How do I come to terms with my friend's drug use?
September 10, 2006 3:46 AM Subscribe
How do I come to terms with my friend's drug use?
I have always been against recreational drug use. I realise my views are archaic and that I'm in the minority for people my age (early 20s). My views are the product of my past: a family very strictly against drugs, my time volunteering in a rehabilitation center, and maintaining close friends with similar views.
Despite that, I consider myself quite liberal - I've always believed that it is the choice of the individual, regardless of whether I personally believe it is right or wrong.
However, it really hit home recently one of the close friends who *used* to share my opinion started taking drugs and immediately reversed her ideals. When I found out I felt upset and betrayed. I felt that she had sold out her values. It was a real slap in the face. I'm also concerned about her wellbeing (she's on sertraline) but I know that the health risks are minimal to none (she took cannabis).
I'd like to come to terms with this. I know I can't change her, or talk her out of it, and nor should I (though when I first found out that was my immediate reaction). But I feel sick to my stomach thinking of this girl, with whom I grew up, once so innocent and wonderful, getting stoned.
Are there any other people my age who have successfully dealt with this issue? What should I do?
I have always been against recreational drug use. I realise my views are archaic and that I'm in the minority for people my age (early 20s). My views are the product of my past: a family very strictly against drugs, my time volunteering in a rehabilitation center, and maintaining close friends with similar views.
Despite that, I consider myself quite liberal - I've always believed that it is the choice of the individual, regardless of whether I personally believe it is right or wrong.
However, it really hit home recently one of the close friends who *used* to share my opinion started taking drugs and immediately reversed her ideals. When I found out I felt upset and betrayed. I felt that she had sold out her values. It was a real slap in the face. I'm also concerned about her wellbeing (she's on sertraline) but I know that the health risks are minimal to none (she took cannabis).
I'd like to come to terms with this. I know I can't change her, or talk her out of it, and nor should I (though when I first found out that was my immediate reaction). But I feel sick to my stomach thinking of this girl, with whom I grew up, once so innocent and wonderful, getting stoned.
Are there any other people my age who have successfully dealt with this issue? What should I do?
ATBH is right. Pot's not really something worth worrying over.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:09 AM on September 10, 2006
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:09 AM on September 10, 2006
Actually, I was in the position of your friend. Even though I moved to Poland - where vodka is king - when I was 15, I didn't drink in my teens, I didn't drink in my early 20s... I could pretty much count the number of times I drank before I was 27 on one hand.
When I started socially drinking I realized that I was wrong in not drinking before. The positive aspects of social drinking, for me, far outweigh the negative aspects of it. I didn't even mind getting off the high-horse not drinking allowed me to be on. I sort of realized that this is it, this is my life, and having a couple drinks now and then doesn't make me a worse person and is actually quite enjoyable and makes me more social. Not necessarily more enjoyable to be with, but more outgoing.
At the end of it all, nobody's going to give you or your friend bonus points for not having a drink or not toking up. If your friend enjoys it and uses it responsibly, more power to her.
posted by jedrek at 4:22 AM on September 10, 2006
When I started socially drinking I realized that I was wrong in not drinking before. The positive aspects of social drinking, for me, far outweigh the negative aspects of it. I didn't even mind getting off the high-horse not drinking allowed me to be on. I sort of realized that this is it, this is my life, and having a couple drinks now and then doesn't make me a worse person and is actually quite enjoyable and makes me more social. Not necessarily more enjoyable to be with, but more outgoing.
At the end of it all, nobody's going to give you or your friend bonus points for not having a drink or not toking up. If your friend enjoys it and uses it responsibly, more power to her.
posted by jedrek at 4:22 AM on September 10, 2006
Coming from someone who can relate (i'm 22 and used to be very anti-marijuana), try taking a step back and reexamine WHY you are against recreational smoking. You yourself said that you know the "health risks are minimal to none." Consider sociatal programming and the social taboo that is connected with cannabis. Doing research on the web (there are plenty of good, non-biased sites), keeping an open mind, and discussing marijuana with smokers made me realize my beliefs were not based upon solid facts.
Be happy that she is not using "hard" drugs. But do be concerned if she is stoned 24/7 (effecting her work, school, etc..) As for you feeling betrayed, you need to realize that she is a young individual and her views can change.
posted by atmu at 4:25 AM on September 10, 2006
Be happy that she is not using "hard" drugs. But do be concerned if she is stoned 24/7 (effecting her work, school, etc..) As for you feeling betrayed, you need to realize that she is a young individual and her views can change.
posted by atmu at 4:25 AM on September 10, 2006
Well, like you said, it's the choice of the individual. Don't take it as a slap in the face.
posted by Chessbum at 4:31 AM on September 10, 2006
posted by Chessbum at 4:31 AM on September 10, 2006
Best answer: Well there seems to be two different contentions at work here.
Firstly, you seem to be under the impression that one can owe something to an idea. The relationship people have with ideas and opinions are not like those they have with their spouses or friends – you cannot betray an idea by turning your back on it. Similarly other people have no right to demand that you continue to ascribe to an idea that they also ascribe to – even if by sharing that idea you both derive some mutually beneficial bond. In this case your friend has not wronged you in any way by changing her opinion. I’m sorry if I sound blunt it’s perhaps a little controlling to become resentful of a friend simply because they have changed one of their beliefs that they previously shared with you (what that belief is notwithstanding) however passionately you both held it.
Secondly you seem, at least to some degree, of the opinion that drugs are bad! Your friend is no longer “innocent” now that she is experimenting with them. When you say “I've always believed that it is the choice of the individual, regardless of whether I personally believe it is right or wrong” I guess what you mean is whether you find it virtuous or personally desirable – as I doubt you believe what you consider right and wrong to be detached from any rationally grounded ethical framework. Unless you have already, you would need to rigoursly challenge your beliefs on this issue and determine whether or not they are strictly rational. If you find that what your friend is doing is indeed wrong then you have good reason to think less of her – but you don’t simply on the grounds that she has somehow betrayed you by deviating from a shared idea.
posted by ed\26h at 4:38 AM on September 10, 2006 [4 favorites]
Firstly, you seem to be under the impression that one can owe something to an idea. The relationship people have with ideas and opinions are not like those they have with their spouses or friends – you cannot betray an idea by turning your back on it. Similarly other people have no right to demand that you continue to ascribe to an idea that they also ascribe to – even if by sharing that idea you both derive some mutually beneficial bond. In this case your friend has not wronged you in any way by changing her opinion. I’m sorry if I sound blunt it’s perhaps a little controlling to become resentful of a friend simply because they have changed one of their beliefs that they previously shared with you (what that belief is notwithstanding) however passionately you both held it.
Secondly you seem, at least to some degree, of the opinion that drugs are bad! Your friend is no longer “innocent” now that she is experimenting with them. When you say “I've always believed that it is the choice of the individual, regardless of whether I personally believe it is right or wrong” I guess what you mean is whether you find it virtuous or personally desirable – as I doubt you believe what you consider right and wrong to be detached from any rationally grounded ethical framework. Unless you have already, you would need to rigoursly challenge your beliefs on this issue and determine whether or not they are strictly rational. If you find that what your friend is doing is indeed wrong then you have good reason to think less of her – but you don’t simply on the grounds that she has somehow betrayed you by deviating from a shared idea.
posted by ed\26h at 4:38 AM on September 10, 2006 [4 favorites]
My 20s were a time when I reexamined my attitudes toward many things and took on more logical approaches than my family gave me. I went from abhoring all drugs, to experimenting with marijuana and alcohol - to now - I haven't touch dope in about 10 years, and I rarely drink. But it's my choice, not something stuck on me by a society that doesn't share my views.
I found that many of my opinions were up for rethinking when I asked - why? Why shouldn't we smoke dope? What's the historical experience? Why should we remain virgins until marriage? Why should we have children?
So, however, for you, this might not be a satisfactory option. Kudos to you for realising you cannot change your friend, you can only affect your own thoughts and behaviour. I understand that a number of people very strongly live by the saying "hate the sin, love the sinner." Perhaps you can look at that approach.
Perhaps you could ask her what's changed, and why she thinks it's now okay. The level of difficulty with this one is to come across as not being a pompous prat trying to lead her to change her mind. If you genuinely are interested in her opinion, maybe it will help you to understand why, and that will make it easier for you to accept.
Lastly, and this I don't recommend, because it's unlikely to do anyone any good, you could try to change her mind.
posted by b33j at 4:43 AM on September 10, 2006
I found that many of my opinions were up for rethinking when I asked - why? Why shouldn't we smoke dope? What's the historical experience? Why should we remain virgins until marriage? Why should we have children?
So, however, for you, this might not be a satisfactory option. Kudos to you for realising you cannot change your friend, you can only affect your own thoughts and behaviour. I understand that a number of people very strongly live by the saying "hate the sin, love the sinner." Perhaps you can look at that approach.
Perhaps you could ask her what's changed, and why she thinks it's now okay. The level of difficulty with this one is to come across as not being a pompous prat trying to lead her to change her mind. If you genuinely are interested in her opinion, maybe it will help you to understand why, and that will make it easier for you to accept.
Lastly, and this I don't recommend, because it's unlikely to do anyone any good, you could try to change her mind.
posted by b33j at 4:43 AM on September 10, 2006
You know, I can't help but wonder if this isn't a case of you been conditioned to look down on people who take recreational drugs?
My advice would be to lighten up. You're hurt because someone close to you has chosen to disregard your opinion and go their own way.
Plus being in your early twenties still is a period of great personal discovery. Time will tell if she is going all crunchy, towards addiction or just passing through a phase. Hell, you could change your opinion as well and be passing the bong to her in the future.
posted by Funmonkey1 at 4:46 AM on September 10, 2006
My advice would be to lighten up. You're hurt because someone close to you has chosen to disregard your opinion and go their own way.
Plus being in your early twenties still is a period of great personal discovery. Time will tell if she is going all crunchy, towards addiction or just passing through a phase. Hell, you could change your opinion as well and be passing the bong to her in the future.
posted by Funmonkey1 at 4:46 AM on September 10, 2006
Response by poster: thanks ed\26h, i think you've hit the issue. it is less about the drugs than it is the schism in our opinions, and my reaction. the fact that it is regarding an issue as controversial as recreational drug use is almost certainly secondary to my own issues of resent and control. i'm trying to change myself, and this question should be evidence of that!
i of course oversimplified with "right and wrong". i really *do* believe that the individual has every right to choose their own actions. *my* choice is to avoid drugs, an opinion formed as a result of research and personal experiences. i typically don't (and know i shouldn't) think less of anyone who believes any differently, and has formed their own opinion. but unfortunately in her case i do, and that is the problem i need to get past.
posted by slea at 4:52 AM on September 10, 2006
i of course oversimplified with "right and wrong". i really *do* believe that the individual has every right to choose their own actions. *my* choice is to avoid drugs, an opinion formed as a result of research and personal experiences. i typically don't (and know i shouldn't) think less of anyone who believes any differently, and has formed their own opinion. but unfortunately in her case i do, and that is the problem i need to get past.
posted by slea at 4:52 AM on September 10, 2006
Response by poster: and thank you to all other commenters so far. i had half-expected "just get over it" responses - all of thse responses have been truly enlightening.
posted by slea at 4:56 AM on September 10, 2006
posted by slea at 4:56 AM on September 10, 2006
Ypu're in the minority, but your views aren't archaic. None of the neurologists I work with use illegal drugs, and neither do I. Furthermore, they're all thoughtful, intelligent, compassionate people - people you'd want around if you were designing an ideal society. None of them are Puritans, zealots, or quick to judge.
Being quick to judge is easy, especially when there's a lot of inflammatory rhetoric going around. If your friend's taking sertraline, she's probably depressed or anxious. Who knows what's really going on in her life - her inner life, where it counts?
Well, the people who listen to her do. As hard as it is, you should probably sit down with your friend for some serious listening time. She talks, you listen.
Whatever it is that's going on with her - and I'd not be too quick to assume that I knew what it was - judging her harshly for it isn't going to help. And you're her friend, right, not her parole officer - right? Here's another old-fashioned idea: I think real friendship is something that's bigger than a few neurotransmitters or their chemical mimics. Give it a chance to work.
posted by ikkyu2 at 5:00 AM on September 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
Being quick to judge is easy, especially when there's a lot of inflammatory rhetoric going around. If your friend's taking sertraline, she's probably depressed or anxious. Who knows what's really going on in her life - her inner life, where it counts?
Well, the people who listen to her do. As hard as it is, you should probably sit down with your friend for some serious listening time. She talks, you listen.
Whatever it is that's going on with her - and I'd not be too quick to assume that I knew what it was - judging her harshly for it isn't going to help. And you're her friend, right, not her parole officer - right? Here's another old-fashioned idea: I think real friendship is something that's bigger than a few neurotransmitters or their chemical mimics. Give it a chance to work.
posted by ikkyu2 at 5:00 AM on September 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
I agree with most of what the previous posters have said, but I would be quite hesitant to suggest the whole pot-as-exception to "drugs are bad" thing. There is no bright dividing line between different drugs, and saying that those drugs are bad while my drug is okay is no different from what the folks that think all drugs, including pot, should be illegal, believe.
posted by Justinian at 5:04 AM on September 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 5:04 AM on September 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
Justinian, I beg to differ with you. Is not alcohol a readily available legal drug that is addictive and can cause severe damage much the same way other substances are deemed illegal and "bad"? Depends on the definition of drug.
The all drugs are bad crowd suffer the same malady as those that believe the "War on Drugs" or the "War on Terrorism" will been won and the USA will be declared victorious.
posted by Funmonkey1 at 5:22 AM on September 10, 2006
The all drugs are bad crowd suffer the same malady as those that believe the "War on Drugs" or the "War on Terrorism" will been won and the USA will be declared victorious.
posted by Funmonkey1 at 5:22 AM on September 10, 2006
I think the key here is that you consider your friend's toking up "a slap in the face" to you personally. It isn't. As you get older, you'll find your friends are going to explore the world and do stuff you don't approve of and you will have to deal with that. But it's not a personal affront to you.
My own benchmark is whether they are hurting other people, which in the end I can't put up with, but you'll have to find your own bright line.
posted by CunningLinguist at 6:30 AM on September 10, 2006
My own benchmark is whether they are hurting other people, which in the end I can't put up with, but you'll have to find your own bright line.
posted by CunningLinguist at 6:30 AM on September 10, 2006
Your advice here is to take a balanced, thoughtful approach. I'd agree and recommend among all the don't worry be happy and get over yourself and think about her stuff that you remember your experience working in the rehab center. Drugs like pot and alcohol in themselves don't harm people but there are people and situations where they can be part of extremely self-destructive ways of dealing with the world.
Perhaps this is a more productive way to examine your feelings about your friend: you know some folks can 'handle' or keep these drugs at arms length while maintaining an otherwise healthy life, and you also know there are millions who demonstrably can't. Forget about betrayal of values or statistics or legal issues for the moment and think about her very specifically, which of these two clubs do you think she's going to belong to, and as a friend what can you do to help her no matter what?
posted by scheptech at 7:30 AM on September 10, 2006
Perhaps this is a more productive way to examine your feelings about your friend: you know some folks can 'handle' or keep these drugs at arms length while maintaining an otherwise healthy life, and you also know there are millions who demonstrably can't. Forget about betrayal of values or statistics or legal issues for the moment and think about her very specifically, which of these two clubs do you think she's going to belong to, and as a friend what can you do to help her no matter what?
posted by scheptech at 7:30 AM on September 10, 2006
I had a few years of the whole, "Oh wow! Weed is awesome! Everyone should do this and if they don't they're missing out!" once I broke through my own mental barriers about it. And then I saw how it was effecting me. Slowing me down, making me feel all "used up" and worn. I saw how the people I hung out with were turning into true wastoids. (Many of them moving up the drug severity ladder. It takes a truly addictive personality to be pot dependent.)
Now if a friend of mine during that time had wanted to have a serious talk about my reversal of opinion from my teenage "drugs ruined my childhood and I hate them" stance, I would have been insecure enough to push them away, argue with them, think about them as someone who just didn't "get it."
However, if someone was supportive, told me they didn't want to be around me on drugs, but didn't hassle me for using them, I would have stayed friends with them and possibly seen them as alternative to what I was into, especially when it turned out to be not so cool.
It's like someone who gets into a bad relationship. You can choose not to support it but still be there for your friend, and if it gets out of hand/dangerous, you can try to help, but clucking in disapproval will just serve to cement your friend's new stance and push her away.
posted by Gucky at 8:26 AM on September 10, 2006
Now if a friend of mine during that time had wanted to have a serious talk about my reversal of opinion from my teenage "drugs ruined my childhood and I hate them" stance, I would have been insecure enough to push them away, argue with them, think about them as someone who just didn't "get it."
However, if someone was supportive, told me they didn't want to be around me on drugs, but didn't hassle me for using them, I would have stayed friends with them and possibly seen them as alternative to what I was into, especially when it turned out to be not so cool.
It's like someone who gets into a bad relationship. You can choose not to support it but still be there for your friend, and if it gets out of hand/dangerous, you can try to help, but clucking in disapproval will just serve to cement your friend's new stance and push her away.
posted by Gucky at 8:26 AM on September 10, 2006
But I feel sick to my stomach thinking of this girl, with whom I grew up, once so innocent and wonderful, getting stoned.
Is it that you're uncomfortable with the idea of intoxication no matter what the source? If so, why? What about people who use other methods to alter their mental states -- meditation, exercise, religion...?
I can sympathize with your distress at thinking of your friend stoned. There's something a little scary about someone you love taking something that changes who they are, even if it's just for a little while. It's like they are deliberately putting a wall between the two of you, and that can hurt.
posted by footnote at 8:40 AM on September 10, 2006
Is it that you're uncomfortable with the idea of intoxication no matter what the source? If so, why? What about people who use other methods to alter their mental states -- meditation, exercise, religion...?
I can sympathize with your distress at thinking of your friend stoned. There's something a little scary about someone you love taking something that changes who they are, even if it's just for a little while. It's like they are deliberately putting a wall between the two of you, and that can hurt.
posted by footnote at 8:40 AM on September 10, 2006
None of the neurologists I work with use illegal drugs, and neither do I.
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:00 AM EST on September 10 [+fave] [!]
Ikkyu2 - do you guys drink? If so, do you have some sort of scientific reason for not smoking pot, or is it just a matter of illegality?
posted by footnote at 8:47 AM on September 10, 2006
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:00 AM EST on September 10 [+fave] [!]
Ikkyu2 - do you guys drink? If so, do you have some sort of scientific reason for not smoking pot, or is it just a matter of illegality?
posted by footnote at 8:47 AM on September 10, 2006
She'll stop, no one smokes after like ... 28 or so. I mean sure people do but they are the true lovers of the plant. She'll probably want to do everything high for the experience for a little while here so be prepared for that. Unfortunately weed is not a big deal, so if you start making a big deal about it she'll think of you as backwards and go "What is she so worried about?" So don't do that. That's pretty much all I have that wasn't said above. Also don't be offended if say, on an odd night her and her buddies get high, Milo & Otis and don't invite you. It's not personal, it's a high thing.
posted by geoff. at 9:16 AM on September 10, 2006
posted by geoff. at 9:16 AM on September 10, 2006
She'll stop, no one smokes after like ... 28 or so.
The better translation of this is "...no one smakers after like... they have kids." I know plenty of people that smoke after 28.
I am not one of them, however.
I stopped at 18 after a single particularly tainted smoking experience (I continued smoking cigarettes for seven more years, though). And I had only ever smoke the stuff a few times. It has a lot to do with the person as well. My use was only ever social and wholly unenjoyable nearly every time, so it only took a small bad experience to convince me otherwise.
But different people do different things, and people you grow up with might not be people you necessarily want to be around as an adult anyway.
Plus, old chestnut here, people change. :)
posted by smallerdemon at 9:54 AM on September 10, 2006
The better translation of this is "...no one smakers after like... they have kids." I know plenty of people that smoke after 28.
I am not one of them, however.
I stopped at 18 after a single particularly tainted smoking experience (I continued smoking cigarettes for seven more years, though). And I had only ever smoke the stuff a few times. It has a lot to do with the person as well. My use was only ever social and wholly unenjoyable nearly every time, so it only took a small bad experience to convince me otherwise.
But different people do different things, and people you grow up with might not be people you necessarily want to be around as an adult anyway.
Plus, old chestnut here, people change. :)
posted by smallerdemon at 9:54 AM on September 10, 2006
There seems to be this odd notion that drug use is popular and accepted (in the US). I'll submit to you that this notion has developed due to
1)the fact that even 10% (who smoke or use) of a large population, works out to a large absolute number.
2)The deviants may be prominent, thus you giving them a larger "mindshare" than the non-using masses who blend in the background.
3)maybe you hang in a circle, where use is normal.
To back this up, consider these numbers from the latest annual Monitoring the Future survey, where 15,000 high school seniors are surveyed.
The question asked is, "Do you disapprove of people (who are 18 or older) doing each of the following?". Results are from 2005. Number is of those answering 'Yes'.
Try marijuana once or twice - 55.0%
Smoke marijuana occasionally - 67.8%
Smoke marijuana regularly - 82.0%
And just to include a few others,
Try MDMA (ecstasy) once or twice - 88.4%
Try cocaine powder once or twice - 83.2%
Try crack once or twice - 86.7%
Try heroin once or twice - 94.3%
Try one or two drinks of an alcoholic beverage - 26.4%
Have five or more drinks once or twice each weekend - 66.5%
So, I would say that your views aren't quite that 'archaic'. With all due respect, you may have taken in the, IMHO, nonsense, that we live in a "pro-drug popular culture", initiated and passed on, by the prohibitionist establishment, seeking to increase their advertising and other budgets, but moreover, their power.
posted by daksya at 10:24 AM on September 10, 2006
1)the fact that even 10% (who smoke or use) of a large population, works out to a large absolute number.
2)The deviants may be prominent, thus you giving them a larger "mindshare" than the non-using masses who blend in the background.
3)maybe you hang in a circle, where use is normal.
To back this up, consider these numbers from the latest annual Monitoring the Future survey, where 15,000 high school seniors are surveyed.
The question asked is, "Do you disapprove of people (who are 18 or older) doing each of the following?". Results are from 2005. Number is of those answering 'Yes'.
Try marijuana once or twice - 55.0%
Smoke marijuana occasionally - 67.8%
Smoke marijuana regularly - 82.0%
And just to include a few others,
Try MDMA (ecstasy) once or twice - 88.4%
Try cocaine powder once or twice - 83.2%
Try crack once or twice - 86.7%
Try heroin once or twice - 94.3%
Try one or two drinks of an alcoholic beverage - 26.4%
Have five or more drinks once or twice each weekend - 66.5%
So, I would say that your views aren't quite that 'archaic'. With all due respect, you may have taken in the, IMHO, nonsense, that we live in a "pro-drug popular culture", initiated and passed on, by the prohibitionist establishment, seeking to increase their advertising and other budgets, but moreover, their power.
posted by daksya at 10:24 AM on September 10, 2006
According to data from the 2004 National Household Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) --posted by ludwig_van at 12:12 PM on September 10, 2006
110 million Americans age 12 or older (46% of the population) reported illicit drug use at least once in their lifetime. 15% reported use of a drug within the past year.
8% reported use of a drug within the past month.
"My views are the product of my past: a family very strictly against drugs, my time volunteering in a rehabilitation center, and maintaining close friends with similar views."
I'd be interested to learn which of those experiences has been the most influential for you. You've kept yourself isolated from drug users, albeit the one experience, how did you spend the time at the rehab center? Did you look at the people there are drug losers, people damaged and scarred beyond recognition by their activities (or whatever else your conditioned view of drug users might lead you to expect)? Did you get to know them?
While I do not expect or believe there is but one reasonable conclusion: my experience is that people working with addiction prone groups often view drug users as human beings, deserving of respect and sovereign in themselves.
"When I found out I felt upset and betrayed. [. . .] It was a real slap in the face."
Why does this have to be about you? Making it so, as you have, seems to cause you a great deal of distress. Perhaps this is how it must go for you, but it seems like a tough road to tow.
"But I feel sick to my stomach thinking of this girl, with whom I grew up, once so innocent and wonderful, getting stoned."
Who stole her innocence? Who stole her wonderfulness?
I would imagine that in spite of having smoked marijuana she feels more or less like the same person. It's also probably fair to say your view of her has changed, you've said as much; it's important to note that the views of others reflect themselves in some part in our views of ourselves.
One of the greatest tragedies of drug use is many peoples responses to it. People often determine a person who has used drugs is certain to use drugs again and again, and people superimpose this veneer of stereotype over them, and in doing so reinforce these behaviours by yielding expectation.
Do your friend a favor, and do not expect her to do a thing or to be a thing. Do not treat her as if she is no longer innocent and wonderful, for in doing so you ensure both, whether she presently has either attribute. Work to know her as a complex human, not as an ideal or as grotesque.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 12:31 PM on September 10, 2006
I'd be interested to learn which of those experiences has been the most influential for you. You've kept yourself isolated from drug users, albeit the one experience, how did you spend the time at the rehab center? Did you look at the people there are drug losers, people damaged and scarred beyond recognition by their activities (or whatever else your conditioned view of drug users might lead you to expect)? Did you get to know them?
While I do not expect or believe there is but one reasonable conclusion: my experience is that people working with addiction prone groups often view drug users as human beings, deserving of respect and sovereign in themselves.
"When I found out I felt upset and betrayed. [. . .] It was a real slap in the face."
Why does this have to be about you? Making it so, as you have, seems to cause you a great deal of distress. Perhaps this is how it must go for you, but it seems like a tough road to tow.
"But I feel sick to my stomach thinking of this girl, with whom I grew up, once so innocent and wonderful, getting stoned."
Who stole her innocence? Who stole her wonderfulness?
I would imagine that in spite of having smoked marijuana she feels more or less like the same person. It's also probably fair to say your view of her has changed, you've said as much; it's important to note that the views of others reflect themselves in some part in our views of ourselves.
One of the greatest tragedies of drug use is many peoples responses to it. People often determine a person who has used drugs is certain to use drugs again and again, and people superimpose this veneer of stereotype over them, and in doing so reinforce these behaviours by yielding expectation.
Do your friend a favor, and do not expect her to do a thing or to be a thing. Do not treat her as if she is no longer innocent and wonderful, for in doing so you ensure both, whether she presently has either attribute. Work to know her as a complex human, not as an ideal or as grotesque.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 12:31 PM on September 10, 2006
It was noted upthread that many countries take a relaxed view of marijuana -- tolerating it to a point shy of legalization in many cases.
What's more, in many states in the US, marijuana has a decriminalized status, and weed offences are treated as violations, rather than misdemeanors.
Whatever your take on our current political climate -- Republican or Democratic -- you must agree that a large number of our federal laws are out of sync with the world -- or even many American states.
Try on this perspective for size. Also, try on the actual substance -- cannabis -- for size. To fully emphasize with your friend, why not spark up a bowl? It won't bite.
posted by Gordion Knott at 1:53 PM on September 10, 2006
What's more, in many states in the US, marijuana has a decriminalized status, and weed offences are treated as violations, rather than misdemeanors.
Whatever your take on our current political climate -- Republican or Democratic -- you must agree that a large number of our federal laws are out of sync with the world -- or even many American states.
Try on this perspective for size. Also, try on the actual substance -- cannabis -- for size. To fully emphasize with your friend, why not spark up a bowl? It won't bite.
posted by Gordion Knott at 1:53 PM on September 10, 2006
I'm as libertarian as they come on the subject of recreational pharmaceuticals, but even I am not sure that "just smoke a bowl" is the best advice for someone grappling with their ingrained "drugs are bad, mmmkay?" responses!
posted by Justinian at 1:59 PM on September 10, 2006
posted by Justinian at 1:59 PM on September 10, 2006
If you don't want to lose your friend I would live and let live. Knowing your reasoning is not judgemental will make your arguments more convincing anyway.
posted by xammerboy at 2:40 PM on September 10, 2006
posted by xammerboy at 2:40 PM on September 10, 2006
I'm as libertarian as they come on the subject of recreational pharmaceuticals, but even I am not sure that "just smoke a bowl" is the best advice for someone grappling with their ingrained "drugs are bad, mmmkay?" responses!
I don't see why not. It isn't going to hurt.
posted by ludwig_van at 6:48 PM on September 10, 2006
I don't see why not. It isn't going to hurt.
posted by ludwig_van at 6:48 PM on September 10, 2006
Also consider that if you don't change your criteria for innocence and wonderfulness (which to me are pretty much mutually exclusive categories, as far as people are concerned), you are in for a lot of disappointment.
posted by bingo at 7:25 PM on September 10, 2006
posted by bingo at 7:25 PM on September 10, 2006
For what it's worth, you're not the only one grappling with this issue, and though this thread has been helpful for me (and you), there's no magic bullet for this. You just have to come to grips with it one way or another.
Also, don't "spark up a bowl", despite the brillant advice you got above.
posted by hoborg at 11:21 PM on September 10, 2006
Also, don't "spark up a bowl", despite the brillant advice you got above.
posted by hoborg at 11:21 PM on September 10, 2006
my advice to you would be to turn a blind eye to experimental or occasional dope smoking, it won't stop her from being the girl you've always known. either that or, well it's not uncommon to shed friends at your age, people just go different ways.
get back to us when she is on heroin or meth, or when she does nothing but smoke dope all day every day, that would definitely be a problem. as it is, your problem is an internal conflict of thinking of yourself as liberal, and reacting in a conservative way.
posted by Tixylix at 11:57 PM on September 10, 2006
get back to us when she is on heroin or meth, or when she does nothing but smoke dope all day every day, that would definitely be a problem. as it is, your problem is an internal conflict of thinking of yourself as liberal, and reacting in a conservative way.
posted by Tixylix at 11:57 PM on September 10, 2006
Response by poster: thanks everyone.
some closure on this: i showed my friend this link, in an effort to reconcile over the issue, and told her how i honestly felt. she laughed and mocked me, then sent the link to HER friends in an effort to mock me further.
we aren't friends any more, but i can sleep soundly knowing i tried, and that i've learned to be more open minded on this issue.
posted by slea at 7:45 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
some closure on this: i showed my friend this link, in an effort to reconcile over the issue, and told her how i honestly felt. she laughed and mocked me, then sent the link to HER friends in an effort to mock me further.
we aren't friends any more, but i can sleep soundly knowing i tried, and that i've learned to be more open minded on this issue.
posted by slea at 7:45 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
I'm with those who say get modern here. Alcohol is a far worse drug than pot, and does much more harm societally and individually. Marijuana is a mind-expanding, not self-annihilating, drug, when used responsibly. And it has a fine safety record compared to alcohol, or for that matter to fatty foods. Your attidue is moralistic and judgmental, not liberal.
If you don't like your friend's drug use, assuming it's responsible and doesn't harm others, that's your darn problem. Not hers.
posted by fourcheesemac at 10:02 AM on September 11, 2006
If you don't like your friend's drug use, assuming it's responsible and doesn't harm others, that's your darn problem. Not hers.
posted by fourcheesemac at 10:02 AM on September 11, 2006
Man. Showing her this link went against a lot of the advice in the thread, huh.
posted by dead_ at 12:02 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by dead_ at 12:02 PM on September 11, 2006
Yeah, nobody said you should do that.
posted by ludwig_van at 12:14 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by ludwig_van at 12:14 PM on September 11, 2006
Bad idea, sorry. Though in a selfish way I have to say this is probably the first time my prediction came out nearly exactly how I thought it would:
Unfortunately weed is not a big deal, so if you start making a big deal about it she'll think of you as backwards and go "What is she so worried about?" So don't do that.
So silver lining for some of us.
posted by geoff. at 1:36 PM on September 11, 2006
Unfortunately weed is not a big deal, so if you start making a big deal about it she'll think of you as backwards and go "What is she so worried about?" So don't do that.
So silver lining for some of us.
posted by geoff. at 1:36 PM on September 11, 2006
Irrespective of what you were told, if that’s what she did, irrespective of the drugs issue, I doubt you’ve lost a particularly valuable friendship. In showing her the link it looks like you’ve offered an enviable level of openness. If she’s chosen to mock you – then that’s pretty unfortunate. Perhaps she’s just made a mistake though; it’s hard to tell why she’s done so.
posted by ed\26h at 1:36 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by ed\26h at 1:36 PM on September 11, 2006
You showed your friend a letter you wrote -- to a bunch of strangers, mind you -- where you said that you felt she had "sold out her values" and was "once so innocent and wonderful" but no longer is, etc. Those are pretty negative and embarrassing things to say about a friend, especially to a third party rather than the friend's face, so I'm not surprised that she mocked you in return. To her, the mocking probably seems defensive rather than offensive, if you see what I mean.
I had some friends who once staged an intervention-style ("vorfeed, we need to have a talk") conversation because they thought that I swear too much. For any matter short of life and death, that sort of disapproving, how-could-you attitude is the kiss of death for a friendship -- to your friend, it probably seems like a lack of respect for her choices, and thus a lack of respect for her as a person. I can tell you that the swearing discussion was the last time I thought of those people as true friends, though we'd been pretty close before. I felt really betrayed, because my friends had made a huge deal of something that ought to be just plain unimportant between friends, or at the very least not important enough to risk a friendship over. I still swear as much as I ever did, and I mocked the hell out of my former friends in subsequent years, so I can understand where your friend is coming from.
posted by vorfeed at 2:01 PM on September 11, 2006
I had some friends who once staged an intervention-style ("vorfeed, we need to have a talk") conversation because they thought that I swear too much. For any matter short of life and death, that sort of disapproving, how-could-you attitude is the kiss of death for a friendship -- to your friend, it probably seems like a lack of respect for her choices, and thus a lack of respect for her as a person. I can tell you that the swearing discussion was the last time I thought of those people as true friends, though we'd been pretty close before. I felt really betrayed, because my friends had made a huge deal of something that ought to be just plain unimportant between friends, or at the very least not important enough to risk a friendship over. I still swear as much as I ever did, and I mocked the hell out of my former friends in subsequent years, so I can understand where your friend is coming from.
posted by vorfeed at 2:01 PM on September 11, 2006
It takes guts to do what you did, and you were honest with yourself and her. That's really all that matters. I know it probably still stings, but for what it's worth, I think you did the right thing by bringing it up and confronting it.
posted by hoborg at 6:02 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by hoborg at 6:02 PM on September 11, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
Does it bother you to think of your friend having a few drinks? In many ways alcohol is a lot worse than marijuana. I'm not saying pot is completely safe or good for you, but I'd rather hang out with stoners than with drunken idiots or people who chain-smoke tobacco cigarettes. And it's legal or practically so in large parts of the world.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 4:04 AM on September 10, 2006 [2 favorites]