Moving to a blue state. Which city is better?
November 14, 2024 8:17 AM   Subscribe

Currently considering cities in Washington State or Minnesota. Any insights welcome.

Two years ago, I posted about moving to the Seattle area. Sadly, we weren't able to make it work out due to my husband's job. Well, now staying in Arizona isn't feasible for us and we are looking again. This time on just my salary if needs be, since I work from home and can work from anywhere in the U.S.

So, where do we move?

And yes, I realize how incredibly privileged we are to be able to even consider doing this. Mr. Objects and I want to have a home big enough that we can, at least temporarily, host our friends or family who might also need to leave Arizona on short notice in the future. And please, please don't come at me for this decision. Politics isn't the only reason...my SAD has been getting worse every summer, and this last one was basically unbearable. I was seriously depressed basically from June through....now...

Currently I'm considering Spokane, WA or Rochester, MN. I know there are plenty of other good cities in both Washington State and Minnesota, I just...don't know about them?? Feel free to leave suggestions please. Just needs very good high-speed internet so I can continue to work from home.

Pros for Spokane: Very close to the Canadian border, milder climate, better outdoor activities, not an 'isolated' blue state like MN is.

Pros for Rochester: Home of the Mayo Clinic where I currently get all my healthcare needs taken care of in AZ branch, good schools...everywhere?, comparable housing is at least $100K cheaper in Rochester than Spokane.

We'd love to live closer to Seattle/Tacoma, but on one salary we simply cannot afford the house prices, even with the equity we'll get from selling our current home.
posted by sharp pointy objects to Travel & Transportation (32 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
As someone who lives in the great lakes region, I like the relative climate stability of the great lakes region. I grew up under regular threat of hurricanes and I feel the peace of my relative climate stability.
posted by phunniemee at 8:21 AM on November 14, 2024 [3 favorites]


Spokane is not going to feel like living in a blue state. At all. Eastern Washington is more culturally aligned with Idaho than Seattle.
posted by HotToddy at 8:41 AM on November 14, 2024 [50 favorites]


Just a word of caution on Spokane; it is in a very red part of Washington state. The state overall leans blue, but that is largely because of the populous urban areas on the west side. Some very dear friends moved to Spokane a couple years ago for the lower cost of living and to be closer to Eastern Washingon U. As a queer + trans household, it has been a real challenge for them, and they can't wait to get out. :(

Bellingham is also near the Canadian border, and is a fairly hip college town, but is starting to get expensive, at least for renters. Here in Anacortes, the city offers municipal fiber optic service and it is fantastic, but the cost of living here just keeps going up.
posted by xedrik at 8:42 AM on November 14, 2024 [8 favorites]


Best answer: Minnesota is very rural, so a lot of the "cities" are only a few thousand people and quite red. Rochester is a good choice, but it only has 120K people in it, it's not a city in the way Seattle is a city and it's about half the size of Spokane. Minneapolis/St Paul are an hour drive away, which isn't too bad. If you go any direction other than towards the Twin Cities out of Rochester, you're going to encounter a threatening number of Trump signs, flags, pickups, etc., even outside of the election season. Not trying to scare you out of moving to Minnesota, just trying to give you a scope of things, and I suspect rural Washington is just as bad. I live in Moorhead MN, just across the river from Fargo ND, and we're a blue island in a sea of red too, and generally we feel safe but there's a lot of people who show their Trump support on the outside.

The cold is very oppressive; the south of Minnesota is relatively moderate, but my wife from Milwaukee moved here and finds the cold difficult to deal with sometimes. Coming from Arizona, it's going to be a shock. Buy a parka, like, going-to-Antarctica parka. You won't wear it all the time but when you do need it, it will be a godsend.

You might want to consider the Twin Cities instead -- not the outlying suburbs which tend to lean red due to white flight and general ruralness, and even within the city the population density is relatively low but still blue.
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:44 AM on November 14, 2024 [4 favorites]


We moved to Bremerton,WA with just my income. It is a 30 minute foot ferry or hour car ferry from Seattle. I don't know your budget but was able to get a big enough house for the occasional guest and a nice yard for less than 500k less than a year ago. A LOT more blue than Spokane but less so than Seattle.
posted by stormygrey at 8:54 AM on November 14, 2024 [7 favorites]


Best answer: I've lived in Minnesota my whole life. Rochester is not as blue as the Twin Cities or Duluth, but it is more blue than St. Cloud or Fargo/Moorhead. I have not lived there, but I know there are many people from other states there due to Mayo. They also don't have a big college campus like a lot of the other cities do. I am sure Mayo brings in a lot of students, though. You might be happy in some of the south and/or eastern suburbs of the Twin Cities. It is a quick drive down to Mayo from there. The SE corner of Minnesota has fewer lakes than the rest of the state due to the lack of glacial activity. It is still beautiful with the bluffs, just a little different. More hills and winding roads, whereas the rest of the state has a lot of flat land with farms and straight roads plus a ton of lakes.

I've never felt that Minnesota was an isolated blue state since Wisconsin is pretty purple and Illinois is close by. We also have a lot of influence on the border areas of Iowa and the Dakotas. When you say your SAD gets bad in the summer, I'd caution that Minnesota summers are pretty hot and humid. Even though they are not as hot as Arizona, the humidity is real and affects some of my friends. I also feel like we get very dry winters, but never having lived in the desert, that might not be true.

Spokane is in the middle of eastern Washington and near Idaho - both very red areas. If housing there is even more expensive than SE Minnesota, I'd cross that one out totally. I have family that used to live in Vancouver, Washington - which is basically in the suburbs of Portland, OR. While it does lack in racial diversity and has plenty of covert racism, it is a much better border than the one with Idaho in my opinion.
posted by soelo at 9:01 AM on November 14, 2024 [5 favorites]


Just agreeing with everyone else that Spokane is not blue. It's the greenbeans side!
posted by atomicstone at 9:06 AM on November 14, 2024


Agreed that Spokane is fairly red, as is the rest of Eastern Washington. You mention an advantage is being close to the Canadian border. What do you want to do in Canada? If you like small towns, mountains and skiing, that's a good part of Canada to cross into (I live there, it's pleasant), but if you want to get to any major cities, Spokane is still a long way from Vancouver or Calgary. If you want to go to Vancouver, for instance, you'd be driving to Seattle first.
posted by ssg at 9:11 AM on November 14, 2024


I'm a life-long Minnesotan and would not hesitate to move to Rochester -- it's cheap and pleasant and has a decently high-tech economy. Local businesses (esp. Mayo) have invested huge amounts of money into livability in order to encourage people to move to what is otherwise perceived as the sticks. It also has at least one really good pizza place!

Caveat 1: most people in Minnesota are already from Minnesota, so it can be tough to break into new social circles. A lot of relationships are based on background at a MN university, or history in some outstate town. You will need to really work at making friends.

Caveat 2: Minnesota has the most dramatic seasonal swings that you can imagine. My SAD issues tend to be around fall/winter rather than hot weather, but summer days in MN are longer than you're used to, and winter days much shorter and darker. Fall and Spring here might hit you like a ton of bricks.
posted by eraserbones at 9:12 AM on November 14, 2024 [9 favorites]


If you need another negative for Spokane, it can be terribly smokey due to wildfires that happen with alarming frequency.
posted by MadMadam at 9:36 AM on November 14, 2024


I have another idea for Washington state: Bellingham WA. it's a town 1.5 or 2 hours north of Seattle, with a population of around 100k. It has fantastic outdoor activities (Puget Sound, Mt Baker, the north cascades) and is near to Canada. Politically, it's blue-ish in the center, and purple in the suburbs.

It has fairly good infrastructure for its size, so you probably wouldn't need to go to Seattle that often (the airport is the notable exception; there are only a few regional jet flights from BLI.
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 10:08 AM on November 14, 2024


We're doing this math with a heavy weighting for climate considerations and MN wins that race based on long-term precipitation confidence.

I'd call it hair-splitting, though, and you might consider what it is you like to do with your free time as part of the equation. We've been traveling the country for over two years trying to figure out what we like best (along with the rest of the considerations) and I turn out to be a mountains person and have mostly ruled out the midwest for that reason, though there's a constellation of small cute college towns in Illinois that I still want to spend some time exploring, and you might want to check out that area as well.

I don't think Spokane is entirely without charm, but it's the cheapest part of an expensive state for a reason.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:13 AM on November 14, 2024


I've been a Rochester resident for over a decade and an east coast transplant to MN for over 20 years now. It's a good place to live. Internet access is fine ( there's Spectrum cable and Metronet fiber ). Most Mayo IT workers are remote but live in and around Rochester ( left offices during Covid and never returned ). Remote work is totally viable. I'm not a targeted demographic, but I have kids who are and at least in (middle and high) school that hasn't been an issue for them. The worst I've seen is a pickup truck with flags and that was around the election and rare enough to be striking.

It can get cold, winters are long, but by most accounts getting milder ( perks of global warming ... ). Spring / Summer / Fall are really nice and there are plenty of parks and trails to help you get out and about. Rochester has everything we need, but Minneapolis / St. Paul has more options for everything ( plus the sort of challenges larger cities bring ). Definitely consider there as well.

There's a rochester forum on reddit you might want to check out. Feel free to reach out to me via MeFi mail if you want to talk things over.
posted by roue at 10:42 AM on November 14, 2024 [3 favorites]


eraserbones, you make good points. (I'm a St. Paul kid, but I live in New England now.) There are a good number of out-of-towners in Roch who work at Mayo and IBM, but they're probably not enough to fully change the character of the town: see here -- and the list drops off quickly. :7)

I would encourage OP to take a weekend there to see what it's like, culturally. The weather is four wholly different seasons, and it's glorious.

My family is all still in and around St. Paul, and personally I'd move there in a second: good food & beer, an international airport, many colleges, good schools for little ones, excellent hospitals, strong cultural organizations, and access to nature.
posted by wenestvedt at 10:42 AM on November 14, 2024 [1 favorite]


I live in Olympia, WA, so that's my background. I think that SAD considerations for western WA are that our summers have extremely long days of sunlight (think 6:30am to 9:30pm), but that they are pretty temperate with only the occasional heat wave. Most older housing does not have AC, but that's changing as our summers continue to warm up. Our winters are the opposite, the sun doesn't rise until 8:30am (after Standard time starts), and will go down around 4:30pm. More people have difficulty with the dark than with the cold weather.

If you're looking to be close to Canada, Bellingham and north of there are the cities to look at. Bellingham, with Western Washington University, will likely be the most tolerant in that area, but there are enough remote Seattle workers around that most areas are blue/purple unless you get to the rural towns. It's also just a lovely place to live.

If you look south of Olympia, there are a few relatively lower COL cities like Tenino, Chehalis, Centralia. Each has their plusses and minuses, all are in much more rural surroundings that lean red or are outright red in political outlook. Even Olympia, as blue as it is, has problems with racial and gender intolerance at the high schools, for instance. Depending on your overall reasons for leaving AZ, you should research carefully. A lot of cities have reddit sub-reddits that it can be worthwhile to explore. I know the r/Olympia sub gets tons of questions from people looking to move here and people usually give helpful answers.
posted by drossdragon at 10:52 AM on November 14, 2024 [1 favorite]


I live in Spokane. The bigger issue is that it's not a big city. Despite that it carries much of the high cost of living as our neighbors on the west side. Gas is cheaper, energy is cheaper (mostly renewable), but most other things, including home prices, are nearly as expensive as the west side.
The area seemed very much less overtly Trumpist during this election cycle. I saw lots of Harris signs, many fewer trucks with flags, etc. , but deep red Idaho is very much right next door.

If Spokane is anything it's a healthcare town. The southside is dominated by 2 well regarded hospitals that are a major economic driver in the area.

A lot of people moved to this area during covid, but there is still very little traffic, the thing I miss the least after having lived just north of Seattle for 22 years. I have no plans to move back, because Spokane is beautiful and nature and skiing are close by.

You might want to consider Yakima or Tri-cities for affordability if you decide on Washington.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:48 AM on November 14, 2024 [1 favorite]


Oh wow - my initial thought was "Washington is a Blue state, but thats the coast. Eastern Washington... no". Thats just coming from a canadian neighbour up here in Vancouver, BC though.

Have you looked at Belllingham, WA perhaps? Right up next against the Canadian border, blue WA coast, and google says house prices are 30% less than Seattle area. It's small but close enough to Seattle for major things, and close enough to BC's lower mainland for all our cool outdoorsy things as well.
posted by cgg at 12:06 PM on November 14, 2024


Response by poster: A couple clarifications: In summer in AZ the sun normally rises around 5am and doesn't set until almost 8pm. It isn't the length of day that's the issue, it is the fact that it never, ever cools off. If it's 110F during the day, it'll at best be 90F+ at night. And the sunlight just hits different here. It's hard to explain if you've never experienced it, but the intensity is just...wow. It's super easy for me to get migraines if i spend too long outdoors.
So long summer days on their own aren't a deterrent.

I should have mentioned that one of my main drivers is rainfall. I love the rain, and the last time we were promised rain here in the Valley a few weeks ago...and it never happened, I had a really difficult time not ending the day in tears.

Unfortunately, while Bellingham is gorgeous, it's outside of our price range of up to around $500K, though keeping it under $450K would be best, that is the hard part of looking near the coast!
posted by sharp pointy objects at 12:37 PM on November 14, 2024


the sun normally rises around 5am and doesn't set until almost 8pm

Moving to higher latitudes makes days longer in the summer and nights longer in the winter -- fireworks for the 4th of July usually don't start until 10:00pm and the western horizon is still light then. For winter, right now I drive to work in the dark and go home in the dark, and the solstice is still 6 weeks away.
posted by AzraelBrown at 1:04 PM on November 14, 2024 [2 favorites]


Depending on how big your city needs to be, you might consider the north side of the Olympic Peninsula. It's generally cheap, it's got mountains right there (and Hurricane Hill is an easy drive if you want to be in the middle of them), and I have tech friends who WFH up there. Canada is an easy ferry ride away.

It's not really city life, more town life, though. Also it's in the Olympic Mountains rain shadow so not as much rain as the rest of Western Washington.
posted by Bryant at 1:24 PM on November 14, 2024 [1 favorite]


I should have mentioned that one of my main drivers is rainfall. I love the rain

Spokane is pretty dry in the summer and doesn't get a tonne of precipitation the rest of the year (and some of what it does get is snow rather than rain). It is much, much drier overall than Seattle or anywhere else on the west side of the Cascades. If rain is a big factor for you, Spokane isn't the place you want to be. It's a completely different climate from the wet part of Washington.
posted by ssg at 1:28 PM on November 14, 2024


If you want blue and rain, come west of the Cascades. You'll get plenty. Look at Tacoma (smells normal now! And get a buffer between you and JBLM) and Everett, or as others mentioned, along the coast of the Olympic peninsula. Spokane is a cool place on its own merits but I would really suggest coming to the other side of the mountains.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 2:53 PM on November 14, 2024 [1 favorite]


If you're looking for rain in WA, you'll be happiest to the west of the cascades. The eastern part of the state is essentially a desert. The sun is still _far_ less intense than Arizona, but the east side of the state is low on rain and clouds.
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 2:54 PM on November 14, 2024


Best answer: I'm a Minnesota native and current St. Paul resident. I really can't say enough good things about St. Paul, though obviously it's a big city and struggles with related issues (e.g. unhoused folks, crime in certain areas, etc.). Our mayor is doing some really great and progressive things for the city, like a reparations commission, abolishing medical debt for over 30K residents, etc. I'm plugged into several great leftist volunteer orgs in the area, too. It feels like a really safe, supportive place to ride out the next four years.

My sister has some complex health problems and gets all her care at Mayo, so she's constantly driving from the Twin Cities down to Rochester. I think it's about 75 minutes or so, depending on traffic; she says it's an easy drive.

Minnesota is often in a drought, but you'll DEFINITELY see more rain than you would in AZ. And actually, we had an INSANELY rainy spring and summer and officially got out of our drought, which was great! I think the winters have gotten milder since I was a kid, but coming from Arizona, you are going to be COLD. That said, one of my closest friends grew up in AZ and has lived in St. Paul for 10 years now, and they do just fine. (Mostly because they have native Minnesotans to coach them on how to layer, heh.)

If you're looking to buy a house, I have no idea whether St. Paul is out of your price range. I managed to buy a 2/1 for about $200K; I think stuff in my neighborhood averages in the $250K - $300K range. Rochester should be cheaper, though I've never lived there so I can't speak to that. If you're interested in asking questions about the Twin Cities real estate market, I'd be happy to connect you with the realtor I used 2 years ago.

Another city people love is Duluth, which is about 2.5 hours north of the Twin Cities, right on Lake Superior. (There have been several recent articles about how people are moving there to escape climate change.) I haven't spent a ton of time there; I'm sure there are liberal folks, but you're going to get more of a mix of red/blue than you would in the Cities which is more solidly blue. That said, it's even colder in Duluth than it is here, plus it's very hilly which makes winter driving not super fun.
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 4:05 PM on November 14, 2024 [2 favorites]


You might consider Thurston County (Olympia, state capital, is in Thurston County) and south/west of it. Things are a little cheaper down this way compared to Tacoma/Seattle. It is raining in Tumwater (next to Olympia) as I type this. I would say drossdragon's description of this area is very accurate, including regarding the Reddit community for Olympia. I've lived in Bellingham, too. It's also gorgeous with lots of hiking and, yep, rain. :-) As mentioned above, Bremerton and Kitsap County are also worth a look.

The eastern part of the state will generally be a lot hotter in the summer. It is not as hot or hot for as long on the western side.
posted by Chalks-n-Locks at 4:15 PM on November 14, 2024


East of the Cascades in Oregon and Washington is pretty much high desert, so your notions of the wet Pacific Northwest don't really apply there. You want west of the Cascades, where the population is centered, if you want rain. And, the bigger the city, the bluer it will be. Throughout the US, cities are generally blue and further out suburban and rural areas are purple to red. Blue states are partly blue because more of the population is in the cities. It might be better to think in terms of urban areas rather than states. (For example, I'm in Portland, Oregon, but get a few miles outside of town, and this place gets red quickly; I just realized I said that in my response to your question about this a few years ago!)

Have you looked at the Olympic Peninsula at all? Parts are more rural, but there might be enough Seattle influence for it to be a bit bluer.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:34 PM on November 14, 2024


Oh, I was also going to ask if you've been to either of these places. I think you'd learn a lot with a visit.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:58 PM on November 14, 2024


Another recommendation for Kitsap County! Moved here about five years ago after living in Seattle my entire life and finally being priced out. Feel free to drop me a MeMail if you want to talk more.
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:52 PM on November 14, 2024


Spokane where you're too Idaho for Seattle, but not Idaho enough for Idaho. - realjakebeal
posted by memoryindustries at 3:01 AM on November 15, 2024 [2 favorites]


I live in Minneapolis and my wife sees a Mayo specialist once a year. It’s a boring and uncomplicated drive down there. I wouldn’t do it if I needed to go in every week, but as an every few months thing, it’s fine.

Rochester is pretty small and there’s limited access to ethnic foods, but at least they finally have a good Thai restaurant. Grocery access is getting better with Trader Joe’s and Costco. I believe there is a small co-op that is speedy but fine.

Rochester itself feels blue, but you are in red congressional district. I suppose I should be encouraging more blue voters to move there.

If you could afford the housing you want, I’d consider St. Paul or Minneapolis.
posted by advicepig at 6:34 AM on November 15, 2024 [3 favorites]


Have you considered cities in Oregon? It’s consistently blue, Eugene, Salem or Corvallis might have what you want at a lower price point than WA.
posted by annie o at 12:36 PM on November 15, 2024


Spokane is bad, neighbouring Idaho is terrifying. Rochester is just too red-adjacent but if you are willing to consider smaller cities like that, I would invite you to consider Tacoma, pop225K. It has a lot going for it and the location is spectacular, and you are within spitting distance of Seattle.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:00 AM on November 17, 2024


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