How to keep cat safe if mouse poison is being used?
September 12, 2024 1:58 PM Subscribe
I live in Brooklyn with a cat and there is some mouse and rat poison being placed outside our apartment. Is there anything I can do to keep my cat safe if a mouse eats poison and then comes into our apartment? There are the black boxes with poison on the block.
Is a mouse eating poison and coming into our apartment and being eaten by our cat a danger? Is there something we should do about it?
Response by poster: Yes, I'm on the ground level.
Yes, I have seen mice in my apartment before.
Yes, my cat will try to hunt/catch mice.
I think she usually brings me the mice, instead of trying to eat them, but it's possible she has also eaten them in the past.
posted by andoatnp at 2:11 PM on September 12, 2024
Yes, I have seen mice in my apartment before.
Yes, my cat will try to hunt/catch mice.
I think she usually brings me the mice, instead of trying to eat them, but it's possible she has also eaten them in the past.
posted by andoatnp at 2:11 PM on September 12, 2024
I'd also call the city and ask, and is there a Brooklyn-specific message board you can ask? I feel like there just can't be a huge number of cats dying from poisoned mice or people would be going to city hall with pitchforks.
Our cat almost never eats the mice, and they usually make her sick if she does because city mice are not the most wholesome. I think that if your cat were eating mice regularly you would probably notice in the litter box or see her throwing them up.
The internet seems to think that the amount of poison in one mouse probably wouldn't hurt a cat.
I'd set some traps and check them regularly, keep an eye on the cat but try not to worry too much. Maybe reinforce (if you don't already) when she brings you the mice? Take the mouse away and give her a high value treat? We always gave treats when our cat brought us mice (she is now mostly retired and doesn't hunt much).
My feeling is that if you are not absolutely overwhelmed by mice, a combination of trying to trap them and trying to take them away from the cat is likely to work.
posted by Frowner at 2:22 PM on September 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
Our cat almost never eats the mice, and they usually make her sick if she does because city mice are not the most wholesome. I think that if your cat were eating mice regularly you would probably notice in the litter box or see her throwing them up.
The internet seems to think that the amount of poison in one mouse probably wouldn't hurt a cat.
I'd set some traps and check them regularly, keep an eye on the cat but try not to worry too much. Maybe reinforce (if you don't already) when she brings you the mice? Take the mouse away and give her a high value treat? We always gave treats when our cat brought us mice (she is now mostly retired and doesn't hunt much).
My feeling is that if you are not absolutely overwhelmed by mice, a combination of trying to trap them and trying to take them away from the cat is likely to work.
posted by Frowner at 2:22 PM on September 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
I also have never had a cat that actually ate mice, but several that enjoyed killing them. I'm sure there are exceptions, but generally if a cat is well fed I think they prefer cat food to something with a bunch of gristle, bones, and hair. By all means, keep and eye out and if you see a dead mouse remove it, but I wouldn't worry too much about this.
posted by coffeecat at 2:28 PM on September 12, 2024
posted by coffeecat at 2:28 PM on September 12, 2024
My farm cats eat mice constantly and they are very good at leaving just the mouse colon behind. Picking up discarded mouse colons with a tissue is part of my daily routine. They're about the size and shape of a lima bean. So if you're not finding anything like that on your floors that may be some assurance your cat isn't eating mice.
I agree with Frowner you might want to investigate to find out what kind of bait/poison is being used in those boxes. Usually it's an anticoagulant, and vitamin K is the antidote. If you confirm it's an anticoagulant, you could talk to your vet about your concerns and maybe get a course of vitamin K to have on hand just in case.
ETA: also, it's not a guarantee, but generally a mouse that eats the poison will then be full and will go back to its nest, and when it starts to feel sick it won't want to leave the nest. So that helps reduce the risk that one would find its way into your apartment.
posted by Rhedyn at 3:26 PM on September 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
I agree with Frowner you might want to investigate to find out what kind of bait/poison is being used in those boxes. Usually it's an anticoagulant, and vitamin K is the antidote. If you confirm it's an anticoagulant, you could talk to your vet about your concerns and maybe get a course of vitamin K to have on hand just in case.
ETA: also, it's not a guarantee, but generally a mouse that eats the poison will then be full and will go back to its nest, and when it starts to feel sick it won't want to leave the nest. So that helps reduce the risk that one would find its way into your apartment.
posted by Rhedyn at 3:26 PM on September 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
Mouse bait that is used in apartment buildings is usually not the type that will harm a cat who eats a poisoned mouse or two. Landlords do not like it when their tenants won't tell them about vermin infesting a place because they don't want to endanger their pets, so the ordinary routine is to use bait that is pet safe. You are probably okay. But your best bet is to call your property management company and ask them about the baits.
Cats most at risk from poisoned mice are feral cats who hunt mice for food and could potentially catch and eat several of them in a situation where non-residential poisons are being used. Since you mentioned seeing black boxes with poison on your block, that could be concerning. Usually those black boxes are placed by exterminators hired by a business who needs to control a mouse or rat infestation to avoid being dinged by the health inspector. You'll almost always find the black boxes next to a restaurant or a shop that sells food. So you could try going into the nearest business to the black boxes and asking them if their exterminator placed the bait and if they know what is in them.
If you are not seeing mice, or the signs of mice in your apartment, I wouldn't be worried. The chances of your cat catching enough mice and eating enough of them to be poisoned herself is exponentially small when combined with the probability that a less dangerous bait is being used, and the fact that sick mice do not roam. As prey animals, if a mice are sick they ordinarily hunker down inside a wall and wait it out. They just don't go foraging or exploring if they are feeling sub par; a sick mouse is one that would very easily be caught.
posted by Jane the Brown at 4:07 PM on September 12, 2024
Cats most at risk from poisoned mice are feral cats who hunt mice for food and could potentially catch and eat several of them in a situation where non-residential poisons are being used. Since you mentioned seeing black boxes with poison on your block, that could be concerning. Usually those black boxes are placed by exterminators hired by a business who needs to control a mouse or rat infestation to avoid being dinged by the health inspector. You'll almost always find the black boxes next to a restaurant or a shop that sells food. So you could try going into the nearest business to the black boxes and asking them if their exterminator placed the bait and if they know what is in them.
If you are not seeing mice, or the signs of mice in your apartment, I wouldn't be worried. The chances of your cat catching enough mice and eating enough of them to be poisoned herself is exponentially small when combined with the probability that a less dangerous bait is being used, and the fact that sick mice do not roam. As prey animals, if a mice are sick they ordinarily hunker down inside a wall and wait it out. They just don't go foraging or exploring if they are feeling sub par; a sick mouse is one that would very easily be caught.
posted by Jane the Brown at 4:07 PM on September 12, 2024
FWIW, those are rat traps. I don't know if it changes the risk profile, either in type of bait/poison used or if mice simply ignore them.
posted by hoyland at 6:02 PM on September 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by hoyland at 6:02 PM on September 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
Mice usually stay inside in NYC and travel in walls/within buildings. They don't really go outside very much.
The black rat bait stations are common in NYC and not just for restaurants/buildings facing specific issues. Many Brooklyn neighborhoods, especially near Prospect Park, have ongoing rat issues that are not specific to a single building or business. Rats, unlike mice, rather like the outdoors.
I've never heard of an indoor cat getting sick from eating mice. This isn't something I'd worry about if I had an indoor cat and saw bait being placed outside. If I were putting bait inside my apartment, sure, but not outside -- the mice won't leave the cozy building and its many sources of food and warmth just to head out onto the mean streets of Brooklyn.
Agree that pet-safe traps are a good tool if you're worried about mice (including poisoned mice).
posted by knobknosher at 6:18 PM on September 12, 2024
The black rat bait stations are common in NYC and not just for restaurants/buildings facing specific issues. Many Brooklyn neighborhoods, especially near Prospect Park, have ongoing rat issues that are not specific to a single building or business. Rats, unlike mice, rather like the outdoors.
I've never heard of an indoor cat getting sick from eating mice. This isn't something I'd worry about if I had an indoor cat and saw bait being placed outside. If I were putting bait inside my apartment, sure, but not outside -- the mice won't leave the cozy building and its many sources of food and warmth just to head out onto the mean streets of Brooklyn.
Agree that pet-safe traps are a good tool if you're worried about mice (including poisoned mice).
posted by knobknosher at 6:18 PM on September 12, 2024
I've had the same concerns and my solution was to put snap traps or plastic tube no-kill traps under my kitchen sink where the cat couldn't get to them. I figured any mouse that entered the house would make a beeline for the kitchen sink cabinet because that's where the trash can is.
If you use no-kill traps, make sure to set an alarm and maybe put a note over the sink reminding you to check the traps once a day so you won't accidentally catch a mouse and starve it in a forgotten no-kill trap.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:36 PM on September 12, 2024
If you use no-kill traps, make sure to set an alarm and maybe put a note over the sink reminding you to check the traps once a day so you won't accidentally catch a mouse and starve it in a forgotten no-kill trap.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:36 PM on September 12, 2024
Also keep in mind - a mouse is a lot smaller than a cat, which means the amount of poison needed to kill a mouse is a lot less than a cat. AND by the time the mouse is dead, a lot of the poison will be excreted, metabolized, whatever.
Your cat would likely have to eat a lot of mice to be affected.
=====
Some sources:
"If your dog or cat eats a single poisoned rat or mouse, they are unlikely to consume enough of the poison to cause a problem. However if your pet is repeatedly eating poisoned rodents, it is possible for your pet to become affected." Australian Poisons Hotline
"When an animal is poisoned after it eats a rodent killed by the rodenticide, it is called secondary, or relay, poisoning. This can occur, but is rare, because a cat would need to eat many rodents that died from the poison. Outdoor cats or cats living on farms/stables/ vineyards that use rodenticides are at higher risk for secondary poisoning, especially if they subsist on a diet of rodents. " VCA Animal Hospitals
posted by ManInSuit at 8:36 PM on September 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
Your cat would likely have to eat a lot of mice to be affected.
=====
Some sources:
"If your dog or cat eats a single poisoned rat or mouse, they are unlikely to consume enough of the poison to cause a problem. However if your pet is repeatedly eating poisoned rodents, it is possible for your pet to become affected." Australian Poisons Hotline
"When an animal is poisoned after it eats a rodent killed by the rodenticide, it is called secondary, or relay, poisoning. This can occur, but is rare, because a cat would need to eat many rodents that died from the poison. Outdoor cats or cats living on farms/stables/ vineyards that use rodenticides are at higher risk for secondary poisoning, especially if they subsist on a diet of rodents. " VCA Animal Hospitals
posted by ManInSuit at 8:36 PM on September 12, 2024 [1 favorite]
If you can find out who is placing the bait stations, see if you can persuade them to use baits that are toxic only to rodents.
There are baits available whose only active ingredients are corn gluten and table salt, and they work by gumming up the lining of the rodent's digestive tract and inducing a rodent-specific response that makes them not drink, so they die from dehydration; the resulting corpses pose no poisoning hazard to scavengers regardless of dose. These baits do need the rodents to consume rather more of them than the traditional poisoned kind in order to be lethal, so they cost more per rodent killed, but they're still very effective.
posted by flabdablet at 7:26 AM on September 13, 2024
There are baits available whose only active ingredients are corn gluten and table salt, and they work by gumming up the lining of the rodent's digestive tract and inducing a rodent-specific response that makes them not drink, so they die from dehydration; the resulting corpses pose no poisoning hazard to scavengers regardless of dose. These baits do need the rodents to consume rather more of them than the traditional poisoned kind in order to be lethal, so they cost more per rodent killed, but they're still very effective.
posted by flabdablet at 7:26 AM on September 13, 2024
Another option might be to see if you can keep your cat locked in the bedroom with you over night. When I've had mice, they usually target the kitchen at night.
posted by litera scripta manet at 11:06 AM on September 13, 2024
posted by litera scripta manet at 11:06 AM on September 13, 2024
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If you do get mice in your apartment and your cat does catch and eat them, then yes, I would be worried. I'd probably get snappy traps (we got some similar to these) and set them wherever the mice tend to come in and where the cat is unlikely to get at them easily - we've been able to put them around the back of the stove and refrigerator, for instance. If the mice come into the kitchen and you can keep your cat out of the kitchen, that would be a possibility.
Are you on the first floor? Sick mice coming into the building to die seem to me more likely to be on the first floor or in the basement.
The thing is, I think you would need to kill any poisoned mice - probably more humane for the mice, for one thing, and you don't want them running off elsewhere to be eaten by something else.
A cat eating a poisoned mouse is always a risk - anyone in your apartment building could be setting out poison, the mouse could have eaten something independently poisonous, etc.
Can you look at the boxes and find out what poison is being used (or call the city) and know what to watch out for?
But I'd say that unless you have a cat who is an effective and frequent mouser and you frequently have mice in the apartment, the risk is probably pretty low.
posted by Frowner at 2:07 PM on September 12, 2024 [3 favorites]