Should I stay or should I go?
September 8, 2024 1:23 PM   Subscribe

I need help thinking through a job offer that I need to respond to by tomorrow.

Background/Current Job
• I’ve worked at current employer for almost 3 years.
• I’ve outgrown my current position, and was up for a promotion earlier this year that was put on indefinite hold due to layoffs. That was a gut punch that I haven't really recovered from.
• As a result, I started looking at other opportunities.
• Meanwhile, the promotion opportunity at my current institution is back from the dead, but not certain and unclear how long it will take to materialize.
• I currently make around $86k; promotion would have potential to be as high as $118k, but no idea what the actual number would be. Current institution practices “equity” in their salaries, which means the offer is set by HR and you can take it or take a hike.
• I have $13k in employer retirement contributions that vest in December. If I leave before then, I get $0 of that money (this is just the employer contributions; I have separate employee contributions). If I were to return to the institution within 5 years, the money is recoverable.
• Retirement contributions: 6% contribution plus additional 3% match. Annual value at current salary is $7,740.00.
• Even if the current promotion materializes, I've come to realize that the HR system at my current institution is completely whack. If I want further opportunities for advancement, it will be another round of teeth-pulling to get HR to approve it. Outside of promotions, it's a 3-5% "merit" increase each year, up to the max for the pay band.

Job Offer Details
• I’ve received an offer with a startup. I haven’t worked in a startup culture before, and that’s appealing.
• Salary is $110k.
• 3% retirement contribution, annual value at salary on offer is $3,300.00.
• Unlimited PTO, other benefits are generally equal.
• Higher opportunities for advancement
• Less bureaucracy
• Remote first culture
• Industry experience that would open doors to more industry, higher paying jobs in the future

Unquantifiables
• I’ve been “over it” with this job for at least a year, which the promotion was supposed to address. I have a lot of bad feelings towards the institution and how they’ve handled the layoffs we’ve had this year.
• I was fairly certain I was going to take this job if I got the offer, so I’ve been feeling even more checked out over the past 6 weeks that I’ve been interviewing. The idea of saying no to this opportunity without another end date on the horizon is… not great.
• The new job wants me to start ASAP (2 weeks). I already felt stressed about all the things I’d need to wrap up in that timeframe. I then was hit with a family emergency that resulted in me traveling back home. I will be working while I’m back home, but this has added to the stress I’m feeling about everything.
• I’m currently a manager of 4 direct reports. I’ve been feeling pretty burned out on managing, but I think a lot of that has to do with the lack of direction from above me. The new job is not currently a management position, but they would expect it to become one over time. The promotion would involve building a new team, in a short amount of time. The idea of taking a break from managing for a bit and just being an individual contributor was pretty appealing.
• I have a great mentor at my current job, who I previously reported to, and would be reporting to if the promotion happens. She’s been very supportive of my development, and this is the first time I feel like I’ve had a true career mentor. The idea of leaving her really sucks. (She knows I've been interviewing and has been completely supportive of me doing what's best for my career, especially after the rug was pulled out from under me with the prior promotion opportunity).
• I was really excited about the job prospect during the interviews. However, when I got the offer, I didn’t feel excited like I expected to. My husband thinks this is because I still really wanted the opportunity with my current job to work out.

As mentioned above the fold, I'm due to respond tomorrow. I had previously thought it was more cut and dried, but once I crunched the numbers on the retirement contributions and realized my previous employer contributions weren't yet vested, I feel even less certain about what to do. I'm not the breadwinner in our family, but the additional money would make our lives much easier. Any input or additional points of consideration would be greatly appreciated.
posted by bluloo to Work & Money (17 answers total)
 
If you're feeling like your old job isn't right for you anymore, then taking this new one seems low risk.
Especially if you can survive with no job at all for a while if it turns out to be a bad fit.

I'd go for it, but I also haven't worked for a start-up before. Others might offer better perspective there.
posted by Acari at 1:41 PM on September 8, 2024 [1 favorite]


Best answer: When you’re done you’re done. You’ve already checked out of your current job, and it would be extremely hard to check back in.

I would go have a new adventure with new things in your life and sink the cost of the retirement vesting. Consider it the price for getting out of someplace you really don’t want to be.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:47 PM on September 8, 2024 [6 favorites]


Best answer: If you take the job, you can always leave later. If you don't take the job, they will presumably offer it to someone else, and might take it as a bit of a black mark further down the line ("they were super qualified and we wanted them, but it turns out they were just jerking us around", maybe assuming you were using them to bid up salary/perks/title at current job, etc).

You could also presumably maintain a connection with your once-and-future mentor at current job outside of the specific company, especially as she too may wish to escape what sounds like HR hell. Having a network outside of specific workplaces will be of value to you both.

I just don't see a compelling case for staying at the current job at all. The money in contributions you lose is a concrete number that it sounds like you can easily recover, and everything else pretty much sounds like "I'm burnt out and depressed and dreading the transaction cost of a positive change". Very relatable! Not very sensible as actual life advice.
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 1:52 PM on September 8, 2024 [1 favorite]


I think you should take the new job. Too much of the current job’s benefits are contingent on the possible chance of a promotion, which has already fallen through once before. Until it’s a firm offer, it doesn’t count for much. Feeling “over it” and “a lot of bad feelings” towards current job is a real and rational reason to move on- especially to a new, higher paid job that will open more doors for you in the future. I’m willing to bet that even if promotion at current job came through, the bad feelings wouldn’t go away. (If anything, they can get worse as you climb the ladder.) All of this with the caveat that I’m not familiar with start-up jobs.

Good luck with your decision- on congratulations on the job offer!
posted by Weng at 1:54 PM on September 8, 2024 [1 favorite]


I would also probably take the job.

How would you feel about saying to prospective new employer: I want to say yes, but I'm hesitating because I have $13k in retirement contributions that will vest in December. Could you give me [propose a comparable amount of equity or stock or something]?
posted by aincandenza at 1:57 PM on September 8, 2024 [16 favorites]


Given that your mentor is supportive of you applying elsewhere, what does she say? Does she think this job is a step up?
posted by coffeecat at 1:59 PM on September 8, 2024 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure what industry you're in, but it's definitely worth understanding the competitive landscape, roadmap to profitability, and fundraising/VC ecosystem trends in this startup's industry. Startups are great until they're not. I was an early employee at my startup and the first year or so was amazing. After the direct path to profitability failed to emerge, the VCs started circling, and we went through a couple of years of increasing uncertainty, layoffs, increasing ISO dilution due to additional rounds of VC funding, etc. I ended up bailing about three months before the startup was acquired by a BigCorp, after about half my team had been laid off or quit. I understand it worked out fairly well for the folks who stayed, but it was far from a sure thing based on the knowledge I had at the time.

I'm not saying "don't take the job" (aincadenza's advice is solid), just saying, be prepared for lean times, and have a backup plan in case the startup fails to launch, or is not as successful as they hope to be.
posted by Alterscape at 2:02 PM on September 8, 2024 [6 favorites]


Best answer: Consider this: how would you feel if you stayed at the current job and the promotion failed to materialize again? (Or materialized, but in a longer timeframe or with worse/different terms than expected?)

What is the possibility of leaving on good terms so that a return within 5 years is open to you? Some institutions take a long time to get their HR ducks in a row but see value in hiring previous employees back since institutional knowledge is an asset in large organizations.

How much of this doubt is social guilt or a feeling of obligation or loyalty towards your mentor? You might be experiencing a strong level of support from your bosses or coworkers who feel guilty that your expected promotion didn’t come through. This could evoke feelings of loyalty in you. Remember that while the people may care for you, the institution very likely does not (otherwise you would have that promotion by now).
posted by jknx at 2:12 PM on September 8, 2024 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Take the new job, let the relevant people at the old job know that you'd be happy to apply for the position the promotion would provide if it ever firms up.
posted by metasarah at 2:40 PM on September 8, 2024 [9 favorites]


Unlimited PTO

I hope this isn’t a big influence on your decision making unless you are satisfied from talking to other employees that PTO really is regularly used, not just theoretically available.

if you want to accept, give them a firm date for when you are available. if I were you it would be three weeks minimum so that you have a week between old and new jobs. they want you in two weeks? companies want a lot of things.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:56 PM on September 8, 2024 [7 favorites]


I agree with those suggesting you negotiate. You're in a really powerful position right now: the new employer wants you, and you wouldn't be in a horrible spot if you turned them down. Definitely ask them to address the 13K you have vesting in December. Definitely decide when you're ready to start, and tell them that. And if you haven't negotiated salary hard yet, do. Too many people -- especially women -- skip that, with long-term negative impact on their earning power.
posted by daisyace at 3:32 PM on September 8, 2024 [1 favorite]


> once I crunched the numbers on the retirement contributions and realized my previous employer contributions weren't yet vested, I feel even less certain about what to do

if you're indifferent about accepting the startup job - you could take it or leave it - but a more attractive financial offer would make you a lot more receptive, and you haven't negotiated with them over salary etc, that's a great prompt for you to negotiate.

you could frame it that you're enthusiastic about startup's vision and coming on board, but you'd be taking a financial hit which gives you pause, in terms of losing out on soon to vest retirement contributions. then also frame it by reiterating your value to startup if they hire you - you have management experience, you can help startup build out their team as they grow.

maybe you could bring that problem to the table, without necessarily proposing a solution and see if startup proposes a solution. maybe they'll propose a hiring bonus, or higher retirement contributions, or a raw increase in salary. then you could counteroffer..
posted by are-coral-made at 4:14 PM on September 8, 2024 [1 favorite]


This is really tricky. I hear you about being over your job and disengaged. On the other hand, the $13k is a decent amount if you hang on for just a few more months.

Of greater concern is the urgency of the new place. I am inclined to interpret the !!!urgent-must-start-in-two-weeks!!! requirement as a serious red flag. Can't they plan? Will the job be like this too - will your every task be a house-is-on-fire/ hair-is-on-fire emergency?
posted by lulu68 at 5:08 PM on September 8, 2024 [5 favorites]


Echoing lulu68 on the start date potential red flag. Are they not willing to accommodate a later start date by even a week? This should give you insight on how else they may pull this type of pressure on you in the future and how it will be essential to be comfortable pushing back to protect yourself.

Ditto on the PTO. I had unlimited PTO at one job. I hardly took it because the owners were fine with putting too much work on my plate, implicitly pressuring me not to take my fair share of PTO.

For perspective, one rule of new jobs is: the best you will ever be treated is at the hiring stage. You'll often find clues as to the issues you are going to run into based on your experience of getting hired. If something strikes you as weird or "quirky" now, odds are there is a deeper running issue waiting to be discovered.
posted by Goblin Barbarian at 6:32 PM on September 8, 2024 [5 favorites]


Ask for $13k signing bonus to start sooner than December. Enjoy your new job. Unlimited PTO is the only pause, that translates to 2-3 weeks vacation in practice.
posted by shock muppet at 6:44 PM on September 8, 2024 [3 favorites]


At your next interviews after the 'startup' job, you can pull all kinds of cards to play back into why you might want "normie" jobs again.

If you can survive a job hunt if the the startup thing falls on its face, and you're young enough, I'd go for it.

If I had another go-around, I'd ask for a lot more money (salary) up front, tempering equity, or something written into the contract to have a salary of at least x% of yearly raise.

This is a risk, of course. But it's a gamble with upside. It has to be your own and your family's call, not a bunch of internet friends.
posted by porpoise at 10:33 PM on September 8, 2024


Response by poster: Thanks everyone for the input! I mulled it over, and discussed with my husband, and decided to ask to push the start date. They were open to that, so I now have two weeks between jobs to decompress. I also told the current job that I'd check my email a few times during the two weeks, so if anything comes up during the transition period I'd be available to provide input. This has helped relieve a lot of the stress I was feeling.

For those who raised concerns about the unlimited PTO, I hear you! But this company actually prioritizes work-life balance, and I had many discussions with people about how they actually do encourage people to take time away. I also observed interviews being scheduled around availability of people currently on vacation, so there was evidence of them walking the walk.
posted by bluloo at 8:11 AM on September 10, 2024 [1 favorite]


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