Us Flags in Media
October 12, 2006 9:48 PM Subscribe
I've noticed that a majority of movies have at least one American flag in them; even when the movie might not be US friendly itself. I do not think this is a confirmation bias issue, and have noticed it since I was a kid. Does anyone have any ideas why this might be?
Most movies have an international audience, and flags are part of quickly and easily establishing place? There are also A LOT of flags around everywhere in the US.
posted by crabintheocean at 10:42 PM on October 12, 2006
posted by crabintheocean at 10:42 PM on October 12, 2006
This is the textbook definition of confirmation bias! What makes you think that it is not?
posted by Rhomboid at 10:43 PM on October 12, 2006
posted by Rhomboid at 10:43 PM on October 12, 2006
Probably a US Flag is a good way to shortcut saying "Scene is set in: America!". Sort of like a shot of the Eiffel Tower = Paris! and Elephant=Africa! and Kangaroo=Australia!
posted by Rubber Soul at 10:55 PM on October 12, 2006
posted by Rubber Soul at 10:55 PM on October 12, 2006
rule out movies actually set in america or featuring main characters that are american and get back to us.
posted by juv3nal at 11:06 PM on October 12, 2006
posted by juv3nal at 11:06 PM on October 12, 2006
Glad someone else notices them too. I thought it was because I am Canadian.
And every time I see them, I have the urge to stand, salute, and yell "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!" at the top of my lungs. I never have, but now that you brought this up, I think I will in the next movie I go to.
Unless the movie is set in France. Or in space, I guess.
posted by Kickstart70 at 11:13 PM on October 12, 2006
And every time I see them, I have the urge to stand, salute, and yell "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!" at the top of my lungs. I never have, but now that you brought this up, I think I will in the next movie I go to.
Unless the movie is set in France. Or in space, I guess.
posted by Kickstart70 at 11:13 PM on October 12, 2006
Looking at the 39 movies I have on DVD, I see four that probably or definitely feature an American flag (L.A. Confidential, Dr. Strangelove, 2001, and Full Metal Jacket). I believe you have the confirmation bias.
posted by Espy Gillespie at 11:22 PM on October 12, 2006
posted by Espy Gillespie at 11:22 PM on October 12, 2006
I don't recall such a thing being true at all. Noticing them as a child is hardly disproof of confirmation bias; in fact I find such a statement rather stange.
posted by oxford blue at 11:52 PM on October 12, 2006
posted by oxford blue at 11:52 PM on October 12, 2006
Not that I necessarily agree with the suggestion that a majority of movies have an American flag, but I would guess based on my viewing that American movies tend to have the flag significantly more often than movies set entirely in other countries, presumably because Americans are fond of flag flying on homes and businesses. Also, if such a trend does exist, I think it's far more likely to be noticed by non-Americans who watch lots of American films (Canadians, UKians etc.), since the American flag is more noteworthy, and far less likely to be automatically filtered/ignored by the subconscious.
Also, it would probably be useful to ask what sort of movies you watch most often, I guess its possible there are certain genres that feature a lot of American flags, like army films and TV movies, maybe.
But it does seem unlikely to me, based on a shed-load of movie watching, that a clear majority of all US movies feature an American flag. I vote confirmation bias, with the above qualifications.
posted by MetaMonkey at 12:07 AM on October 13, 2006
Also, it would probably be useful to ask what sort of movies you watch most often, I guess its possible there are certain genres that feature a lot of American flags, like army films and TV movies, maybe.
But it does seem unlikely to me, based on a shed-load of movie watching, that a clear majority of all US movies feature an American flag. I vote confirmation bias, with the above qualifications.
posted by MetaMonkey at 12:07 AM on October 13, 2006
Americans probably don't see your own flag, but it is everywhere! In your movies, on your covers, like, every scene! :)
Swedes has flags everywhere too, but not on the covers of the two films they've made:)
posted by lundman at 2:33 AM on October 13, 2006
Swedes has flags everywhere too, but not on the covers of the two films they've made:)
posted by lundman at 2:33 AM on October 13, 2006
Exactly lundman; probably americans are used to it. Seen from a eurpean point of view movies and documentaries about the US show an inordinate amount of flags and use of the flag-pattern (stars and stripes).
In Europe there's a taboo on extravagant flag worship for obvious reasons.
posted by jouke at 3:08 AM on October 13, 2006
In Europe there's a taboo on extravagant flag worship for obvious reasons.
posted by jouke at 3:08 AM on October 13, 2006
As a foreigner I notice the American flag loads in movies. Could be because I'm sensitive to it (personal distaste for anything resembling Nationanalism/Patriotism) but it is hard to watch anything American without seeing the red white and blue.
Not just Movies either. It probably is just a reflection of where the society is at (flag waving patriots) rather than anything intentional.
posted by twistedonion at 3:58 AM on October 13, 2006
Not just Movies either. It probably is just a reflection of where the society is at (flag waving patriots) rather than anything intentional.
posted by twistedonion at 3:58 AM on October 13, 2006
Nationanalism... Nationalism
posted by twistedonion at 4:00 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by twistedonion at 4:00 AM on October 13, 2006
I agree that there is an element of confirmation bias here, as well as the flags being a shortcut to establish locale. Another factor is that schools and government buildings are significant plot locations in many movies, and these almost always have flags in front of them. Throw in other businesses (banks, car dearships) and events (Fourth of July Parades, political rallies) and it quickly becomes obvious that it might be difficult to shoot a movie set in the U.S. without showing a flag at some point.
posted by TedW at 4:32 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by TedW at 4:32 AM on October 13, 2006
Umm... the better question here is: Why are American flags flown everywhere in America? These movies are just being true to real life. American flags are all over the place in real life America, thus movies set in America are going to have American flags all over the place.
posted by antifuse at 5:03 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by antifuse at 5:03 AM on October 13, 2006
You can't walk a block / go a day in the US without seeing the flag. Anyone making a film shot in the States would have to make a concious effort NOT to show a flag.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:05 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by Meatbomb at 5:05 AM on October 13, 2006
(From another foreigner)
It's not just flags in American media either, I also hear a lot of "Star Spangled Banners" (even if just a few bars) and pledges of allegiance. How else would an Australian know that schoolkids
posted by claudius at 5:10 AM on October 13, 2006
It's not just flags in American media either, I also hear a lot of "Star Spangled Banners" (even if just a few bars) and pledges of allegiance. How else would an Australian know that schoolkids
pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation under god...to a flag with 50 stars (at the moment) an thirteen stripes, representing the original colonies and the present states; or that they (and all sportspeople before a match) sing
Oh say, can you see, blah bla-bla-blah blah blah light...with their right hands on their hearts?
posted by claudius at 5:10 AM on October 13, 2006
Seen from a eurpean point of view movies and documentaries about the US show an inordinate amount of flags
USians seem to like to stick their flags everywhere. They put them on cars, houses, underwear, dresses, bras, fast food joints, post offices, and even cows. I think possibly the movies are just reflecting the "reality" that the makers unconsciously inhabit. It is possible that this ubiquity could strike everyone else as a little odd.
Actually, I've been in the occasional explicitly undemocratic regime and I've rarely seen so much obviously public flag waving by non-military and government types and without formal decree. It's an unusual quirk.
posted by meehawl at 5:16 AM on October 13, 2006
USians seem to like to stick their flags everywhere. They put them on cars, houses, underwear, dresses, bras, fast food joints, post offices, and even cows. I think possibly the movies are just reflecting the "reality" that the makers unconsciously inhabit. It is possible that this ubiquity could strike everyone else as a little odd.
Actually, I've been in the occasional explicitly undemocratic regime and I've rarely seen so much obviously public flag waving by non-military and government types and without formal decree. It's an unusual quirk.
posted by meehawl at 5:16 AM on October 13, 2006
If these are just background flags, then they are probably largely due to the simple fact that people fly flags in the US.
Umm... the better question here is: Why are American flags flown everywhere in America?
I think the thought is that America is a country founded on "an idea" rather than accidental geographic proximity/race, so we're allowed to be more proud about it because being proud of being american isn't a claim to genetic destiny but to constitutional principles. Of course, immigration is increasingly important to europe now. Still, it's more like an EU flag in that the borders were originally unclear, and could still expand, not by the nation conquering, but by other people interested in joining the union, because they like the idea of the union.
posted by mdn at 5:32 AM on October 13, 2006
Umm... the better question here is: Why are American flags flown everywhere in America?
I think the thought is that America is a country founded on "an idea" rather than accidental geographic proximity/race, so we're allowed to be more proud about it because being proud of being american isn't a claim to genetic destiny but to constitutional principles. Of course, immigration is increasingly important to europe now. Still, it's more like an EU flag in that the borders were originally unclear, and could still expand, not by the nation conquering, but by other people interested in joining the union, because they like the idea of the union.
posted by mdn at 5:32 AM on October 13, 2006
In addition to establishing location or accurately reflecting Americans' flag-waving proclivities, the flags could also be symbolic, and in more ways than just patriotic. Instead of meaning "Yay USA," the flag could also mean "we're not living up to our ideals," depending on the movie.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:58 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by kirkaracha at 5:58 AM on October 13, 2006
You know who else liked to hang lots of flags everywhere ...?
I digress - my point being that most of these films are probably shot not in the US but in Vancouver or Toronto - so to compensate, perhaps overcompensate, they stick these flags up everywhere, along with swapping all the red mailboxes for blue ones, and throwing trash all over the place.
posted by Flashman at 6:10 AM on October 13, 2006
I digress - my point being that most of these films are probably shot not in the US but in Vancouver or Toronto - so to compensate, perhaps overcompensate, they stick these flags up everywhere, along with swapping all the red mailboxes for blue ones, and throwing trash all over the place.
posted by Flashman at 6:10 AM on October 13, 2006
I'm looking out my office window right now and see at least a dozen flags. I'm not sure what meaning that has other than I'm in America. Basically they are ubiquitous as national flags are in other countries. I remember time I spent both in Germany and Spain and seeing their national flags quite often.
Of course it depends on the context of the flags in the films whether there might be a bias. I doubt whether they are purposefully placed like product placements or are they? Do you see these shots specifically as CU of the flags or are they wides with a building flying the flag or a flag sticker on a pickup? Without knowing the specifics it is hard to make a determination.
posted by JJ86 at 6:24 AM on October 13, 2006
Of course it depends on the context of the flags in the films whether there might be a bias. I doubt whether they are purposefully placed like product placements or are they? Do you see these shots specifically as CU of the flags or are they wides with a building flying the flag or a flag sticker on a pickup? Without knowing the specifics it is hard to make a determination.
posted by JJ86 at 6:24 AM on October 13, 2006
You need to improve your DVD collection.
posted by fire&wings at 6:33 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by fire&wings at 6:33 AM on October 13, 2006
I'd have to also guess (if it's not outright confirmation bias) that it's an easy (or lazy) way to get some motion, color and atmosphere into a scene. Sort of like how smoking provides something for characters to do and fidget with, creates neat lighting effects, and sets mood.
posted by condour75 at 6:41 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by condour75 at 6:41 AM on October 13, 2006
Basically they are ubiquitous as national flags are in other countries
No, I'm pretty sure Americans fly their flag a hell of a lot more than Europeans, and fair a bit more than Canadians (Canadians like their flag a little too much too, but at least it only carries good baggage).
In the UK you hardly ever see the Union Jack flying - when I see it I notice it because it's so unusual. Here in Oxford I can think of just two - one outside the Randolph Hotel, and one in front of the courthouse.
posted by Flashman at 6:49 AM on October 13, 2006
No, I'm pretty sure Americans fly their flag a hell of a lot more than Europeans, and fair a bit more than Canadians (Canadians like their flag a little too much too, but at least it only carries good baggage).
In the UK you hardly ever see the Union Jack flying - when I see it I notice it because it's so unusual. Here in Oxford I can think of just two - one outside the Randolph Hotel, and one in front of the courthouse.
posted by Flashman at 6:49 AM on October 13, 2006
There are a *lot* of flags in America. A whole fucking lot.
Even before 9/11, it was common to see them flying in front of 10-20% of randomly picked houses, and probably 20-40% of randomly selected businesses and offices. These days, the figures are probably higher.
Seriously. If you want to make some good money, hire some chinese kids to make American flags and become a flag importer.
posted by Tacos Are Pretty Great at 7:05 AM on October 13, 2006
Even before 9/11, it was common to see them flying in front of 10-20% of randomly picked houses, and probably 20-40% of randomly selected businesses and offices. These days, the figures are probably higher.
Seriously. If you want to make some good money, hire some chinese kids to make American flags and become a flag importer.
posted by Tacos Are Pretty Great at 7:05 AM on October 13, 2006
Response by poster: Just a few notes:
-I play "Where's Waldo" with every movie I watch looking for the US flag; I do not descriminate against the movie. If the American flag is in it, I note it, and if it is not, I do not ignore it. I've spent a long while pondering if this was confirmation bias, and i conclude that it is not. This is a simple question of being observant, such as watching for the movie bloopers, mistakes, and anacronisms.
-I'm surprised that many of you do not see them, the flags are often zoomed right in on, or made plainly and painfully obvious.
-Not all of these films are made in the US, and the flags are intentionally added.
-The flags are not only ones that are flying on poles, but added onto many other objects. One of the funniest ones, since I thought they couldn't possibly be added to the sci-fi futurist movie, was on another random spaceship. The flag is often on random, but intentional objects that don't seem to be a part of the story line, nor effect of the movie.
-I am sorry I have not compiled a list of every movie I have seen, this was merely one of those interesting things that I have thought of asking for a long time. Before labeling it as confirmation bias, and being bias yourself, actually look at the next few movies you see, keep your own tally and get back to me. I am not claiming some sort of conspiracy, only making an observation and asking the question.
posted by Knigel at 7:46 AM on October 13, 2006
-I play "Where's Waldo" with every movie I watch looking for the US flag; I do not descriminate against the movie. If the American flag is in it, I note it, and if it is not, I do not ignore it. I've spent a long while pondering if this was confirmation bias, and i conclude that it is not. This is a simple question of being observant, such as watching for the movie bloopers, mistakes, and anacronisms.
-I'm surprised that many of you do not see them, the flags are often zoomed right in on, or made plainly and painfully obvious.
-Not all of these films are made in the US, and the flags are intentionally added.
-The flags are not only ones that are flying on poles, but added onto many other objects. One of the funniest ones, since I thought they couldn't possibly be added to the sci-fi futurist movie, was on another random spaceship. The flag is often on random, but intentional objects that don't seem to be a part of the story line, nor effect of the movie.
-I am sorry I have not compiled a list of every movie I have seen, this was merely one of those interesting things that I have thought of asking for a long time. Before labeling it as confirmation bias, and being bias yourself, actually look at the next few movies you see, keep your own tally and get back to me. I am not claiming some sort of conspiracy, only making an observation and asking the question.
posted by Knigel at 7:46 AM on October 13, 2006
it would probably be useful to ask what sort of movies you watch most often
I agree. Are you talking about mainstream Hollywood action movies -- "Mission Impossible" and the like? If so, I'm not surprised. Such films are basically "cowboys and Indians" movies with America as the hero.* Or they're darker, more cynical X-files-ish movies in which America (or the American government) is the villain.
But if you don't watch such movies all that much, I doubt you'll find the same ubiquity of American flags. Maybe you'll see more American flags than you would see flags of other countries in their films, but there are tons of American films without flags.
First of all, until recently, most films weren't shot on location. They were shot on sets, so the director/designer would have to purposefully choose to include a flag. And they generally didn't. Where's the flag in "City Lights", "King Kong" (1933), "The Apartment", "The Seven Year Itch", "Bringing Up Baby", "Top Hat"....? Where is it in more recent -- non-cowboys and Indians movies -- "Hannah and Her Sisters", "Eating", "The Village"...?
It's possible that in a couple of the films I've mentioned, you see an American flag on a building, as someone is walking by it. But -- as others have pointed out -- many, many buildings here fly flags.
I'd also like to point out that if you feel that all those flag-flying Americans are rabid patriots, you're wrong. Of course, some of them are, but I once had to hoist a flag daily as part of my job. As far as I was concerned, this activity was similar to sharpening pencils or sweeping the floor. I didn't think much about it one way or the other. It was pretty devoid of meaning for me. And it didn't seem all that important to my employers, either. A pretty mindless ritual.
Flying the flag is like celebrating Christmas: to some, it's deeply meaningful. To others, it's just something you do and then forget about.
*I don't buy that all those action movies, with American heroes and foreign villains, are "patriotic movies," by which I mean that I don't buy that all people watching them -- or even most people -- fell patriotic while watching them (though I'm sure some do -- mostly the people who are already hard-core patriots). Those movies are melodramas, and melodrama is a powerful dramatic form. You just need a hero and a villain. It doesn't matter much who you slot into those two roles. The power -- to many viewers -- is the form itself.
"Lit crit" types like to act like the specific heroes and villains are deeply meaningful. But I don't think most viewers care. They just want an adrenalin rush. If America was the villain, it would seem like the director was trying to make a political point (at least to American viewers), in which case the movie wouldn't be as pure in terms of being an action movie.
(Of course, I'm talking here about American viewers. If there's a Chinese villain, I'm sure that fact isn't incidental to most people who watch the movie in China.)
posted by grumblebee at 7:46 AM on October 13, 2006
I agree. Are you talking about mainstream Hollywood action movies -- "Mission Impossible" and the like? If so, I'm not surprised. Such films are basically "cowboys and Indians" movies with America as the hero.* Or they're darker, more cynical X-files-ish movies in which America (or the American government) is the villain.
But if you don't watch such movies all that much, I doubt you'll find the same ubiquity of American flags. Maybe you'll see more American flags than you would see flags of other countries in their films, but there are tons of American films without flags.
First of all, until recently, most films weren't shot on location. They were shot on sets, so the director/designer would have to purposefully choose to include a flag. And they generally didn't. Where's the flag in "City Lights", "King Kong" (1933), "The Apartment", "The Seven Year Itch", "Bringing Up Baby", "Top Hat"....? Where is it in more recent -- non-cowboys and Indians movies -- "Hannah and Her Sisters", "Eating", "The Village"...?
It's possible that in a couple of the films I've mentioned, you see an American flag on a building, as someone is walking by it. But -- as others have pointed out -- many, many buildings here fly flags.
I'd also like to point out that if you feel that all those flag-flying Americans are rabid patriots, you're wrong. Of course, some of them are, but I once had to hoist a flag daily as part of my job. As far as I was concerned, this activity was similar to sharpening pencils or sweeping the floor. I didn't think much about it one way or the other. It was pretty devoid of meaning for me. And it didn't seem all that important to my employers, either. A pretty mindless ritual.
Flying the flag is like celebrating Christmas: to some, it's deeply meaningful. To others, it's just something you do and then forget about.
*I don't buy that all those action movies, with American heroes and foreign villains, are "patriotic movies," by which I mean that I don't buy that all people watching them -- or even most people -- fell patriotic while watching them (though I'm sure some do -- mostly the people who are already hard-core patriots). Those movies are melodramas, and melodrama is a powerful dramatic form. You just need a hero and a villain. It doesn't matter much who you slot into those two roles. The power -- to many viewers -- is the form itself.
"Lit crit" types like to act like the specific heroes and villains are deeply meaningful. But I don't think most viewers care. They just want an adrenalin rush. If America was the villain, it would seem like the director was trying to make a political point (at least to American viewers), in which case the movie wouldn't be as pure in terms of being an action movie.
(Of course, I'm talking here about American viewers. If there's a Chinese villain, I'm sure that fact isn't incidental to most people who watch the movie in China.)
posted by grumblebee at 7:46 AM on October 13, 2006
Response by poster: Tacos are pretty great, I used to have an American flag that had a made in China label, I got it at some war memorial rally as a kid......In Canada ;p
posted by Knigel at 7:47 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by Knigel at 7:47 AM on October 13, 2006
It's true, Americans fly their flag everywhere. Other countries, not nearly so much.
I'm an American living in South Africa, and I quite like the South African flag. I find myself wanting to make stuff (clothing especially) using those colors and a hint of the pattern (red, yellow, green, blue, white and black. With some bold diaganals).
In Europe, the situation is not helped when you have France/Nethelands and Belgium/Germany, former enemies both, but with flags too much alike. Boring, 3-bars in 3-colors. Yawn.
posted by Goofyy at 7:52 AM on October 13, 2006
I'm an American living in South Africa, and I quite like the South African flag. I find myself wanting to make stuff (clothing especially) using those colors and a hint of the pattern (red, yellow, green, blue, white and black. With some bold diaganals).
In Europe, the situation is not helped when you have France/Nethelands and Belgium/Germany, former enemies both, but with flags too much alike. Boring, 3-bars in 3-colors. Yawn.
posted by Goofyy at 7:52 AM on October 13, 2006
Response by poster: Grumble Bee, I like your response, I haven't seen all of those movies, but when i do I will keep my eyes open for the flags. To answer one of your questions, I watch a lot of different kinds of movies, I am very open. I also think the flag in the cowboy and war movies are a given, so do not give those too much credit in my majority figure. If it were only those movies, I wouldn't be asking my question. What is making me ask, is that they are often in very unexpected movies.
posted by Knigel at 7:53 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by Knigel at 7:53 AM on October 13, 2006
Slightly tangential, but on a similar subject: I watched four hours of US television last night, and I don't remember seeing flags. Not saying they weren't there, but if so, they were lost in the landscape and probably wouldn't be germane to Ugly Betty or Grey's Anatomy.
posted by Robert Angelo at 8:08 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by Robert Angelo at 8:08 AM on October 13, 2006
Flashman said: No, I'm pretty sure Americans fly their flag a hell of a lot more than Europeans...
Of course this is a fascist parade and the fascists are very nationalistic but Spain still has a strong nationalistic identity. Except for them damned separationists in the north...
posted by JJ86 at 8:19 AM on October 13, 2006
Of course this is a fascist parade and the fascists are very nationalistic but Spain still has a strong nationalistic identity. Except for them damned separationists in the north...
posted by JJ86 at 8:19 AM on October 13, 2006
Knigel: you say that this is not confirmation bias, nor is it movies strictly set in/filmed in America, but you give no examples! So far, nobody seems to believe you that it's not just a case of "Americans have lots of flags in America, so movies set/filmed in America have lots of flags". Even just a *few* movies to give us an idea of what type of movie the flags *don't* belong in would be helpful here. As far as I'm concerned, the "I swear I've totally noticed this in almost every movie I've seen, but I can't give you any concrete examples" situation is kinda the pure definition of confirmation bias.
posted by antifuse at 8:20 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by antifuse at 8:20 AM on October 13, 2006
In your quest to figure out the flag thing, I urge you to NOT consider anything like a conspiracy theory. There is no single person or power controlling American movies. Rather, there are various wings of various corporations -- and sometimes independent people -- who make films. And these people don't all meet in a room together and decide what must be put into films.
Yes, there are external pressures, but these are primarily economic. So you need to explain why either (a) a huge number of directors (who don't consult with each other) want to plant flags in there moves or (b) why producers/corporations feel that their films will sell better if there are American flags in the films. (And then you have to show that directors can be convinced or forced to insert the flags.)
Product placement is a bit like what you're talking about. Gratuitous shots of coke bottles are inserted in movies. But it's not JUST Coke bottles, because there's no Advertiser. There are many advertisers, all advocating their products. So some movies feature coke, others feature M&Ms, and still others feature no purposeful product placement.
But there is no advocate of the flag with any say in Hollywood. I guess it's possible that (though I don't believe this for a second) the US Government could be pressuring Hollywood, but why would Hollywood care? (Remember, there is no "Hollywood" -- just a bunch of people in the same industry, with a variety of opinions, all making movies.) Hollywood wants to make films that make money; individual film makers want to make films that are beautiful, exciting, funny, further their careers, etc.
With respect, I think it's (intellectually) dangerous to tell yourself that you don't have a confirmation bias. No one things they do. And even smart people who purposefully worry about having a confirmation bias can have them.
If you're really interested in the reality of the situation, watch 100 American films. GET SOMEONE ELSE TO SELECT THEM FOUR YOU, but instruct them to choose from all eras and genres -- and not just really popular/critically acclaimed movies. THEN play your "where's Waldo" game.
Only count flags that have been featured in shots (close ups, etc.) Like many people here, I don't think it's fair to count flags that just happen to be on buildings, as that's a common American feature. To remove these flags would be to assault reality (a similar assault would be to remove windows).
In Science, someone can't just claim they don't have a confirmation bias: they have to follow rigid rules (double-blind tests, etc.) This isn't because scientists have sticks up their asses. It's because the human brain was build to have confirmation biases. When seeking truth, we must use mechanisms and rules to fight the biases of our brain. It's not a matter of intelligence, conviction or character.
posted by grumblebee at 8:41 AM on October 13, 2006
Yes, there are external pressures, but these are primarily economic. So you need to explain why either (a) a huge number of directors (who don't consult with each other) want to plant flags in there moves or (b) why producers/corporations feel that their films will sell better if there are American flags in the films. (And then you have to show that directors can be convinced or forced to insert the flags.)
Product placement is a bit like what you're talking about. Gratuitous shots of coke bottles are inserted in movies. But it's not JUST Coke bottles, because there's no Advertiser. There are many advertisers, all advocating their products. So some movies feature coke, others feature M&Ms, and still others feature no purposeful product placement.
But there is no advocate of the flag with any say in Hollywood. I guess it's possible that (though I don't believe this for a second) the US Government could be pressuring Hollywood, but why would Hollywood care? (Remember, there is no "Hollywood" -- just a bunch of people in the same industry, with a variety of opinions, all making movies.) Hollywood wants to make films that make money; individual film makers want to make films that are beautiful, exciting, funny, further their careers, etc.
With respect, I think it's (intellectually) dangerous to tell yourself that you don't have a confirmation bias. No one things they do. And even smart people who purposefully worry about having a confirmation bias can have them.
If you're really interested in the reality of the situation, watch 100 American films. GET SOMEONE ELSE TO SELECT THEM FOUR YOU, but instruct them to choose from all eras and genres -- and not just really popular/critically acclaimed movies. THEN play your "where's Waldo" game.
Only count flags that have been featured in shots (close ups, etc.) Like many people here, I don't think it's fair to count flags that just happen to be on buildings, as that's a common American feature. To remove these flags would be to assault reality (a similar assault would be to remove windows).
In Science, someone can't just claim they don't have a confirmation bias: they have to follow rigid rules (double-blind tests, etc.) This isn't because scientists have sticks up their asses. It's because the human brain was build to have confirmation biases. When seeking truth, we must use mechanisms and rules to fight the biases of our brain. It's not a matter of intelligence, conviction or character.
posted by grumblebee at 8:41 AM on October 13, 2006
As an American living in Canada, it sure seems like there are a lot more flags being flown up here. Of course, I think this is the phenomenon of noticing things that are "new". That is to say, I probably don't notice US flags as much because I grew up with them, where as the Canadian flags stand out a little more.
posted by Staggering Jack at 8:46 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by Staggering Jack at 8:46 AM on October 13, 2006
Re unusual prevalence of flags in the US: I was reading a German travel guide to the US in the airport, and in the introduction it said that the presence of flags everywhere was one of the two strangest things about America for German visitors. The other was that you can't drink on the street.
posted by escabeche at 8:55 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by escabeche at 8:55 AM on October 13, 2006
I agree with Staggering Jack. When I was living in Canada, I saw the maple leaf everywhere. (Even in the McDonald's Arch!) Now that I'm back in the states, I never notice Old Glory, though it might be just as prevalent.
I think that flags are ubiquitous everywhere, but you notice them only if they're unfamiliar or if you start looking for them.
posted by mbrubeck at 11:14 AM on October 13, 2006
I think that flags are ubiquitous everywhere, but you notice them only if they're unfamiliar or if you start looking for them.
posted by mbrubeck at 11:14 AM on October 13, 2006
I work in downtown Chicago (the Loop, to locals). I just took a three block walk to get lunch and do some errands. I counted over forty US flags; about half actual flags, half stickers/decals. I see more flags now than pre-9/11. There are more stickers/decals/lapel pins/t-shirts/magnetic stickers/bumper stickers now than I can ever remember. Jingoism (and fear) sells.
posted by weirdoactor at 11:28 AM on October 13, 2006
posted by weirdoactor at 11:28 AM on October 13, 2006
Response by poster: Ok, yes, anyone can have confirmation bias, and that might be me. Unfortunately, I do not have time for movies at this time in my life, but I will be a bit more scientific when I watch my next ones. My main purpose was to start a discussion on a subject that other people and myself had discussed for a long time and was curious as to why it was happening. Metafilter is ideal in my opinion to figure these things out. Next week, perhaps, I will post a question asking people what movies they have seen that have an American flag. Communities are better than individuals when it comes to work ;)
If I could I would go back and erase my statement about confirmation bias as it seems to be distracting and side tracking the conversation.
Plus, there are many other psychological labels one could use to debunk my observations instead of confirmation bias.
posted by Knigel at 7:46 PM on October 13, 2006
If I could I would go back and erase my statement about confirmation bias as it seems to be distracting and side tracking the conversation.
Plus, there are many other psychological labels one could use to debunk my observations instead of confirmation bias.
posted by Knigel at 7:46 PM on October 13, 2006
How else would an Australian know that ...they (and all sportspeople before a match) sing
Oh say, can you see, blah bla-bla-blah blah blah light...
with their right hands on their hearts?
Because of The Simpsons and Krusty?
posted by oxford blue at 4:33 PM on October 15, 2006
Oh say, can you see, blah bla-bla-blah blah blah light...
with their right hands on their hearts?
Because of The Simpsons and Krusty?
posted by oxford blue at 4:33 PM on October 15, 2006
My main purpose was to start a discussion
This is not what AskMe is for. If you want to have a discussion, try MetaChat.
posted by antifuse at 1:46 AM on October 16, 2006
This is not what AskMe is for. If you want to have a discussion, try MetaChat.
posted by antifuse at 1:46 AM on October 16, 2006
Response by poster: Antifuse, my *higher* purpose was to get my question answered. Discussion is grand, it is the answers I am looking for. In any case, I like what I got, and am pretty sure I'm in the right place. Thanks for the suggestion though.
posted by Knigel at 6:42 PM on October 19, 2006
posted by Knigel at 6:42 PM on October 19, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by pompomtom at 10:00 PM on October 12, 2006