Dodging a nice person
December 16, 2006 7:36 AM Subscribe
I need help non-hurtfully brushing off someone who wants to be friends with me.
A nice guy who shared a once-weekly arts volunteer shift with me would like to be my friend. I don't want to add any more friends to my roster at this time. I have way too many commitments: I am married; I live near my family and my husband's family and see them regularly; I live near my high school friends and see them once monthly; I work full-time; I have two volunteer positions; I have side-goals in the arts that I pursue at every opportunity; I have a large group of post-college friends to see movies and go to galleries and bars with; I take one class every semester... AND I live an hour's commute (each way) from all of these things. I have to be kind of ruthless about what I take on.
I've tried explaining this to him, and he's just not getting it. He emails periodically inviting me to do things that aren't on any particular day (e.g. going to a museum sometime), and I have always answered that I am too busy in general.
(Once, a year ago, a group of us volunteers went out to a museum after our shift ended, and back in April we all went to a birthday party for one of the volunteers, but those have been the only times I have been out socially with this fellow. He also attended a gallery opening where I was showing my artwork.)
The last time he emailed, I tried to be more direct, saying that I am a very busy person and that it means I'm not able to be a good friend, but that my goals are important to me and life is short, so that is the way it must be. He responded by saying that he doesn't mind that I am busy, and that he'd still like to be my friend, and did I have any time before the holidays?
What to do? Due to changes in my schedule, we no longer share a volunteer shift, but I do run into him sometimes at the organization.
A nice guy who shared a once-weekly arts volunteer shift with me would like to be my friend. I don't want to add any more friends to my roster at this time. I have way too many commitments: I am married; I live near my family and my husband's family and see them regularly; I live near my high school friends and see them once monthly; I work full-time; I have two volunteer positions; I have side-goals in the arts that I pursue at every opportunity; I have a large group of post-college friends to see movies and go to galleries and bars with; I take one class every semester... AND I live an hour's commute (each way) from all of these things. I have to be kind of ruthless about what I take on.
I've tried explaining this to him, and he's just not getting it. He emails periodically inviting me to do things that aren't on any particular day (e.g. going to a museum sometime), and I have always answered that I am too busy in general.
(Once, a year ago, a group of us volunteers went out to a museum after our shift ended, and back in April we all went to a birthday party for one of the volunteers, but those have been the only times I have been out socially with this fellow. He also attended a gallery opening where I was showing my artwork.)
The last time he emailed, I tried to be more direct, saying that I am a very busy person and that it means I'm not able to be a good friend, but that my goals are important to me and life is short, so that is the way it must be. He responded by saying that he doesn't mind that I am busy, and that he'd still like to be my friend, and did I have any time before the holidays?
What to do? Due to changes in my schedule, we no longer share a volunteer shift, but I do run into him sometimes at the organization.
Yes, either stop answering or just keep declining his invitiations until he stops asking.
posted by orange swan at 7:51 AM on December 16, 2006
posted by orange swan at 7:51 AM on December 16, 2006
Jesus, this guy sounds like a nut job. Yeah, stop answering, but if he corners you, just tell him you're not going to be able to spend any time with him, ever.
(Am I the only one here who thinks that a man's aggressive pursuit of a married woman as a "friend," when she has indicated she's not interested, is really weird and inappropriate? It would be just as inappropriate if it was a woman's aggressive pursuit of friendship with a married man.)
posted by jayder at 7:57 AM on December 16, 2006
(Am I the only one here who thinks that a man's aggressive pursuit of a married woman as a "friend," when she has indicated she's not interested, is really weird and inappropriate? It would be just as inappropriate if it was a woman's aggressive pursuit of friendship with a married man.)
posted by jayder at 7:57 AM on December 16, 2006
(Nope, you're not the only one. That makes it extra weird, in my book.)
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:00 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:00 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
Be minimally cordial when you do run into him, and yes, stop answering his invitations. If he asks you why, tell him that you've been too busy to answer (let alone attend) and remind him that you told him you would be.
If he still doesn't get it and keeps pushing the "want to be your friend" angle, then bluntly tell him you can't be his friend. Refuse to discuss it further.
As an aside, what is it with people who think they are entitled to friendship with someone merely by wanting it? I've had this happen to me and it seems like some people just don't get that friendship is a two-way street.
posted by AV at 8:05 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
If he still doesn't get it and keeps pushing the "want to be your friend" angle, then bluntly tell him you can't be his friend. Refuse to discuss it further.
As an aside, what is it with people who think they are entitled to friendship with someone merely by wanting it? I've had this happen to me and it seems like some people just don't get that friendship is a two-way street.
posted by AV at 8:05 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
And yea, it sounds like you've done everything right, so far. You've been pretty clear. Now I would just stop answering his e-mails.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:05 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:05 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
There is a small chance you are not being as direct as you think you're being in which case it's totally within your rights to say "I don't have time before the holidays and I don't have time generally for socializing with an additional person in my life." Don't use any "I'm sorry but" language or any "Perhaps another time" language, and go from there. My guess is you've probably been doing this already in which case it is okay to do any of the following.
- stop replying
- play the husband card and indicate that you think it's inappropriate for him to continue trying to make inroads with you when you're married, busy and politely expressing continuous disinterest
- ask him to please stop contacting you
He sounds as if he's someone in therapy or a self-improvement program whose therapist has told him that he must be social during the holiday season or something similar. I've definitely had people in my life in the past who were clearly following some sort of script that they themselves seemed to not entirely understand in order to try to make friends and socialize. If they're not that clueful socially, saying things like "Oh I'm busy" just winds up getting the next response on the script "Oh well how about when you're not busy?" which seems like what you're getting, response-wise.
The main point is, none of the things you are doing, or your life committments matter, this is not someone you want to pursue a friendship with, correct? So, while it's good that you seem to have a handle on all the things you do and why they matter and fill up your life, they're irrelevant here and you should leave them out of the equation when you move to the next, more blunt, step of how to work this out for yourself where you say something like "I don't want to socialize with you outside of work" No excuses or explantions, no "thanks for your attention" just flat, non-insulting and then move on.
While usually I think it's a good idea to be polite, sometimes politeness and trying to let people down easy can obscure your message when you are dealing with someone who is not picking up on it.
posted by jessamyn at 8:14 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
- stop replying
- play the husband card and indicate that you think it's inappropriate for him to continue trying to make inroads with you when you're married, busy and politely expressing continuous disinterest
- ask him to please stop contacting you
He sounds as if he's someone in therapy or a self-improvement program whose therapist has told him that he must be social during the holiday season or something similar. I've definitely had people in my life in the past who were clearly following some sort of script that they themselves seemed to not entirely understand in order to try to make friends and socialize. If they're not that clueful socially, saying things like "Oh I'm busy" just winds up getting the next response on the script "Oh well how about when you're not busy?" which seems like what you're getting, response-wise.
The main point is, none of the things you are doing, or your life committments matter, this is not someone you want to pursue a friendship with, correct? So, while it's good that you seem to have a handle on all the things you do and why they matter and fill up your life, they're irrelevant here and you should leave them out of the equation when you move to the next, more blunt, step of how to work this out for yourself where you say something like "I don't want to socialize with you outside of work" No excuses or explantions, no "thanks for your attention" just flat, non-insulting and then move on.
While usually I think it's a good idea to be polite, sometimes politeness and trying to let people down easy can obscure your message when you are dealing with someone who is not picking up on it.
posted by jessamyn at 8:14 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
As an aside, what is it with people who think they are entitled to friendship with someone merely by wanting it? I've had this happen to me and it seems like some people just don't get that friendship is a two-way street.
There are some people so immature and egotistical, that they just can't believe that another person doesn't want to be friends with them.
posted by jayder at 8:15 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
There are some people so immature and egotistical, that they just can't believe that another person doesn't want to be friends with them.
posted by jayder at 8:15 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
I would stay away from telling him you're 'too busy.' It sounds like in his mind he thinks that as soon as you're not busy, you'll want to hang out with him. Just refuse his invite with no explanations.
posted by sexymofo at 8:42 AM on December 16, 2006
posted by sexymofo at 8:42 AM on December 16, 2006
It doesn't sound like you've been direct at all with this guy. You can't reasonably expect someone to hear "never contact me ever again" when you tell them "I'm busy".
The real problem here is that "I'm busy" is not a valid reason to exclude someone completely from your life. If you genuinely just don't want to be friends with him, then tell him that. If it is simply that you're too busy as you tell us, then just say hi when you see him and sidestep the invitations in his emails. But you can't have it both ways.
posted by cillit bang at 8:43 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
The real problem here is that "I'm busy" is not a valid reason to exclude someone completely from your life. If you genuinely just don't want to be friends with him, then tell him that. If it is simply that you're too busy as you tell us, then just say hi when you see him and sidestep the invitations in his emails. But you can't have it both ways.
posted by cillit bang at 8:43 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
Wow, such vehemence! The poster described the guy as nice, and at no point said they were creeped out, or wouldn't want the guy as a friend if they had more time. She describes him as emailing periodically, not all the time.
Your responses to him have all indicated that you don't have time for a new friend at all, not that you specifically don't want him for a friend. So, every so often (perhaps after a volunteer stint, or something that reminded him of you) he thinks "Gee, I should email Anon to see if she wants to get together. She's nice, and maybe she's less busy now." He's almost certainly not as busy as you describe yourself to be, and so can't wrap his head around the fact that a person might not have a few hours, even in a busy schedule, to do something that he knows they like to do (like a museum visit).
My advice still boils down to what everyone else said - don't respond to the emails at all. Set up a filter to delete them automatically, so you don't have to think about it. Unless there's more to this than you've indicated (frequency, tone, icky vibe), I'm not sure why having to occasionally brush this guy off is such a big deal. If he wants to make plans when you run into each other in person, continue to brush him off, except don't feel guilty about it.
posted by booksherpa at 8:49 AM on December 16, 2006
Your responses to him have all indicated that you don't have time for a new friend at all, not that you specifically don't want him for a friend. So, every so often (perhaps after a volunteer stint, or something that reminded him of you) he thinks "Gee, I should email Anon to see if she wants to get together. She's nice, and maybe she's less busy now." He's almost certainly not as busy as you describe yourself to be, and so can't wrap his head around the fact that a person might not have a few hours, even in a busy schedule, to do something that he knows they like to do (like a museum visit).
My advice still boils down to what everyone else said - don't respond to the emails at all. Set up a filter to delete them automatically, so you don't have to think about it. Unless there's more to this than you've indicated (frequency, tone, icky vibe), I'm not sure why having to occasionally brush this guy off is such a big deal. If he wants to make plans when you run into each other in person, continue to brush him off, except don't feel guilty about it.
posted by booksherpa at 8:49 AM on December 16, 2006
i am with jayder and jessamyn on this one. on one hand it's quite inappropriate for this guy to keep bothering you after you've declined so many times, but on the other hand some people are socially inept and the message sometimes doesn't get through (could be a defense against rejection, rationalizing that it's not THEM who are undesirable as friends but YOU who is really busy etc.) in any case, i think that if despite the obligations and life you have, you really liked this guy as a person, you probably would make place for a friendship but apparently you don't want to be friends with him, and that's ok, you don't have to explain it or justify it in any way, it is your right to chose who you want to be friends with. it is often the case that when we're rejecting someone we feel guilty - i think you shouldn't let guilt get to you and you shouldn't let this guy manipulate you into feeling guilty (b/c this is what's happening right now) - after the nth polite refusal you have the right to say "listen, i don't want to be friends with you. stop contacting me. period."
posted by barrakuda at 8:59 AM on December 16, 2006
posted by barrakuda at 8:59 AM on December 16, 2006
"A nice guy who shared a once-weekly arts volunteer shift... He emails periodically... "
He sounds like someone who is just being friendly, and can't identify with your busy schedule. Unfortunately, just about everyone in this thread has Frist'ed him into a therapy-inspired stalker.
If they're correct, then I guess listen to what they have to say. On the chance that they're not...
Just tell him you're not comfortable doing anything outside of a group setting because you're married. There are still people in this jaded world who are just 'nice'. Maybe he's just one of those people.
posted by matty at 9:28 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
He sounds like someone who is just being friendly, and can't identify with your busy schedule. Unfortunately, just about everyone in this thread has Frist'ed him into a therapy-inspired stalker.
If they're correct, then I guess listen to what they have to say. On the chance that they're not...
Just tell him you're not comfortable doing anything outside of a group setting because you're married. There are still people in this jaded world who are just 'nice'. Maybe he's just one of those people.
posted by matty at 9:28 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
Are you sure he understands? If you put it to him the way you put it to us: "I don't want to add any more friends to my roster at this time." He may well think that if he keeps checking you may eventually want to add him to your roster of friends. Be kind but blunt. This is a permanent situation, you will never have room to fit him in.
I really like booksherpa's idea about the mail filter. If you stop responding, he will eventually stop emailing you.
I also find everyone's vehemence a little odd. He emails occasionally. He's of the opposite sex and she's married. So what? Does everyone really believe that the only reason someone can be interested in a member of the opposite sex is romantic or sexual? Busy people are often the ones that are the most interesting because they are keeping their minds active instead of watching repeats of Law & Order 7 nights a week.
I assume Anon would recognize someone hitting on her. Since she didn't mention anything remotely like that, I will continue to assume that it is merely a case of her being an interesting woman, and he wanting to befriend interesting people because they are fascinating.
posted by Meep! Eek! at 9:52 AM on December 16, 2006
I really like booksherpa's idea about the mail filter. If you stop responding, he will eventually stop emailing you.
I also find everyone's vehemence a little odd. He emails occasionally. He's of the opposite sex and she's married. So what? Does everyone really believe that the only reason someone can be interested in a member of the opposite sex is romantic or sexual? Busy people are often the ones that are the most interesting because they are keeping their minds active instead of watching repeats of Law & Order 7 nights a week.
I assume Anon would recognize someone hitting on her. Since she didn't mention anything remotely like that, I will continue to assume that it is merely a case of her being an interesting woman, and he wanting to befriend interesting people because they are fascinating.
posted by Meep! Eek! at 9:52 AM on December 16, 2006
Feel free to delete if this is too chatfilter-y, but I disagree that this guy is just being "nice." Part of being nice means not making people unduly uncomfortable (indeed, that's just common courtesy), but this guy is doing just that by ignoring what Anon is saying.
If I am reading the original post correctly, Anon told this person "I am a very busy person and that means I'm not able to be a good friend. However, my goals are important to me and life is short, so that is the way it must be;" and this after declining every invitation he's given her. It's hard to be more direct than that given the context up to that point, and yet this person is still pursuing her. He is, in effect, supplanting her (very reasonable and clearly stated) priorities with his desire to have her as a friend. That isn't 'just nice.'
(Or at least that's my take on it...)
posted by AV at 10:09 AM on December 16, 2006
If I am reading the original post correctly, Anon told this person "I am a very busy person and that means I'm not able to be a good friend. However, my goals are important to me and life is short, so that is the way it must be;" and this after declining every invitation he's given her. It's hard to be more direct than that given the context up to that point, and yet this person is still pursuing her. He is, in effect, supplanting her (very reasonable and clearly stated) priorities with his desire to have her as a friend. That isn't 'just nice.'
(Or at least that's my take on it...)
posted by AV at 10:09 AM on December 16, 2006
AV writes "He is, in effect, supplanting her (very reasonable and clearly stated) priorities with his desire to have her as a friend. That isn't "just nice."
"(Or at least that's my take on it...)"
Great point. I was just about to say something like this. Often people use "niceness" as a weapon to try to pressure and manipulate others into doing what the "nice" person wants. Adults (people who respect others) do not persist in trying to wiggle into other people's lives when the person has made it clear, in a way any adult would understand, that they don't want the "nice" person in their life. And to persist in this way isn't "nice." It is creepy and bordering on predatory.
Another thing that bugs me about the situation is the possible sexism of the guy's behavior. Would a guy really be so pushy about being another guy's friend? I don't think so. Some guys, even purportedly "nice" ones, seem to view women as being open to all kinds of pushiness, browbeating, and manipulation in the pursuit of a friendship, and that's sexist.
posted by jayder at 10:14 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
"(Or at least that's my take on it...)"
Great point. I was just about to say something like this. Often people use "niceness" as a weapon to try to pressure and manipulate others into doing what the "nice" person wants. Adults (people who respect others) do not persist in trying to wiggle into other people's lives when the person has made it clear, in a way any adult would understand, that they don't want the "nice" person in their life. And to persist in this way isn't "nice." It is creepy and bordering on predatory.
Another thing that bugs me about the situation is the possible sexism of the guy's behavior. Would a guy really be so pushy about being another guy's friend? I don't think so. Some guys, even purportedly "nice" ones, seem to view women as being open to all kinds of pushiness, browbeating, and manipulation in the pursuit of a friendship, and that's sexist.
posted by jayder at 10:14 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
I think this guy 1) genuinely likes you, and 2) thinks you're kind of a rock star, what with the gallery show and all. He definitely sounds like he has a crush on you. He's a groupie. Your being married doesn't faze him for whatever reason. Celebrities deal with this kind of thing all the time.
He's your fan, so be courteous when you see him, but don't give him an opening. He doesn't sound like stalker to me. He's amusing and fun--let it make you feel special. Enjoy it, or forget about it--don't let it add to your stress.
posted by frosty_hut at 10:22 AM on December 16, 2006
He's your fan, so be courteous when you see him, but don't give him an opening. He doesn't sound like stalker to me. He's amusing and fun--let it make you feel special. Enjoy it, or forget about it--don't let it add to your stress.
posted by frosty_hut at 10:22 AM on December 16, 2006
Man, this thread makes me sad. I'm assuming the situation is no more than the poster said -- she doesn't think he is sexually interested, and she might have him for a friend if he lived nearby, or she didn't have this Holly Golightly problem. So what does it cost to be nice? What does it cost to let this guy walk around thinking you're his friend, just too busy to see him much? You can't have too many well-wishers, can you?
And as far as the ZOMG married woman! thing -- I used to have primarily male friends. But as I got older, say when I was 28 or so, suddenly I couldn't make new male friends -- because they're married, and I'm now a predator to want to hang out with a married man, or the guy has or doesn't have romantic interest in me, and that defines me to him. All the time I meet couples where I really hit it off with the husband, and have little in common with the wife -- but if she and I don't become pals, I know I won't be seeing him. I hate that. It sucks. Grow up you guys.
posted by Methylviolet at 11:03 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
And as far as the ZOMG married woman! thing -- I used to have primarily male friends. But as I got older, say when I was 28 or so, suddenly I couldn't make new male friends -- because they're married, and I'm now a predator to want to hang out with a married man, or the guy has or doesn't have romantic interest in me, and that defines me to him. All the time I meet couples where I really hit it off with the husband, and have little in common with the wife -- but if she and I don't become pals, I know I won't be seeing him. I hate that. It sucks. Grow up you guys.
posted by Methylviolet at 11:03 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
What I have learned from the comments in this thread is that if I befriend someone who frequently emphasizes to how busy they are, I should understand that it means I'm undesirable as a friend.
??!!
That's just ridiculous. If she doesn't want to be his friend, she should be direct and say so. If she tells him "I'm very busy" then what he hears is, rightfully, "I'm very busy."
I agree with Methylviolet - this thread makes me sad.
posted by loiseau at 11:46 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
??!!
That's just ridiculous. If she doesn't want to be his friend, she should be direct and say so. If she tells him "I'm very busy" then what he hears is, rightfully, "I'm very busy."
I agree with Methylviolet - this thread makes me sad.
posted by loiseau at 11:46 AM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
What does it cost to let this guy walk around thinking you're his friend, just too busy to see him much?
Why foster delusions?
Just say "No thanks." What you've been saying, "busy" or "at this time" do create openings that any optimist, especially if he's clueless about social reality, will leap to.
"No thanks" gives him lots of room to speculate and make his own conclusions. If he pesters you about interpreting that, he's crossed a line and you can just repeat "No thanks."
That's what I'd prefer if I were him, I think, as I've certainly experienced wanting to be friends with someone whose life was already full.
posted by Listener at 12:01 PM on December 16, 2006
Why foster delusions?
Just say "No thanks." What you've been saying, "busy" or "at this time" do create openings that any optimist, especially if he's clueless about social reality, will leap to.
"No thanks" gives him lots of room to speculate and make his own conclusions. If he pesters you about interpreting that, he's crossed a line and you can just repeat "No thanks."
That's what I'd prefer if I were him, I think, as I've certainly experienced wanting to be friends with someone whose life was already full.
posted by Listener at 12:01 PM on December 16, 2006
It sounds to me as if this guy has miscategorized himself in your life; you think of him as your acquaintance or co-volunteer, while he thinks of himself as (or wants to promote himself to the status of) your friend.
You, on the other hand, don't want him as a friend, i.e., don't want to make the time to fit him into your very full life. Nothing wrong with that; we all make these choices all the time, consciously or not. It sounds as if you've already spelled this out pretty clearly, and if it were me, I wouldn't try to be clearer to the point of brutality, as I think it would be hurtful to him and no more productive than a subtler approach.
Rather, I would try to re-establish the borders of our relationship. Invited to a one-on-one meeting, I would respond honestly that I'm busy, but (if it's true) say that I had fun at the most recent group meeting. In your case, this would be the after-work museum visit and the April birthday party. I'd then ask him to let me know next time there's a group event in the offing. This gently redefines the context of our interactions; to wit, we aren't good friends, but cordial colleagues and acquaintances.
Spelled out, I see that this sounds kind of high-handed, but I promise you that it can be a good-natured way to acknowledge the value of a not-very-close relationship. I've done this with former colleagues and classmates (and been on the receiving end from a professor with whom I had socialized occasionally), and it seems always to be taken well.
This is all assuming you don't get a stalker vibe from him. If you do, please disregard my advice.
posted by Elsa at 12:35 PM on December 16, 2006
You, on the other hand, don't want him as a friend, i.e., don't want to make the time to fit him into your very full life. Nothing wrong with that; we all make these choices all the time, consciously or not. It sounds as if you've already spelled this out pretty clearly, and if it were me, I wouldn't try to be clearer to the point of brutality, as I think it would be hurtful to him and no more productive than a subtler approach.
Rather, I would try to re-establish the borders of our relationship. Invited to a one-on-one meeting, I would respond honestly that I'm busy, but (if it's true) say that I had fun at the most recent group meeting. In your case, this would be the after-work museum visit and the April birthday party. I'd then ask him to let me know next time there's a group event in the offing. This gently redefines the context of our interactions; to wit, we aren't good friends, but cordial colleagues and acquaintances.
Spelled out, I see that this sounds kind of high-handed, but I promise you that it can be a good-natured way to acknowledge the value of a not-very-close relationship. I've done this with former colleagues and classmates (and been on the receiving end from a professor with whom I had socialized occasionally), and it seems always to be taken well.
This is all assuming you don't get a stalker vibe from him. If you do, please disregard my advice.
posted by Elsa at 12:35 PM on December 16, 2006
anonymous: It sounds like you haven't actually asked him to stop inviting you to things; rather, you assumed he'd get the hint when you explained how busy you were. Some people just need things explained clearly -- don't assume he's stupid or weird, just inexperienced socially in this particular skill: interpreting hints. It may seem obvious to you, but it wouldn't have been obvious to me at one time.
Just explain that it even takes time to respond to his e-mail messages, and that keeping N friends in your head is almost too many right now, so, while you think he's a nice person, you just don't have room for him, and regrettably even have to ask that he not e-mail you socially -- even that little bit is too much since your life is packed to bursting.
You could also consider somehow setting him up with some of your other friends, maybe by having one of them (not you) invite him on a group outing with or without you ("Anon says you're a nice guy, would you like to join us on our movie night?"). But only if you are sure that he is really a nice guy and would be fun for them, or that they can gracefully pass him along if it doesn't work out.
posted by amtho at 12:39 PM on December 16, 2006
Just explain that it even takes time to respond to his e-mail messages, and that keeping N friends in your head is almost too many right now, so, while you think he's a nice person, you just don't have room for him, and regrettably even have to ask that he not e-mail you socially -- even that little bit is too much since your life is packed to bursting.
You could also consider somehow setting him up with some of your other friends, maybe by having one of them (not you) invite him on a group outing with or without you ("Anon says you're a nice guy, would you like to join us on our movie night?"). But only if you are sure that he is really a nice guy and would be fun for them, or that they can gracefully pass him along if it doesn't work out.
posted by amtho at 12:39 PM on December 16, 2006
Man, this thread makes me sad .... All the time I meet couples where I really hit it off with the husband, and have little in common with the wife -- but if she and I don't become pals, I know I won't be seeing him. I hate that. It sucks. Grow up you guys.
It never occurred to me (as a guy) that married women were available as friends, when I am not friends with her husband as well. My circle of friends is a pretty enlightened, educated, even liberal bunch, but even among this group, it would be regarded as very strange for me to expect to hang out with a wife of another man, as her "friend." You're telling us to grow up, but I believe you're naive, methylviolet --- the prevailing attitude, even among enlightened people, is that guys don't really make friends with married women, in the sense of "going out and doing things with them, such as visiting museums, when the husband is not involved, too." And there are probably good reasons why this is not widely accepted.
What I have learned from the comments in this thread is that if I befriend someone who frequently emphasizes to how busy they are, I should understand that it means I'm undesirable as a friend.
It's called taking a hint. It's not too complicated.
posted by jayder at 12:57 PM on December 16, 2006
It never occurred to me (as a guy) that married women were available as friends, when I am not friends with her husband as well. My circle of friends is a pretty enlightened, educated, even liberal bunch, but even among this group, it would be regarded as very strange for me to expect to hang out with a wife of another man, as her "friend." You're telling us to grow up, but I believe you're naive, methylviolet --- the prevailing attitude, even among enlightened people, is that guys don't really make friends with married women, in the sense of "going out and doing things with them, such as visiting museums, when the husband is not involved, too." And there are probably good reasons why this is not widely accepted.
What I have learned from the comments in this thread is that if I befriend someone who frequently emphasizes to how busy they are, I should understand that it means I'm undesirable as a friend.
It's called taking a hint. It's not too complicated.
posted by jayder at 12:57 PM on December 16, 2006
I'm with Methylviolet here. It doesn't sound to me like the guy is anything but nice and friendly. It doesn't sound like he's crossed any barriers, or hopped into the role of creepy stalker maniac.
In anon really doesn't think she has time in her reality to be friends with one more person, then she should tell Friendly Guy that. Dancing around the issue isn't doing anyone any favors.
posted by dejah420 at 12:59 PM on December 16, 2006
In anon really doesn't think she has time in her reality to be friends with one more person, then she should tell Friendly Guy that. Dancing around the issue isn't doing anyone any favors.
posted by dejah420 at 12:59 PM on December 16, 2006
All the time I meet couples where I really hit it off with the husband, and have little in common with the wife -- but if she and I don't become pals, I know I won't be seeing him. I hate that. It sucks. Grow up you guys.
I'm with jayder here- single men don't make friends with married women, and vice versa. Your experience proves that it's not uncommon and it's not just us, Methyviolent.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:16 PM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
I'm with jayder here- single men don't make friends with married women, and vice versa. Your experience proves that it's not uncommon and it's not just us, Methyviolent.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:16 PM on December 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
It's hard to be more direct than that given the context up to that point,
No, it's not, it's easy to be more direct. A lot more direct, because that's what is needed here. Tell him "No thanks, I don't want to spend time with you". Then stop replying.
So far the pussyfooting around and trying to be nice is giving the wrong impression. Some people don't get hints, you have to tell them what you really mean. When you say 'I'm too busy to be a good friend' he just hears that you're his friend (albeit a bad one). When in reality you want to tell him that he's not your friend. You're allowed to feel bad about that, he doesn't sound like a bad guy in anyway, but stop giving excuses and trying to spare his feelings because it's just stringing him along.
You don't get to reject someone and be the good person at the same time. Rejection always hurts at some level. But your reasons are good for doing so, better to reject him cleanly and let him move on than let things continue.
posted by shelleycat at 1:42 PM on December 16, 2006
No, it's not, it's easy to be more direct. A lot more direct, because that's what is needed here. Tell him "No thanks, I don't want to spend time with you". Then stop replying.
So far the pussyfooting around and trying to be nice is giving the wrong impression. Some people don't get hints, you have to tell them what you really mean. When you say 'I'm too busy to be a good friend' he just hears that you're his friend (albeit a bad one). When in reality you want to tell him that he's not your friend. You're allowed to feel bad about that, he doesn't sound like a bad guy in anyway, but stop giving excuses and trying to spare his feelings because it's just stringing him along.
You don't get to reject someone and be the good person at the same time. Rejection always hurts at some level. But your reasons are good for doing so, better to reject him cleanly and let him move on than let things continue.
posted by shelleycat at 1:42 PM on December 16, 2006
If it is important to have people come to the gallery openings, why not just have him as a "coming to my gallery openings" friend? It sounds like he is more interested in being able to call you a friend than really needing to spend much time with you. Basically, his definition of friends may be broader than yours.
Your last email response sounds almost like you are offering friendship, i.e. that it is hard to be a good friend, talking about goals & life is short could be interpreted as friendship is an important goal that is hard to fit in one's schedule.
posted by yohko at 1:46 PM on December 16, 2006
Your last email response sounds almost like you are offering friendship, i.e. that it is hard to be a good friend, talking about goals & life is short could be interpreted as friendship is an important goal that is hard to fit in one's schedule.
posted by yohko at 1:46 PM on December 16, 2006
I'm with jayder here- single men don't make friends with married women, and vice versa.
I had lots of single male friends when I was married. I have married male friends now that I'm single.
posted by scody at 2:24 PM on December 16, 2006
I had lots of single male friends when I was married. I have married male friends now that I'm single.
posted by scody at 2:24 PM on December 16, 2006
I'm with jayder here- single men don't make friends with married women, and vice versa.
That statement manages to pretend that entire swathes of people and relationship types don't exist. Oh, and it's false.
posted by birdie birdington at 2:48 PM on December 16, 2006
That statement manages to pretend that entire swathes of people and relationship types don't exist. Oh, and it's false.
posted by birdie birdington at 2:48 PM on December 16, 2006
What I have learned from the comments in this thread is that if I befriend someone who frequently emphasizes to how busy they are, I should understand that it means I'm undesirable as a friend.You're right: junior high students are quite adept at it.
It's called taking a hint. It's not too complicated.
Sending people coded "hints" and expecting them to slink away silently -- furthermore thinking of them as a nuisance or a social idiot for not doing so -- really isn't what I think of as grown-up social conduct. It's cruel, and just totally unnecessary.
Maybe this guy knows exactly what's going on and just isn't going to let Anonymous get away with being a coward. Just tell him, for god's sake.
posted by loiseau at 3:16 PM on December 16, 2006
This discussion is scarily close to home... I guess you either think this type of platonic friendship is appropriate or you don't. If you know what you think, perhaps you will be more able to be tactful about it. On the other hand if this would-be friend is bumbling around like a bull in a china shop, tact may not help you. Meh.
posted by Coaticass at 3:17 PM on December 16, 2006
posted by Coaticass at 3:17 PM on December 16, 2006
The question of "can single people be friends with a married person of the opposite sex" is a bit of a derail from the question asked by anonymous, but just to clarify --- I'm not saying that such friendships never occur, but just that the aggressive behavior of Anonymous's friendship-suitor transgresses every norm of behavior toward married people of the opposite sex that I am familiar with. Maybe in urban areas like San Francisco and New York, people act differently and don't give a shit whether their wives and husbands form cozy little gallery-going friendships with single people of the opposite sex, but if that's so, I find it weird.
posted by jayder at 4:35 PM on December 16, 2006
posted by jayder at 4:35 PM on December 16, 2006
[I said] that I am a very busy person and that it means I'm not able to be a good friend, but that my goals are important to me and life is short, so that is the way it must be. He responded by saying that he doesn't mind that I am busy, and that he'd still like to be my friend
You know, I can see how that comes across as 'I'm really sorry I keep being unavailable for the stuff you invite me to. I'm a very busy person, that means that even people I am friends with will get ignored sometimes, but I can't help it'. This could reasonably include the guy in the group of 'friends you treat badly because of your busy life'. He has very graciously said that it's ok, he wants to be friends with you even on the basis of very rarely seeing you and is happy to leave it up to you to find a time to do something together.
Personally, I don't think you've been extraordinarily clear at all, mostly because of this last message. As shelleycat said, you can't blow him off and be nice - just tell him straight out that you're never going to find time.
posted by jacalata at 4:44 PM on December 16, 2006
You know, I can see how that comes across as 'I'm really sorry I keep being unavailable for the stuff you invite me to. I'm a very busy person, that means that even people I am friends with will get ignored sometimes, but I can't help it'. This could reasonably include the guy in the group of 'friends you treat badly because of your busy life'. He has very graciously said that it's ok, he wants to be friends with you even on the basis of very rarely seeing you and is happy to leave it up to you to find a time to do something together.
Personally, I don't think you've been extraordinarily clear at all, mostly because of this last message. As shelleycat said, you can't blow him off and be nice - just tell him straight out that you're never going to find time.
posted by jacalata at 4:44 PM on December 16, 2006
For me, friendships arise naturally out of affection, shared sensibility, and some common experience. I've never doled them out on the basis of available time. I have close friends, even local ones, whom I haven't seen for a year or more. So I suspect the real problem isn't that you're so busy. I bet it's either or both of these things:
1) You're uncomfortable because he's a guy.
2) You don't really like him that much.
If the problem is #1, you're lucky; that one's easy. Those categorical claims by jayder and TPS clearly indicate that in some environments and subcultures*, opposite-sex friendships feel inappropriate for married people. If that's your situation, fair enough. You can say so.
Otherwise you have two good options. One is to take booksherpa's advice: ignore his email, brush him off whenever you have to, don't treat it as a big deal. The other -- which is necessary if you want the invitations to stop -- is to be no-excuses direct, almost Jessamyn-style: "Thanks, but I don't want to socialize with you outside of work."
*I sure am glad that's not my subculture, though. Also, what about married gay people? Are they only supposed to have opposite-sex friends?
posted by tangerine at 1:06 AM on December 17, 2006
1) You're uncomfortable because he's a guy.
2) You don't really like him that much.
If the problem is #1, you're lucky; that one's easy. Those categorical claims by jayder and TPS clearly indicate that in some environments and subcultures*, opposite-sex friendships feel inappropriate for married people. If that's your situation, fair enough. You can say so.
Otherwise you have two good options. One is to take booksherpa's advice: ignore his email, brush him off whenever you have to, don't treat it as a big deal. The other -- which is necessary if you want the invitations to stop -- is to be no-excuses direct, almost Jessamyn-style: "Thanks, but I don't want to socialize with you outside of work."
*I sure am glad that's not my subculture, though. Also, what about married gay people? Are they only supposed to have opposite-sex friends?
posted by tangerine at 1:06 AM on December 17, 2006
This question and the resulting conversation is really interesting to me and made me think about how I approach these kind of situations. What dawned on me is that my opinions on what is appropriate vary from my actual behavior. For exmaple, when asked I think it's kind of squicky for people to hang out with people of the opposite sex without being friends with the spouse, but I've done that before and thought nothing of it. I think that's because people and situations are different and making generalizations about what's appropriate kind of ignores that fact. In other words, I think this is a case of overthinking and maybe rationalizing things.
If you're too busy to hang out with a particular person because they aren't important enough to rearrange your schedule then that's ok and either ignore them or keep saying you're too busy. If you actually don't really like the person or want to encourage them then either be blunt or set up the email filter. There's no judgment call on what kind of person you are. If you're uncomfortable with a particular person hanging out your spouse, talk to your spouse about what's making you uncomfortable.
posted by Kimberly at 12:56 PM on December 17, 2006
If you're too busy to hang out with a particular person because they aren't important enough to rearrange your schedule then that's ok and either ignore them or keep saying you're too busy. If you actually don't really like the person or want to encourage them then either be blunt or set up the email filter. There's no judgment call on what kind of person you are. If you're uncomfortable with a particular person hanging out your spouse, talk to your spouse about what's making you uncomfortable.
posted by Kimberly at 12:56 PM on December 17, 2006
I should elaborate on what I said- it's not that I believe married people shouldn't have opposite sex single friends; I just think it's weird for someone to pursue such friendship too strongly. Like Anonymous' friend (well, not friend, but you know what I mean).
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:54 PM on December 17, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:54 PM on December 17, 2006 [1 favorite]
ThePinkSuperhero writes "I should elaborate on what I said- it's not that I believe married people shouldn't have opposite sex single friends; I just think it's weird for someone to pursue such friendship too strongly. Like Anonymous' friend (well, not friend, but you know what I mean)."
What TPS said.
posted by jayder at 2:15 PM on December 17, 2006
What TPS said.
posted by jayder at 2:15 PM on December 17, 2006
I'm with tangerine. Nobody really brushes off people with "I'm too busy to take you on too" unless you really don't want them around. (Ditto the "I'm too busy to be dating right now" excuse.) I'm a very busy person, but if I wanted to see a friend once in a while, I could manage it if I wanted to see them.
I STRONGLY get vibes from this that you don't like to be around the guy, but he hasn't done anything outright that could make you drop the "nice guy" label. The fact that he ignores all subtle hints is something I consider to be a red flag, because those kinds of guys have caused me nothing but trouble. Since you will probably see this guy around in the future, I could understand why you wouldn't want to take the blunt and honest (and kinda mean) route. Might make things awkward at the organization, or if you end up on shift together again.
You could always use the "I can't be friends with a man, I'm married" thing as an excuse to not deal with him, I suppose, though if that isn't what you really believe and this guy figures out some day that you have male friends, it could backfire on you. (I will restrain myself from saying my thoughts on that.)
But really, I think you should just go with the "Oh, I'm sorry, I am 100% booked during the holidays, no free time. Sorry!" response every time he wants to see you. Every time he asks, you are booked to the gills. Period.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:32 PM on December 18, 2006
I STRONGLY get vibes from this that you don't like to be around the guy, but he hasn't done anything outright that could make you drop the "nice guy" label. The fact that he ignores all subtle hints is something I consider to be a red flag, because those kinds of guys have caused me nothing but trouble. Since you will probably see this guy around in the future, I could understand why you wouldn't want to take the blunt and honest (and kinda mean) route. Might make things awkward at the organization, or if you end up on shift together again.
You could always use the "I can't be friends with a man, I'm married" thing as an excuse to not deal with him, I suppose, though if that isn't what you really believe and this guy figures out some day that you have male friends, it could backfire on you. (I will restrain myself from saying my thoughts on that.)
But really, I think you should just go with the "Oh, I'm sorry, I am 100% booked during the holidays, no free time. Sorry!" response every time he wants to see you. Every time he asks, you are booked to the gills. Period.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:32 PM on December 18, 2006
What I have learned from the comments in this thread is that if I befriend someone who frequently emphasizes to how busy they are, I should understand that it means I'm undesirable as a friend.
Then you are not reading the situation accurately and you are lumping in some kind of personal rejection issues of your own. When you attempt to befriend someone who never once takes you up on your overtures to talk/socialize outside of the work/volunteerplace despite a dozen offers and themselves make no counter-offers of alternate times/activities then you should understand that they themselves are not interested in being friends with you. Using the word "empathizes" doesn't accurately portray the poster's situation and hyperbole about "undesirable as a friend" is just childish.
Claims that the poster should be more explicit or blunt and somehow owes it to this person to be more direct than declining each and every invitation are silly. Your ability to press my doorbell doesn't obligate me to come to the door, your ability to make my phone ring doesn't obligate me to answer it and your ability to repeatedly invite me to things doesn't obligate me to explain to you why I'm never going to accept. Rational people recognize that someone who begs off ten times in a row is unlikely to accept on the 11th invite no matter how polite the declining person has been.
That said, anon, you're getting emails from someone inviting you to things you don't want to do, not phone calls or in-person visits. If you're really worried about being courteous then simply answer them - on your own timetable - with a polite "Sorry, I'm not available." The only mixed message you're remotely sending is having a dialog about this. Quit providing extended explanations. If he asks a more open-ended question again you can answer with "I don't anticipate having any free time anytime in the near future."
posted by phearlez at 3:36 PM on December 18, 2006 [1 favorite]
Then you are not reading the situation accurately and you are lumping in some kind of personal rejection issues of your own. When you attempt to befriend someone who never once takes you up on your overtures to talk/socialize outside of the work/volunteerplace despite a dozen offers and themselves make no counter-offers of alternate times/activities then you should understand that they themselves are not interested in being friends with you. Using the word "empathizes" doesn't accurately portray the poster's situation and hyperbole about "undesirable as a friend" is just childish.
Claims that the poster should be more explicit or blunt and somehow owes it to this person to be more direct than declining each and every invitation are silly. Your ability to press my doorbell doesn't obligate me to come to the door, your ability to make my phone ring doesn't obligate me to answer it and your ability to repeatedly invite me to things doesn't obligate me to explain to you why I'm never going to accept. Rational people recognize that someone who begs off ten times in a row is unlikely to accept on the 11th invite no matter how polite the declining person has been.
That said, anon, you're getting emails from someone inviting you to things you don't want to do, not phone calls or in-person visits. If you're really worried about being courteous then simply answer them - on your own timetable - with a polite "Sorry, I'm not available." The only mixed message you're remotely sending is having a dialog about this. Quit providing extended explanations. If he asks a more open-ended question again you can answer with "I don't anticipate having any free time anytime in the near future."
posted by phearlez at 3:36 PM on December 18, 2006 [1 favorite]
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posted by billybunny at 7:42 AM on December 16, 2006