Gotta have Faith-uh, Faith-uh, Faith
November 1, 2006 6:57 AM Subscribe
I've started a personal journey on ancient civilizations' view on faith.
I'm in a foreign country where I don't have access to books in English (and I can't speak the language however my wife can). So I'm looking for internet resources about how ancient civilizations had and handled faith in their chosen deity.
For example, what made (or makes) a Shaman or Witch Doctor believe he/she has connection with the spirit world? How did the Native American Indians derive to place so much faith in nature? Or why did ancients place faith in Egyptian mysticism or Greek Gods?
I'm not looking for one specific sect of religion and faith, but generic faith itself and how ancient civ's came to it.
I'm in a foreign country where I don't have access to books in English (and I can't speak the language however my wife can). So I'm looking for internet resources about how ancient civilizations had and handled faith in their chosen deity.
For example, what made (or makes) a Shaman or Witch Doctor believe he/she has connection with the spirit world? How did the Native American Indians derive to place so much faith in nature? Or why did ancients place faith in Egyptian mysticism or Greek Gods?
I'm not looking for one specific sect of religion and faith, but generic faith itself and how ancient civ's came to it.
Have a look around for information on Arnold Toynbee's "A Study of History". He believes religion is a direct response to a challenge - a flaw in the old way of thinking - which enables a collapsing civilisation to be reborn in a united, creative form.
posted by zaebiz at 8:38 AM on November 1, 2006
posted by zaebiz at 8:38 AM on November 1, 2006
Just a clarification -- if you are looking for ethnographic or historical accounts, then you are not looking for "ancient civilizations". There is nothing ancient about a living person practicing their faith. Having said that, you might find some good links here or here.
The most explicit, narrative, non-analytical accounts of this are going to be found in earlier ethnography of the Boasian tradition, where massive, first-person accounts would be transcribed, or lightly edited. I am thinking of something like Diamond Jenness' "The Faith of a Coast Salish Indian". Low on analysis, let the shaman speak for himself or herself.
Email's in profile if you find PDFs or something that can't be downloaded outside of a research library
posted by Rumple at 8:39 AM on November 1, 2006
The most explicit, narrative, non-analytical accounts of this are going to be found in earlier ethnography of the Boasian tradition, where massive, first-person accounts would be transcribed, or lightly edited. I am thinking of something like Diamond Jenness' "The Faith of a Coast Salish Indian". Low on analysis, let the shaman speak for himself or herself.
Email's in profile if you find PDFs or something that can't be downloaded outside of a research library
posted by Rumple at 8:39 AM on November 1, 2006
Religion is an explanatory mechanism for the world around a codifier of behavioral norms. Ancient groups (and we're talking everyone from hunter-gatherers to civs) have religion because they didn't have science and civil law.
posted by The Michael The at 9:02 AM on November 1, 2006
posted by The Michael The at 9:02 AM on November 1, 2006
For example, what made (or makes) a Shaman or Witch Doctor believe he/she has connection with the spirit world? How did the Native American Indians derive to place so much faith in nature? Or why did ancients place faith in Egyptian mysticism or Greek Gods?
I think there is a degree to which you are reading the christian notion of faith back into pagan religions. ANcient civilizations worshipped nature because they lived in nature - nature wasn't something they went to visit for 10 days each august; nature was the everyday experience of the world. The "social imaginary" in which modern people live is structured out of pop culture, high culture, and communication / media, more than anything. Secondarily, one's role - commonly based on profession, but also affected by marital status, parental status, age, nationality, race, & any other "identity" factors enough people start talking about. So to modern people, nature is somewhere in the background, and we think of religion as primarily social because our lives are primarily social. But a tribal civilization lived day to day in nature, and did not draw meaning in life from "making a living", "providing for the family" or "serving the common good" - instead, "making a living" was not distinguished from "living" - you had to hunt or gather or farm or whatever your tribe did as part of continuing to live, but the purpose or meaning of that life was much more directly in front of you. Emerson suggested that those caught up in commerce & politics "miss the problem of existence". In a world where commerce and politics were far less elaborate, the problem of existence is kind of the only thing on the table.
Now, you ask about a witch doctor, native americans, ancient egyptians and ancient greeks. These are all very different societies, and they all have a great number of different "branches", and even within one particular polis / tribe / etc, at one particular generation, you will always have many individual viewpoints - so you're not going to come to one conclusion. For the greeks I'd recommend reading Plato's dialogues or perhaps the ancient naturalists (the "pre-socratics"), to gain a more realistic sense of the culture and religious beliefs (the greeks refer to Zeus much the way later philosophers refer to Deos or Theos - it's an impersonal absolute, not a guy with a beard - much like christian theology is not properly represented by george burns movies).
Julian Jaines is a great read, too.
posted by mdn at 1:02 PM on November 1, 2006
I think there is a degree to which you are reading the christian notion of faith back into pagan religions. ANcient civilizations worshipped nature because they lived in nature - nature wasn't something they went to visit for 10 days each august; nature was the everyday experience of the world. The "social imaginary" in which modern people live is structured out of pop culture, high culture, and communication / media, more than anything. Secondarily, one's role - commonly based on profession, but also affected by marital status, parental status, age, nationality, race, & any other "identity" factors enough people start talking about. So to modern people, nature is somewhere in the background, and we think of religion as primarily social because our lives are primarily social. But a tribal civilization lived day to day in nature, and did not draw meaning in life from "making a living", "providing for the family" or "serving the common good" - instead, "making a living" was not distinguished from "living" - you had to hunt or gather or farm or whatever your tribe did as part of continuing to live, but the purpose or meaning of that life was much more directly in front of you. Emerson suggested that those caught up in commerce & politics "miss the problem of existence". In a world where commerce and politics were far less elaborate, the problem of existence is kind of the only thing on the table.
Now, you ask about a witch doctor, native americans, ancient egyptians and ancient greeks. These are all very different societies, and they all have a great number of different "branches", and even within one particular polis / tribe / etc, at one particular generation, you will always have many individual viewpoints - so you're not going to come to one conclusion. For the greeks I'd recommend reading Plato's dialogues or perhaps the ancient naturalists (the "pre-socratics"), to gain a more realistic sense of the culture and religious beliefs (the greeks refer to Zeus much the way later philosophers refer to Deos or Theos - it's an impersonal absolute, not a guy with a beard - much like christian theology is not properly represented by george burns movies).
Julian Jaines is a great read, too.
posted by mdn at 1:02 PM on November 1, 2006
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posted by Leon at 8:30 AM on November 1, 2006