“Picture it: Sicily, 2024. A terrible grudge began at the zoo”
November 24, 2024 5:50 AM   Subscribe

I’ve been tagged in as an informal mediator to help my once-fellow future Golden Girls “Alison” and “Becky” work through a recent conflict described below the fold - which, unfortunately, I’m not sure is even mediate-able at this point. I’m asking for some pointers and your overall take on the friendships dynamics I’m about to describe in this wall of text:

Background: About 19 years ago, I became part of a 6-woman friend group from the same hometown, now living all over the country, where we agreed to be like “The Golden Girls” for each other someday if needed, cohabiting in old age. One of the core agreements we made towards this end was that should a conflict arise between any of us, upon request, another one of us would make reasonable efforts to help mediate the dispute, in the hope of preserving the future of the group. “Becky” is the only currently married woman in our group, and the only one to have never left our hometown; the rest of us are divorced, live in different time zones, and half of us have kids. Becky has spent the last 2 years helping her daughter (20) marry her high school sweetheart (20), and letting her now-son-in-law live with Becky’s family for free prior to the wedding. During that time, Becky described to some other of The Golden Girls some very concerning behaviors on her now-SIL’s part, raising red flags for abuse including several incidents of verbal cruelty towards Becky, her daughter, and her young teen son. A couple of The Golden Girls chose not to attend the nuptials, at least 1 because she said she didn’t agree with Becky’s choices to “keep enabling her daughter to marry an entitled jerk who has had his every move bankrolled by Becky and her husband.” I can see her point. Alison, however, is the least judgmental woman in our group, was childfree the wedding month, and Alison stepped up big time for Becky and family during the wedding, and flew out early spending extra days before and after helping with everything including set up and take down of multiple events, steaming gowns, running errands, shopping etc. Alison totally went above and beyond for Becky, in a hands-on way Becky’s own local blood relatives and the rest of The Golden Girls definitely either did not wish to so actively support or were unable to, for whatever reasons.

Two months later, Alison decided to fly her 3 kids out for a 4-night visit to the attractions in Becky’s city, and to have the kids meet Becky and her family for the first time in person. Alison’s kids have pet allergies and couldn’t stay at Becky’s house, where Becky had originally offered to host them, so Becky instead recommended a hotel in her neighborhood, and offered to meet up at the zoo one day, and for dinners out on the nights Becky’s teen son didn’t have his sport.

When Alison and her kids arrived on Night 1, Becky texted to say they were tired, going to bed early and couldn’t meet up. On Night 2, Becky invited just Alison but not Alison’s kids to come over to Becky’s house after Alison took her kids out to dinner. Present at Becky’s house were Becky, her husband, son, newlywed daughter, and SIL: they were all glued to the TV news watching Hurricane Milton coverage (while not knowing anyone who lived in the area to be affected by the hurricane). After about half an hour of group TV news watching, with no meaningful conversation, one of Alison’s kids called her and asked Alison to please come back to the hotel, so she left. On Night 3, Becky’s son had a sports banquet, so Becky let Alison know she was once again too busy to meet up and that Alison should just enjoy a night at her hotel with her kids. Alison is a very chill person and was very flexible and enjoyed making other plans with her kids, and was otherwise having an awesome family trip.

The final full day of Alison’s trip, she took her kids to the zoo, arriving there right when it opened. It takes more than 1 day to really see everything at this zoo, so Alison had come up with a touring plan to suit her 3 kids’ ages and needs. Becky texted Alison that she and her teen son would be coming to the zoo at 11:30am or so. Becky arrives closer to 1pm and texts Alison: “My son wants to go see the gorilla exhibit first, so maybe we’ll meet up after that. He wants to see absolutely everything today.”

Alison figured that meant Becky was going to just follow her son’s lead at the zoo, and was cool with going with the flow like that, thinking that they’d all meet up perhaps that evening. That was her last full day in town, and Alison and kids were flying out the following afternoon.

Becky never texts Alison a firm meeting point at the zoo. Alison calls Becky and Becky doesn’t call Alison back. Then as the long day goes on, Alison’s old model phone runs out of data, and needs charging. Alison texts Becky that her phone was about to die, and to please pick a zoo meeting point. Becky doesn’t respond. So Alison carries on and the finish up the zoo, and with the help of her son’s phone is able to call them a rideshare back to the hotel. Alison’s kids were all tired and thirsty so they grabbed an early dinner at a restaurant near Alison’s hotel, and she left voice messages for Becky explaining the situation and how to reach Alison at the hotel, inviting Becky and family over, and making sure Becky had Alison’s son’s cell phone.

Becky never responded to any of Alison’s messages. Alison continued to text and call Becky, again inviting Becky’s family to their hotel that night. No response. Alison texts Becky the next morning, inviting Becky and her family again for weekend breakfast - no response. Alison flies home and texts Becky when they land safely. A few hours later, Alison gets a very nasty, verbally-abusive text from Becky, that apparently Becky let her SIL write and send on Becky’s phone. Alison calls Becky to talk about it, but Becky requests Alison text whatever Alison has to say.

Alison texted Becky: “Hi Becky, I really need to be around people who think our friendship is worth at least one conversation to try to work through something upsetting, instead of assuming the worst before she’s even actually spoken to the other person about it. So I hope you will choose to call me back at some point, IF this is the level of friendship you are also wanting with me?”

“Rightly or wrongly, lately it has seemed to me like you haven’t genuinely enjoyed dealing with me, like this is the 2nd time in the last few weeks you haven’t wanted to talk about something I said or did that really frustrated you. Feels like I might have missed your hints that you just aren’t into our friendship anymore? The last thing I ever wanted to do is to hurt you, frustrate you, or be any type of a burden on a very loved friend who can’t seem to get rid of me.”

Becky text replied the next day: “Alison, I’m deeply grateful for the help you provided for my daughter’s wedding. I’m about to go to church now. You are the kind of person who cuts people out of your life for no reason, you would even cut off your own kids! I think you need to give people GRACE. So I will not be discussing a single thing about that awful zoo day with you at all. We all went to a lot of trouble taking off work and prepping for your visit.” [Note: Neither Becky nor her teen son have jobs. Becky claims her SIL took off work to also come to the zoo, but this was never communicated to Alison.]

Becky never called Alison back, and after several weeks passed Alison figured Becky had wanted out of the friendship and this was Becky’s way of expressing that wish. Alison processed it in therapy and came to a place of understanding she didn’t want a friend like Becky in her life moving forward. Becky finally reached out to me when she texted Alison several weeks later and got the following text response from Alison: “Hey Becky, I’m surprised to be hearing from you.”

Becky: “Did you not want me to text or call any longer?”

Alison: “Ma’am, I’m a little confused. I’m not the one who ghosted here. You pushed me away and are acting like you didn’t. I’ll never understand the venom behind your extremely creepy text. I’ll never understand your choice to intentionally ghost me and my kids Fri-Sat. But you get to choose who you do and don’t want in your life. Just surprised to be hearing from you again.”

Becky: [ALL CAPS multi-paragraphs tirade full of ad hominem attacks on Alison, I’m paraphrasing here]: “Don’t say venom! Call me Miss not Ma’am! You strung us along at the zoo! You are truly pathological! May God help you, Alison!”

Alison: “Thank you for letting me know your decision to end our friendship.” Then Alison blocked Becky.

Current Issue: Now that she perhaps realizes Alison is long gone, Becky has been reflecting on what went down, and been calling me near-daily with requests for help to bring Alison back into her life. I’m pretty positive Alison is gone-gone from wanting to ever deal with Becky again, but knowing Alison, there are probably also no hard feelings. For me, I want to make sure I’ve upheld my promise to The Golden Girls to at least try to mediate this conflict. I reached out to Alison, who was incredibly calm and measured in the way she talked about the conflict. She didn’t say very much, nor trash Becky at all - I was left with the impression Alison is just done. Alison has my respect and admiration for not taking Becky’s bait. As for Becky, I let her know that I would seek input from neutral parties about her behavior (Hi, and thank you in advance, AskMeFi) and I know she knows she was out of line as to her reactivity and her personal attacks on Alison. Becky does not believe therapy would benefit her at this juncture, and I encouraged Becky to give that some more thought. I hope I have discharged my (non-binding) duty to my group to try to mediate. Am I missing anything else here?
posted by edithkeeler to Human Relations (31 answers total) 3 users marked this as a favorite
 
Best answer: You've done exactly what you need to do. Your promise is fulfilled. Please assume that someone else will need to fill Becky's future GG spot -- she does not seem like she would be an asset to the group. The last thing you want is to set yourselves up for this kind of behaviour endlessly throughout your Golden Girls years, which are meant to be FUN.
posted by mccxxiii at 6:01 AM on November 24, 2024 [28 favorites]


Agreed that you might want to rethink the mediation service at this point in your life so that you don't end up constantly mediating during potential old-age cohabitation.

I am a little concerned that Becky's SIL (this is her daughter's husband's mother, who is abusive to her own family?) has been doing a lot of the texting. She could even have deleted the texts to Allison after sending them from Becky's phone. Isolating victims from friends is a thing that abusers do. If that's what's going on, then helping Becky and her family get free of an abusive person is a higher priority than patching up Becky's relationship with Allison.
posted by aincandenza at 6:17 AM on November 24, 2024 [7 favorites]


Best answer: If you truly want to be involved in this, I think the logical ask is for you to get Becky to explain the visit weekend and zoo trip to you from her perspective. What was going on in Becky's life that she made the choices she did over those several days?

Then once you have both stories, you can determine for yourself how factual each one sounds based on what you know about each lady and determine if you want to get further involved.

Like it could be anything from Alison's recounting is 100% accurate and Becky's an asshole, or Becky could reveal her relationship with her family and in laws has become abusive and she's in over her head and needs help to extricate herself from the situation she's in.

No matter what, absolutely cheering you for drawing a very bright line on telling her to drop the attack mode. Thank you. If she ever wants to participate in this friendship group she's simply got to stop that.
posted by phunniemee at 6:19 AM on November 24, 2024 [21 favorites]


What you've shared here (particularly zoo day) seems like it's told mostly from Allison's point of view. As a mediator, you could say it's your responsibility to hear out Becky to better understand her point of view and choices.

Why didn't she ever return any texts on Zoo Day?
Did she really pen the venomous text? Why was she so harsh?
What about Zoo Day was so wrong?

This probably won't lead to reconciliation but as a mediator you should try to understand both sides of the situation and do what you can to make sure both sides have heard the other.

From Allison's POV it seems like Becky really couldn't be bothered to make time to see her and her kids (which would have been a first) and then got unreasonably angry about what seemed like a mixup at best and kinda mean ghosting at worst.

But maybe something else was going on for Becky? We don't know. It doesn't sound like she's good at basic communication of needs/wants, and seems terrible at conflict. I wouldn't make much of an effort for Becky if I were in Allison's shoes. But again, we don't know Becky's version of events

So again, hear Becky out. Ask her what it would take and what she's willing to do to repair the breach. Share with Allison and see if she's willing to accept an apology and take action to repair the breach ( sounds unlikely) and you can say you've done your job .
posted by brookeb at 6:22 AM on November 24, 2024 [6 favorites]


Best answer: Based on what you presented here, Becky doesn't seem to be acting rationally; something is going on with her. I think it will take professional counseling, vs a friend, to sort this out for her.

(I don't know if this is what is what is contributing to, or maybe even is the cause of, Becky's behavior and attitude, but I always think it is very sad when people use wedding boycotting to make a statement. Instead, I think a wedding is a time to put any judgments/worries aside and just attend the wedding to show support and love even under dire circumstances. Maybe Becky's feelings are hurt that some friends boycotted the wedding, and so maybe she feels unsupported and judged, and is taking it out on Alison.)
posted by SageTrail at 6:28 AM on November 24, 2024 [5 favorites]


Response by poster: Points of clarification: 1) My post is primarily Becky’s recounting. Alison agreed to the basic facts I’ve presented here. The text messages I’ve quoted/paraphrased are accurate according to both Becky and Alison, and my own eyes on their screenshots. The foregoing facts are not genuinely in any dispute.

2) “SIL” refers to “son-in-law” - Becky’s daughter’s husband, age 20. Possibly abusive.
posted by edithkeeler at 6:35 AM on November 24, 2024 [4 favorites]


Best answer: On clarification that Becky admits to having done and said those things... good for Alison for setting boundaries. Not your problem at this point!
posted by aincandenza at 6:44 AM on November 24, 2024 [6 favorites]


Before your clarification, I’d typed this:

“From what we know, Alison tried to coordinate with Becky all through the zoo day, with no reply from Becky. Yet Becky found it such an egregiously awful day with regards to Alison that she won’t speak about it. Something is missing here. Maybe the abusive son in law is controlling Becky’s phone, and what Alison has said to Becky and what Becky has said back is completely distorted by him. Or maybe there’s another explanation. But the communication to and from Becky that Alison thinks she’s had isn’t lining up with any normal reality.

If you think Becky is as awful as she sounds here, then you’re done anyway. If you don’t, then a conversation with her, without the son in law’s knowledge or interference, might reveal that what she actually received, sent, and wanted all through that visit was quite different from how it appeared to both her and Alison.”

Did Becky confirm as accurate that all through and after the zoo day, Alison tried to reach her and she didn’t reply? Yet she felt so wronged by that that she couldn’t speak about it? Did this clarification happen in a way that the SIL couldn’t tamper with?
posted by daisyace at 6:52 AM on November 24, 2024 [1 favorite]


Best answer: 20 years is a really long time, and many of the people I was sure I’d be close to forever 20 years ago have grown in very different directions than those in which I have grown. It is OK to accept that not everyone is gonna be in the same future with you.
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:03 AM on November 24, 2024 [7 favorites]


Best answer: Why the hell would someone let their 20-year-old son in law handle their phone and read their texts?

Sidebar: are any of these people in the throes of unmedicated perimenopause because this sounds just like some of the brain fog/rage issues that I and some of my friends have been having. Add on to that the pressures of keeping up with kids and obligations and other people’s demands on our time. It’s often not the best! Women who’ve been raised (especially church/christian women) to be family servants often fall apart at this time of their lives because the expectations of themselves and from their community are so high and their coping skills are flatlined.

Here’s what I’d outline for Becky and Allison:
1. Expectations for the trip maybe weren’t clear and Becky may have been trying to do too much. But Allison felt like she wasn’t a priority at all and generally a friend coming into town special is a priority.
2. Nobody should ever let someone else do the fighting for them such as the case of SIL texting angry diatribe against another friend. That is 100% over the line and absolutely friendship ending behavior. It’s a violation of trust and disrespectful. And further, it makes you very concerned for what is going on with Becky and her boundaries.
3. You just cannot understand Becky’s point of view that she is the wronged party. If Becky has simply flipped her lid because she was called out and for good reason then she needs to sit with that. Maybe pray on it. But if this feels out of character for herself, if she doesn’t understand why she feels so much rage over this issue, she should also talk to a doctor. Because objectively, she is in the wrong. She was unresponsive to texts and never met up with Alison at the zoo. She ghosted her and made the day very weird and stressful for Alison. That’s not what friends are for.
posted by amanda at 7:46 AM on November 24, 2024 [11 favorites]


You did fine. Just accept that Becky is a personal friend of yours, and engage as you wish.

My advice is basically for everyone else: have the remaining GGs get together and hammer out a protocol for what this all will look like, including the "mediating", and how it will work. Rules, guidelines, best practices, "how to tap out gracefully", what kind of records to keep, etc. If this is going to have a snowball's chance in hell of working, this is something that will need actual legal professionals involved anyway. So your first big test can be writing everything down and making things explicit for how you guys are going to collectively fund, interview, and select the lawyer you are going to hire to get the ball formally rolling.

If you can't get through that, just accept that times and people change.
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 7:59 AM on November 24, 2024 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Becky has surrounded herself with some new and not very healthy people, esp. evidenced by having a 3rd party write the text. New companions can really influence a person. Also, could Becky be ill or experiencing some dementia?

Alison sounds healthy and balanced, kudos, Alison. Becky sounds like she needs new friends and better family boundaries, which she will not likely seek. Good luck, Becky. If you want to be kind, make sure Becky knows you are a resource if son-in-law's abuse worsens, financial abuse, etc. She seems to be in a precarious position.

I envy your friend group, even with problems. People change, maybe Becky will straighten things out. You've done well as moderator, and I trust your presentation.
posted by theora55 at 8:21 AM on November 24, 2024 [9 favorites]


Best answer: Alison and Becky have both fallen into the super common trap of assigning emotional weight to electronic text messaging and/or failures thereof. I have been swimming against the tide by advising people not to do that for decades at this point. In my view, text messaging is for simple shit like asking somebody to bring home more milk, not for assuaging the various hurts that people routinely inflict upon each other whether or not they mean to. I understand and accept that the latter is now a completely normal and unexceptional thing for people to use text to try to do, but that advice still stands.

Whenever some kind of communication breakdown has lead to any kind of emotionally important relationship getting dented, the most reliable way to get the relevant issues resolved is to do so face to face, preferably on physically neutral territory and preferably after sharing a meal. There's a reason why the parts of the old idiom "break bread and talk" occur in the order they do.

If Becky wants Alison back in her life then it's on Becky to organize the face to face meeting that could possibly be the start of making that happen.

If I were friends with both of those people, and one of them had asked me to mediate, and the other had agreed to my doing so, then I would set up that meeting and be there in person and do my level best to facilitate it as an experienced mediator would.

Ground rule: no putdowns allowed.

Process: each person gets a turn to explain, uninterrupted, one of the issues as they see it. The other person then has to paraphrase that explanation back, in order to verify that the issue has been correctly communicated. Mediator takes notes.

Once all the issues are out on the table and both parties agree that they have been heard, the mediator asks what each of them would like the other to do, and then a process of negotiation starts. Any time things start feeling like they're beginning to get heated, mediator calls for a 60 second break where nobody says anything, just to give everybody time to calm down.

Best case outcome, and actually the most common if the two people involved are both reasonable human beings with some hope of continuing as friends, is that each of them agrees to do what the other has asked of them and then they both do those things. Which could be as simple as saying oh, I had no idea that's what was going on, I'm sorry I took that so badly and will try not to do that again.

Worst case outcome: both of them tell the mediator to fuck off outta here with your stupid ground rules and your moronic formulaic paraphrasing you useless fucking luddite hippie psychobabbler, and then they storm out. Now there are three emotionally weighted interpersonal issues requiring face to face resolution :-)

Why the hell would someone let their 20-year-old son in law handle their phone and read their texts?

Or, worse, reply in their name?

If SIL is in fact abusive then he will have been working for some time to make that seem like not only Becky's best option but something she now sees as normal. This is straight out of Abuser Playbook 101. I would not be at all surprised to find that SIL has done quite a lot of work behind the scenes here, work specifically designed to cut Becky out of her existing friendship group to increase the amount of control that he can exert over the household he's mooching off.

Prediction: if you do try to set up a semi-formal face-to-face mediation session with Alison and Becky, SIL will "just happen" to turn up; he'll want to make sure nothing meaningful comes of it.
posted by flabdablet at 8:29 AM on November 24, 2024 [18 favorites]


It sounds to me like planning to live with five other people in your old age, two of which are the people you described, would be very like hell. I would not expend an erg of energy trying to get them back together. Of course, I have very little tolerance for drama llamas in general.

In summary: you have already done more than you are required to do. Good luck in any event.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 8:35 AM on November 24, 2024 [1 favorite]


Best answer: I would say something like "Verbally-abusive messages like the one sent from your phone to Allison, whoever it was that actually typed it, are simply not acceptable and as far as I'm concerned was your resignation from this group. You made your choice at that time.

Honestly my primary concern here is that you are being abused and manipulated by your son in law, who is expressly and specifically NOT invited to participate in our group dynamic. I won't speak for any of the rest of us but I personally will help you however I can when you are ready to get out of this situation. I wish you well, but even a long-term committed friendship does not convey the obligation to also experience your abuse."
posted by Lyn Never at 9:00 AM on November 24, 2024 [21 favorites]


It’s not clear to me if the Golden Girls actually formally kicking Becky out is a thing? Please don’t do that, let each person have the relationship that works for them. Make a new group chat for the five of you, but try not to make it a big deal, don’t delete the old one. All of you are likely to feel a bit differently about this in five years, just let it rest. Try not to let Becky’s abusive relative cut her off from you permanently.
posted by momus_window at 11:31 AM on November 24, 2024 [2 favorites]


This problem seems to pretty obviously be of your friend being abused. Deliberately being extra hostile to one of Becky‘s supportive friends to further isolate her is classic abusive behavior. You don’t have to be abused by proxy, and neither does Alison, but I think that it is a mistake to consider this Becky‘s personality or her permanent situation.
posted by knobknosher at 11:45 AM on November 24, 2024 [2 favorites]


Something I noticed which I don’t know
if it’s accurate to the day or only to the recounting of it is that in the story, Becky text Alison ‘meet you later maybe?’ and Alison actually just made an assumption rather than texting back right away agreeing? This would make sense of why Becky felt strung along all day when at first that seemed totally puzzling to me.
posted by lokta at 11:49 AM on November 24, 2024 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Thanks everyone!

I hear the concerns for Becky. Rest assured, she has a very kind husband and daughter and son who love her, lots of family ties in her area including a twin and a sweet brother, great health insurance to pay for both the recommended menopause doctor and the therapy she refuses, free time during her day, and a supportive church community that feels meaningful to her. The rest of us GG’s are actually single and fairly geographically isolated to one degree or another because we’ve escaped various male abusers over the years - from 1991 to the present day. So trust and believe that identifying and responding to all kinds of abuse dynamics are nothing new to us as a group, unfortunately. We can quote Lundy Bancroft in our sleep at this point.

You can’t help someone who keeps refusing help, and who leans into their own victimhood the hardest when they are being the aggressor. You can only leave the proverbial door open a crack to see if she maybe starts doing the work at some point, while you remain safe. Such is life!
posted by edithkeeler at 12:41 PM on November 24, 2024 [18 favorites]


Best answer: What's your read on Becky and the wedding of her daughter to the son-in-law? Was she expecting Golden Girls to speak truth to her and set her right or to get behind her choice to support her daughter and marriage? And to show up, were you all expected to attend the wedding?

This "Son-in-law writes for her" smells like "didn't attend the zoo because of the son-in-law acting to isolate from any other supportive friendships." What's the real interaction like?
posted by k3ninho at 4:05 PM on November 24, 2024 [2 favorites]


Best answer: Ooof, I agree that you've done more than most people would have in this situation. Becky needs to do the work and until she does, there's not much more you can do to help aside from keeping the door open. Allison has set a reasonable boundary and that should be respected, by Becky and the rest of you.

I don't think you want to "Golden Girl" with Becky until/unless she works out her issues. You and some of the others might want to keep individual one-on-one friendships going with her, but I agree with the idea of the five of you going forward as a group without her. She's just not at the same place as the rest of you for now.
posted by rpfields at 4:53 PM on November 24, 2024 [3 favorites]


You can’t help someone who keeps refusing help, and who leans into their own victimhood the hardest when they are being the aggressor.

It’s totally fine for you to feel this way, but I don’t think you’re a great person to mediate. You seem to kinda think the Becky is a bad person. You may be right!

Ultimately, you don’t have to do anything but you seem to be a victim blaming which I don’t think is necessary either.
posted by knobknosher at 6:02 PM on November 24, 2024 [3 favorites]


It seems like you all are probably at least 40 or older? This all seems like WAY too much drama for people of this age (it sounds more apt for people in their early 20s). I don't really even understand why someone from the group is expected to mediate other group members' conflicts. Also, practically speaking, if Becky is the only person in the group who's married to a supposedly very supportive spouse, would she actually golden girl it with you all rather than live with her spouse until one of them dies? It sounds like both you and Alison don't want a relationship with Becky, and since others in your group did not support Becky by attending the wedding, Becky should no longer be in the group. She has a lot of support from her family and church, as you said--she will be fine. If she and her husband are both allowing the SIL to be verbally abusive to both Becky and her (potentially minor?) son, they need to figure that out and not interact with him. I think mediating this is an unnecessary extra stressor in your life and who needs that?

I'm sorry if my response sounds rude or harsh. I am an early 40s divorcee with no kids and a full time job and I empathize with the group but this just sounds so complicated.
posted by bookworm4125 at 11:56 PM on November 24, 2024


Best answer: I was relieved to see your latest update; I'd been wondering where Becky's spouse was in all of this, and concerned about her younger son.

Maybe it's just my own family history, but your description of Becky's behavior reminds me of people who've started acting in uncharacteristic ways and later been diagnosed with a fairly major mental disorder. But it also sounds like the daughter and son-in-law's behavior is very sketchy and it's hard to say what all is in the mix. And also if Becky's behavior is uncharacteristic/has changed abruptly, I'd wonder to what extent the son-in-law saw some vulnerability and moved in on Becky and to what exent that dynamic is exacerbating whatever mental health problems there are.

The only thing I really have to add is, with family members who've started acting strange and burning relationships all of a sudden, they have tended to come out of it, maybe not with relationships intact but with some of them salvageable. This is someone you all were thinking of in terms of a life partnership and maybe you can make space, however minimal, for them to come back.

If I was really close to Becky I might at this point sound her spouse out too if I felt they were trustworthy.
posted by BibiRose at 4:47 AM on November 25, 2024 [3 favorites]


Okay, clearly Becky is going through some THINGS. It's not clear what. I do not think Alison always took the high road. Her texts read as a bit passive-aggressive to me, but she was getting some pretty nasty messages from Becky. It's all really weird. You said this is Becky's story, but you have a ton information from Alison's perspective. Alison is non-judgmental and perfect in this telling, and Becky is unhinged. I'd say Alison is highly skilled at making other people look bad. Her texts are all about what Becky did wrong. Is it possible Becky is dealing with feeling abandoned by friends and is not regulating well because of it? Also, I don't love that some in your friend group blamed Becky for her SIL's behavior. That's pretty messed up.

I think you have done your due diligence for your old agreement, but I'd continue to check in on Becky if she's your pal.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:53 PM on November 25, 2024 [4 favorites]


(I want to be clear that clearly Becky's behavior wasn't great, but it's super weird to me that Alison is getting portrayed as so perfect here too.)
posted by bluedaisy at 1:54 PM on November 25, 2024 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: Thanksgiving Follow-up: Becky’s daughter and SIL just bought a home and are permanently moving out any day now, so that makes me much less worried for Becky going forward. Hooray!

><>What's your read on Becky and the wedding of her daughter to the SIL?

Becky has unwaveringly supported her daughter’s marriage (she wants a grandbaby ASAP and believes marriage is a prerequisite), and still thinks her SIL hung the moon - while occasionally describing awful things SIL’s said/done to 3/4 of Becky’s family (except to Mr. Becky) - it’s likely cognitive dissonance. Becky and Mr. Becky also were married at age 20 and have a pretty darn fantastic marriage, so she’s certain history will repeat itself for their daughter, despite the husbands’ vastly different levels of basic character and integrity.

Was she expecting Golden Girls to speak truth to her and set her right or to get behind her choice to support her daughter and marriage?

The latter; Becky shared that her truth is SIL genuinely loves her daughter and all of them in Becky’s family, too, and that any putative “abuse” by SIL was simply due to SIL being moody and stressed out, and became less frequent when SIL got free and cut his own abusive family of origin off at age 19. The lies/manipulations they’ve caught SIL in are because he is a “people pleaser.”

“Were you all expected to attend the wedding?”

Yes and no; Becky hoped all GGs would attend, but understood that not all could afford time off work and/or to fly ({raises hand}, I live within a day’s drive and attended the ceremony only) plus some of us have totally stopped flying altogether since the pandemic ({raises hand}).

Becky privately gave no quarter to anyone who wasn’t verbally supportive of their union, and feels resentful towards at least 1 other GG, “Carrie” who initially pushed back on the idea of then-teenagers getting engaged, and stressed the importance of Becky’s daughter living on her own and playing the field in her 20s. Becky vented to some behind Carrie’s back that Carrie had kids in her 40s and was “too old to discipline her 6 yo child enough at the rehearsal dinner and reception” - “See, this is why having kids in your 20s like I did and (my daughter) will do is actually the best timing” etc. Becky never talked directly to Carrie about any of it, Becky said she “couldn’t possibly tell Carrie how to parent her own child.” Tl;dr If Becky has beef with folks she typically doesn’t want to discuss it - I accept Becky and don’t always see this as such a bad thing.

This "Son-in-law writes for her" smells like "didn't attend the zoo because of the son-in-law acting to isolate from any other supportive friendships." What's the real interaction like?

Agreed. I have never met-met SIL in depth beyond the post-ceremony receiving line. But 5/6 GGs all harbor concerns to one degree or another SIL’s a possible coercive controller. GGs “Debbie” and “Flo” have met and had more in-depth interactions with SIL that gave both of them, independently from one another, a LOT of pause because they observed he has Cluster B traits and acts like a charming lovebomber-sneaky devaluer. Flo in particular was so triggered by some of SIL’s behaviors during Becky/daughter/SIL’s visit to her city that she refused to be in the same room with him ever again (Flo was always going to be skipping their wedding anyway for Covid/no flying reasons) - Flo told Becky as delicately as possible her concerns and what to watch out for, and Becky essentially said “Flo doesn’t know SIL like I do, and Flo has a lot of divorce trauma herself from her sociopathic ex and I know Flo means well but she is projecting that ish onto SIL.” Noting here that Debbie and Flo have put in the least amount of emotional labor, time, and money towards Becky this year, and have stayed both above the fray and solidly in the group’s good graces - I envy their positionality and take this as a sign I need to keep adjusting my own boundaries.

Becky has Alison on a bit of a WEIRD pedestal right now, as folks here have correctly noted. I could relate some things about Alison to negate Becky’s (ambivalent) hagiography, but I’ll refrain. We’re all delightfully imperfect humans up in here. Crucially none are: Trumpists /transphobes /xenophobes/ antivaxxers /genocide enablers / nor climate change deniers etc, so I will keep them all in my life, as they reciprocate my friendship efforts and I’m grateful for them. Nobody knows what the future holds and it’s ok. Thanks again, all!
posted by edithkeeler at 9:08 AM on November 28, 2024 [2 favorites]


I'm afraid I have a very different reaction to this post than I expected, edith.

First off: I was extremely taken aback when you said that one of the members of your friend group (I assume that was Carrie?) voiced objections to Becky's kid getting married. Like. What? Seriously? There is such a massive difference between lovingly, supportively asking a beloved friend to protect herself financially from someone who might be taking advantage, vs. telling your beloved friend that you "don't agree with Becky's choices to keep enabling her daughter to marry an entitled jerk who has had his every move bankrolled by Becky and her husband". Phewwwwww.

At first I could not wrap my head around the fact that this even happened, let alone that apparently Carrie got no pushback from the rest of the friend group for this outrageous overstepping of her boundaries? But with the rest of the story and all of your subsequent comments, it has begun to make sense. Now I understand this incident as one of the more overt displays of hostility and dislike your friend group has shown towards Becky. There are several other hidden, subtextual, more disguised expressions of the same hostile and contemptuous attitude towards Becky from you, too, in your post and comments and I wonder if you see it? Are you aware that you've disliked her for apparently quite a long time, long before Alison's trip and the zoo day? Or are you unconscious of it?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Becky is awesome and you all are mean bullies or whatever. You have good reasons to feel that Becky has been a total asshole, you've certainly given enough evidence here of Becky being nasty to Alison when Alison seems to have been the one person who has been consistently lovely to her, and even just based on this, I understand why you want to give up on Becky. It's also totally fair that you dislike Becky for other longstanding reasons, I'm sure. You're not an unreasonable person, as far as I know you on MeFi. It is what it is, and you get to choose your friends, and you don't have to shackle yourself to someone obnoxious just because you made a pact 20 years ago when you were all babies.

However, I do feel bad for Becky after reading your post and comments, because she comes across as someone who has been treated quite egregiously by most of the people who call themselves her friends. And now, when she has apparently lost the one friend who DID like her, the person who was appointed mediator was .... biased? acting from a place of deep dislike for Becky? And so failed to do one of the basic duties of a mediator, which is to understand both sides' grievances. Because according to you, the story goes like this:

Step 1: Becky admits she didn't try to communicate or hang out during Alison's trip and the zoo day
Step 2: Becky admits that Alison consistently tried to communicate and hang out during Alison's trip and the zoo day
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Becky accuses Alison of being distant, uncommunicative, and wanting to cut Becky out of her life.

I mean, does this make any sense to you? What was Becky's complaint about Alison during Alison's trip and the zoo day? Do you know? Did you ask Becky? Did Becky tell you, but you didn't mention it here? There's this big gaping hole in the logic of this incident but you apparently felt no puzzlement nor showed any curiosity about it. Again, I get it, Becky is a piece of work... but she deserved better from the mediator of this conflict. It would be one thing if you had refused to mediate from the get go but to accept the role of mediator and then fail to count her side and her perspective entirely? That doesn't sit quite right with me.

Allow me to reiterate that I don't think you owe Becky your friendship or any more chances. I do think you owe her an apology, and perhaps an effort at amends by passing on the task of mediation to someone in your group who doesn't hate her. And I think Carrie, in particular, owes Becky a long overdue and very big apology for her outrageous behavior wrt Becky's kid's wedding. Seriously, that was not okay, and it blows my mind that you all apparently thought it was! Talk about boundary issues.
posted by MiraK at 6:39 PM on December 1, 2024


Response by poster: What was Becky's complaint about Alison during Alison's trip and the zoo day? Do you know? Did you ask Becky? Did Becky tell you, but you didn't mention it here?

I didn’t mention it here. Part of Becky’s complaint was that Alison and her kids arrived when the zoo opened, without Becky’s consent, and also Alison did not offer to pay Becky and her son’s zoo admission fees despite Becky not asking Alison to do any of the above. Becky pushed Alison away. There is nothing for me to mediate. Alison wants nothing more to do with Becky. The end.
posted by edithkeeler at 6:58 PM on December 1, 2024 [1 favorite]


> Part of Becky’s complaint was that Alison and her kids arrived when the zoo opened, without Becky’s consent and also Alison did not offer to pay Becky and her son’s zoo admission fees

Again, this doesn't seem to make any sense. Why would Becky jump from this to thinking Alison doesn't want to be her friend? If Becky admits she never made firm plans, why did she expect Alison to show up at the zoo with her? If Becky admits she never told Alison to pay for her tickets, why is she angry about this? Does Becky have dementia? Does Becky have a personality disorder? Does Becky suffer from delusions? What is your explanation for her behavior? Are you curious about what is going on in her mind, as she behaves in a manner that would be considered incredibly erratic by any standard?

> There is nothing for me to mediate. Alison wants nothing more to do with Becky. The end.

Is Becky still your friend? If she is, I do think it's not the end: she is clearly suffering and struggling with an immense loss. As her friend you do owe her a sincere attempt to actually understand her side, and (if it is still necessary after you hear her side) to hash out your feelings with her honestly, so that you can get past this gritted-teeth snarly anger stage with someone whom you are choosing to call your friend.

If she is not your friend, you need to take a leaf out of Alison's book and tell her so, because Becky deserves to hear that directly from you rather than be the recipient of a steady stream of passive-aggression and barely-concealed contempt.
posted by MiraK at 7:11 PM on December 1, 2024


Response by poster: Does Becky have dementia? Does Becky have a personality disorder? Does Becky suffer from delusions? What is your explanation for her behavior?

I am not qualified to answer that. Check out the answers I’ve marked best. Becky is my friend, and I am keeping my boundaries. Mira, you sound quite triggered here in these comments. and I don’t wish to engage here any further with you. Thanks.
posted by edithkeeler at 7:24 PM on December 1, 2024 [2 favorites]


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