Final Cut Pro frame rates for 24p advanced
June 17, 2006 7:13 PM Subscribe
If I shot in 24p advanced mode on a Panasonic DVX-100, what is the correct frame rate that Final Cut Pro should be capturing?
Last week I shot about 3 hours worth of MiniDV footage, on two separate DVX-100s, both set to 24p advanced mode. I spent the last two days capturing all the footage into FCP Studio, and when I sat down to do some rough editing tonight I noticed I had to render some clips and not others.
Closer examination of the clip information revealed that tapes 1 and 2 had been captured at 29.97fps, and tape 3 had been captured at 23.98fps. It's the 23.98 clips that need rendering in my timeline...but some searching around the web leads me to believe that 23.98 is the correct frame rate.
So: Is 23.98fps what I want? Which tapes should I recapture? And is there a way to recapture without having to start a new project and re-log everything?
Last week I shot about 3 hours worth of MiniDV footage, on two separate DVX-100s, both set to 24p advanced mode. I spent the last two days capturing all the footage into FCP Studio, and when I sat down to do some rough editing tonight I noticed I had to render some clips and not others.
Closer examination of the clip information revealed that tapes 1 and 2 had been captured at 29.97fps, and tape 3 had been captured at 23.98fps. It's the 23.98 clips that need rendering in my timeline...but some searching around the web leads me to believe that 23.98 is the correct frame rate.
So: Is 23.98fps what I want? Which tapes should I recapture? And is there a way to recapture without having to start a new project and re-log everything?
The DVX-100 records at 29.97 fps, even in 24p mode. If you select the 23.97 capture mode FCP has to convert the video back to 24p, hence rendering being required (this conversion is relatively lossless).
Which mode you want to use depends on your output device. If you're going distribute stuff as 24p then use the 23.97 mode. If you're distributing it as normal video then either mode is acceptable.
posted by cillit bang at 7:41 PM on June 17, 2006
Which mode you want to use depends on your output device. If you're going distribute stuff as 24p then use the 23.97 mode. If you're distributing it as normal video then either mode is acceptable.
posted by cillit bang at 7:41 PM on June 17, 2006
Response by poster: Okay, I just did three test captures from each of the tapes, with my FCP settings all on 24p/23.98.
Tape 3 consistently captures at 23.98.
Tape 2 consistently captures at 29.97.
Tape one is a mix of both frame rates. (23 at the start, 29 at the end.)
Can I force FCP to capture the stuff that's coming in as 23.98 to instead come in at 29.97? (This is my first foray into 24p, and it's not going well so far. Thanks for the help.)
posted by ArsncHeart at 8:06 PM on June 17, 2006
Tape 3 consistently captures at 23.98.
Tape 2 consistently captures at 29.97.
Tape one is a mix of both frame rates. (23 at the start, 29 at the end.)
Can I force FCP to capture the stuff that's coming in as 23.98 to instead come in at 29.97? (This is my first foray into 24p, and it's not going well so far. Thanks for the help.)
posted by ArsncHeart at 8:06 PM on June 17, 2006
I wasn't familiar with the DVX100 modes but cillit bang is exactly right. There is a good explanation here:
http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording
24p is basically a 2:3 pulldown mode which stuffs a 23.97 fps capture into a 29.97 format.
Whatever output framerate you choose it's probably best to capture at the native framerate of the camera, so you should recapture the tape which was captured at 23.98.
posted by unSane at 8:07 PM on June 17, 2006
http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording
24p is basically a 2:3 pulldown mode which stuffs a 23.97 fps capture into a 29.97 format.
Whatever output framerate you choose it's probably best to capture at the native framerate of the camera, so you should recapture the tape which was captured at 23.98.
posted by unSane at 8:07 PM on June 17, 2006
Best answer: Realistically, you have a bit of a mess on your hands. Reason? Youv'e captured some clips at 30 and some at 24.
You can use cinema tools to add/remove pulldown for the clips you've already captured.
Everything was stored on tape at 30fps...the question is, what do you want to capture it at?
The advantage of working at 24fps (in FCP), is the cadence in compression for DVD (or even web) is less frames = higher data rate. The disadvantage @24p is that you can't preview on an NTSC monitor (as the frame rate is different)
(I'm not talking about the merits of shooting 24fps...merely working inside of fcp.)
Basically you'd do this:
Decide if you want to work at 30fps (which everything is stored on the tape) or work at 24fps.
FCP only can playback footage at the framerate of the sequence in RT.
So, the question is: do you want to work at 24 (23.97) fps? Or work at 30 (and just have the 24fps 'look)
If you decide to work at 30...take the clips you have and conver them using cinema tools. Or vice versa if you decide to work at 24.
Once you have all the footage in the same format, make sure that you use this as your easy setup/sequence type.
I'd self link to finalcutpronews.com, but I'm still struggling to get the search features right there.
posted by filmgeek at 8:24 PM on June 17, 2006
You can use cinema tools to add/remove pulldown for the clips you've already captured.
Everything was stored on tape at 30fps...the question is, what do you want to capture it at?
The advantage of working at 24fps (in FCP), is the cadence in compression for DVD (or even web) is less frames = higher data rate. The disadvantage @24p is that you can't preview on an NTSC monitor (as the frame rate is different)
(I'm not talking about the merits of shooting 24fps...merely working inside of fcp.)
Basically you'd do this:
Decide if you want to work at 30fps (which everything is stored on the tape) or work at 24fps.
FCP only can playback footage at the framerate of the sequence in RT.
So, the question is: do you want to work at 24 (23.97) fps? Or work at 30 (and just have the 24fps 'look)
If you decide to work at 30...take the clips you have and conver them using cinema tools. Or vice versa if you decide to work at 24.
Once you have all the footage in the same format, make sure that you use this as your easy setup/sequence type.
I'd self link to finalcutpronews.com, but I'm still struggling to get the search features right there.
posted by filmgeek at 8:24 PM on June 17, 2006
P.S. next time you go to 'try something' - test the workflow first....all the way through to dvd creation.
posted by filmgeek at 8:25 PM on June 17, 2006
posted by filmgeek at 8:25 PM on June 17, 2006
Not to confuse you or anything, but just make sure you're using advanced pulldown in FCP when you capture, if you shot in 24p advanced with the ag-dvx100..
posted by provolot at 9:53 PM on June 18, 2006
posted by provolot at 9:53 PM on June 18, 2006
Response by poster: Here's another forum that comes to the same conclusion as filmgeek. As mentioned in that thread, going from 23.98 to 29.97 will wreck your audio. So conform from 29.97 DOWN to 23.98.
posted by ArsncHeart at 7:46 PM on June 20, 2006
posted by ArsncHeart at 7:46 PM on June 20, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
In FCP you can capture it at whatever rate you like without starting a new project. You can mix and match frame rates and formats to your heart's desire. You can also create sequences at whatever frame rate you like.
Just poke around in the capture settings (sorry, don't have FCP on the laptop).
posted by unSane at 7:20 PM on June 17, 2006