Oops I Bricked My House
November 17, 2024 6:00 AM Subscribe
Ran too many appliances at the same time last night, overloaded my kitchen, and now one of my outlets is dead. Is there anything I can try before having to pay for an electrician?
The outlet is an unremarkable GFCI similar to this one.
Last night, I ran too many things at once and two outlets in my kitchen shut off. I went down to the breaker box in the basement (it hadn't tripped) and turned the kitchen off and back on again. One outlet came back, the other didn't.
The light on the GFCI is green (it was off before I reset the breaker). I poked the test and reset buttons several times (green light go off, green light come back on), but no dice. It still won't power anything I put into either socket. Thoughts? I will not be touching any wires thank you.
The outlet is an unremarkable GFCI similar to this one.
Last night, I ran too many things at once and two outlets in my kitchen shut off. I went down to the breaker box in the basement (it hadn't tripped) and turned the kitchen off and back on again. One outlet came back, the other didn't.
The light on the GFCI is green (it was off before I reset the breaker). I poked the test and reset buttons several times (green light go off, green light come back on), but no dice. It still won't power anything I put into either socket. Thoughts? I will not be touching any wires thank you.
It's probably time to call an electrician if you're not willing to replace the outlet yourself. In theory a green light means everything is copacetic but in practice GFCI outlets are unpredictable beasties and for some a green light could just mean that the fault detection circuit is working but it doesn't tell you whether the outlet itself is functional. (Like, if your hot line to the outlet has melted/burned part of the outlet or come disconnected you won't get any power but the fault detection circuit works by checking for current differences between the hot output and the neutral return, and if there's no connection in the back of the outlet there's no current so, hey! No current difference therefore no "fault". Even though your outlet is obviously not passing power.)
posted by soundguy99 at 6:50 AM on November 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by soundguy99 at 6:50 AM on November 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Incredible. I found a tripped GFCI outlet in the (demo'd former kitchen of the former illegal apartment) in my basement. Reset it and I'm back, baby. Thank you!!
I swear to god all the previous owners of this house must have had "a brother in law who's an electrician" right back to the 60s.
posted by phunniemee at 6:56 AM on November 17, 2024 [34 favorites]
I swear to god all the previous owners of this house must have had "a brother in law who's an electrician" right back to the 60s.
posted by phunniemee at 6:56 AM on November 17, 2024 [34 favorites]
Good work, but I'm wondering where the upstairs socket got juice to power the green light when the downstairs GFCI was tripped.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:14 AM on November 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by SemiSalt at 5:14 AM on November 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
Good work, but I'm wondering where the upstairs socket got juice to power the green light when the downstairs GFCI was tripped.
Yeah. If it was the downstairs GFCI which tripped, there should not have been a green led light on the upstairs GFCI. If you could turn the green light off and on by pressing the "Test" and "Reset" buttons, then the outlet should have had power. Are you sure it was the same outlet with the little green light that was dead before you reset the GFCI downstairs?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:46 AM on November 18, 2024
Yeah. If it was the downstairs GFCI which tripped, there should not have been a green led light on the upstairs GFCI. If you could turn the green light off and on by pressing the "Test" and "Reset" buttons, then the outlet should have had power. Are you sure it was the same outlet with the little green light that was dead before you reset the GFCI downstairs?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:46 AM on November 18, 2024
I am not an electrician, but I know there are some very eldritch behaviors that can manifest when two-phase power distribution is paired with sloppy work (or even old work--there are wiring methods that were once commonly used which have since been banned).
You should probably get a professional in to survey things.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:01 AM on November 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
You should probably get a professional in to survey things.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:01 AM on November 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I think you're assuming that my house is wired in a normal way that makes sense but actually it's wired like this.
posted by phunniemee at 7:50 AM on November 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by phunniemee at 7:50 AM on November 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
No, I'm not.
Google 'multi-wire branch circuits' for all sorts of strange, non-intuitive behavior. Basically there used to be a technique where electricians would be cheap and use a single neutral wire to carry the return current for two different circuits that were on different phases. If done improperly, this can lead to some serious safety problems with superficially "dead" outlets still posing a danger to anyone working on them.
The fix as you described it doesn't make any sense, and there's the possibility that this has exposed a much more subtle problem.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:29 AM on November 18, 2024
Google 'multi-wire branch circuits' for all sorts of strange, non-intuitive behavior. Basically there used to be a technique where electricians would be cheap and use a single neutral wire to carry the return current for two different circuits that were on different phases. If done improperly, this can lead to some serious safety problems with superficially "dead" outlets still posing a danger to anyone working on them.
The fix as you described it doesn't make any sense, and there's the possibility that this has exposed a much more subtle problem.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:29 AM on November 18, 2024
My hypothesis is that the GFCI in the basement is on one phase and when it tripped, it broke the shared neutral and one hot of the MWBC.
The GFCI in the kitchen is on the other phase and was still getting power from the other hot wire, but nothing you plugged in worked because the neutral was severed by the GFCI in the basement. The little LED light on the kitchen outlet remained lit because it's powered by a trickle current that goes from hot to ground.
If this is the case, you need to check that both legs of the MWBC are connected to adjacent circuit breakers in your panel and that they have been physically bridged so that they both trip at the same time.
Get a professional in.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:49 AM on November 18, 2024
The GFCI in the kitchen is on the other phase and was still getting power from the other hot wire, but nothing you plugged in worked because the neutral was severed by the GFCI in the basement. The little LED light on the kitchen outlet remained lit because it's powered by a trickle current that goes from hot to ground.
If this is the case, you need to check that both legs of the MWBC are connected to adjacent circuit breakers in your panel and that they have been physically bridged so that they both trip at the same time.
Get a professional in.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:49 AM on November 18, 2024
I swear to god all the previous owners of this house must have had "a brother in law who's an electrician" right back to the 60s.
If I recall correctly, you're in Chicago, our national capital of I Know A Guy, so you're almost certainly correct. Except almost none of those brothers-in-law were probably actually electricians...so definitely time to get a professional in.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:41 AM on November 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
If I recall correctly, you're in Chicago, our national capital of I Know A Guy, so you're almost certainly correct. Except almost none of those brothers-in-law were probably actually electricians...so definitely time to get a professional in.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:41 AM on November 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
Daisy chained GFCIs (where the load side of the first GFCI is feeding the line/input side of the second) can cause all sorts of weird symptoms. While not illegal to wire them that way it isn't best practice and it isn't any more dangerous than properly wired GFCIs be a use the failure modes are all "No power".
This is "fixed" by pigtailing the basement GFCI but that can also, depending on how old is old, make your system less safe if the GFCI is protecting a three pronged receptacle at an ungrounded outlet.
TL;DR: Your electrical system isn't necessarily unsafe. If you have the money having an electrician give it a once over would let you know where you stand (but that is true for almost all properties) and if this behaviour is your only symptom I wouldn't worry about it.
posted by Mitheral at 4:03 PM on November 18, 2024
This is "fixed" by pigtailing the basement GFCI but that can also, depending on how old is old, make your system less safe if the GFCI is protecting a three pronged receptacle at an ungrounded outlet.
TL;DR: Your electrical system isn't necessarily unsafe. If you have the money having an electrician give it a once over would let you know where you stand (but that is true for almost all properties) and if this behaviour is your only symptom I wouldn't worry about it.
posted by Mitheral at 4:03 PM on November 18, 2024
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posted by mmascolino at 6:34 AM on November 17, 2024 [24 favorites]