London?
October 4, 2006 10:51 AM Subscribe
Where should I live in London?
So I already asked about Cambridge. I spent a week there and have a good idea of where I'd live if I took that job.
But now it gets wrinkly.
I've got another offer in London. Unfortunately it's around the same money with a small stipend for london cost of living increase that doesn't cover the difference.
Anyhoo, regardless of the pay, I'm still considering it.
But where should I live?
The second position is in London. The office is 2 minutes away from Oxford Circus tube, so it's smack dab in the center.
It'll be me, my wife and 3 cats. If we rent a small place we'd leave a bunch of our stuff, but we're also amenable to living "near" london.
Operative concerns:
I dislike the idea of living one place and working another. If you go to the trouble of being near such a culturally rich place such as London, NYC or SF, make an effort to be reasonably close.
Transportation Costs. On a tube line as opposed mainline train would be better.
Safety. Scared american cityfolk. I want to live someplace safe.
Cost. Ideal rent would be <1000, but conceivably could go to <1200 if necessary. Council taxes <100 a month would be good.
Grocery Stores are a plus.
Assume I'd have a bike and tube pass with as few zones on it as needed.
Additionally, my wife would also be using transportation to get around london.
What neighborhoods do you guys recommend?
So I already asked about Cambridge. I spent a week there and have a good idea of where I'd live if I took that job.
But now it gets wrinkly.
I've got another offer in London. Unfortunately it's around the same money with a small stipend for london cost of living increase that doesn't cover the difference.
Anyhoo, regardless of the pay, I'm still considering it.
But where should I live?
The second position is in London. The office is 2 minutes away from Oxford Circus tube, so it's smack dab in the center.
It'll be me, my wife and 3 cats. If we rent a small place we'd leave a bunch of our stuff, but we're also amenable to living "near" london.
Operative concerns:
I dislike the idea of living one place and working another. If you go to the trouble of being near such a culturally rich place such as London, NYC or SF, make an effort to be reasonably close.
Transportation Costs. On a tube line as opposed mainline train would be better.
Safety. Scared american cityfolk. I want to live someplace safe.
Cost. Ideal rent would be <1000, but conceivably could go to <1200 if necessary. Council taxes <100 a month would be good.
Grocery Stores are a plus.
Assume I'd have a bike and tube pass with as few zones on it as needed.
Additionally, my wife would also be using transportation to get around london.
What neighborhoods do you guys recommend?
I fear you are unrealistic in your price requirements, but I'm no native. I like Camden, but know it through friends. I lived out in Berkshire (western suburbs).
posted by Goofyy at 11:08 AM on October 4, 2006
posted by Goofyy at 11:08 AM on October 4, 2006
Response by poster: Okay. So assume I'm unrealistic.
What's a good place to live that's affordable? Assume minimizing commute time is useful :)
What's the best method for transport? Tube? Oyster Card? Bike? Rail Tickets?
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:12 AM on October 4, 2006
What's a good place to live that's affordable? Assume minimizing commute time is useful :)
What's the best method for transport? Tube? Oyster Card? Bike? Rail Tickets?
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:12 AM on October 4, 2006
PS it was a standing joke that you could get a movie or TV show financed, written, cast, directed and distributed just by going to the Railway Tavern and chatting with the regulars, most of whom looked like football hooligans but turned out to be semi-famous. I met one of my best friends ('thugboy') by being terrified that he was going to beat me up. It turned out he wrote sitcoms. His partner wrote EASTENDERS. They introduced me to Tony, who starred in THE BILL. Then Sean Hughes came over with his dog and sat down..
posted by unSane at 11:15 AM on October 4, 2006
posted by unSane at 11:15 AM on October 4, 2006
not in South London (THANK GOD)
Ignore this North London snobbery.
I'd recommend Richmond, although you'll be pushing it on the rent and council tax front, but if you can even have a worse home there it's worth it for the neighborhood. I'd also recommend Greenwich for the same reason. Both Greenwich and Richmond are on tube lines, and are both in South London.
posted by wackybrit at 11:54 AM on October 4, 2006
Ignore this North London snobbery.
I'd recommend Richmond, although you'll be pushing it on the rent and council tax front, but if you can even have a worse home there it's worth it for the neighborhood. I'd also recommend Greenwich for the same reason. Both Greenwich and Richmond are on tube lines, and are both in South London.
posted by wackybrit at 11:54 AM on October 4, 2006
I liked Bloomsbury/Holborn. It looks like you can find a 1 bedroom for about 250/week if you look carefully. It's only a tube stop away from Oxford Circus, so it's very well connected. There are also several grocery stores nearby, including an excellent, brand new Waitrose (it's like an American supermarket, but perhaps better) just across the road from the Russell Square tube station.
I definitely recommend the Oyster Card with a monthly tube pass and a few pounds pay-as-you-go. For some reason, they never charged me for my bus rides when I used it -- not that I'm complaining. Lots of people ride bikes in that area. It's just inside the Congestion Charge zone, so cars may be more of an issue, but you would get a resident's discount on the charge.
A note: Bloomsbury is in the borough of Camden, which is great. For scared American city folks, I don't recommend Camden Town, which is in the same borough but further north. For one, it's less conveniently located and on the miserable Northern Line. More importantly, it's very hip-student-edgy -- I never felt overtly threatened, but it was much less comfortable to me than Bloomsbury. It wasn't so much the rampant mohawks, piercings, and tattoos, as the crowds of surly-looking youth drinking beer on the bridge. It's a lovely place to visit, but I'd hate to have to walk through it to get home at night.
posted by katemonster at 11:54 AM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite]
I definitely recommend the Oyster Card with a monthly tube pass and a few pounds pay-as-you-go. For some reason, they never charged me for my bus rides when I used it -- not that I'm complaining. Lots of people ride bikes in that area. It's just inside the Congestion Charge zone, so cars may be more of an issue, but you would get a resident's discount on the charge.
A note: Bloomsbury is in the borough of Camden, which is great. For scared American city folks, I don't recommend Camden Town, which is in the same borough but further north. For one, it's less conveniently located and on the miserable Northern Line. More importantly, it's very hip-student-edgy -- I never felt overtly threatened, but it was much less comfortable to me than Bloomsbury. It wasn't so much the rampant mohawks, piercings, and tattoos, as the crowds of surly-looking youth drinking beer on the bridge. It's a lovely place to visit, but I'd hate to have to walk through it to get home at night.
posted by katemonster at 11:54 AM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite]
The East End meets your critieria. I'm in Whitechapel, E1, right in the middle of Zone 2. Fast easy commute into Central London. For your destination it would be DLR to Bank, then Central Line - maybe minutes or so.
I'm in a two bedroom split level ground floor flat with a garden; I own, but I'm going to rent it out in about one year and agent man tells me it'll go for 230-250 a week. Just a data point, not sure about a one bedroom or bedsit.
Council tax runs me (with single resident discount about 60 pounds a month.
It's an "in your face urban" type of environment. Parts are definitely not easy on the eyes, but other areas of the East End are jaw droppingly beautiful. The Thames is about a ten minute walk away for me, the Tate Modern maybe twenty five and Hoxton about fifteen. Lots to do.
I've lived in Camden Town as well; much, much more expensive and that market is bloody annoying!
posted by Mutant at 11:55 AM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite]
I'm in a two bedroom split level ground floor flat with a garden; I own, but I'm going to rent it out in about one year and agent man tells me it'll go for 230-250 a week. Just a data point, not sure about a one bedroom or bedsit.
Council tax runs me (with single resident discount about 60 pounds a month.
It's an "in your face urban" type of environment. Parts are definitely not easy on the eyes, but other areas of the East End are jaw droppingly beautiful. The Thames is about a ten minute walk away for me, the Tate Modern maybe twenty five and Hoxton about fifteen. Lots to do.
I've lived in Camden Town as well; much, much more expensive and that market is bloody annoying!
posted by Mutant at 11:55 AM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite]
I second Crouch End - it's close to bus/tube connections, loads of grocery options, nice restaurants, a cool green grocery. I dont know about council taxes though.
Completely safe, I've never been worried.
posted by darsh at 12:54 PM on October 4, 2006
Completely safe, I've never been worried.
posted by darsh at 12:54 PM on October 4, 2006
Islington/Highbury - in fact somewhere in walking distance to Highbury & Islington tube (on the Victoria Line). Search for rentals in N1 or N5.
Though Crouch End is also a very good suggestion (most of EastEnders seem to live there according to mate who lived there for years - and has just moved next to H&I tube - and you'll never look at Shaun of the Dead the same way again)
posted by patricio at 1:39 PM on October 4, 2006
Though Crouch End is also a very good suggestion (most of EastEnders seem to live there according to mate who lived there for years - and has just moved next to H&I tube - and you'll never look at Shaun of the Dead the same way again)
posted by patricio at 1:39 PM on October 4, 2006
Response by poster: To find the best rentals, I assume rightmove and findaproperty are my best bet?
posted by Lord_Pall at 1:46 PM on October 4, 2006
posted by Lord_Pall at 1:46 PM on October 4, 2006
In response to your last comment, I think there was just a thread on finding rentals in London just a couple of days ago.
posted by grouse at 2:02 PM on October 4, 2006
posted by grouse at 2:02 PM on October 4, 2006
Response by poster: Yah. That's where I got those from. I was just double checking that that was the best place.
posted by Lord_Pall at 2:07 PM on October 4, 2006
posted by Lord_Pall at 2:07 PM on October 4, 2006
Oxford Circus is the busiest tube station on the entire network, so getting to and from work shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as you end up close to a tube station. Which is why you should ignore Crouch End fans: it's a nice area but its public transport is lamentable.
I'd recommend having a look at Balham (the new Clapham) or, if that's too pricey, Tooting (the new Balham). But wherever you end up looking, before you sign a lease find a local who lives in that area and get them to tell you which roads are good and which are bad. I mean, there are some terrific bits of Brixton, and there are some bits that are basically no-go zones.
posted by Hogshead at 3:22 PM on October 4, 2006
I'd recommend having a look at Balham (the new Clapham) or, if that's too pricey, Tooting (the new Balham). But wherever you end up looking, before you sign a lease find a local who lives in that area and get them to tell you which roads are good and which are bad. I mean, there are some terrific bits of Brixton, and there are some bits that are basically no-go zones.
posted by Hogshead at 3:22 PM on October 4, 2006
The most important piece of advice I can give you is that there is no substitute for local knowledge. You can't find a place to live in London just by clicking on a few websites. You have to walk the streets, get a sense of the area, look in estate agents' windows, look at the property pages in local newspapers, or talk to estate agents and ask to be put on their mailing lists. One major consideration will be the length of your daily journey into work, so it's worth spending some time on the Transport for London website, to work out how long it will take to get from A to B.
Some areas you might consider:
Kentish Town / Tufnell Park. Well served by public transport (King's Cross only a few stops away on the Northern Line).
Crouch End. Good shops; good atmosphere; perhaps not so good for public transport.
Finsbury Park. Used to be horrible, but now going up in the world; a friend of mine lives there and recommends it highly. Good public transport (Victoria Line will take you straight to Oxford Circus).
Stoke Newington / Newington Green. Another recently gentrified area (going up on the coat-tails of Islington); slow but direct journey to Oxford Circus via 73 bus.
(Note: I am an unrepentant North Londoner, so you will have to find someone else to give you advice on South London.)
I have to say, given the choice between London and Cambridge I wouldn't hesitate for a moment: for me, it would have to be Cambridge -- prettier surroundings, easier for transport, better quality of life altogether. Of course London has its advantages, but the great disadvantage is the endless commuting: for me, 40 minutes into work each morning, and the same back home in the evening, that's 6-7 hours a week, nearly the equivalent of a full working day (and by London standards that's a short commute ..) Don't underestimate it.
posted by verstegan at 3:27 PM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite]
Some areas you might consider:
Kentish Town / Tufnell Park. Well served by public transport (King's Cross only a few stops away on the Northern Line).
Crouch End. Good shops; good atmosphere; perhaps not so good for public transport.
Finsbury Park. Used to be horrible, but now going up in the world; a friend of mine lives there and recommends it highly. Good public transport (Victoria Line will take you straight to Oxford Circus).
Stoke Newington / Newington Green. Another recently gentrified area (going up on the coat-tails of Islington); slow but direct journey to Oxford Circus via 73 bus.
(Note: I am an unrepentant North Londoner, so you will have to find someone else to give you advice on South London.)
I have to say, given the choice between London and Cambridge I wouldn't hesitate for a moment: for me, it would have to be Cambridge -- prettier surroundings, easier for transport, better quality of life altogether. Of course London has its advantages, but the great disadvantage is the endless commuting: for me, 40 minutes into work each morning, and the same back home in the evening, that's 6-7 hours a week, nearly the equivalent of a full working day (and by London standards that's a short commute ..) Don't underestimate it.
posted by verstegan at 3:27 PM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite]
Not to derail the discussion, but it depends what you do while you're commuting. If you lean your head back with your mouth open and read the adverts, yes, that's wasted time. If you drive, that's probably also wasted time. Me, I've written three (published) books while commuting on the London underground, and am working on a fourth.
posted by Hogshead at 3:32 PM on October 4, 2006
posted by Hogshead at 3:32 PM on October 4, 2006
Living in Upper Holloway (Around the Kentish Town/Tufnell Park/Islignton area) I'd say North London's pretty fun, but it's not settling down territory, unless you're further North East, in say - Crouch End, which is lovely (I was there tonight, and a barmaid old me that I was 'a very attractive man' - bonus points for Crouch End). Thing is, it's not too well connected for transport - no tube.
Try looking around Notting Hill. There's some lovely places round there - and as my boss says - West is Best.
posted by armoured-ant at 4:16 PM on October 4, 2006
Try looking around Notting Hill. There's some lovely places round there - and as my boss says - West is Best.
posted by armoured-ant at 4:16 PM on October 4, 2006
*whimsical sigh*
posted by oxford blue at 4:19 PM on October 4, 2006
posted by oxford blue at 4:19 PM on October 4, 2006
I'd suggest Chiswick in West London. Nice busy high street with lots of pubs, restaurants, supermarkets, etc. A quick google search of rentals in Chiswick will give you an idea of prices.
Oyster card is best for tubes and busses. Rail service doesn't go into central London so no comparison there. If you take the rail, you'll stilll need to connect to a tube or bus to get to Oxford.
posted by gfrobe at 4:23 PM on October 4, 2006
Oyster card is best for tubes and busses. Rail service doesn't go into central London so no comparison there. If you take the rail, you'll stilll need to connect to a tube or bus to get to Oxford.
posted by gfrobe at 4:23 PM on October 4, 2006
Response by poster: So I think the major lesson I've gotten so far I need to budget more :)
Honestly, the places you've been recommending all look great. It looks like ~1600 a month is a good amount for a place.
Which seems to blast my budgeting out of the water :(
On a related note, what's a good baseline for elec/heat/water/internet? I'm stabbing in the dark at the moment for estimates on those..
posted by Lord_Pall at 5:13 PM on October 4, 2006
Honestly, the places you've been recommending all look great. It looks like ~1600 a month is a good amount for a place.
Which seems to blast my budgeting out of the water :(
On a related note, what's a good baseline for elec/heat/water/internet? I'm stabbing in the dark at the moment for estimates on those..
posted by Lord_Pall at 5:13 PM on October 4, 2006
Once you've narrowed your search down to a few places, you may find UpMyStreet useful - it'll tell you Council Tax, letting costs, population breakdown, crime rates etc.
posted by Busy Old Fool at 8:17 PM on October 4, 2006
posted by Busy Old Fool at 8:17 PM on October 4, 2006
"...what's a good baseline for elec/heat/water/internet?"
The expenditures I'm quoting, direct from my budget spreadsheet, are for a single person living in The East End, paying monthly by direct debit (in England some vendors discount as much as 5% for customers that pay by direct debit).
£31 / £30 / £28 / £18 for electricity, gas and internet respectively.
A note about water : in many flats in London this is actually a function of property value, not number of residents and is a flat rate - some properties do have meters though.
posted by Mutant at 11:10 PM on October 4, 2006
The expenditures I'm quoting, direct from my budget spreadsheet, are for a single person living in The East End, paying monthly by direct debit (in England some vendors discount as much as 5% for customers that pay by direct debit).
£31 / £30 / £28 / £18 for electricity, gas and internet respectively.
A note about water : in many flats in London this is actually a function of property value, not number of residents and is a flat rate - some properties do have meters though.
posted by Mutant at 11:10 PM on October 4, 2006
UpMyStreet is absolutely fabulous! I forgot about that resource. My partner found it, it was extremely helpful in our searches out in Berkshire. Nice clues, like what papers people tend to take there, speak volumes on the nature of prospective neighbors.
posted by Goofyy at 11:29 PM on October 4, 2006
posted by Goofyy at 11:29 PM on October 4, 2006
I know you say you want the tube, but there are quite nice (and cheap) bits of south london that are short train commutes to charing X. Once you're there, it's 15 mins walk or a short bus ride to Oxford Circus. Sydenham, Forest Hill, Dulwich - find a place near a train station, and you're 20 mins train from town. If you go farther out (Penge, Beckenham, Anerley etc.) it can be nicer and the commute doesn't get much longer or nastier (because there are fast trains, and you can often get a seat). Depends what you want I guess.
posted by handee at 1:06 AM on October 5, 2006
posted by handee at 1:06 AM on October 5, 2006
Walthamstow.
It's not quite the 'with it' hub of activities that some of the other areas mentioned are, but there is enough stuff here to make it interesting. But it's cheap, and on the Victoria Line which gets you to Oxford Circus in about 25 minutes.
You can rent a two bedroom house, with garden for about 800-900 a month.
posted by Helga-woo at 1:39 AM on October 5, 2006
It's not quite the 'with it' hub of activities that some of the other areas mentioned are, but there is enough stuff here to make it interesting. But it's cheap, and on the Victoria Line which gets you to Oxford Circus in about 25 minutes.
You can rent a two bedroom house, with garden for about 800-900 a month.
posted by Helga-woo at 1:39 AM on October 5, 2006
I've lived all over London, and Islington/Highbury is by far my favourite place. Feels fairly safe, great transport, great amenities.
posted by ascullion at 2:22 AM on October 5, 2006
posted by ascullion at 2:22 AM on October 5, 2006
I live in Herne Hill, south London. It's a lovely neighbourhood, just close enough to Brixton to make going out for some beers easy, and it has its own Thameslink station, that'll have you into the centre of London in no time (say 15 mins). There's lots of nice pubs, bakeries and other assorted shops, and it's still relatively cheap (you could probably find a two bedroom place around here for less than a grand a month). If you do end up coming anywhere around here, drop me a line and I'll take you for an orientation pint (my fiance is American, and will probably be moving over at the same time). Oh yeah, big park right next door too, and an outdoor swimming pool for the summers!
posted by Happy Dave at 3:13 AM on October 5, 2006
posted by Happy Dave at 3:13 AM on October 5, 2006
We're in Highbury, and love it. We pay 1017 pcm for a one-bedroom, and the flat was brand new when we moved in 18 months ago. I love this area - we are only a few minutes from Islington, Finsbury Park and Stoke Newington and the transport is great - there are quite literally 27 different ways I can get to work via public transport, and Oxford Circus is only 20 mins away. And it's zone 2. There are also lots of large parks nearby - Clissold Park, Finsbury Park and Highbury Fields are short walks away, and there is plenty of choice in grocery stores (huge 24-hour Sainsbury's in walking distance, but also Turkish, Ethiopian, Caribbean, Somali, Polski, etc etc and a great local butcher and fruit shop, not to mention the cheese shop to end all cheese shops).
We would definitely buy in this area if it didn't take me an hour plus to get to work.
posted by goo at 3:24 AM on October 5, 2006
We would definitely buy in this area if it didn't take me an hour plus to get to work.
posted by goo at 3:24 AM on October 5, 2006
(Ha! Happy Dave - Herne Hill is one of my favourite places in Sarf London. If I had to go south, that's probably where I would choose.)
posted by goo at 3:27 AM on October 5, 2006
posted by goo at 3:27 AM on October 5, 2006
I'd recommend Parsons Green, the nicer parts of Battersea (esp. between the commons), and Notting Hill.
Oh, and welcome!
posted by dmt at 4:37 AM on October 5, 2006
Oh, and welcome!
posted by dmt at 4:37 AM on October 5, 2006
I moved to London two months ago, and am living in Shepherd's Bush. From my experience so far, it satisfies all your criteria including cost.
Regardless of where you end up, but particularly if you end up in Shepherd's Bush, I recommend looking at this thread (self link) which contains a ton of information which may help get you started
posted by louigi at 5:19 AM on October 5, 2006
Regardless of where you end up, but particularly if you end up in Shepherd's Bush, I recommend looking at this thread (self link) which contains a ton of information which may help get you started
posted by louigi at 5:19 AM on October 5, 2006
I also recommend highbury. Its within your budget (1,200 pm will get you an OK place), nice area, great pubs, reasonable shops, some green spaces, and a very easy commute. The actual train time from highbury to oxford circus is less than 10mins, although you've got to walk to the tube, etc.
One tip about london commuting: not all tube lines are equal. Some are reliable and frequent, others are awful. The Victoria line is the best one, trains every 2 mins, rarely breaks. The Northern line is the probably the worst. Highbury is on the Victoria.
posted by Touchstone at 6:57 AM on October 5, 2006
One tip about london commuting: not all tube lines are equal. Some are reliable and frequent, others are awful. The Victoria line is the best one, trains every 2 mins, rarely breaks. The Northern line is the probably the worst. Highbury is on the Victoria.
posted by Touchstone at 6:57 AM on October 5, 2006
I moved to London in July and am very happy renting between Russell Square and Kings Cross. It's central enough to be able to walk EVERYWHERE - 25 mins to oxford circus, 20 mins to camden, 45 mins to the river - but quiet enough to be a nice area and not feel like you're "right in the middle of a city". And I'm one of two single girls living in my flat, we've felt totally safe the whole time.
Just my input on the thread :)
posted by angryjellybean at 9:20 AM on October 5, 2006
Just my input on the thread :)
posted by angryjellybean at 9:20 AM on October 5, 2006
Response by poster: Should I be concerned that N5/Highbury has the highest violent crime statistic of any of the postcodes I've checked out?
posted by Lord_Pall at 10:12 AM on October 5, 2006
posted by Lord_Pall at 10:12 AM on October 5, 2006
N5 is not a particularly violent area. Nowhere in London is completely safe. But the risks are less than you think. I lived there from 1988-2001 and didn't feel threatened once, despite spending a lot of time in iffy neighbourhoods, late at night, alone etc.
On the other hand we were burgled twice and there were two or three murders on my street in a five year period -- and this is living in peaceable Crouch End.
posted by unSane at 10:35 AM on October 5, 2006
On the other hand we were burgled twice and there were two or three murders on my street in a five year period -- and this is living in peaceable Crouch End.
posted by unSane at 10:35 AM on October 5, 2006
Tube-wise, for delays and trains out of service the Metropolitan line is the worst. The Northern line is one of the city's better lines these days -- fewer delays than the Victoria line, and 0.8% worse on trains in service.
Detailed statistics here.
posted by Hogshead at 9:39 PM on October 8, 2006
Detailed statistics here.
posted by Hogshead at 9:39 PM on October 8, 2006
goo - my flat was brand new when i moved in 18 months ago too.. I wonder if we live in the same building..
posted by ascullion at 4:05 AM on October 10, 2006
posted by ascullion at 4:05 AM on October 10, 2006
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posted by unSane at 11:06 AM on October 4, 2006 [1 favorite]