Replace windows (no not that Windows)

December 5, 2024 10:24 AM

I live in a 150 year old Philadelphia row home with windows from the 1980s. They very much need to be replaced and I very much know nothing about replacement windows.

Google searches are filled with marketing spam that I don't trust. Please share anything you wish you had known when you replaced your windows, including
— materials to look for or avoid
— brands you like or hate
— advice about working with installers
— features that are worth extra cost

My house and I thank you.

posted by mcduff to Home & Garden (14 answers total)

My first suggestion is to use DuckDuckGo for your search, it eliminates a lot (not all) of the cruft that Google searches have become.
What is it about the windows that makes you say they “very much need to be replaced”? Are they insulated, and seal has failed (they may look foggy or as if moisture in inside the insulated bit)? Are they difficult to open/close? If they were higher quality, they might be repairable.
What kind of windows were installed in the 80’s? If vinyl, then the whole thing should probably be replaced. If it’s a higher quality window, it’s sometimes possible for just the “units” to be replaced (this is the part with the glass in it, but doesn’t include the entire frame and sill assembly).
Your house is old, so my next thing to ask is if you want something that preserves or enhances the architectural integrity of the home.
Regarding materials, here’s what can work well or not:
- Please do not use vinyl. They are cheaper, but eventually succumb to UV degradation and are destined for the dump.
- All wood can work very well, if they are crafted properly (it’s what the original windows on your home were, and they might still be operable had they been restored vs ripped out). This is probably the most expensive option.
- The other popular option is some kind of cladding over a wood core. Ours are aluminum clad outside, and wood (paint grade) in side. It’s a nice look.
I would ask at a local historical society if they have any recommendations, or see if there is a restoration service that might have a manufacture recommendation. Pella and Anderson are two national brands with generally good reputations, but Anderson has some scammy sales techniques, they both also sell a range of windows - in general, avoid the very cheapest option. There may be a largish, more local brand near you. We are in the Pacific Nirthwest, and used Sierra Pacific for our new windows in an addition to our 100-year old house. We wanted them to look like they’d been updated, but not “modern”. SP cost quite a bit less, and the quality has been stellar.
Lastly, I generally would not recommend Lowe’s or Home Depot and their services. That going to be expensive, but cheaply done. If there is a local glass shop that regularly does windows on older home, that would also be worth looking at.
I could go on, but hopefully this helps. Windows are *very* expensive, and you may find you have to replace them over the course of a few years, if there are a lot of them.
One last word- for the love of all that is holy, PLEASE don’t have sliders installed. They won’t look right on the house, and can be come a nightmare to get to open/close properly. Single or double-hung (open from the bottom or both bottom and top, respectively), or casement (open out vertically), awning (open out horizontally from the top) or hopper (open horizontally from the bottom) are the way to go. The latter two work nicely for windows in a bathroom, closet or such, and tend to be smaller.
posted by dbmcd at 10:59 AM on December 5, 2024 [4 favorites]

Get 3 quotes from a local window installer. That’s really it. Dont do a national brand. Check out the home improvement subreddit as well.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:03 AM on December 5, 2024 [2 favorites]

Adding to my post regarding “features that re worth the extra cost”, double-hung windows are delightful, in that when the top and bottom are both open, if you have the possibility of cross breeze or, in your case, an upstairs, a very powerful convection. This current gets going as cooler air from outside rushes in and pushes out the warmer air (upstairs, usually, in older homes). We got so much of that going in our house that front door will slam shut if we don’t have it stopped! If it gets cool enough at night, this can save a lot of energy that might be spent on air conditioning.
posted by dbmcd at 11:07 AM on December 5, 2024 [4 favorites]

I would talk to your neighbors who have done restos first. What did they use?

My NYC pre-war co-op replaced all the building's windows pre-pandemic, and everything is so much more expensive now. We did Kolbe double hung in wood, not aluminum, even though that was pricier. This was a very long process, like over a year of research and getting estimates.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 11:18 AM on December 5, 2024 [3 favorites]

If you live in home that suffers from being hot or cold, don't get aluminum-framed windows. Get vinyl (cheapest) or better. I personally think vinyl frames are fine, but it depends on how picky you are personally. White and black are the cheapest colors - you can get other colors but they will be more expensive. Wood windows are far more expensive.

The cheapest vinyl will be about $450-$500 per window for window cost plus install combined. Wood can be $1000 per window. If this makes your eyes water and you are handy, they are actually pretty easy to install yourself, assuming the stuff under them is in good condition. And windows the product are actually pretty cheap. You are mostly paying for labor.

If the framing/water barriers around them are not in good condition, then expect to play way more.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:36 AM on December 5, 2024

I say don't get aluminum because the aluminum is a direct heat/cold transfer so your glass insulation won't matter if the frame gets hot or cold.

If your house is generally very comfortable with older windows, then aluminum is fine.

If you are expecting to save a bunch on energy costs, well unless your windows are broken and dramatically leaking, don't expect much. There is not nearly as big an actual difference as they advertise.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:42 AM on December 5, 2024

Seconding @MisantropicPainforest: get some quotes and let the window installer companies educate you.
posted by at at 11:46 AM on December 5, 2024

Don’t get wood windows unless they're very well sheltered from the weather and accessible for re-painting. You can get them with vinyl sheathing on the outside and wood on the inside if you really want but be aware of what wood quality you're getting if you hope to have the wood grain visible.
posted by brachiopod at 11:51 AM on December 5, 2024

Do you live in a historic district? Some have restrictions on what you can install.

When I had a 120 YO house we went for metal clad wood windows - they look period appropriate for the house but are more long lived than vinyl. And yes there are good local brands as well as the good national brands like Anderson. Don't go for cheap all vinyl windows - you definitely get what you pay for. dbmcd 's advice is spot on.
posted by leslies at 12:21 PM on December 5, 2024

One thing to be aware of is that "replacement windows" are kind of a separate industry category from just "I'd like to replace my windows". A "replacement window" is meant to be a money-saving measure where the existing window frame is left in place and a new window is installed that attaches to that frame, rather than removing the whole existing window and starting from bare wall. The resultant operable window size and glazing are necessarily smaller than they would be if the windows were actually fully replaced. If you're searching for "replacement windows" a lot of the results are going to be stuff like that, and they're very heavily marketed for savings even by companies like Anderson (I get a physical mailer once a month from them and Pella), so there's a lot of noise. In what I'm assuming is a masonry building, they may not even be much benefit anyway.

Marvin, Pella and Anderson are the big boys, especially for wood windows; someone mentioned Kolbe (& Kolbe) that might be a bit more upscale. Milgard is national in the vinyl space.

Pretty much any metal dual-glazed insulated window, aluminum or some other metal, is going to be thermally broken where the exterior part and the interior part are different pieces of metal separated by a rubber gasket so heat doesn't transfer. Any product literature should confirm that. I wouldn't worry too much about their performance vs anything else, but vinyl has pretty much taken over the aluminum window space in the market and you don't see much metal windows aside from people going for something like factory-style sash.
posted by LionIndex at 1:12 PM on December 5, 2024 [1 favorite]

Of the biggies (Marvin, Pella, Anderson), I found Marvin to be the easiest to work with in my town. Pella and Anderson were both EXTREMELY high pressure and I hated the whole experience of talking to them. Marvin seemed to be the only one that realized this is a huge, expensive purchase and that I would need to think about it a bit and get multiple quotes and they were perfectly fine with that, totally left me alone. Pella/Anderson were both super annoyed I didn't give them a giant amount of money 20 minutes after meeting them and continued to email and text me relentlessly.

Even the process of just asking for someone to come in and give a quote was nicer with Marvin. Both Pella and Anderson were super bitchy about "all homeowners MUST be present or we will leave immediately!" my problem is that I had not yet removed my dead husband from the title so I got the ever fun task of telling them he won't be there because he is dead (yes because they had pulled up property tax records to see the names on the title). Marvin clearly didn't care, it never came up.

I went with Marvin Fiberglass replacement windows. I didn't want vinyl (and pretty much all the locals were vinyl only).
posted by magnetsphere at 4:35 PM on December 5, 2024 [4 favorites]

If by any chance they are old wood windows they can be restored. Old wood windows with storms (the original “double pane” window!) are infinitely repairable as long as they are maintained whereas new windows last 20 years.
posted by Bunglegirl at 6:21 PM on December 5, 2024 [2 favorites]

Emerald Windows in Philly has a very good reputation though I haven't used them myself.

Tilt-in for cleaning is SO useful.
In addition to the energy saving things (U-value and various treatments that can reflect or filter light) some windows block more sound, which can be nice in the city.
posted by sepviva at 8:10 PM on December 5, 2024

I need windows for my 130 year old house. I'm not ready to replace them yet. When I do I want to make sure that they open from both top and bottom and that they come with a full-window screen. Opening from the top helps with ventilation in warm weather.
posted by mareli at 6:50 AM on December 6, 2024