Not Guilty
December 1, 2024 12:46 PM Subscribe
My therapist has helped me to gain insight into the fact that most of my life has been lived out of a response to various types of guilt. Do you have any suggestions on how to start living life with pleasure and joy?
Many aspects of my life have been smeared with guilt: survivor's guilt, guilt for my past and/or my actions, guilt about my privilege being white, able-bodied so far, having good mental health, educated, not wealthy but currently financially stable, in a loving relationship, living in a safe home in a safe country, etc.
I admit that I make choices using guilt. I do have some parts of my life that make me happy and I feel bad when I think about them because, again, privilege. I don't push this on other people, or expect them to sacrifice anything they have in life, and I don't judge anyone (other than perhaps those with accumulated wealth beyond what I can fathom).
My therapist has helped me to understand that I am not single-handedly responsible for solving all of the world's problems purely because I was born with arguably a middle-ground amount of privilege. The problem is that I don't know how to make choices based on creating joy for myself without feeling selfish, undeserving, and, yes, guilty.
I will continue to work on this with my therapist but I would appreciate hearing any ideas you might have. How do you have a beautiful, pleasurable, joyful life when other people are having a hard time and there is so much suffering in your own community of friends and family?
Many aspects of my life have been smeared with guilt: survivor's guilt, guilt for my past and/or my actions, guilt about my privilege being white, able-bodied so far, having good mental health, educated, not wealthy but currently financially stable, in a loving relationship, living in a safe home in a safe country, etc.
I admit that I make choices using guilt. I do have some parts of my life that make me happy and I feel bad when I think about them because, again, privilege. I don't push this on other people, or expect them to sacrifice anything they have in life, and I don't judge anyone (other than perhaps those with accumulated wealth beyond what I can fathom).
My therapist has helped me to understand that I am not single-handedly responsible for solving all of the world's problems purely because I was born with arguably a middle-ground amount of privilege. The problem is that I don't know how to make choices based on creating joy for myself without feeling selfish, undeserving, and, yes, guilty.
I will continue to work on this with my therapist but I would appreciate hearing any ideas you might have. How do you have a beautiful, pleasurable, joyful life when other people are having a hard time and there is so much suffering in your own community of friends and family?
Imagine you were an external objective observer of yourself and your life. Objectively you would have no reason to imagine that you are any less worthy of joy, compassion, and kindness than any of the other 8 billion temporary travelers here. Dropping your irrational self bias will NOT make you a worse person in fact it may free up energy to do more good in the world for you and others. Proceed accordingly.
posted by jcworth at 1:08 PM on December 1, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by jcworth at 1:08 PM on December 1, 2024 [4 favorites]
Best answer: guilt about my privilege being white, able-bodied so far, having good mental health, educated, not wealthy but currently financially stable, in a loving relationship, living in a safe home in a safe country, etc.
Almost 50 years ago, I told someone that while I lived with my parents I felt guilty for having a nice warm bed at night in bad weather.
He said, "I wouldn't feel guilty; I would feel appreciative." It really hit me. I had not even thought of that.
Can you work on reframing your feelings about your good fortune from guilt to appreciation and resolve to help others when able?
any ideas you might have. How do you have a beautiful, pleasurable, joyful life
A gratitude list, with nothing too insignificant to include, and a ta-da list, again including seemingly insignificant things. And positive self talk sounds fatuous, but it works. Spend time in nature and get exercise.
I'm clinging to these methods these days, trust me.
posted by jgirl at 1:17 PM on December 1, 2024 [14 favorites]
Almost 50 years ago, I told someone that while I lived with my parents I felt guilty for having a nice warm bed at night in bad weather.
He said, "I wouldn't feel guilty; I would feel appreciative." It really hit me. I had not even thought of that.
Can you work on reframing your feelings about your good fortune from guilt to appreciation and resolve to help others when able?
any ideas you might have. How do you have a beautiful, pleasurable, joyful life
A gratitude list, with nothing too insignificant to include, and a ta-da list, again including seemingly insignificant things. And positive self talk sounds fatuous, but it works. Spend time in nature and get exercise.
I'm clinging to these methods these days, trust me.
posted by jgirl at 1:17 PM on December 1, 2024 [14 favorites]
Best answer: People usually do not end up running on guilt like this without some kind of inciting event or encoding. It takes something pretty powerful to break the wiring that's looking out for your best interests.
This deserves some deeper analysis, maybe in journaling that you can then take to your therapist: Have you had a hard look at this to figure out if you "caught" this attitude from a person or subculture or environment? Have you always been like this or can you think of a specific time it specifically escalated?
And it is really guilt or is it anxiety? Is it that "others don't have" or is it really "I do not deserve/I have somehow stolen"? What's the real narrative you're telling yourself?
I call guilt a "placeholder emotion". Like when a little kid can only tell you "my stomach hurts" when they're anxious, adults tend to say "I feel guilty" because they don't want to talk about how they feel shame or anger or a trauma response or something really complicated like fear-anger or seemingly-inappropriate relief or even apathy.
One place to start here is just pause at the guilt when it comes particularly in relation to a decision, and make it answer for itself: which of these choices directly harms someone else? Am I using this choice to silently self-harm? Am I using this choice to show off my self-harm so others will think something specific of me? Who is the judge/audience for this?
You need to drill down and see what's in there. Shame, self-loathing, toxic religion, Keeping Up Appearances, Someone Might Get Mad At Me, people-pleasing, trauma response? Are you kneejerking too far in the opposite direction of a narcissist that has been/is in your life?
posted by Lyn Never at 1:45 PM on December 1, 2024 [8 favorites]
This deserves some deeper analysis, maybe in journaling that you can then take to your therapist: Have you had a hard look at this to figure out if you "caught" this attitude from a person or subculture or environment? Have you always been like this or can you think of a specific time it specifically escalated?
And it is really guilt or is it anxiety? Is it that "others don't have" or is it really "I do not deserve/I have somehow stolen"? What's the real narrative you're telling yourself?
I call guilt a "placeholder emotion". Like when a little kid can only tell you "my stomach hurts" when they're anxious, adults tend to say "I feel guilty" because they don't want to talk about how they feel shame or anger or a trauma response or something really complicated like fear-anger or seemingly-inappropriate relief or even apathy.
One place to start here is just pause at the guilt when it comes particularly in relation to a decision, and make it answer for itself: which of these choices directly harms someone else? Am I using this choice to silently self-harm? Am I using this choice to show off my self-harm so others will think something specific of me? Who is the judge/audience for this?
You need to drill down and see what's in there. Shame, self-loathing, toxic religion, Keeping Up Appearances, Someone Might Get Mad At Me, people-pleasing, trauma response? Are you kneejerking too far in the opposite direction of a narcissist that has been/is in your life?
posted by Lyn Never at 1:45 PM on December 1, 2024 [8 favorites]
This question is fascinating to me, because I also feel guilt about some ways in which I'm privileged, but when I read your question, I instantly felt that your guilt is superfluous.
Have you read the book "Strangers Drowning"? It describes people who act upon these guilty feelings. One guy in the US only lets himself live on $1200 per year, because that's the global average income. Another couple adopted 22 children because they felt guilty about orphans. One doctor moved into a community of people with leprosy because no one else was willing to provide healthcare for them, but that doctor risked his own kids potentially getting leprosy.
The book showed how this struggle over guilt never ends. The couple that adopted 22 children could only spend limited time on each child. Some negative results occurred, and the couple felt extremely guilty. There was a US doctor (different from the leprosy-treating doctor) who made annual trips to a developing country to give free medical care. People criticized him because if he stayed in the US and donated the price of his plane ticket and hotel, it would actually save more lives.
One question: have some people said guilt-inducing things to you? E.g. does anyone say "It must be nice to have [privilege]" or criticizing a privileged group (that you belong to) within your hearing?
My own guilt is often caused by hearing other people saying guilt-inducing things.
I don't have a solution but I'm very interested in this discussion!
posted by cheesecake at 1:55 PM on December 1, 2024 [5 favorites]
Have you read the book "Strangers Drowning"? It describes people who act upon these guilty feelings. One guy in the US only lets himself live on $1200 per year, because that's the global average income. Another couple adopted 22 children because they felt guilty about orphans. One doctor moved into a community of people with leprosy because no one else was willing to provide healthcare for them, but that doctor risked his own kids potentially getting leprosy.
The book showed how this struggle over guilt never ends. The couple that adopted 22 children could only spend limited time on each child. Some negative results occurred, and the couple felt extremely guilty. There was a US doctor (different from the leprosy-treating doctor) who made annual trips to a developing country to give free medical care. People criticized him because if he stayed in the US and donated the price of his plane ticket and hotel, it would actually save more lives.
One question: have some people said guilt-inducing things to you? E.g. does anyone say "It must be nice to have [privilege]" or criticizing a privileged group (that you belong to) within your hearing?
My own guilt is often caused by hearing other people saying guilt-inducing things.
I don't have a solution but I'm very interested in this discussion!
posted by cheesecake at 1:55 PM on December 1, 2024 [5 favorites]
^^^ where it's important to distinguish guilt from shame. either way, useful pod.
posted by j_curiouser at 2:01 PM on December 1, 2024
posted by j_curiouser at 2:01 PM on December 1, 2024
What did it for me was harshly recognizing the limits of what I was going to give.
A defining moment in my life happened on a pedestrian bridge in Bangkok, watching a beggar girl sleep and recognizing that I had the power to lift her out of what, given the area we were in, was likely to be a life of beatings, sexual abuse, disease, and a painful lingering death. And right there, in her presence, I admitted to myself that I wasn't going to do anything about it. It would have required more from me than I was willing to give.
Following that I arrived at a realistic view of what I, personally, was willing to do for the community of man. Honestly I'm barely beyond cheering from the sidelines. I let other people have the visions and start the projects; I provide the technical muscle to help things happen.
Knowing what I can realistically do, I hold myself to that standard. If I'm giving what I can then there is nothing to feel guilty about.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:05 PM on December 1, 2024 [3 favorites]
A defining moment in my life happened on a pedestrian bridge in Bangkok, watching a beggar girl sleep and recognizing that I had the power to lift her out of what, given the area we were in, was likely to be a life of beatings, sexual abuse, disease, and a painful lingering death. And right there, in her presence, I admitted to myself that I wasn't going to do anything about it. It would have required more from me than I was willing to give.
Following that I arrived at a realistic view of what I, personally, was willing to do for the community of man. Honestly I'm barely beyond cheering from the sidelines. I let other people have the visions and start the projects; I provide the technical muscle to help things happen.
Knowing what I can realistically do, I hold myself to that standard. If I'm giving what I can then there is nothing to feel guilty about.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:05 PM on December 1, 2024 [3 favorites]
Well, this article just arrived in my Inbox based on "How to Live a Miraculous Life" by Brian Doyle.
Also, there is this very short thought attributed to the Persian poet Hafiz:
“Even
After
All this time
The Sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me."
Look
What happens
With a love like that,
It lights the whole sky.”
FWIW.
posted by forthright at 3:30 PM on December 1, 2024 [14 favorites]
Also, there is this very short thought attributed to the Persian poet Hafiz:
“Even
After
All this time
The Sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me."
Look
What happens
With a love like that,
It lights the whole sky.”
FWIW.
posted by forthright at 3:30 PM on December 1, 2024 [14 favorites]
I am not single-handedly responsible for solving all of the world's problems purely because I was born with arguably a middle-ground amount of privilege.
It is also important to remember that you are not the individual human responsible for creating those problems. The class of people who look like you and live like you may be, historically, but you as an individual are responsible only for the choices you make in the life you live. If you live your life and use your privilege in a way that helps people and communities that you can in whatever way is meaningful to them and helpful for them, that's all you can do. And that can be a lot!
Choosing not to perpetuate the problems that you see privilege causing in the world - whatever that looks like for you - is a huge step forward, and if more people took that step, the world would be a much better place.
You can't solve society's problems, but you can, and it sounds like you're trying to, make your sphere of influence a better place to be from your individual perspective. Keep doing that work and you will be more at peace with yourself over time, and the pleasure will follow.
posted by pdb at 3:50 PM on December 1, 2024 [2 favorites]
It is also important to remember that you are not the individual human responsible for creating those problems. The class of people who look like you and live like you may be, historically, but you as an individual are responsible only for the choices you make in the life you live. If you live your life and use your privilege in a way that helps people and communities that you can in whatever way is meaningful to them and helpful for them, that's all you can do. And that can be a lot!
Choosing not to perpetuate the problems that you see privilege causing in the world - whatever that looks like for you - is a huge step forward, and if more people took that step, the world would be a much better place.
You can't solve society's problems, but you can, and it sounds like you're trying to, make your sphere of influence a better place to be from your individual perspective. Keep doing that work and you will be more at peace with yourself over time, and the pleasure will follow.
posted by pdb at 3:50 PM on December 1, 2024 [2 favorites]
Joy and pleasure are habits that must be cultivated. Start small. What’s something that you have been depriving yourself of out of guilt? Again, start small—cut flowers from the grocery, fancy face cream, reading a book even if it’s not ‘good’ literature, walking to the park with a hot tea. You start by connecting your sensation of pleasure with real, concrete things. Then you start to grow bigger.
The best way i have connected through this is through reading and doing the exercises in ‘The Artists Way’. A huge part of it includes things like making lists of activities you enjoyed when you were young and then doing those things again. You’ll be surprised what you unearth, i think.
posted by you'rerightyou'rerightiknowyou'reright at 3:55 PM on December 1, 2024 [4 favorites]
The best way i have connected through this is through reading and doing the exercises in ‘The Artists Way’. A huge part of it includes things like making lists of activities you enjoyed when you were young and then doing those things again. You’ll be surprised what you unearth, i think.
posted by you'rerightyou'rerightiknowyou'reright at 3:55 PM on December 1, 2024 [4 favorites]
Guilt is not a feeling I have.
Shame and embarrassment for things I have done, is.
But as everyone upthread has said, you cannot solve the world's problems. You can do what you can to not make the world a worse place, and that's about all you can do.
Guilt is an emotion that can make you feel bad about yourself, and not much else.
You can certainly try to do the things that don't make you feel bad, and that is a good thing. Be the best person you can be. But we are all flawed humans, and we will all make mistakes along the way.
Self-compassion is a good thing. I am trying to get there.
You are the most important thing in your life. No one posting here will be alive in a hundred years. No one making you feel guilt will be alive in a hundred years either...
Fuck guilt. Just do the best you can.
posted by Windopaene at 6:09 PM on December 1, 2024 [1 favorite]
Shame and embarrassment for things I have done, is.
But as everyone upthread has said, you cannot solve the world's problems. You can do what you can to not make the world a worse place, and that's about all you can do.
Guilt is an emotion that can make you feel bad about yourself, and not much else.
You can certainly try to do the things that don't make you feel bad, and that is a good thing. Be the best person you can be. But we are all flawed humans, and we will all make mistakes along the way.
Self-compassion is a good thing. I am trying to get there.
You are the most important thing in your life. No one posting here will be alive in a hundred years. No one making you feel guilt will be alive in a hundred years either...
Fuck guilt. Just do the best you can.
posted by Windopaene at 6:09 PM on December 1, 2024 [1 favorite]
The real answer is therapy, imo.
Getting insight is the easy part of therapy. Your therapist could probably have told you what was wrong within 30 minutes of meeting you, and the rest of the work you've done so far is to get to a place where you are able to hear it and understand it and take it in. I'd call this stage 1.
Using the process to change your habitual ways of thinking and feeling... that's the meat of therapy, the whole point of it. Really dig in and start trying to change. Use your therapist to keep you going. It will probably take a while longer than Stage 1 and will likely unfold in unexpected ways.
> How do you have a beautiful, pleasurable, joyful life when other people are having a hard time and there is so much suffering in your own community of friends and family?
Bring up that question in therapy, and you will be off to a great start on Stage 2.
posted by MiraK at 10:02 PM on December 1, 2024 [1 favorite]
Getting insight is the easy part of therapy. Your therapist could probably have told you what was wrong within 30 minutes of meeting you, and the rest of the work you've done so far is to get to a place where you are able to hear it and understand it and take it in. I'd call this stage 1.
Using the process to change your habitual ways of thinking and feeling... that's the meat of therapy, the whole point of it. Really dig in and start trying to change. Use your therapist to keep you going. It will probably take a while longer than Stage 1 and will likely unfold in unexpected ways.
> How do you have a beautiful, pleasurable, joyful life when other people are having a hard time and there is so much suffering in your own community of friends and family?
Bring up that question in therapy, and you will be off to a great start on Stage 2.
posted by MiraK at 10:02 PM on December 1, 2024 [1 favorite]
The problem is that I don't know how to make choices based on creating joy for myself without feeling selfish, undeserving, and, yes, guilty.
Honestly, every decision you make is inherently selfish at some level. Decide not to buy lunch today? You are depriving a local business of income. Have lunch at some mega chain? You are potentially putting a local farmer out of business who is undercut by the mega chain.
In other words, you cannot possibly determine your choices on the butterfly effects that it will have elsewhere. I'm exhausted just reading your question thinking about the possibilities.
Also, remember, you did nothing here except being born into your situation. You had no choice in this and so why use it as a bludgeon to tamp out any happiness you may find? On your death bed, will you lament the choices you made that deprived others or will you reflect on the joy that you had?
I feel like your preoccupation with guilt is masking a completely different problem - like low self-esteem (I'm not worthy of having nice things) or some childhood trauma (being told you are ungrateful or something similar).
posted by tafetta, darling! at 8:10 AM on December 2, 2024 [4 favorites]
Honestly, every decision you make is inherently selfish at some level. Decide not to buy lunch today? You are depriving a local business of income. Have lunch at some mega chain? You are potentially putting a local farmer out of business who is undercut by the mega chain.
In other words, you cannot possibly determine your choices on the butterfly effects that it will have elsewhere. I'm exhausted just reading your question thinking about the possibilities.
Also, remember, you did nothing here except being born into your situation. You had no choice in this and so why use it as a bludgeon to tamp out any happiness you may find? On your death bed, will you lament the choices you made that deprived others or will you reflect on the joy that you had?
I feel like your preoccupation with guilt is masking a completely different problem - like low self-esteem (I'm not worthy of having nice things) or some childhood trauma (being told you are ungrateful or something similar).
posted by tafetta, darling! at 8:10 AM on December 2, 2024 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I don't think it's possible to reason your way out of these kind of feelings.
Do you have kids? Or a pet? This has worked for me recently. I don't know if I have guilt, but I do have this sort of major block to feeling joy. Maybe it's shame, or fear. Anyhow, I've been trying for years to get rid of it and nothing worked until now. I was cuddling my kiddo and feeling that unconditional love - that wonderful feeling that no matter what mistake she makes, despite anything, I adore her and think the best of her and I want her to feel that kind of love from me. I realized that I should try to direct that feeling of total adoration to myself, so I began to imagine a parent (not my real parent, totally imaginary), feeling those feeling towards me. And I immediately felt something lift. I felt better.
This is hard, it takes practice and I can really only manage it best for a few minutes while I am physically with my child or imagining her. But it's truly helping. It's like passing all of the guilt and fear over to an adult or benevolent other who is really looking out for you and sees the best version of you and believes in you fully.
posted by kitcat at 9:07 AM on December 2, 2024 [3 favorites]
Do you have kids? Or a pet? This has worked for me recently. I don't know if I have guilt, but I do have this sort of major block to feeling joy. Maybe it's shame, or fear. Anyhow, I've been trying for years to get rid of it and nothing worked until now. I was cuddling my kiddo and feeling that unconditional love - that wonderful feeling that no matter what mistake she makes, despite anything, I adore her and think the best of her and I want her to feel that kind of love from me. I realized that I should try to direct that feeling of total adoration to myself, so I began to imagine a parent (not my real parent, totally imaginary), feeling those feeling towards me. And I immediately felt something lift. I felt better.
This is hard, it takes practice and I can really only manage it best for a few minutes while I am physically with my child or imagining her. But it's truly helping. It's like passing all of the guilt and fear over to an adult or benevolent other who is really looking out for you and sees the best version of you and believes in you fully.
posted by kitcat at 9:07 AM on December 2, 2024 [3 favorites]
I’m grateful to be alive - just to be here as a participant to this human life.
Not feeling my joy doesn’t make anyone else happier.
When my cup is full I can give the most.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:34 AM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
Not feeling my joy doesn’t make anyone else happier.
When my cup is full I can give the most.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:34 AM on December 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Every one of these comments is more helpful than you probably know. I will be rereading them as I mull things over; yes, I will be continuing with therapy for this and all the other reasons life provides. Thank you so much.
posted by glorybe at 7:30 AM on December 3, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by glorybe at 7:30 AM on December 3, 2024 [5 favorites]
I find it helpful to focus on what I can do to make the world a better place. Joy isn't a zero-sum game, and creating joy for yourself doesn't necessarily mean that you are creating an equal amount of suffering for someone else. In fact, creating joy for yourself might either directly create joy for other people, or at least put you in a mentally healthier position to help other people.
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 4:06 PM on December 6, 2024
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 4:06 PM on December 6, 2024
« Older Axe grinding for beginners (and kitchen knives too... | ISO Industrial Roomba/Robot Vacum Newer »
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 1:04 PM on December 1, 2024 [4 favorites]