Good dubbing: No longer just for kung-fu flicks.
October 16, 2006 7:19 PM Subscribe
I've just started watching Six Feet Under on Bravo, where it's being syndicated. I was skeptical at first, because I knew the show would have to be edited for content, but I was halfway into the first episode before I even noticed any changes (at least language-wise). My question: How do they do it so well?
I'm sure we've all seen movies that end up on network/basic cable that have truly awful dubbed-over cursing. I swear to god I watched a network edit of Back to the Future one time that featured Marty saying "Holy [deep voice] donkey, [normal voice] Doc!" However, I was truly impressed with the language editing on Six Feet Under; the only thing that even tipped me off was the sudden realization that Peter Krause probably doesn't say "freaking" all that often. So, what methods are they using now? They don't actually get the actors to come in and say family-friendly words for later dubbing, do they? Are the post-production companies just getting much more adept at voice casting? Or is there some kind of other technical wizardry going on?
Also, a corollary question sparked by these ponderings: Is there any rhyme or reason to how networks edit bad language? Is there a code of conduct for when something is dubbed-over, when it's bleeped or when they just remove the word entirely, or is it just a matter of personal taste?
I'm sure we've all seen movies that end up on network/basic cable that have truly awful dubbed-over cursing. I swear to god I watched a network edit of Back to the Future one time that featured Marty saying "Holy [deep voice] donkey, [normal voice] Doc!" However, I was truly impressed with the language editing on Six Feet Under; the only thing that even tipped me off was the sudden realization that Peter Krause probably doesn't say "freaking" all that often. So, what methods are they using now? They don't actually get the actors to come in and say family-friendly words for later dubbing, do they? Are the post-production companies just getting much more adept at voice casting? Or is there some kind of other technical wizardry going on?
Also, a corollary question sparked by these ponderings: Is there any rhyme or reason to how networks edit bad language? Is there a code of conduct for when something is dubbed-over, when it's bleeped or when they just remove the word entirely, or is it just a matter of personal taste?
Best answer: So, what methods are they using now? They don't actually get the actors to come in and say family-friendly words for later dubbing, do they?
Yes, except for the "later" part. They used to do it later, but Sopranos changed all that as it was costly. (For Sopranos they brought them in later when the show was sold to "network" tv. I'm sure that since then and into the future it'll be in the actors' contracts that they do it "now".
posted by dobbs at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2006
Yes, except for the "later" part. They used to do it later, but Sopranos changed all that as it was costly. (For Sopranos they brought them in later when the show was sold to "network" tv. I'm sure that since then and into the future it'll be in the actors' contracts that they do it "now".
posted by dobbs at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2006
As a point of reference, I believe that with 'Sex and the City', they did tape "family friendly" scenes side-by-side with the original scenes, in anticipation of the show being syndicated.
Yes, that's true. Last night's syndicated episode involved the girls taking a trip to a spa where there were lots of naked women in the locker room. But in syndication, the locker room was empty.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
Yes, that's true. Last night's syndicated episode involved the girls taking a trip to a spa where there were lots of naked women in the locker room. But in syndication, the locker room was empty.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2006 [1 favorite]
No discussion of bad dubbing would be complete without the mention of Mr. Falcon, a network censor.
posted by filmgeek at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2006
posted by filmgeek at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2006
Is there any rhyme or reason to how networks edit bad language?
Well the FCC prohibits the seven dirty words from being uttered on network television in the US. Other than that, I don't expect there's much consistency.
On a slight tangent: CityTV here in Toronto used to show an uncut movie every night at 8 pm. Films longer than 3 hours (with commercials) would start earlier and swear words would be blanked out of the portion of the film that came before 8 pm. Once I was watching a film (after 8) and noticed that when the main character unleashed a torrent of profanity, some words were being blanked out. I couldn't imagine what was being removed when so many F-words were left in. Finally, I figured out that when someone said "motherfucker", they blanked out "mother."
posted by winston at 8:46 PM on October 16, 2006
Well the FCC prohibits the seven dirty words from being uttered on network television in the US. Other than that, I don't expect there's much consistency.
On a slight tangent: CityTV here in Toronto used to show an uncut movie every night at 8 pm. Films longer than 3 hours (with commercials) would start earlier and swear words would be blanked out of the portion of the film that came before 8 pm. Once I was watching a film (after 8) and noticed that when the main character unleashed a torrent of profanity, some words were being blanked out. I couldn't imagine what was being removed when so many F-words were left in. Finally, I figured out that when someone said "motherfucker", they blanked out "mother."
posted by winston at 8:46 PM on October 16, 2006
RE filmgeek's link, who could forget Walter Sobchak's line from The Big Lebowski?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YHXdnWLvH4
I just edited the uncyclopedia entry to reflect this woeful omission.
posted by GriffX at 8:48 PM on October 16, 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YHXdnWLvH4
I just edited the uncyclopedia entry to reflect this woeful omission.
posted by GriffX at 8:48 PM on October 16, 2006
I had exactly the opposite reaction. I found the dubbing highly distracting and thought it blunted the humor. On movies at least, there is always a looping session in post-production where they redo dialogue that didn't sound right and they say the sanitized words. Quality on the latter is often greatly inferior to the former, often because they simply don't care about it.
posted by Manjusri at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2006
posted by Manjusri at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2006
GriffX:
RE filmgeek's link, who could forget Walter Sobchak's line from The Big Lebowski?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YHXdnWLvH4
I just edited the uncyclopedia entry to reflect this woeful omission.
Oh my god, that's simply awesome.
posted by vernondalhart at 8:58 PM on October 16, 2006
RE filmgeek's link, who could forget Walter Sobchak's line from The Big Lebowski?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YHXdnWLvH4
I just edited the uncyclopedia entry to reflect this woeful omission.
Oh my god, that's simply awesome.
posted by vernondalhart at 8:58 PM on October 16, 2006
Well the FCC prohibits the seven dirty words from being uttered on network television in the US. Other than that, I don't expect there's much consistency.
Actually, this doesn't apply between the hours of 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM, as per your own link.
The South Park Movie has been broadcast, uncensored, between those hours multiple times in the last 4 years without censure or fine, and with much pre-publicity.
posted by Roach at 9:48 PM on October 16, 2006
Really? The South Park Movie has been broadcast on network television? I find that very hard to believe. It's been on Comedy Central, a cable channel, numerous times. The FCC doesn't apply the same to cable as it does to broadcast.
posted by shinynewnick at 10:12 PM on October 16, 2006
posted by shinynewnick at 10:12 PM on October 16, 2006
Definitely only on Comedy Central, so I stand corrected on that score. Still, there are different rules between the hours of 10 and 6 on broadcast TV.
posted by Roach at 10:23 PM on October 16, 2006
posted by Roach at 10:23 PM on October 16, 2006
Definitely only on Comedy Central, so I stand corrected on that score. Still, there are different rules between the hours of 10 and 6 on broadcast TV.
"Shit" was uttered on "ER" (NBC) a few years ago, and I think it has crept into a few other shows. I've also heard it on PBS, which somehow seems to get away with things the regular networks don't (e.g. nudity on "I, Claudius").
posted by grumblebee at 2:26 AM on October 17, 2006
FCC content rules only apply to over-the-air stations. The Supreme Court ruled that the government could regulate broadcast content because the airways were public property and scarce resources. FCC rules do not apply at all to cable networks, though not surprisingly many in Congress would like to change that even though the Supreme Court's ruling can't possibly be interpreted as applying to cable. )McCain ahs been trying to force cable networks to sell themselves a la carte by threatening them with content regulation if they don't) As a result, non-pay cable networks walk a fairly fine line. But they cannot be fined by the government no matter what they air.
I think that every major HBO series for the last 15 years has been filming alternate scenes so that the shows can be syndicated. I know The Larry Sanders Show was filmed that way; I can't recall if 1st and Ten was. So there's little to no dubbing going on. When the Sopranos stars airing on A&E (I don't think it has yet) soon, you'll see little to no dubbing there too. Due to the inherent nature of the program, however, A&E still won't air it until after the "family hour"
posted by spira at 2:34 AM on October 17, 2006
I think that every major HBO series for the last 15 years has been filming alternate scenes so that the shows can be syndicated. I know The Larry Sanders Show was filmed that way; I can't recall if 1st and Ten was. So there's little to no dubbing going on. When the Sopranos stars airing on A&E (I don't think it has yet) soon, you'll see little to no dubbing there too. Due to the inherent nature of the program, however, A&E still won't air it until after the "family hour"
posted by spira at 2:34 AM on October 17, 2006
Response by poster: How interesting! I had no idea that entire alternate scenes were filmed. Now I really want to compare the syndicated version to the original version.
Also, I don't think I worded my second question well, so let me clarify: I'm not wondering about what actual words are censored, but how they are censored. How do networks/programs choose from the dubbing, bleeping or blanking-out?
posted by sarahsynonymous at 5:24 AM on October 17, 2006
Also, I don't think I worded my second question well, so let me clarify: I'm not wondering about what actual words are censored, but how they are censored. How do networks/programs choose from the dubbing, bleeping or blanking-out?
posted by sarahsynonymous at 5:24 AM on October 17, 2006
In defense of sound editors everywhere: dubbing or looping some words into a show or film during post-production is a very common practice. Every actor's contract calls for a certain amount of looping.
When a film shoots on location its often very difficult to get a clean audio track. While the physical set can be cleared of civillians and managed, its impossible to prevent an ambulance two blocks away from passing by, and that will end up on the audio track. This is part of the reason that sound engineers on location record "room tone" After a scene is shot, one more take is done for audio only with no one speaking. This room tone is laid under the looped dialogue later for some very realistic dubbing. I assure you that 5-10% of the dialogue you see in any movie shot on location has been dubbed - its done so well you don't realize it.
So then you ask - how about that really awful dubbing we've all seen somewhere on TV ? This is post-release dubbing - and it is as Manjusri said - done by the syndicating networks themselves, who simply don't care about the sound quality, and don't have access to the original actors nor the room tone. Preventing this is part of the reason TV shows shoot alternate scenes and alternate dialogue. If they let the syndication networks do it later, it makes all the original staff look awful !
posted by AuntLisa at 8:11 AM on October 17, 2006
When a film shoots on location its often very difficult to get a clean audio track. While the physical set can be cleared of civillians and managed, its impossible to prevent an ambulance two blocks away from passing by, and that will end up on the audio track. This is part of the reason that sound engineers on location record "room tone" After a scene is shot, one more take is done for audio only with no one speaking. This room tone is laid under the looped dialogue later for some very realistic dubbing. I assure you that 5-10% of the dialogue you see in any movie shot on location has been dubbed - its done so well you don't realize it.
So then you ask - how about that really awful dubbing we've all seen somewhere on TV ? This is post-release dubbing - and it is as Manjusri said - done by the syndicating networks themselves, who simply don't care about the sound quality, and don't have access to the original actors nor the room tone. Preventing this is part of the reason TV shows shoot alternate scenes and alternate dialogue. If they let the syndication networks do it later, it makes all the original staff look awful !
posted by AuntLisa at 8:11 AM on October 17, 2006
There are a basic set of FCC guidelines that they follow, but each network tends to add to them in their own way. A certain word that is FCC-allowable may be bleeped on PAX for instance.
Six Feet Under is a great show I recommend renting or Netflixing them. You really need all the unedited content to get the full effect of the stories.
posted by PetiePal at 9:21 AM on October 17, 2006
Six Feet Under is a great show I recommend renting or Netflixing them. You really need all the unedited content to get the full effect of the stories.
posted by PetiePal at 9:21 AM on October 17, 2006
Six Feet Under edited cannot be the same show. I laughed my ass off when I saw the commericals for it on Bravo.
posted by agregoli at 11:29 AM on October 17, 2006
posted by agregoli at 11:29 AM on October 17, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by cocoagirl at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2006