Options for self-medicating -- not the kind in a bottle
January 4, 2007 3:00 PM Subscribe
What's the situation currently like in the US for ordering drugs over the Internet without a prescription?
My wife and I are peak-oil aware and have made some efforts to obtain a small stock of medical necessities. Needless to say, our shelves are empty for painkillers and a few non-OTC medical staples. While I do have concerns about having a contingency supply, my confidence in the medical system is eroded because I'm hearing analgesics are harder to get and that people with legitimate needs are getting the runaround from doctors. A couple of years ago my wife was unable to get even a basic hydrocodone syrup for a dry cough she had. So now I want to plan for not only socioeconomic contingencies, but contingencies for poor medical treatment too.
So what I'm wondering is whether it's easy to get this stuff over the Internet. Has anyone here done it lately? Are the risks of ordering small quantities mainly just in having them seized? Am I pretty safe from fraud as long as I do my homework on the website and not order from spam links? Awhile back I Googled a few hydrocodone sources, but they must have been US-based sites as they wanted a prescription.
We're actually close to Mexico, so there's that option too; maybe a pharmacist there would be sympathetic with what we want to do. However, I wouldn't want to spend time doing that if it's just going to be illegal once we re-enter the US.
I can assure you all that I'm not seeking... the only thing I seem to be addicted to is tacos and the Internet. Not only is it beside the point anyway, but I'm not asking for sources either. I'd just like to know what the situation is like and what my options are. We'll mull it over and try to figure out where to go from there.
My wife and I are peak-oil aware and have made some efforts to obtain a small stock of medical necessities. Needless to say, our shelves are empty for painkillers and a few non-OTC medical staples. While I do have concerns about having a contingency supply, my confidence in the medical system is eroded because I'm hearing analgesics are harder to get and that people with legitimate needs are getting the runaround from doctors. A couple of years ago my wife was unable to get even a basic hydrocodone syrup for a dry cough she had. So now I want to plan for not only socioeconomic contingencies, but contingencies for poor medical treatment too.
So what I'm wondering is whether it's easy to get this stuff over the Internet. Has anyone here done it lately? Are the risks of ordering small quantities mainly just in having them seized? Am I pretty safe from fraud as long as I do my homework on the website and not order from spam links? Awhile back I Googled a few hydrocodone sources, but they must have been US-based sites as they wanted a prescription.
We're actually close to Mexico, so there's that option too; maybe a pharmacist there would be sympathetic with what we want to do. However, I wouldn't want to spend time doing that if it's just going to be illegal once we re-enter the US.
I can assure you all that I'm not seeking... the only thing I seem to be addicted to is tacos and the Internet. Not only is it beside the point anyway, but I'm not asking for sources either. I'd just like to know what the situation is like and what my options are. We'll mull it over and try to figure out where to go from there.
Many drugs can be bought over the internet without a prescription. BUT... you will pay a lot more for them. I think that way that these internet pharmacies work is to get a little (and I mean little) medical history from you and then have a doctor OK it. Google 'drugs no prescription'. Is it wise? Safe? I don't know.
posted by toucano at 3:32 PM on January 4, 2007
posted by toucano at 3:32 PM on January 4, 2007
I think there's a good chance that you'll get something that's labeled as being the drug you ordered, but which won't actually be. Counterfeit drugs (which look exactly the same but don't contain any active ingredient) are a big problem, especially in less-policed countries like Mexico.
Let's be clear that what you want to do is against the law. The question you're asking is whether you can break the law without getting caught or prosecuted. That's not what AskMe is supposed to be for.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 3:52 PM on January 4, 2007
Let's be clear that what you want to do is against the law. The question you're asking is whether you can break the law without getting caught or prosecuted. That's not what AskMe is supposed to be for.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 3:52 PM on January 4, 2007
Do you live near a US border? Canada and Mexico both make more painkillers available over the counter than the US does.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 3:56 PM on January 4, 2007
posted by croutonsupafreak at 3:56 PM on January 4, 2007
Counterfeit drugs (which look exactly the same but don't contain any active ingredient) are a big problem, especially in less-policed countries like Mexico.
Are there any meaningful cites for this? I haven't looked into it too deeply, but what I've seen suggests a problem with FUD and PR, rather than with drugs.
My impression when I was trying to sort it out was that "counterfeit" normally refers to a brandname sticker put on the correct drug, but without the permission of and payment to the trademark or patent owner, not an incorrect or ineffective drug. Even then, these "counterfeit" drugs still seemed to be a bogeyman that was a bit thin on the ground when it came to actual real world examples.
Even the worst case trumpted by the FDA as imminent-deaths-unless-everyone-panic seemed to, once you got to the fine print, boil down to "our patient did actually get genuine drugs, but if patient was sufficiently moronic and didn't check the label, they might have take the wrong dose, as their doctor might have been proscribing them a non-standard dose", or similar crap. )Of course, plenty of people dependant on medication are quite capable of failing to check the dose, so it's a legitimate concern, but the hyperbole accompanying the finding was so far beyond the pale I wonder if domestic industry PR or lobbying was involved).
posted by -harlequin- at 4:47 PM on January 4, 2007
Are there any meaningful cites for this? I haven't looked into it too deeply, but what I've seen suggests a problem with FUD and PR, rather than with drugs.
My impression when I was trying to sort it out was that "counterfeit" normally refers to a brandname sticker put on the correct drug, but without the permission of and payment to the trademark or patent owner, not an incorrect or ineffective drug. Even then, these "counterfeit" drugs still seemed to be a bogeyman that was a bit thin on the ground when it came to actual real world examples.
Even the worst case trumpted by the FDA as imminent-deaths-unless-everyone-panic seemed to, once you got to the fine print, boil down to "our patient did actually get genuine drugs, but if patient was sufficiently moronic and didn't check the label, they might have take the wrong dose, as their doctor might have been proscribing them a non-standard dose", or similar crap. )Of course, plenty of people dependant on medication are quite capable of failing to check the dose, so it's a legitimate concern, but the hyperbole accompanying the finding was so far beyond the pale I wonder if domestic industry PR or lobbying was involved).
posted by -harlequin- at 4:47 PM on January 4, 2007
I have been taking health care management classes, and in a discussion about online drug ordering, the person lecturing (who's name I have forgotten but he's an expert in this new field) mentioned that the government is now keeping track of the credit card used in online drug ordering. It might come back to haunt you someday.
Also, these drugs are controlled substances because others will use them inappropriately, and a doctor can't know that you are not going to get addicted. They try to be as sparing as possible when it comes to serious drugs like these, avoiding them if possible. Plus, your condition could be one that does not merit an rx for a narcotic analgesic, but you wouldn't be giving a doctor a chance to say so, and to make sure you have no interactions. Also, you mention that your wife could not get hydrocodone for a dry cough, but unless that cough is extremely painful, they avoid narcotic analgesics for coughs because of a high risk of respiratory depression.
posted by nursegracer at 5:17 PM on January 4, 2007
Also, these drugs are controlled substances because others will use them inappropriately, and a doctor can't know that you are not going to get addicted. They try to be as sparing as possible when it comes to serious drugs like these, avoiding them if possible. Plus, your condition could be one that does not merit an rx for a narcotic analgesic, but you wouldn't be giving a doctor a chance to say so, and to make sure you have no interactions. Also, you mention that your wife could not get hydrocodone for a dry cough, but unless that cough is extremely painful, they avoid narcotic analgesics for coughs because of a high risk of respiratory depression.
posted by nursegracer at 5:17 PM on January 4, 2007
I know someone that ordered Cialis from such Internet pharmacies and he received it without any problems, although he said they didn't work. I don't know if that means he is not receptive to Cialis or they were counterfeit.
posted by Falconetti at 5:24 PM on January 4, 2007
posted by Falconetti at 5:24 PM on January 4, 2007
The above raise more good points against doing this. The risk of getting something that's not what you ordered is there. Then there is the risk that if it's NOT what you ordered it could cause you harm either directly or through an unanticipated interaction. Is risking this worth it, especially only to have something sitting on a self unused because you're worried you couldn't get it IF you needed it? Self medicating is a bad idea, not that you don't have every right...but have you given this real serious thought? You could kill yourself. You could end up in jail.
In any case, the very basis of this question is asking for help in doing something illegal and should probably be removed.
posted by crypticgeek at 5:52 PM on January 4, 2007
In any case, the very basis of this question is asking for help in doing something illegal and should probably be removed.
posted by crypticgeek at 5:52 PM on January 4, 2007
When crossing the Texas/Mexico border, you can usually bring a 90-day supply of drugs across - legally.
I wouldn't buy online. The Houston Press did an investigative story about this last summer and it didn't look promising at all.
posted by Houstonian at 5:59 PM on January 4, 2007
I wouldn't buy online. The Houston Press did an investigative story about this last summer and it didn't look promising at all.
posted by Houstonian at 5:59 PM on January 4, 2007
Depending on the type of painkillers you're after, a completely legal trip to the doctors "OOOh...I put my back out and it's KILLING me" will have them prescribe a variety of pain-killers for you.
Alternatively, try fronting up to the quack with the full story and see what happens. The worst that will happen is that they will say "no".
Then, by all means, investigate the shadow-pharm stuff.
posted by ninazer0 at 6:56 PM on January 4, 2007
Alternatively, try fronting up to the quack with the full story and see what happens. The worst that will happen is that they will say "no".
Then, by all means, investigate the shadow-pharm stuff.
posted by ninazer0 at 6:56 PM on January 4, 2007
Possession of hydrocodone and other prescription painkillers that have not been legally prescribed to you is against the law. You must have a valid prescription from an American doctor to legally import for personal use drugs that require a prescription in the U.S. from Mexico, Canada, or any other country, regardless of the status of those drugs under the law of the country in which you purchased them. That means that unless you have a prescription from an American doctor for hydrocodone, you may not legally purchase it abroad and import it into the U.S., nor may you legally possess it in the U.S. (The link above that Houstonian provided notes that notes that both federal and Texas law require prescriptions for Mexican drugs.)
Personally, I think this law is assinine, but the DEA disagrees, and there are people in state and federal prisons across the country for illegal possession of prescription narcotics. There are also doctors in prison for prescribing such drugs to people whom the DEA or police later decided shouldn't have them, which is part of the reason that the drugs are less available to people with legitimate medical needs, much less to people like you.
posted by decathecting at 7:01 PM on January 4, 2007
Personally, I think this law is assinine, but the DEA disagrees, and there are people in state and federal prisons across the country for illegal possession of prescription narcotics. There are also doctors in prison for prescribing such drugs to people whom the DEA or police later decided shouldn't have them, which is part of the reason that the drugs are less available to people with legitimate medical needs, much less to people like you.
posted by decathecting at 7:01 PM on January 4, 2007
Response by poster: Well, crap, apparently this isn't as good of an idea as I thought. I guess the smart thing to do is just conserve any painkillers that I get legally in the future. I appreciate the info.
In any case, the very basis of this question is asking for help in doing something illegal and should probably be removed.
I'll address that point by saying that the guidelines don't have anything against my question. Aside from that I think the discussion here was quite rational and constructive.
posted by hodyoaten at 7:42 PM on January 4, 2007
In any case, the very basis of this question is asking for help in doing something illegal and should probably be removed.
I'll address that point by saying that the guidelines don't have anything against my question. Aside from that I think the discussion here was quite rational and constructive.
posted by hodyoaten at 7:42 PM on January 4, 2007
Be careful if you order any prescription drugs from Canada (even if it's over-the-counter in Canada). There was a recent story in the NY Times about the US government intercepting some prescriptions from Canada without notifying the buyer.
posted by HotPatatta at 7:46 PM on January 4, 2007
posted by HotPatatta at 7:46 PM on January 4, 2007
Regarding counterfeit drugs, the FDA says:
The extent of the problem of counterfeit drugs is unknown. Counterfeiting is difficult to detect, investigate, and quantify. So, it is hard to know or even estimate the true extent of the problem. What is known is that they occur worldwide and are more prevalent in developing countries. It is estimated that upwards of 10% of drugs worldwide are counterfeit, and in some countries more than 50% of the drug supply is made up of counterfeit drugs.posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 8:33 PM on January 4, 2007
Equipped.com often lists in its wilderness supplies that one should have some antibiotics and some painkillers. I believe they mention that if you tell the doctor you're going on a deep wilderness camp-out and would like the drugs, just-in-case, some doctors will write you a prescription. I suspect this would work better for the antibiotics than the painkillers, though.
posted by IndigoRain at 12:07 AM on January 5, 2007
posted by IndigoRain at 12:07 AM on January 5, 2007
odinsdream: then how is the usa government trying to stop online gambling? I thought it was also because "government is now keeping track of the credit card used"
posted by Iax at 1:26 AM on January 5, 2007
posted by Iax at 1:26 AM on January 5, 2007
Another option would be to find a shady doctor who will write you a prescription just because you pay\ask him to. I don't have any experience with this, but maybe your skeevy friends would know (you do have some skeevy friends, right?)
posted by !Jim at 2:55 AM on January 5, 2007
posted by !Jim at 2:55 AM on January 5, 2007
Up here in Maine they used to have a program (and I believe are starting again) that bussed senior citizens up to Canada to buy huge bulk quantities of prescription medication because it was far cheaper than the domestic equivalents. The drug companies ran a really nasty advertising campaign that suggested the drugs were inferior to the (pricier) US versions, and that these folks were being misled by counterfeiters and other nefarious elements. Eventually they got the state to stop the bus program, (though like I said, I think it's starting up again). Frontline even did a special on it.
Suffice to say, the domestic drug companies want you to believe that any medication you buy outside the US is probably useless and potentially dangerous, and that only good 'ol Americun drug companies have the skill and wherewithal to produce these really complicated medicines. It's a crock of shit. A load of malarchy. A pile of dung. Just like it's fine to buy your local supermarket's equivalents to common over-the-counter drugs, once the recipe is known there's really no difference from the expensive name-brands.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:24 AM on January 5, 2007
Suffice to say, the domestic drug companies want you to believe that any medication you buy outside the US is probably useless and potentially dangerous, and that only good 'ol Americun drug companies have the skill and wherewithal to produce these really complicated medicines. It's a crock of shit. A load of malarchy. A pile of dung. Just like it's fine to buy your local supermarket's equivalents to common over-the-counter drugs, once the recipe is known there's really no difference from the expensive name-brands.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:24 AM on January 5, 2007
It is extraordinarily unlikely that "the government is keeping track of the the credit card used" in this or any other legally-grey transaction, unless they have an overt relationship with each and every foreign peddler-of-semi-legal drugs, or are screening every bank statement for transactions that look suspicious. The former is by definition extraordinarily unlikely ("Hi FBI, we're a small business operating outside your jurisdiction, in violation of your laws, but here's our fiscal records anyway!"), and the latter would be a logistical nightmare even if the seizure of financial records was legal (it isn't).
It's certainly possible (and I'd say probable) that the DEA has an eye on these transactions, but they're not doing it through your credit card.
posted by Mayor West at 5:46 AM on January 5, 2007
It's certainly possible (and I'd say probable) that the DEA has an eye on these transactions, but they're not doing it through your credit card.
posted by Mayor West at 5:46 AM on January 5, 2007
i once received a lengthy lecture from my physician about buying "under the counter" drugs (not because i was, i guess maybe i seem like the type) and he pointed out that even in a best-case scenario you're obtaining meds with no way of knowing how they've been stored or handled, or any guarantee that they're not expired. which may or may not matter to you, but there it is.
posted by sonofslim at 7:16 AM on January 5, 2007
posted by sonofslim at 7:16 AM on January 5, 2007
Something else to consider: According to this AskMe post, it's possible that your phone number will be sold to every shady overseas telemarketer there is.
posted by veronica sawyer at 9:46 AM on January 5, 2007
posted by veronica sawyer at 9:46 AM on January 5, 2007
Iax, the government is not attempting to stop online gambling by monitoring individuals' credit card usage or keeping track of credit card use. Instead, the law makes it illegal for U.S.-based credit card companies and financial institutions to process payments to settle internet bets. It's not illegal for you to play poker at an online casino; it's illegal for Visa or your bank to send a payment for you to an online casino. There is no reason to believe based on this law or any others like it, that the government is engaged in indiscriminate monitoring of individuals' credit card transactions.
posted by decathecting at 10:50 AM on January 5, 2007
posted by decathecting at 10:50 AM on January 5, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
I'm reminded actually of a news story I read a while back. This man was receiving a lot of pain killers due to his painful medical conditions. He was arrested after a pharmacist was suspicious that he was getting ALOT of this stuff and thought he was selling it (he wasn't). It's not clear if he forged the prescriptions or if the doctor just doesn't want to admit to prescribing so much (even though he needed it). It's a shame the pharmacist's first reaction was to call the cops instead of the doctor. I know some pharmacist friends who certainly would have talked privately to the doctor about moving to something else to better manage the pain instead of MORE. Anyway, my point is...they'll lock away decrepit and sick people...just for trying to cope with their conditions. So be careful about how you go about this.
posted by crypticgeek at 3:14 PM on January 4, 2007