If only I had the time to run...
December 1, 2006 12:30 PM Subscribe
With a large amount of time per day (say capped at 4 or 5 hours), what improvement could you expect to see over 6 months in running 800/1500m, starting with somewhere between a 4:45 & 5 minute mile? What would the workouts look like?
I agree with djb, and I'd go further and suggest that the biggest danger is not that you won't make your goal, but that you'll overtrain yourself right into injury. This can happen pretty easily, especially where big miles and speed workouts are concerned, so unless you really know what you're doing, or have a coach that really knows, you should be really careful.
I'm not trying to be a nervous nelly about it, but keep in mind that if you don't start the race, you can't finish.
posted by OmieWise at 1:35 PM on December 1, 2006
I'm not trying to be a nervous nelly about it, but keep in mind that if you don't start the race, you can't finish.
posted by OmieWise at 1:35 PM on December 1, 2006
I second djb. Here's how to think of this relationship between the aerobic base, and the anaerobic skill.
If you think of your running ability as if it were a building, the aerobic base is like the foundation of the building. If you want to build a skyscraper, you need a big honkin foundation, or that baby is going to tip over or fall in on itself if you make the rest of the building too big. So the first question for you is: are you running 4:45 off of a whole bunch of mileage (an aerobic base), or are you running that 4:45 off of a whole bunch of speed work (anaerobic, basically interval workouts, speed workouts, sprints, drills, anything under 3 miles without stopping).
If you are running that 4:45 off of an aerobic base, or off of natural ability, you are in good shape, and you can do anaerobic training to bring that time down significantly by doing a mix of decent mileage (40 mile/per/week or more) and interval workouts (start with long intervals, say 6x1mile, gradually over 3 months bringing that down to short and fast intervals, and nearing your race date bring the mileage down). Once you get down to whatever speed you get to in the 800 and 1500, know that this represents a peak for you. This is the fastest you can run without doing more aerobic base work.
Now, if you are running that 4:45 after a good amount of speed and interval training, then you are probably already at or nearing a peak, and you won't change that time much without doing aerobic work. Except that aerobic work is going to temporarily make you slower! Not to fear though, as you will find out later, as you transition to a more anaerobically focused plan, that you have actually become faster. You were just so worn out by the long mileage (I'm talking 60-80 miles per week here), that you couldn't perform your best.
You should not be just jumping to 80 miles per week if you have not done that before. That's a good way to do what I did and get achilles tendonitis and be sitting on the sideline for 6 months. You should be taking what you can do now, start with 25 mpw if you don't do anything, and adding 10% a week to that. I know it seems slow but trust me you'll thank me when you're injury free and running strong.
Six months is not a long time when it comes to the world of competitive running training. However, you can probably make the best of it by splitting it into two "periods." The first is 3 months of aerobic work. Just run long distances, and increase the mileage every week, keep yourself healthy. Run very short sprints once a week, about 10x50m, at as fast as you can go. These sprints should not be tough on your muscles, they are just to make sure you remember how to run fast.
The second three months will be your race specific training. Take down the mileage, tapering from whatever high you hit in the aerobic phase to about half that as you go. In the meantime, run interval workouts, starting with long intervals and moving to progressively shorter ones. We used to run 4x2mi at the beginning of the season, and at the middle/end be doing workouts like 4x400m, 8x200m, 16x100m, at faster than goal race pace. There is lots of stuff on the Internet about how to structure interval workouts.
As you get close to the end of the six months, find a race to "peak" for, and taper down your volume. Do only short sprints that don't really hurt you physically (did I mention in the previous phase that those intervals are supposed to hurt? Well they should.), and tone down your mileage again. Now you are ready to race and do your best.
If you follow this, congratulations, you've done your first periodized training. Read about it in Noake's book Lore of Running, or Running Times' Breakthrough Running, or Coe's Training Distance Runners, or... the list goes on. Periodization is where it's at, my friend.
Good luck!
On preview, yes the previous posters are absolutely right to warn you about injury. There's a good chance you will hurt yourself if you attempt a high intensity program. You need to learn to listen to your body. If you are so tired and messed up from your workouts that you can't function, you need to tone it down. You may even need a few days of just easy jogging for 10 minutes a day to recover. Remember what I said about being out six months with tendonitis. That was the worst time of my life, because I had just taken a dream and worked it so hard that I killed it.
posted by zhivota at 1:42 PM on December 1, 2006 [2 favorites]
If you think of your running ability as if it were a building, the aerobic base is like the foundation of the building. If you want to build a skyscraper, you need a big honkin foundation, or that baby is going to tip over or fall in on itself if you make the rest of the building too big. So the first question for you is: are you running 4:45 off of a whole bunch of mileage (an aerobic base), or are you running that 4:45 off of a whole bunch of speed work (anaerobic, basically interval workouts, speed workouts, sprints, drills, anything under 3 miles without stopping).
If you are running that 4:45 off of an aerobic base, or off of natural ability, you are in good shape, and you can do anaerobic training to bring that time down significantly by doing a mix of decent mileage (40 mile/per/week or more) and interval workouts (start with long intervals, say 6x1mile, gradually over 3 months bringing that down to short and fast intervals, and nearing your race date bring the mileage down). Once you get down to whatever speed you get to in the 800 and 1500, know that this represents a peak for you. This is the fastest you can run without doing more aerobic base work.
Now, if you are running that 4:45 after a good amount of speed and interval training, then you are probably already at or nearing a peak, and you won't change that time much without doing aerobic work. Except that aerobic work is going to temporarily make you slower! Not to fear though, as you will find out later, as you transition to a more anaerobically focused plan, that you have actually become faster. You were just so worn out by the long mileage (I'm talking 60-80 miles per week here), that you couldn't perform your best.
You should not be just jumping to 80 miles per week if you have not done that before. That's a good way to do what I did and get achilles tendonitis and be sitting on the sideline for 6 months. You should be taking what you can do now, start with 25 mpw if you don't do anything, and adding 10% a week to that. I know it seems slow but trust me you'll thank me when you're injury free and running strong.
Six months is not a long time when it comes to the world of competitive running training. However, you can probably make the best of it by splitting it into two "periods." The first is 3 months of aerobic work. Just run long distances, and increase the mileage every week, keep yourself healthy. Run very short sprints once a week, about 10x50m, at as fast as you can go. These sprints should not be tough on your muscles, they are just to make sure you remember how to run fast.
The second three months will be your race specific training. Take down the mileage, tapering from whatever high you hit in the aerobic phase to about half that as you go. In the meantime, run interval workouts, starting with long intervals and moving to progressively shorter ones. We used to run 4x2mi at the beginning of the season, and at the middle/end be doing workouts like 4x400m, 8x200m, 16x100m, at faster than goal race pace. There is lots of stuff on the Internet about how to structure interval workouts.
As you get close to the end of the six months, find a race to "peak" for, and taper down your volume. Do only short sprints that don't really hurt you physically (did I mention in the previous phase that those intervals are supposed to hurt? Well they should.), and tone down your mileage again. Now you are ready to race and do your best.
If you follow this, congratulations, you've done your first periodized training. Read about it in Noake's book Lore of Running, or Running Times' Breakthrough Running, or Coe's Training Distance Runners, or... the list goes on. Periodization is where it's at, my friend.
Good luck!
On preview, yes the previous posters are absolutely right to warn you about injury. There's a good chance you will hurt yourself if you attempt a high intensity program. You need to learn to listen to your body. If you are so tired and messed up from your workouts that you can't function, you need to tone it down. You may even need a few days of just easy jogging for 10 minutes a day to recover. Remember what I said about being out six months with tendonitis. That was the worst time of my life, because I had just taken a dream and worked it so hard that I killed it.
posted by zhivota at 1:42 PM on December 1, 2006 [2 favorites]
Great answers, for more, check out the message boards at letsrun.com.
posted by Frank Grimes at 5:07 PM on December 1, 2006
posted by Frank Grimes at 5:07 PM on December 1, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
If, on the other hand, the 4:45 represents a current best effort after at least a month of speed work, then it's a totally different story. You would spend the first 2-3 months building to moderately-high mileage (and getting slower) and then sharpen up gradually for the rest. 4-5 hours a day is probably too much time at that level, even with running 10 miles (average) a day, stretching, icing, doing drills, and lifting. You need years of base fitness before getting to the point where 4 hours a day is productive but won't kill you.
In terms of workouts, a high school or college coach would probably be the most knowledgeable for what you need. Running Times has a plan for high school runners that looks decent.
posted by djb at 12:59 PM on December 1, 2006