How to pretend among (emotional) vampires
October 14, 2024 11:56 PM   Subscribe

How do you handle vampires you can’t stand because your spawn have taken a shine to each other? And how do I make this not weird for the spawn?

I have studiously ignored a boundary pushing emotional vampire for a while and have been enjoying focusing my energy on more positive things.


Recently I have realized that said vampire and their coven are making overtures of friendship towards my own family at a local venue we both regularly frequent, because it’s very close and attractive to all the local spawn.


Given that our respective young spawn are in the same area and have all the usual social intertwining that comes with that, I feel resigned to having to pretend to be polite with this coven of vampires for as long as our respective spawn are in the same area and seeing each other regularly at said venue.


All that said, I’d like to prevent my politeness from being read as re-warming a friendship. I definitely don’t want to be roped or guilted or obligated into doing any favors or having to spend anymore time with them than I have to. Assume the usual tactic of avoiding the venue is not possible in this case.


I’m basically looking to build a mental survival toolbox for myself now that I’m feeling cornered.


Thanks in advance!
posted by starelephant to Human Relations (16 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
There's no easy answer to this. It's a combo of finding the balance of being polite but aloof (busy / distracted / on the phone / really into your book...) during all the time you're there watching the kids, making excuses to say no to things that would expand the relationship, and -- the one that I didn't give enough emphasis to early on -- finding better alternatives for your kids. As they get older, if they know that leaving this locale means they'll get to go see their really neat other friend or do this really cool other thing, they'll be more likely to do that. As an extreme but effective example, the more you're out of town, the less you're at this venue.
posted by slidell at 12:42 AM on October 15, 2024 [2 favorites]


join a MLM for the bare minimum amount (Avon is pretty cheap) and then give them the hard sell on your "exciting business opportunity" every time you see them

they will start to avoid you

if this somehow backfires and they actually join your MLM then at least you'll be getting paid residuals for your annoyance
posted by Jacqueline at 3:13 AM on October 15, 2024 [18 favorites]


Best answer: Gray rock technique, no sharing any details of your life beyond the strictly necessary.
Be a little spacey and off-putting, take a couple beats to answer any question, act as if you're slightly confused and surprised anytime someone speaks to you.
Bring a distraction that looks like an obligation, e.g., use the time to catch up on work emails, read a foreign language textbook or do a coding tutorial on your laptop.
Set up a regular call with a relative or old friend who lives far away.
If possible, invite your partner or a friend to accompany you.
Rehearse a short, polite refusal for any requests before going to the venue: "Sorry, our family has a lot going on, we can't help with that."
Depending on the personalities involved, this may lead to gossip about you that may make it back to your kid's friends. Be sure you have a diplomatic response prepared if kid tells you that Friend says that Friend's mom says that you're weird and stuck-up.
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 4:14 AM on October 15, 2024 [18 favorites]


I have familial ones and so am engaged in a subtle long-game quest of inoculating my own offspring. This must of course never be explicitly in reference to the actual vampire(s) in your own lives, just as general information about patterns and practices one should be aware of. I'm sure there are those who'll say "kids are smart: they'll know who you're talking about, and it could backfire" but I say, be even subtler than that. So subtle you wonder if you're achieving anything. Eventually someday you'll see them make a choice influenced by their own observations of how some people just suck you dry, and you'll know you're winning.
posted by teremala at 5:03 AM on October 15, 2024 [3 favorites]


Best answer: > I definitely don’t want to be roped or guilted or obligated into doing any favors or having to spend anymore time with them than I have to.

You have total control over this. You're obviously worried that you won't know how to say no if they ask, possibly because you believe that saying no is rude. And that's something you need to work on! One of the best ways to protect yourself from emotional vampires and boundary pushers is to develop your warm-and-friendly-rejection muscles. When you start to trust in yourself that you will hold to your boundaries, you won't even feel the need to label other people as emotional vampires and boundary pushers - because you will no longer feel threatened by them,, because you will no longer roll over and let yourself be guilted or roped into things by them.

Practice in your mirror if necessary how to smile and warmly say, "Oh, no, I can't, I'm sorry." It's doable. Really!
posted by MiraK at 5:09 AM on October 15, 2024 [21 favorites]


Defer, defer, defer. “Things are crazy, can I get back to you.“, “I’m not sure I’ll have to check with my partner.“, ”Let me think about it and I’ll get back to you.”

This shuts down the conversation without you being forced to come up with something on the spot, letting you deal with your people pleasing tendencies at your own leisure.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:27 AM on October 15, 2024 [5 favorites]


I think something that will help with this is seeing these people more as complicated humans that you are just not that into, rather than as a threat that is going to drag you down. These people have their own lives; they are the main characters in your own story and whatever they are doing to cause you to label them as a coven of emotional vampires is probably more about them and not about you.

You live in the same area and they are part of your community. You don't have to like these people or even enjoy their company, but there is a world in which you acknowledge their existence and if they happen to be extra small talk-y that day, you just fill the air with your own small talk. "Hey that sounds tough, how bout that weird weather we're having? You know, I remember a time when the weather wasn't so weird, etc etc etc"

If they view your politeness as an invitation to friendship, just become really busy "oh a playdate? We've just been so busy that honestly we haven't been doing much outside the necessities"

It can be really annoying and awkward to have conversations with people who you don't want to be friends with, and it sounds like you're doing a good job of treating them with the courtesy that you would extend a pushy coworker if you had a boss who just wanted everyone to get along. Go to this venue knowing that you'll probably have a less than pleasant conversation with these people and also knowing that afterwards, you'll go home and you have a whole life outside these people.
posted by donut_princess at 6:29 AM on October 15, 2024 [9 favorites]


Also, your kid probably recognizes your discomfort around these people because kids notice everything. This is a really good opportunity to show them that it's possible to value the humanity that other people bring to the table even when they behave in ways that you wouldn't.
posted by donut_princess at 6:33 AM on October 15, 2024 [11 favorites]


Best answer: I'm pretty introverted and I have been since I can remember.I am a good listener, but I find social interactions exhausting.

I have learned to have a set of explanations for people for my behavior, or I will get a lot of their anxieties about themselves projected on to me. I have found it helpful to be receptive neutrally to social invitations, and provide explanations for my reasons to decline social interactions that will leave them less inclined to think or feel that:

I think I am superior to others
I have no life
I am a challenge to be undertaken and overcome
I am a witch

Some explanations that are useful and just the explanations I provided above. I even had an imaginary playmate when I was a kid, so that makes for a self-deprecating humorous story that hopefully will build some empathy. I have a rich creative practice that developed out of my love for solitude. Lots of people are terrified of being alone or need to impose something on some other humans to make themselves feel worthwhile. And to your "vampire" framing, I have learned to provide care for myself emotionally and physically, identify people I can have rewarding interactions with, and set boundaries with those that want to take more than I want to give.

Anyway, if you project "stay the hell away from me" energy, some people will see you as a challenge to be overcome, and others will see you as a witch. It's a pretty predictable human pattern. If you can be neutrally receptive, give them some plausible, neutral explanations, then set boundaries and enforce them, they may respect them, and then if not, it's time to be a little more emphatic about your boundaries. Good luck.
posted by effluvia at 7:59 AM on October 15, 2024 [6 favorites]


Best answer: You need to be very aware of how you handle your own discomfort during conversations. They will provide cues where, out of politeness or discomfort, you will likely be tempted to provide the response they want.

Be aware that it is dangerous to agree with them, because if you agree with the first three or four things they say: It's so hard to be a single mother, Everyone needs someone to talk to, There's a lot of running around when your kids are in after school programs, We are similar in many respects... their next statement is going to be very hard to deflect and is likely to be the one that entraps you: Why don't we exchange phone numbers so we can help each other...?

It's very hard to suddenly draw boundaries at that point after you have been nodding along agreeing to their statements. This means you need to start disagreeing with them before it becomes difficult. With the sequence above their second statement was the one you needed to disagree with, because no, you DON'T need someone to talk to. You can semi agree, that anyone who doesn't have someone to talk to must feel that lack, but imply that this is theoretical knowledge for you.

It helps to have a stock of sympathetic deflections you can reply with: That must be very hard for you. That's interesting. I didn't know anything about that. Very difficult for you(them) indeed. I can see this matters to you a lot. I can't even imagine.

Avoid self disclosure at all costs, as they more they know about you, the more openings they will have. If they ask, "Who do you talk to about your parenting issues?" Your reply should be boiled down to just one word, such as Friends. You don't want to provide information about where you know them from, in case they either want to insinuate themselves into the group, or even use that information against you, such as triangulating with other parents, saying that you're a snob who only hangs out with people who went to the same fancy college you did. You can reply with non answers like, "When you're close to someone it really feels like you've known them forever. Good friends are so wonderful!"

Turn the conversation back to them as much as possible to avoid it being about you. Ask their opinion about impersonal subjects, from the acoustics of the gymnasium, to the kids' uniforms, to the suitablity of the weather for the event, through the parking, the squirrels that the kids fed, the coach, and the date chosen for the outings. For best results see if you can draw them out to express their feelings about things that you have no control over, and are completely indifferent to. They can rant about the acoustics but they will be challenged to find a way to try to force you to fix them.

It's fine if they rant about their ex, and you encourage them to keep going by putting in "Oh dear!" and "How dreadful," and "What a relief that must have been," because while they are going to make the session you have to spend with them painful, it was going to be painful anyway once they glommed on you, but it will be very hard for them to continue the conversation about their ex, even if they just gave you an intimate core dump about the ex's bathroom habits and abominable behaviour concerning money. The important thing is that it doesn't give them an excuse to call you at home, or follow you into the parking lot, or ask you to help them draw up a legal letter to send the ex.

Try not to be drawn into any clique that excludes them, as that will make you an enemy, but try to get involved with light, boring conversations with all the other parents in turn.

If their manipulation ruins the event for the kids, don't try to stop them. You didn't sign up for that. It's the organizers role to prevent that, and if they can't, you shouldn't try to take over. If the event or the whole program gets ruined by them, it's an object lesson for the kids. Sometimes you need to simply choose a different activity and move on. Sometimes you can't maintain a friendship with someone whose family or partner is too difficult. It might just be that the kids can only stay friends while at school, but not at activities where parents can be present, and it won't be harmful for the kids to learn that.

Gentle helplessness and stupidity can be cultivated. You have no strong opinions about anything. Not the coach who is definitely favouring other kids than your own, nor Trump, nor the other parents. "Which one is Ashley..?" delivered at the end of a diatribe about the mother of the coach's favourite, will leave her thinking you are useless, and dumb as a boot, and that's how you want it. Emotional vampires are seeking closeness through mutual threat, or shared pain, or else they are seeking adversaries by casting you in the role of the threat and the source of pain. It's important to avoid being cast as either a fellow victim or as the villain. Whatever you do, don't let them get you take take sides, either making you indignant on their behalf or annoyed at them for claiming the victim role.

Interested, non-committal politeness all the way. You want them to be bored with your response, even tho it appears to be mildly positive to them. If they glom on you every time you are at the event, but appear to forget about you when you are not at the events, you can console yourself with the fact that your vague smile and polite attention to them is protecting the other parents.

Good manners are essential. If they managed to monopolize your attention for the last three practices, make sure you do the smile from a distance and nod, at some moment when they are occupied with haranguing some other hapless parent, so they don't realise too quickly that you are avoiding them.
posted by Jane the Brown at 11:10 AM on October 15, 2024 [7 favorites]


Response by poster: Thank you everyone for your sage advice, nanny's striped stocking, Jane the Brown and effluvia's in particular vibe with me, and I feel like I've been doing primitive versions of what they suggest. I have a hard time keeping a pleasant face on when I remember past history and feel rage looking at them.

donut_princess is on to my spawn being perceptive to weirdness, because I am a markedly different person during encounters, and the usual things spawn asks for and are granted (home playdates, calls, stuff that fosters more closeness etc) are not on the table for this coven.

I don't feel like I can show my hand to my spawn on what exactly went down that turned me off to this coven (Ive put out a lot of energy to help them and felt used and not valued by both adults on the other side, they have literally shown up on my doorstep uninvited in the middle of the night asking me to do more work after years of me fading, have threatened the livelihood of a mutual friend over a personal disagreement. I mean... with friends like that who needs enemies.)

I don't feel right about depreciating the rest of my social life to make everything feel "even", OTOH not sure how to justify this current unevenness.

I hope Im clarifying and focusing the "keep things from being weird for spawn" part of the question and not asking additional questions.
posted by starelephant at 11:35 AM on October 15, 2024 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: MiraK is also right about practicing using my rejection muscles (which I have been doing!!), it's that Im comfortable rejecting friends and acquaintances, and -not- my SO and spawn. This is making me intensely aware that requests I would usually reject head-on can be backdoored through my SO and spawn and and -THAT- is what is making me feel cornered.
posted by starelephant at 11:45 AM on October 15, 2024 [4 favorites]


> requests I would usually reject head-on can be backdoored through my SO and spawn and and -THAT- is what is making me feel cornered

Ooo, this makes me think you might want to dig into why you don't feel comfortable rejecting your SO and your kid, and work to overcome that discomfort. I wonder if, like me, you also grew up being told that saying yes is proof of love, and saying no means you don't love people? That is very tricksy brain programming indeed. You don't have to share here, obviously, just something for you to figure out on your own.
posted by MiraK at 12:13 PM on October 15, 2024 [2 favorites]


Best answer: I know you're using humour in how you wrote this question, but I think it would actually help you to stop calling them "vampires" and be quite specific in your own mind and your self-talk about what your actual issues are with these people.

Because when you name the problem accurately, the solutions become more obvious. Here, you're sort of blurring all the problems and re-framing this family as "vampires" which... just isn't a solveable problem.

Instead, maybe call them "The Favour Asking Family" - which will remind you that the solution is simply to prepare yourself to decline doing the favour. Or "The Time Burglar Family" - and then you know the solution is to keep the conversation brief and remind you to just ask where the restroom is so you can escape the convo. Thinking of someone as "Hothead Harry" or "Complaining Carla" can help remind you that staying calm and detached will cool down the drama.

If you frame the interaction as a specific type of problem you'd like to solve, it'll be waaay easier to remind yourself that you actually know how to solve that kind of problem.

Reading your updates on preview:

You need to get on the same page as your partner. Talk to them about what happened and decide together what the boundaries are (for instance, no playdates, no long convos). Be transparent about why these boundaries are important to you and plan how you'll respond to things that may come up.

With the kiddo that's tougher because it sounds like adult business that would be inappropriate and unfair for the kid to be burdened wth. In that case, I would just pick a new friend in that social group and actively try to shepherd your kid to want to spend time with that kid instead (go for dinner with the family, plan some playdates, etc).
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:10 PM on October 15, 2024 [11 favorites]


requests I would usually reject head-on can be backdoored through my SO and spawn and and -THAT- is what is making me feel cornered

I'm not sure what you mean here, but it sounds like they SO and kid are saying yes or accepting invitations when you don't want them to do that.

Can you ask your SO to check with you before accepting these requests? Train your kid to say they will have to talk to you about invitations instead of agreeing to things you need to be involved in without asking first?

vampire and their coven

You talk about this as though it's a large group of people allied against you, but later you mention "both adults" which seems to imply two adults. I think you will feel better about this if you don't think of them as some sort of larger group.

Also coven is a word that some people use for a group of people they practice their religion with, I'm not sure if that's what you are meaning to imply here or not. But there are lots of kind and wonderful people in covens.
posted by yohko at 5:13 PM on October 15, 2024 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: Good point nouvelle-personne on properly naming to frame the problem. I apologize to yohko and and any others who might be offended at my use of “vampire” and “coven” - I picked this theme a bit superficially since searches for “emotional vampire” were sort of bringing answers, and I was trying to anonymize details.
posted by starelephant at 11:00 PM on October 15, 2024 [1 favorite]


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