by rtha at 12:00 PM on January 23, 2007
I think that starting at the bottom would be the biggest issue. Remember that you're going to have to take orders from guys younger than you, dumber than you, and who know less about the law than you do. You will be instructed to make arrests that you do not agree with. You will be told to do, or cover up, actions that you may have an ethical problem with. You will have to tell indignant but innocent people to shut up, get out of the way, and show you their papers. And you have to wear a horrid uniform that screams your low social status and the fact that you have a gun. Ugh...it all just gives me a chill to even observe from a distance. If it's for you, then it's for you, but be sure.
posted by bingo at 12:20 PM on January 23, 2007
posted by bingo at 12:20 PM on January 23, 2007
Read your question again to yourself.
Points #3 and #4 pretty much eliminate becoming a police officer. Stick to being a lawyer.
posted by madman at 12:40 PM on January 23, 2007
Points #3 and #4 pretty much eliminate becoming a police officer. Stick to being a lawyer.
posted by madman at 12:40 PM on January 23, 2007
I don't think you should do it either. Others have been far more eloquent than I have about most of the major reasons. I also think that you'd have tremendous difficulty adjusting from your theoretical, philosophically-grounded understanding of the law to the reality of police work.
Even if you didn't, many of your co-workers would assume that you did; those who were petty, vindictive, jealous, or felt threatened by your career advancement would take great pleasure in hazing you, checking you at every turn, and hindering your career advancement. They could conceivably even turn against you, using your law degree - which is really not relevant or necessary to do police work - to make common cause against you.
posted by ikkyu2 at 12:59 PM on January 23, 2007
Even if you didn't, many of your co-workers would assume that you did; those who were petty, vindictive, jealous, or felt threatened by your career advancement would take great pleasure in hazing you, checking you at every turn, and hindering your career advancement. They could conceivably even turn against you, using your law degree - which is really not relevant or necessary to do police work - to make common cause against you.
posted by ikkyu2 at 12:59 PM on January 23, 2007
I think others have pretty much covered the points I would make, but just to add another voice to the chorus:
--meet with some guys who do this already and talk to them about what they REALLY do all day.
--consider something more your level in terms of intellectual stimulation but still doing the kind of thing that attracts you to detective work (FBI lawyer, public defender or prosecutor, etc - I have a friend who is a probation officer and she really loves helping people, getting them back on track with their lives, that sort of thing. It allows her to work with all sorts of fascinating people but it's not as dangerous as being out on the street as a cop.)
--YES, pay is a factor if you're thinking about kids. Does your wife work? What does she do? How much does it pay and how much job security does she have?
I see some people answernig as if this is an either or situation. It's not. There are plenty of in between options.
posted by marginaliana at 1:08 PM on January 23, 2007
--meet with some guys who do this already and talk to them about what they REALLY do all day.
--consider something more your level in terms of intellectual stimulation but still doing the kind of thing that attracts you to detective work (FBI lawyer, public defender or prosecutor, etc - I have a friend who is a probation officer and she really loves helping people, getting them back on track with their lives, that sort of thing. It allows her to work with all sorts of fascinating people but it's not as dangerous as being out on the street as a cop.)
--YES, pay is a factor if you're thinking about kids. Does your wife work? What does she do? How much does it pay and how much job security does she have?
I see some people answernig as if this is an either or situation. It's not. There are plenty of in between options.
posted by marginaliana at 1:08 PM on January 23, 2007
What onalark and marginaliana said. Working for the FBI or as a state or federal prosecutor might provide you with what you're looking for. Or for one of the Innocence Projects or Death Penalty projects that are out there. If I'm not mistaken, that involves a lot of investigative type of work.
I'm a worrier and I think it would make me physically ill if my husband were a police officer.
posted by BluGnu at 1:44 PM on January 23, 2007
I'm a worrier and I think it would make me physically ill if my husband were a police officer.
posted by BluGnu at 1:44 PM on January 23, 2007
Meta, I have been a cop for about 10 years and a Detective for about 2 in a department of about 2000. If you or your wife wanted to email me with any questions I can tell you what it is like for me in this particular department.
I wouldn't avise that anyone take a job that their partner was against but maybe more information would make her more open to the idea.
posted by InkaLomax at 1:44 PM on January 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't avise that anyone take a job that their partner was against but maybe more information would make her more open to the idea.
posted by InkaLomax at 1:44 PM on January 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
What everybody else said, but I'm not sure if anyone mentioned the possibility of being an investigator with a prosecuting attorney or da's office. They go out and do their own investigations sometimes, or at least re-interview witnesses and such.
posted by printchick at 1:47 PM on January 23, 2007
posted by printchick at 1:47 PM on January 23, 2007
Points #3 and #4 pretty much eliminate becoming a police officer.
Well put.
You might also want to consider how much street smarts you have. I'm assuming you can handle yourself well in school and the courtroom, but how well would you do out in the "real" world?
The A&E program The First 48 does a good job of portraying how unglamorous detective work can be - long hours, slow pace, strained family relationships, etc.
posted by puritycontrol at 2:25 PM on January 23, 2007
Last I heard the FBI actually seeks out people with law degrees to be agents. I'm also under the impression that, on average, the typical FBI agent is exposed to less danger than a typical street cop (where you'd probably start out) in a mid to large size city.
posted by Carbolic at 2:28 PM on January 23, 2007
posted by Carbolic at 2:28 PM on January 23, 2007
IANAD, but I'll add based on some personal experience that, yes, the anxiety your wife will experience stands a good chance of doing harm to your marriage--and if you commit yourself to it and find that you must leave that kind of work because of your wife, you can add your lifelong resentment to that equation.
Also, from people who work in this kind of position, my understanding is that in practice, you might find that the rule of law as respected in a court of law is a different thing entirely on the street. That some here tell of people being considered too smart for doing this kind of work might point to the suggestion that a police officer or detective must have the capacity to suspend his or her notions of fair play, cooperation, common goal, respect for law, or respect for person--and indeed, such person, for the sake of sanity, might require the capacity to become the type of person would never want to be. The workplace politics alone can break someone.
Of course, this is not to denigrate the noble people who do this kind of work, because I know I couldn't touch it. I've considered it before, for some of the same reasons you offer. But I think, if it's a goal you're heartbroken to set down, at the least spend time with those in the field and get close to the day-to-day.
posted by troybob at 2:32 PM on January 23, 2007
Also, from people who work in this kind of position, my understanding is that in practice, you might find that the rule of law as respected in a court of law is a different thing entirely on the street. That some here tell of people being considered too smart for doing this kind of work might point to the suggestion that a police officer or detective must have the capacity to suspend his or her notions of fair play, cooperation, common goal, respect for law, or respect for person--and indeed, such person, for the sake of sanity, might require the capacity to become the type of person would never want to be. The workplace politics alone can break someone.
Of course, this is not to denigrate the noble people who do this kind of work, because I know I couldn't touch it. I've considered it before, for some of the same reasons you offer. But I think, if it's a goal you're heartbroken to set down, at the least spend time with those in the field and get close to the day-to-day.
posted by troybob at 2:32 PM on January 23, 2007
Response by poster: Thank you all for the great comments, advice, etc. I have been visiting Metafilter for years, and this is my first contribution - if you could call it that. All the comments seem to flush out what I knew all along, that being a detective is more of a child-like, quixotic dream than anything that I could realistically do right now or that I would even really want to do right now. As languagehat said, my factor #4 should be, and is, a deal-breaker. As for the suggestions to try the FBI: unfortunately, this is not an option because of my penchant for marijuana and the FBI’s strict policies in this regard. Anyway, thank you all again, and I will try to calling upon your counsel sparingly in the future.
posted by metawabbit at 2:36 PM on January 23, 2007
posted by metawabbit at 2:36 PM on January 23, 2007
Here's my two cents:
After the academy you will probably spend at least a couple of years working in a jail before patrol is even an option. These years will callus your soul.
Cops are among the most cynical people you'll ever meet. They just seem to have a jaded outlook on life.
Alcoholism is endemic for cops because it aids in "decompressing" after work.
On preview: never mind
posted by spork at 2:43 PM on January 23, 2007
After the academy you will probably spend at least a couple of years working in a jail before patrol is even an option. These years will callus your soul.
Cops are among the most cynical people you'll ever meet. They just seem to have a jaded outlook on life.
Alcoholism is endemic for cops because it aids in "decompressing" after work.
On preview: never mind
posted by spork at 2:43 PM on January 23, 2007
unfortunately, this is not an option because of my penchant for marijuana and the FBI’s strict policies in this regard.
The cops are less strict than the FBI about this, but certainly strict enough to make it a problem. It depends on the department, but you would most likely have to pass drug tests. Not to mention the fact that your supervisors would expect you, repeatedly, to ruin people's lives over this very issue!
I mean, an American pot smoker? Wanting to be a cop? Why on Earth would you give your life to a system that wants you on the other side of the bars? If you're considering getting into the enforcement/prosecution side of American "justice", then I think you really need to think long and hard about your marijuana use, and whether or not you are willing to become part of a system that does not condone it.
posted by vorfeed at 3:32 PM on January 23, 2007
The cops are less strict than the FBI about this, but certainly strict enough to make it a problem. It depends on the department, but you would most likely have to pass drug tests. Not to mention the fact that your supervisors would expect you, repeatedly, to ruin people's lives over this very issue!
I mean, an American pot smoker? Wanting to be a cop? Why on Earth would you give your life to a system that wants you on the other side of the bars? If you're considering getting into the enforcement/prosecution side of American "justice", then I think you really need to think long and hard about your marijuana use, and whether or not you are willing to become part of a system that does not condone it.
posted by vorfeed at 3:32 PM on January 23, 2007
I've worked with a few detectives when I was in the Homicide Investigation Unit at the NYCDA's office back in the early 90s. We got to work directly with the police, but never had any of the drawbacks like "getting shot" or "getting knifed," yet we got all the benefits like "putting away bad guys" and "playing around in the evidence locker."
So I would recommend that route.
Also, you know, you don't just apply for Detective. That's kind of like saying, "I want to be an astronaut," in that it skips a lot of important, necessary steps. First you have to be an excellent cop. Then you have to get extremely lucky and get a few big collars. Then you have to kiss a lot of ass. And you have to be very well liked. Then you can be a detective.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:32 PM on January 23, 2007
So I would recommend that route.
Also, you know, you don't just apply for Detective. That's kind of like saying, "I want to be an astronaut," in that it skips a lot of important, necessary steps. First you have to be an excellent cop. Then you have to get extremely lucky and get a few big collars. Then you have to kiss a lot of ass. And you have to be very well liked. Then you can be a detective.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:32 PM on January 23, 2007
I know you've replied, and others have said some great things, but I haven't seen anyone else bring something up that I think is important - as a lawyer, I'm guessing you're working long day shifts, maybe some evening and weekends with paperwork. As a cop, you can expect a varied pattern of nights, evenings, days and weekends. This can do more harm to your marriage than your wife's fears, and the worry will be worse when she hardly sees you for a week when your schedules clash. How well does she sleep without you there? What about with a baby? I hope you find a resolution to this that makes you happy in the long run, and I can certainly understand the itch, but as someone who works a crazy-ass schedule, I wanted to raise another aspect of it.
posted by crabintheocean at 6:35 PM on January 23, 2007
posted by crabintheocean at 6:35 PM on January 23, 2007
I don’t want to get injured or killed.
I'm sure that actual cops and detectives do not really do that in order to get killed, so I guess it's OK -- they don't want to get hurt/die either.
you sound like a smart, decent man: I say go for it. your city needs more smart, decent cops.
posted by matteo at 6:45 PM on January 23, 2007
I'm sure that actual cops and detectives do not really do that in order to get killed, so I guess it's OK -- they don't want to get hurt/die either.
you sound like a smart, decent man: I say go for it. your city needs more smart, decent cops.
posted by matteo at 6:45 PM on January 23, 2007
I second (or third? fourth?) the suggestion you go towards criminal prosecution law--you didn't mention what your legal specialty is, but from high crime to low, prosecutors participate in all the aspects of investigation in which you show interest. It might take some re-certification or extra classes at law school, and you'd still probably take a pay cut, but i think the cocktail of personal fulfillment:skill set will work for you.
posted by markovitch at 8:09 AM on January 24, 2007
posted by markovitch at 8:09 AM on January 24, 2007
Response by poster: This may sound contradictory to my stated interest in law enforcement, but I’m fairly certain that I don’t want to work in criminal law, whether prosecution or defense. Part of the appeal of law enforcement to me is the hands on, physical nature of the work. Also, I may well be wrong, but I’ve always assumed that the moral or philosophical issues that are likely to arise in law enforcement are generally less thorny than those in criminal law. I’ve stayed away from criminal law because I am generally uncomfortable with the idea taking part in the judgment of other people’s actions, especially when the judgment implicates complicated moral issues. This is probably naïve, but I assumed that it would be different in law enforcement because I would often witness the subject action, the determination of right and wrong would be simpler, and I would not be directly responsible for the nature or extent of the punishment. Actually, as I write this explanation, I’m beginning to realize that I’m full of shit. I’m sure that most everything, especially legal work, involves all sorts of judgments of varying degree and type. I guess that I can’t articulate the reasons, but I’m just not comfortable with criminal law on visceral level.
To answer an earlier question: I’m currently practicing in civil litigation, mostly insurance defense and some plaintiff work. So far, I don’t really care for the highly adversarial nature of litigation. Maybe it’s just my limited experience, but I don’t like the idea of having to yell at opposing counsel or being less than honest in order to properly advocate for my client. In observing other attorneys at my firm, I still haven’t figured out what motivates most litigators to be so angry and unreasonable in their work. I’m not sure if they’re just angry and unreasonable on the inside (which would be sad) or whether they are just able to act this way when necessary. In any case, I need to look for an different job.
posted by metawabbit at 10:27 AM on January 24, 2007
To answer an earlier question: I’m currently practicing in civil litigation, mostly insurance defense and some plaintiff work. So far, I don’t really care for the highly adversarial nature of litigation. Maybe it’s just my limited experience, but I don’t like the idea of having to yell at opposing counsel or being less than honest in order to properly advocate for my client. In observing other attorneys at my firm, I still haven’t figured out what motivates most litigators to be so angry and unreasonable in their work. I’m not sure if they’re just angry and unreasonable on the inside (which would be sad) or whether they are just able to act this way when necessary. In any case, I need to look for an different job.
posted by metawabbit at 10:27 AM on January 24, 2007
I have been a practicing attorney for almost two years.
Have you paid off your law school debt yet? How far away from paying it off are you? You might consider holding off until you've crossed that off the list, especially if changing jobs would bring a pay cut.
posted by Alt F4 at 12:35 PM on January 24, 2007
Have you paid off your law school debt yet? How far away from paying it off are you? You might consider holding off until you've crossed that off the list, especially if changing jobs would bring a pay cut.
posted by Alt F4 at 12:35 PM on January 24, 2007
Something else that occurs to me: a lot of physicians are good, noble people who think about volunteering as EMT's or paramedics. Some of them actually do so. But from time to time one of these docs gets sued. Occasionally a court will find that the doc-practicing-as-EMT should be held to a higher standard of care than an EMT would - that Good Samaritan laws don't apply, because of the doc's extra professional qualification.
I don't know if there'd be an analogous situation a cop with a JD could get into, but I'd certainly want to know before I signed up for it. I'd especially want to know if issues like these were going to cause a change in the sort of work I was assigned compared to my colleagues.
posted by ikkyu2 at 3:05 PM on January 24, 2007
I don't know if there'd be an analogous situation a cop with a JD could get into, but I'd certainly want to know before I signed up for it. I'd especially want to know if issues like these were going to cause a change in the sort of work I was assigned compared to my colleagues.
posted by ikkyu2 at 3:05 PM on January 24, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Work your lawyer network to hook you up with a prosecutor who can introduce you to a couple of detectives. Get in touch with them and tell them you are contemplating a career change, and that you'd like to buy them lunch somewhere nice (like a good steak place, maybe) to get their take into the whole career path.
posted by Good Brain at 11:17 AM on January 23, 2007 [2 favorites]