Mr. Cook, open this gate! Mr. Cook, tear down this wall!
November 24, 2024 2:37 AM   Subscribe

A good friend and long time Apple user has just asked me:
Ok need IT advice…. I am sick of apple, but i have a lap top, phone, 2x airpods, and watch that are all linked… how much outlay would i bring looking at to replace all? (Obviously I’d only get one set of android earpods… one was a present), would be looking at selling all my apple gear too...


I responded:
What, specifically, has Apple done to piss you off, and how much attention are you willing to pay to what goes on under the IT hood in order to avoid the same kind of shenanigans from other suppliers?
And she said:
I honestly think its just the pure frustration of being locked into the brand, I can’t replace my phone without it being an iphone because of compatibility… if i change my laptop it needs to be a mac, because it connects to my other devices
My own digital life is Linux-based and has been constructed with avoiding vendor lock-in as the highest priority, so I can see where she's coming from and sympathise, but because I've been so assiduous in never walking into Apple's walled garden I'm not well placed to advise on walking out of it.

That said, it seems to me that there must be a less expensive, less disruptive, more incremental pathway out than just straight up dumping everything and buying all new gear. I've suggested that the most sensible first step would be to look at cutting over from any proprietary Apple application software she's currently relying upon in favour of cross-platform and preferably open source alternatives, and picking third-party specialist providers for stuff like email and online storage instead of relying on Apple's bundled offerings, but because I'm essentially a Luddite I have no real idea what the walled garden's unique selling points are in 2024.

If you used to be a committed Apple user but have since moved on, how did you go about it and what do you wish you'd done differently?
posted by flabdablet to Computers & Internet (22 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
You can use a mac laptop and an android phone. You can use airpods with an android phone. Millions of people do. It's the software and data ecosystem that's the pain in the ass, not the hardware.
posted by phunniemee at 3:21 AM on November 24 [8 favorites]


Yeah, the lock in really isn't there as much as the critics claim. My iPhone talks to my work Windows computer just fine. When I had an Android phone, it talked to my personal MacBook just fine. I'm forced to use the terrible Office 365 for everything at work, and I can use it just fine on my iPhone and MacBook if I have to.

If she doesn't like one of her current devices, I think she should just try replacing it with one she does like, and in my experience she'll find there's not any real obstacle to doing so. Some things will be annoying, like if she's used to using the Apple password manager for everything, she'll have to manage her passwords more manually. But that's just a slight inconvenience--not impossible.

(Now, also in my experience, she'll discover that a lot of other products will just feel cheap and crappy and not work as well compared to Apple products and want to switch back. But maybe not for her)
posted by hydropsyche at 3:43 AM on November 24 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: An Apple Watch without its own cellular connection (which is the kind she has) is pretty useless without an iPhone though, yes?
posted by flabdablet at 3:52 AM on November 24 [2 favorites]


Looks like that's true. I don't have an Apple Watch, so I didn't know about that one. Sorry. If that's the part that bugs her the most, switching to some other smart watch might be a good starting point. I have a Garmin and previously had a Fitbit, and both will work with iPhone or Android.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:18 AM on November 24 [2 favorites]


I think the phone is maybe the stickiest part here. Would seem easy enough to sell earpods, laptop & watch and replace with equivalents (or with nothing - which is the ultimate way to avoid vendor lock-in). Maybe with phone only from the apple world, your friend might feel less like a captive - but that’s replaceable too, esp. once there are fewer other components intrinsically linked to it.
posted by rd45 at 4:35 AM on November 24 [1 favorite]


You've likely thought of this yourself already, but if it's an Intel macbook she could (have someone) put in a fresh SSD, install some friendly flavour of Linux on it and go from there (LibreOffice, phone connectivity, etc.). Asahi Linux for the M1 appears to be still well more than a little rough around the edges, so not really an option yet.

The old SSD would be a relatively easy way going back.
posted by Stoneshop at 4:37 AM on November 24 [1 favorite]


(or with nothing - which is the ultimate way to avoid vendor lock-in)

a) some people really want a laptop, having a proper screen and keyboard. b) I've never ran into vendor lock in with the (by now over 30) ThinkPad laptops we own or installed for others, except the very occasional specific IBM/Lenovo wifi or 3G card that some models needed, but that's almost entirely a thing of the past.
posted by Stoneshop at 4:58 AM on November 24 [1 favorite]


I don't think incremental is the way to do this. It seems to me that having one foot in the walled garden, and one foot outside, is the exactly most annoying place to be because then nothing works together anymore.

I would (as mentioned above) convert the Macbook (if possible) to Linux, and dump the phone and the smartwatch. Tons of good Android-compatible smartwatches out there.
Compared to Apple, everything is so much cheaper that the cost isn't a big problem here. And if you're not used to Windows, there is not much difference between switching to Windows or switching to a suitable Linux.

If she is not ready or willing to embrace Google instead of Apple, she could consider a deGoogled Android (which you can probably help her with). Or even an alternative phone OS. It's a wide world out there.

There will be a certain amount of disruption as well as a learning curve. There will probably also be an overwhelming sense of freedom.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:02 AM on November 24 [1 favorite]


Even the kind of Apple Watch *with* a cellular connection doesn't really work without an iPhone to set it up/do some maintenance tasks, in my experience, so Apple Watch pretty much locks you into having at least two Apple devices.
posted by mskyle at 5:19 AM on November 24 [2 favorites]


I use a Motorola wireless headset and a set of off brand earbuds with my iPhone and iPad and several other brands of bluetooth speakers. I also use Windows computers for the most part. I have an old Mac and use any random mouse with it. I don't see the lock in aside from watches, which are easily sold.

As far as software, I really like Firefox Sync for keeping bookmarks and for sending tabs to other devices.
posted by soelo at 5:38 AM on November 24 [2 favorites]


Airpods will work with any Bluetooth device (source: Airpod owner who has an Android phone). Not all the features work, I don't think, but they connect and play audio just fine. So in her place I'd be happy to leave replacing those until last.
posted by altolinguistic at 6:29 AM on November 24 [2 favorites]


Vendor lock-in takes many forms. In Apple's case, it extends to many services you take for granted, like backup, photos, bookmarks, and things that seem like background noise, yet without them, you will immediately hit a wall.
I've entirely migrated to Linux, with brief forays into Windows when necessary. Yet I still support my partner with a Mac Airbook and iPhone, and I have my own archives of Apple photos, music, and what have you.
Extracting my stuff from the walled garden has taken a while as there is a certain reluctance to delve into these systems and figure out how to export your property from a vendor with a fixed interest in renting your information to you as a service.
The final straw for me was realizing that, unlike Android, the iPad has no file system you can utilize directly. Apple has hidden or obfuscated the file system into a melange of hacks and transfer functions designed to make the iPad an extension of Apple's iCloud ecosystem. You can't even give the thing away without Apple's permission. Do I even own it?
So, the cost of transferring is the hardware plus the time it takes to ensure you have all the data and services you need and want to move to another OS and hardware. That beautiful Apple front end comes at the cost of the vendor renting curated computing services.
posted by diode at 7:01 AM on November 24 [4 favorites]


TLDR: watch then phone.

I have a house full of tech. I generally prefer Apple, everything else is generally more of a chore to use, and I work in IT and really don’t enjoy things if they start to feel like work to use. I also have a higher level of confidence in Apple handling my data. I have shepherded hundreds of people through smaller tech transitions than this, it’s a non trivial process.

But apple has its own limitation so here is what I currently have that I recommend without reservation - a Lenovo X1 carbon that is equivalent to the apple laptop and is a joy to use. I also prefer Sony WH-1000XM line of noise canceling headphones and we have 3! generations of the line in our house. The spouse wanted the apple AirPods and now does not so that is likely another one!

I think of my tech in terms of life cycles. Anything with a battery I expect it to see about a thousand charges before the chemical degradation of the battery starts to make a noticeable or significant impact on it. For something with daily use that’s about three years.

I generally keep my kit longer but I would consider, even if budget isn’t a major constraint, making a transition piecemeal around an accelerated lifecycle is the way to go. Part of this is that there really isn’t a unified approach outside of the Apple world, and what I mean is that learning to use an android phone doesn’t carry over to learning how to use a windows or Unix system. Dumping all the apple kit at once would mean having to learn all these completely different systems all at once. Like sure, my Sony headphones work on Bluetooth no fuss, but to get the EQ and customization I need the app and oh there a firmware update? First ones isn’t a chore, but all of these dodads?

So all other considerations equal I would start with the watch. It is the most dependent on apple eco system. Then I think it’s the iPhone that is the load bearing element- it’s central piece through which everything flows. Switching that out would mean migration of my digital life, and also dealing with a cell phone provider, getting a different contactless payment, in addition to all the apps to make all my other stuff let my phone boss it around.

The other benefit to piecemeal watch/phone first approach is that they can still switch back, if they want.
posted by zenon at 7:06 AM on November 24 [2 favorites]


Has she used Windows lately? Because it’s increasingly nagging you into using all of its cloud services, assistants, etc. Windows 11 created an enormous amount of ewaste by requiring a Trusted Platform Module. It’s annoying enough that my dad, who has used Windows for decades, is switching back to a Mac with the next laptop. Linux is good now, and it’s what I run on my personal machine, but if she needs tech support, it might be harder to find.

Basically, you can entrust your digital life to Apple, Google, or maybe Microsoft or you can deal with an unending frustrating stream of incompatibilities and 2FA partly intended to make you pick one. I don’t love Apple’s model, but at least their stuff “just works.”
posted by momus_window at 8:28 AM on November 24 [1 favorite]


I have an iPhone because I needed a specific app that's now available on Android. The phone is built well and has quite a bit of life remaining, though the old Android phone is still useful for reading news. I do not experience the just works; there are likely tons of features I'm not aware of. I hate being locked in to an ecosystem from 1 expensive vendor.

I prefer a keyboard to a mouse because, tendinitis, and there are some functions on a Mac that require a mouse. A Mac specialist tried hard to find options and failed. This was at least 10+ years ago, though.

I use Windows laptops- refurb Lenovo Thinkpads off ebay or wherever. Sturdy, reliable, easy to repair or upgrade. I do not require a super-thin or sexy-looking device. I like having ports. Windows is also super-annoying. We live in a world where we are relentlessly marketed to. I hates this reality, shrug.

Would like an apple watch for health reasons, but not in any hurry to spend 350US+.
May get airpods as hearing aid backups because hearing aids are roughly equivalent to airpods, are stupid expensive, a worse closed environment than iOS.

I'm okay with mixed setup. I wish I could use apple texting from my laptop, but, whatever. iCloud is super annoying and I ignore it. I would be more likely to replace things as needed with a good alternative; an abrupt change may be really difficult.
posted by theora55 at 8:44 AM on November 24 [1 favorite]


Since the “lock in” your friend describes is just that everything works so well together, decide on how much of your time you want to dedicate to being this person’s personal IT support before making any recommendations.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:13 AM on November 24


Response by poster: I wish I could use apple texting from my laptop, but, whatever.

On that front, at least, I inserted a foot in the walled garden's door some years back: she asked me this question over Keybase, which in my view remains the best e2ee messaging app available and therefore the only one I can be arsed to use.

The client is open source and cross-platform (Linux, Windows, Mac OS, iOS, Android). Encryption is not only on by default but can't be turned off. Messages can optionally be sent with timed self-destruction and perfect forward secrecy. Multi-device support is seamless so there's no security hole opened by key resets on new devices. Messages sent without self-destruction remain retrievable indefinitely by both sender and all recipients via any device. Senders retain the ability to edit and/or destroy any message they sent. Mobile clients prevent on-device screen capture, though they obviously can't do anything about capture via external cameras. Identity relationships between Keybase and other services are provable, and messages can be addressed via any of those linked identities. Nuisance senders can be blocked. Passwordless login just works. Group chat support, both public and private, is flexible and comprehensive. Free accounts come with 250GB of online storage.

It doesn't run on versions of Apple's operating systems that are now too old to get security updates, and expecting other people to bother trying it requires being the kind of ornery prick who won't use anything else, but, whatever.
posted by flabdablet at 9:43 AM on November 24 [2 favorites]


You already know the only way out of walled gardens is open source software. And if you want to be really, really free, self-hosting that open source software. Every major company is playing the same walled garden game with their software. Apple just has the most hardware, too.

I bought a macbook recently because of that hardware quality and battery life. I exclusively install and use software from homebrew. It's all the same software I use in linux, open source or otherwise. Libreoffice, Firefox, VLC, Steam, Signal, etc. You can even install a nice graphical frontend store called Applite.

I scoff at all the three month free trials that came with my machine. I don't use the apple app store, arcade, music, tv, or store anything in icloud. I've purchased nothing, even for free. The only icloud feature I have turned on is find my device.

I don't feel like I am locked in on this apple hardware because I don't use that apple software. I will use asahi linux when my macos updates run out in a few years.
posted by Snijglau at 9:58 AM on November 24 [3 favorites]


momus_window: I don’t love Apple’s model, but at least their stuff “just works.”

Until it drops out of support, whether it would still be eminently usable or not.

At least two of my ThinkPads I regularly use are well beyond what Cook (and Nadella[0]) deem acceptable, having a dozen years each on them. They still run fine, they're up to date on fixes, and perform the jobs I use them for. There's no one but me who directly decides to sideline them.

[0] Didn't he once say that W10 would be the last version jump? Well, they're up two more now; so much for that.
posted by Stoneshop at 10:16 AM on November 24 [3 favorites]


Rather than dumping everything, she should take stock of why she wants to use something else.

If she's just "mad at Apple," she may end up being just as dissatisfied with whatever she switches to. (Says the person who decided to tell Microsoft/Dell to go stuff themselves, bought a Mac, and three months later went crawling back because the software I want to use and the key combos I know are on Windows. I like the Mac and might even love it after years of reprogramming myself, but I want to get shit done now.)

She might love Linux, but that's a big "might," and she too may just want to get shit done now.

Apple accepts trade-ins for many devices, if she's worried about her iPhone getting elderly. For the best offer, it's best to trade before it gets too elderly, although I understand why people want to keep devices.

As others have noted, she can pick and choose whatever she likes best, aside from the Watch/iPhone pair, which is a necessary evil no matter which Apple Watch you get. There's a way around that with a family setup, but it's basically for kids, and someone in charge is still gonna need the iPhone. But people use Garmin or Samsung watches, even with iPhones, maybe not with full functionality. I'm "mad at Google," but I still have a Voice number, because I'm not cutting off my nose just yet.

Honestly, of all the universes, she could do a lot worse than just keeping what she's got.
posted by sageleaf at 10:50 AM on November 24 [1 favorite]


If you'e tempted into Asahi Linux on Apple Silicon hardware, be warned that it best supports M1 machines and has only partial M2 support.

Vendor lock-in is real in the Apple world, but some people don't see it as a problem (as your friend does), because the walled garden works. Microsoft can try to create such an ecosystem, but such wide variability in hardware will always make it challenging.

If I were to do this, my first move would be to replace the phone and watch. The phone is really the center of the Apple universe, and the Apple Watch cannot operate without a phone to manage it. After that, consider the computer, which could be the replacement for both a laptop and an iPad, if she chooses a convertible laptop, though Windows will never be as good a mobile OS as iPadOS is. The MacBooks work perfectly well as general purpose computing machines and are no more locked in to particular ecosystems than Windows devices are. Just be aware that Windows users are being dragged into an ecosystem that Microsoft would like to see as closed as Apple's. The only thing that prevents Windows PCs and Apple machines being as closed as iPads and iPhones is the legacy of their operating systems.

I recently too the plunge into using my AirPod Pros with my work laptop, which is Windows 11, and was pleased at how well they worked. Similarly, a pair of Bose QuietComfort wireless earbuds I received as a gift several years ago work just fine with my Apple equipment.

Linux, I think, is still a minefield for a naive user; better and better all the time, but it's easy to fall into an open pit and lose your wifi or graphics until you (with or without the help of a friend) crawl out of the hole.
posted by lhauser at 12:53 PM on November 24


Response by poster: Thanks for all the thoughtful and considered responses received so far.

What I'm specifically looking for here, though, is advice from people who used to use Apple gear exclusively and have since broadened their horizons. Sorry if the question didn't make that clear.
posted by flabdablet at 8:12 PM on November 24 [1 favorite]


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