How to eldercare when one parent is terrible and the other is not?
August 19, 2024 8:30 AM Subscribe
My married parents are 71 and 72, healthy, co-own and co-habitate in a single-family house. I live far away. I have a perfectly copacetic relationship with one parent, not the other. I would be willing to support eldercare for the copacetic parent (not the other). The topic of eldercare isn't emergent, but has never been broached. I don't want to ignore the whole topic altogether, and later one or all of us end up worse off for it. How do I start to deal with this?
TL;DR:
- I would like to maintain a relationship with Copacetic Parent and would be willing to discuss and coordinate eldercare for and with them.
- I do not want to maintain a relationship with Terrible Parent and am not willing to coordinate eldercare for them (unless this was a side effect of my supporting Copacetic Parent).
- Their lifestyles are very enmeshed and it's hard to have a 1:1 relationship with Copacetic Parent. I'd like to change this.
- We have not collectively done one ounce of future planning and I don't even really know where to begin nor how my sibling and I can / should toggle responsibilities.
- Both parents have poor executive function and future-planning capabilities, I cannot assume that they have set themselves well up for aging in place.
- I do wonder, since the dynamics are so complicated and unhealthy, do I just need to swear off any eldercare responsibility for either of them?
- I do worry about something catastrophic happening to one or both and for all of us to be collectively unprepared.
RESOURCES I WOULD LIKE HELP FINDING:
-- What eldercare could look like from afar, for me to support eldercare in some way for one parent but not the other,
-- general resources (books podcasts etc.), ideally like "eldercare for adult children dummies" and specifically for eldercare scenarios where one parent is tolerable and the other is not,
-- accounts of people who have similar lopsided relationships with their elderly, co-habitating parents and who navigated eldercare effectively with the one they can tolerate,
-- accounts of adult siblings who were able to collaborate to manage eldercare, despite bringing very different resources to the table and not being close prior to that,
-- resources for people with executive function challenges who are trying to figure out eldercare,
-- methods to develop a more robust 1:1 relationship with my copacetic parent despite that they are very enmeshed with my terrible parent and we live far apart,
-- barometers of any kind so I can know if this is all way too complicated and ill-fated and whether I should just accept that I cannot manage eldercare for either of them.
MORE BACKSTORY:
When I say none of us have talked about eldercare together, I mean I truly have no idea: what parents' long term plans or wishes are; how many financial resources they have at their disposal; if they consider their current house their final "age in place" location; whether they have talked about anything with my sibling. I could guess at a bunch of things but I'm not sure how helpful that would be.
Terrible Parent: I am low-contact in order to preserve mental health. This parent is severely emotionally reactive, jealous and controlling. They have / still do emotionally and psychologically abuse me (if given the opportunity). Terrible Parent spends a lot of time at home, has only a few solo hobbies outside of the house, and monitors almost all of Copacetic Parents' activities and conversations. Terrible Parent does not like when Copacetic Parent leaves the house alone for more than a grocery run.
Copacetic Parent: I am low-contact, but only because I cannot figure out how to have a 1:1 relationship with them without either of us suffering retribution from Terrible Parent. We generally get along, don't trigger each other, navigate squabbles relatively effectively, and can enjoy each other's company and some shared hobbies/interests. Copacetic Parent spends a lot of time at home, does not have any solo hobbies outside of the house, and defers to Terrible Parent for most major life decisions.
Household dynamics: Due to how both parents cohabitate in the space, it's difficult for me to guarantee any phone calls with Copacetic Parent will truly be private. Terrible Parent's jealousy and emotional dysregulation are severe, and private phone calls or visits set off retribution towards Copacetic Parent and I (ex. explosive emotional tirades, slamming doors and furniture, shoving, passive aggression, holding grudges for months/years). Neither Copacetic Parent or I expend very much effort to talk to or see each other 1:1. I'm willing to expend more if I can figure out how to minimize subsequent harm from Terrible Parent vindictiveness.
Me: 35, mostly financially stable historically. I do not own my own house and live in a very high-cost-of-living area. I have moderate to severe executive function difficulties, not sure yet whether they are temporary or permanent (I am getting to the bottom of this). I am worried that my limited executive function be over-taxed by complicated eldercare scenarios. I have a supportive partner who likes Copacetic Parent and dislikes Terrible Parent.
Sibling: 32, historically not financially stable, does not own a house, lives in a low cost of living area. Lives much closer to parents, sees them frequently, and is seemingly emotionally close to Terrible Parent and neutral with Copacetic Parent. I am not close with Sibling, they ignore most of my attempts to reach out, and have historically not been open to conversations that involve future planning, complex problems, or discussions of our family dynamics.
TL;DR:
- I would like to maintain a relationship with Copacetic Parent and would be willing to discuss and coordinate eldercare for and with them.
- I do not want to maintain a relationship with Terrible Parent and am not willing to coordinate eldercare for them (unless this was a side effect of my supporting Copacetic Parent).
- Their lifestyles are very enmeshed and it's hard to have a 1:1 relationship with Copacetic Parent. I'd like to change this.
- We have not collectively done one ounce of future planning and I don't even really know where to begin nor how my sibling and I can / should toggle responsibilities.
- Both parents have poor executive function and future-planning capabilities, I cannot assume that they have set themselves well up for aging in place.
- I do wonder, since the dynamics are so complicated and unhealthy, do I just need to swear off any eldercare responsibility for either of them?
- I do worry about something catastrophic happening to one or both and for all of us to be collectively unprepared.
RESOURCES I WOULD LIKE HELP FINDING:
-- What eldercare could look like from afar, for me to support eldercare in some way for one parent but not the other,
-- general resources (books podcasts etc.), ideally like "eldercare for adult children dummies" and specifically for eldercare scenarios where one parent is tolerable and the other is not,
-- accounts of people who have similar lopsided relationships with their elderly, co-habitating parents and who navigated eldercare effectively with the one they can tolerate,
-- accounts of adult siblings who were able to collaborate to manage eldercare, despite bringing very different resources to the table and not being close prior to that,
-- resources for people with executive function challenges who are trying to figure out eldercare,
-- methods to develop a more robust 1:1 relationship with my copacetic parent despite that they are very enmeshed with my terrible parent and we live far apart,
-- barometers of any kind so I can know if this is all way too complicated and ill-fated and whether I should just accept that I cannot manage eldercare for either of them.
MORE BACKSTORY:
When I say none of us have talked about eldercare together, I mean I truly have no idea: what parents' long term plans or wishes are; how many financial resources they have at their disposal; if they consider their current house their final "age in place" location; whether they have talked about anything with my sibling. I could guess at a bunch of things but I'm not sure how helpful that would be.
Terrible Parent: I am low-contact in order to preserve mental health. This parent is severely emotionally reactive, jealous and controlling. They have / still do emotionally and psychologically abuse me (if given the opportunity). Terrible Parent spends a lot of time at home, has only a few solo hobbies outside of the house, and monitors almost all of Copacetic Parents' activities and conversations. Terrible Parent does not like when Copacetic Parent leaves the house alone for more than a grocery run.
Copacetic Parent: I am low-contact, but only because I cannot figure out how to have a 1:1 relationship with them without either of us suffering retribution from Terrible Parent. We generally get along, don't trigger each other, navigate squabbles relatively effectively, and can enjoy each other's company and some shared hobbies/interests. Copacetic Parent spends a lot of time at home, does not have any solo hobbies outside of the house, and defers to Terrible Parent for most major life decisions.
Household dynamics: Due to how both parents cohabitate in the space, it's difficult for me to guarantee any phone calls with Copacetic Parent will truly be private. Terrible Parent's jealousy and emotional dysregulation are severe, and private phone calls or visits set off retribution towards Copacetic Parent and I (ex. explosive emotional tirades, slamming doors and furniture, shoving, passive aggression, holding grudges for months/years). Neither Copacetic Parent or I expend very much effort to talk to or see each other 1:1. I'm willing to expend more if I can figure out how to minimize subsequent harm from Terrible Parent vindictiveness.
Me: 35, mostly financially stable historically. I do not own my own house and live in a very high-cost-of-living area. I have moderate to severe executive function difficulties, not sure yet whether they are temporary or permanent (I am getting to the bottom of this). I am worried that my limited executive function be over-taxed by complicated eldercare scenarios. I have a supportive partner who likes Copacetic Parent and dislikes Terrible Parent.
Sibling: 32, historically not financially stable, does not own a house, lives in a low cost of living area. Lives much closer to parents, sees them frequently, and is seemingly emotionally close to Terrible Parent and neutral with Copacetic Parent. I am not close with Sibling, they ignore most of my attempts to reach out, and have historically not been open to conversations that involve future planning, complex problems, or discussions of our family dynamics.
This is so hard. I had a closer relationship with one parent than the other. When that parent became ill, it wasn't really possible to maintain a 1:1 with them, because the other parent was managing all medical and practical decisions, and when there was conflict, they would withhold information from me.
So I decided to keep the peace with the more difficult parent, in order to maintain easier access and communication, so I could be more present and informed about the wellbeing of the parent I was closer with (plus it caused the closer parent distress when there was conflict and I didn't want to add any burden). That parent was sick for a few years and eventually died.
Looking back I'm really glad about the choice I made (even though it was hard) because it allowed me to be a part of their final years. Wishing you all the best, it's not an easy thing to navigate.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 8:59 AM on August 19, 2024 [5 favorites]
So I decided to keep the peace with the more difficult parent, in order to maintain easier access and communication, so I could be more present and informed about the wellbeing of the parent I was closer with (plus it caused the closer parent distress when there was conflict and I didn't want to add any burden). That parent was sick for a few years and eventually died.
Looking back I'm really glad about the choice I made (even though it was hard) because it allowed me to be a part of their final years. Wishing you all the best, it's not an easy thing to navigate.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 8:59 AM on August 19, 2024 [5 favorites]
I’m in such a similar position that I might be projecting but I think what you need to realize is that copacetic parent is making, and has made, a series of choices to prioritize their relationship with the other parent over you.
You cannot fix that. You cannot create a relationship with them separate from the worse parent. The reason is because they have chosen their priority and it isn’t you.
That said, my approach also has been to keep some degree of peace. I do have some limits. My own parents can’t live with me and I won’t live with them is the big one.
I think you can and should ask some questions. But I don’t think you can have solutions in advance - so much depends on whose health does what when. Maybe think through what you mean by “won’t provide care” specifically.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:07 AM on August 19, 2024 [20 favorites]
You cannot fix that. You cannot create a relationship with them separate from the worse parent. The reason is because they have chosen their priority and it isn’t you.
That said, my approach also has been to keep some degree of peace. I do have some limits. My own parents can’t live with me and I won’t live with them is the big one.
I think you can and should ask some questions. But I don’t think you can have solutions in advance - so much depends on whose health does what when. Maybe think through what you mean by “won’t provide care” specifically.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:07 AM on August 19, 2024 [20 favorites]
Oh and I'll also add, trying to keep the peace was hard and taxing, but it actually did improve my relationship with the more challenging parent, long term. It calmed things down, created new and better patterns of how to engage, and so that relationship, while still not perfect, has stayed better, even years later. So there was a silver lining to all the extra emotional labour it cost me to be diplomatic and non-confrontational! I hope if you go down this path the same is true for you.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:16 AM on August 19, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:16 AM on August 19, 2024 [1 favorite]
Seconding what warriorqueen said, this line really jumped out at me: "Their lifestyles are very enmeshed and it's hard to have a 1:1 relationship with Copacetic Parent. I'd like to change this."
Unless you get buy-in from Copacetic Parent, you can't change this. And they're currently choosing to stay enmeshed.
posted by brilliantine at 9:18 AM on August 19, 2024 [11 favorites]
Unless you get buy-in from Copacetic Parent, you can't change this. And they're currently choosing to stay enmeshed.
posted by brilliantine at 9:18 AM on August 19, 2024 [11 favorites]
Like others have already said, your parents sound like a package deal. If Terrible Parent needs care first, that's a responsibility that will likely fall on Copacetic Parent, and so helping care for Terrible Parent is really a gift to Copacetic Parent. That doesn't mean you need to physically care for them, maybe you'll help by researching nursing homes or paying for a cleaning service so Copacetic Parent can focus on caring for Terrible Parent, etc.
Does Copacetic Parent have their own phone number? If so, you should be able to figure out a way to at least have 1:1 conversations with them. I know you say Terrible Parent punishes them for private calls, but what if Copacetic Parent called you while grocery shopping or taking a walk? Then Terrible Parent wouldn't have to know. If they don't have their own phone, you could gift them one.
posted by coffeecat at 10:18 AM on August 19, 2024
Does Copacetic Parent have their own phone number? If so, you should be able to figure out a way to at least have 1:1 conversations with them. I know you say Terrible Parent punishes them for private calls, but what if Copacetic Parent called you while grocery shopping or taking a walk? Then Terrible Parent wouldn't have to know. If they don't have their own phone, you could gift them one.
posted by coffeecat at 10:18 AM on August 19, 2024
Decide now that you are noping out of it. Let your sibling do it if they want to, but be aware that you may forfeit that relationship and or some inheritance on that basis. Seems fair in which case.
posted by Iteki at 10:22 AM on August 19, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 10:22 AM on August 19, 2024 [3 favorites]
Check with Copacetic Parent if you can build your relationship with them on line? There is a small chance that they can be quietly messaging you back and forth without it getting back to Non-Copacetic Parent, as long as this does not turn into triangulation from you trying to get them closer to you at the expense of their relationship with Non-Copacetic Parent.
You will want to build this relationship on minor positive daily life things you each experience and not around evading Non-Copacetic Parent. For best results you want to be discussing what you had for breakfast and the dog you saw on your walk, so that you are comfortable sharing little trivial thoughts and feelings to build intimacy and trust, without ever getting into conversations that Non-Copacetic could reasonably consider collusion, disloyalty, slander or whatever.
You can also ask them to share biographical details with you and get curious about them. What did they eat for breakfast as a child? Who prepared it? What was their favorite music growing up? Do they still listen to it now? What music do they listen to? Stay off all loaded or anxiety producing topics. You want them to look forward to these brief frequent interactions and you want them to be boring for Non-Copacetic Parent if they hear about them, and not threatening at all because they are so short and inconsequential.
I'd also suggest that you perform periodic friendly, low-key reach outs to sibling, so that they remain in touch and comfortable with contact with you, much like the relationship on line I am proposing for Copacetic Parent. If you avoid conversations and situations that will make anyone anxious, you increase the chance that when the time comes they will trust you and be in contact so that the difficult and more scary conversations can be opened.
It might be worth having similar very brief interactions with Non-Copacetic Parent too, if you can control them enough that they don't glom on you and subject you to their emotional storms. If they do something regularly - say both parents watch "Heartland" on their Christian TV channel, you could watch enough episodes too so that you can have a light not-at-all fraught conversation about things happening on the show.
As yet I would strongly advise against opening up any discussions about eldercare planning, for the simple reason that you have nothing to offer that would reduce anxiety and reassure the people involved if you did open the discussion. Right now, opening the discussion is opening a can of worms that is one day perhaps going to burst in the future. You do not want to open the can of worms before you have to. After all, for all you know your parents will win a lottery and have a wealthy and luxurious retirement, or both be in a car that gets hit by a tour bus driven by a drunken roadie, both get killed instantly and the settlement you get from the celebrity whose bus took them out fund a comfortable retirement for both you and sibling. Right now, you have nothing to bring to a conversation about their old age, except your own anxiety about it, and you do not have the kind of relationship with any of them where you can bring your anxiety to them and get them to do the emotional labor of reassuring you.
Bringing up their eldercare means bringing up a host of apparent problems, with you having any suggestions on how to mitigate a single one of them. You've got one parent whose emotional regulation is very bad, and is definitely not someone who would benefit facing a scary future. You've got a second person whose efforts are all going into maintaining their household's emotional regulation who is probably so very tapped out doing it that they would not benefit from facing a scary future, and you've got a third person who probably sees you as a threat lest you destabilize the emotional regulation of Non-Copacetic Parent, thereby resulting in Sibling and Copacetic Parent having to put in more work soothing them.
"Please tell me you have been putting money aside... What do you mean you didn't save anything! How could you be so stupid!" is NOT going to go over well. Just don't have any conversation that will sound like that from their side of things. Don't do it. It won't help you, or them.
I'm not saying you are wrong to be thinking about these things, but now is the time to look at what is under your control and figure it if there is anything you can do in advance and doing it. Researching their province or state's eldercare law and financing would be a place to start. You don't need to talk to either of your parents to find out if there is funding for destitute seniors, or if when one senior needs to be place in a nursing home, the family home must be sold to pay for it leaving their partner homeless. But you sure as heck could tip them into a major melt down by asking them if they know those things, or even by telling them about it once you find out.
You may need to think of this whole project as you dealing with your own emotional regulation surrounding future anxiety about disaster hitting your parents, triggered by your inevitable process of anticipating their deaths, and both mourning and resenting it. Never mind talking to your family about such a loaded subject, what can you do to make YOURSELF feel less anxious about it. Work from the assumption that there is no secret retirement bank account - there might be and it will be nice if there turns out to be, but assume nobody has done anything.
Perhaps you would like to start a savings fund, if you even can do such a thing, which in your own mind is your eldercare emergency support fund. At first it would only hold enough money to get you down there to visit, or to pay for them to take a few taxis to help them out during a medical emergency, but if you stick to it for a few years and can keep contributing, it would build up to cover such expenses as a month of a daily home care aid coming in for an hour, or a half the cost of a winter stay in a senior home care apartment. Of course, this fund will NEVER be enough to support them both in medically expensive long stays in quality nursing care, so that is NOT what it is for - it's there for you to feel that you can handle the first few minutes or days of a crisis when it occurs.
But don't mention this fund to anyone if you do start it. If you do and it evaporates you'll feel crappy. If you mention it they may feel you owe it to them and try to get it from you. If you mention it to them, they may assume it is growing rapidly to magnificent sums and that they can rely on it in future. Or they may just resent your not being able to contribute more, or resent you being able to or trying to contribute at all. Or all of those things, at the same time.
You could consider planning as if things could go right - Non-Copacetic Parent can move in with sibling, Copacetic Parent can move in with me - The idea is to picture an at least slight plausible future, and then work from the assumption that it is possible and that things could go right, for as long as possible, simply to manage your own anxiety about what will become of your parents. Since nobody knows what the future holds, there is no reason not to hang onto the possibility that this future could happen and could turn out okay, and it is much better for your mental health to keep in mind that there are any number of good positive outcomes that could happen. You just make plans to potentially provide an old age home for your Copacetic Parent and then adjust when real life information shows you it's not going to be possible, and then you look for another plausible, possible future to work towards and expect.
Uncertainty is scary because we want to have control over the future. Yet when we don't have control we can embrace uncertainty as reassuring. We don't know if Copacetic Parent will pass away first and Non-Copacetic Parent will put pressure on you to move back home and become their live in care taker while paying all the bills. We also don't know if Non-Copacetic Parent will pass away suddenly first, incurring no medical expenses in the process, and Copacetic will sell the house during a sudden peak in property values, and admit to having a small pension you knew nothing about, and they will spend their last years happy in a tiny seniors apartment alone, playing scrabble on line with you every evening. Both those possibilities are almost equally likely right now, but the first one is the one you have power in - because in that one you have the power to flatly refuse to move in with Non-Copacetic Parent or contribute to them in any way. It might be the more satisfying future that works out better in your favour and leads to a chastened Non-Copacetic Parent in a nursing home paid for by the state, and you feeling better about yourself than ever before in your life.
If you can take that mind set and use it to regulate your own anxiety about your parents, you will be less likely to stir the pot, upset both your parents and open your own old wounds.
posted by Jane the Brown at 11:14 AM on August 19, 2024 [7 favorites]
You will want to build this relationship on minor positive daily life things you each experience and not around evading Non-Copacetic Parent. For best results you want to be discussing what you had for breakfast and the dog you saw on your walk, so that you are comfortable sharing little trivial thoughts and feelings to build intimacy and trust, without ever getting into conversations that Non-Copacetic could reasonably consider collusion, disloyalty, slander or whatever.
You can also ask them to share biographical details with you and get curious about them. What did they eat for breakfast as a child? Who prepared it? What was their favorite music growing up? Do they still listen to it now? What music do they listen to? Stay off all loaded or anxiety producing topics. You want them to look forward to these brief frequent interactions and you want them to be boring for Non-Copacetic Parent if they hear about them, and not threatening at all because they are so short and inconsequential.
I'd also suggest that you perform periodic friendly, low-key reach outs to sibling, so that they remain in touch and comfortable with contact with you, much like the relationship on line I am proposing for Copacetic Parent. If you avoid conversations and situations that will make anyone anxious, you increase the chance that when the time comes they will trust you and be in contact so that the difficult and more scary conversations can be opened.
It might be worth having similar very brief interactions with Non-Copacetic Parent too, if you can control them enough that they don't glom on you and subject you to their emotional storms. If they do something regularly - say both parents watch "Heartland" on their Christian TV channel, you could watch enough episodes too so that you can have a light not-at-all fraught conversation about things happening on the show.
As yet I would strongly advise against opening up any discussions about eldercare planning, for the simple reason that you have nothing to offer that would reduce anxiety and reassure the people involved if you did open the discussion. Right now, opening the discussion is opening a can of worms that is one day perhaps going to burst in the future. You do not want to open the can of worms before you have to. After all, for all you know your parents will win a lottery and have a wealthy and luxurious retirement, or both be in a car that gets hit by a tour bus driven by a drunken roadie, both get killed instantly and the settlement you get from the celebrity whose bus took them out fund a comfortable retirement for both you and sibling. Right now, you have nothing to bring to a conversation about their old age, except your own anxiety about it, and you do not have the kind of relationship with any of them where you can bring your anxiety to them and get them to do the emotional labor of reassuring you.
Bringing up their eldercare means bringing up a host of apparent problems, with you having any suggestions on how to mitigate a single one of them. You've got one parent whose emotional regulation is very bad, and is definitely not someone who would benefit facing a scary future. You've got a second person whose efforts are all going into maintaining their household's emotional regulation who is probably so very tapped out doing it that they would not benefit from facing a scary future, and you've got a third person who probably sees you as a threat lest you destabilize the emotional regulation of Non-Copacetic Parent, thereby resulting in Sibling and Copacetic Parent having to put in more work soothing them.
"Please tell me you have been putting money aside... What do you mean you didn't save anything! How could you be so stupid!" is NOT going to go over well. Just don't have any conversation that will sound like that from their side of things. Don't do it. It won't help you, or them.
I'm not saying you are wrong to be thinking about these things, but now is the time to look at what is under your control and figure it if there is anything you can do in advance and doing it. Researching their province or state's eldercare law and financing would be a place to start. You don't need to talk to either of your parents to find out if there is funding for destitute seniors, or if when one senior needs to be place in a nursing home, the family home must be sold to pay for it leaving their partner homeless. But you sure as heck could tip them into a major melt down by asking them if they know those things, or even by telling them about it once you find out.
You may need to think of this whole project as you dealing with your own emotional regulation surrounding future anxiety about disaster hitting your parents, triggered by your inevitable process of anticipating their deaths, and both mourning and resenting it. Never mind talking to your family about such a loaded subject, what can you do to make YOURSELF feel less anxious about it. Work from the assumption that there is no secret retirement bank account - there might be and it will be nice if there turns out to be, but assume nobody has done anything.
Perhaps you would like to start a savings fund, if you even can do such a thing, which in your own mind is your eldercare emergency support fund. At first it would only hold enough money to get you down there to visit, or to pay for them to take a few taxis to help them out during a medical emergency, but if you stick to it for a few years and can keep contributing, it would build up to cover such expenses as a month of a daily home care aid coming in for an hour, or a half the cost of a winter stay in a senior home care apartment. Of course, this fund will NEVER be enough to support them both in medically expensive long stays in quality nursing care, so that is NOT what it is for - it's there for you to feel that you can handle the first few minutes or days of a crisis when it occurs.
But don't mention this fund to anyone if you do start it. If you do and it evaporates you'll feel crappy. If you mention it they may feel you owe it to them and try to get it from you. If you mention it to them, they may assume it is growing rapidly to magnificent sums and that they can rely on it in future. Or they may just resent your not being able to contribute more, or resent you being able to or trying to contribute at all. Or all of those things, at the same time.
You could consider planning as if things could go right - Non-Copacetic Parent can move in with sibling, Copacetic Parent can move in with me - The idea is to picture an at least slight plausible future, and then work from the assumption that it is possible and that things could go right, for as long as possible, simply to manage your own anxiety about what will become of your parents. Since nobody knows what the future holds, there is no reason not to hang onto the possibility that this future could happen and could turn out okay, and it is much better for your mental health to keep in mind that there are any number of good positive outcomes that could happen. You just make plans to potentially provide an old age home for your Copacetic Parent and then adjust when real life information shows you it's not going to be possible, and then you look for another plausible, possible future to work towards and expect.
Uncertainty is scary because we want to have control over the future. Yet when we don't have control we can embrace uncertainty as reassuring. We don't know if Copacetic Parent will pass away first and Non-Copacetic Parent will put pressure on you to move back home and become their live in care taker while paying all the bills. We also don't know if Non-Copacetic Parent will pass away suddenly first, incurring no medical expenses in the process, and Copacetic will sell the house during a sudden peak in property values, and admit to having a small pension you knew nothing about, and they will spend their last years happy in a tiny seniors apartment alone, playing scrabble on line with you every evening. Both those possibilities are almost equally likely right now, but the first one is the one you have power in - because in that one you have the power to flatly refuse to move in with Non-Copacetic Parent or contribute to them in any way. It might be the more satisfying future that works out better in your favour and leads to a chastened Non-Copacetic Parent in a nursing home paid for by the state, and you feeling better about yourself than ever before in your life.
If you can take that mind set and use it to regulate your own anxiety about your parents, you will be less likely to stir the pot, upset both your parents and open your own old wounds.
posted by Jane the Brown at 11:14 AM on August 19, 2024 [7 favorites]
As it played out in my family and, I suspect, in many others: there is nothing you can do until you are down to one parent. You discuss eldercare with the surviving parent a few days after the funeral. While they are both still alive, there is a really good chance they have every intention of elder caring for each other and leaving the kids out of it altogether. The way they probably see it is that everything is fine and things are not going to change. People have an amazing ability to just completely hand wave away the probable effects of aging.
So, I would just try to stay close to Copacetic Parent and avoid Terrible Parent as much as possible until one passes away. It's possible other things will happen that will lead to you having to be more involved, like an Alzheimers diagnosis or a stroke, or, or, but it's impossible to predict, so I wouldn't really try. They also may hunker down at that point and really refuse to let anyone else be involved until you get the summons to the deathbed. Surprise! Don't ask me how I know.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:01 PM on August 19, 2024 [7 favorites]
So, I would just try to stay close to Copacetic Parent and avoid Terrible Parent as much as possible until one passes away. It's possible other things will happen that will lead to you having to be more involved, like an Alzheimers diagnosis or a stroke, or, or, but it's impossible to predict, so I wouldn't really try. They also may hunker down at that point and really refuse to let anyone else be involved until you get the summons to the deathbed. Surprise! Don't ask me how I know.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:01 PM on August 19, 2024 [7 favorites]
I agree that there’s no unmeshing your parents at this point - copacetic parent has made repeated choices over time to prioritize keeping the peace at home (even if it’s not very peaceful). I totally empathize with how much it sucks to see it happen - as my siblings and I have grown up we’ve come to wish for a much better life for our mom, but she’s doubled down on siding with our dad every time. I can’t call and talk to her alone because they’re always together, he reads her emails, she puts me on speakerphone without warning, and she feels bad leaving him alone at home and thus does not want to do 1:1 activities.
I’m not going to lie, I will never be able to un-see seeing my terrible parent be extra terrible when my mom needed him to step up during her cancer treatment, and it has affected every interaction I’ve had with him since. So prepare yourself for terribleness, and don’t be afraid to protect yourself when you need to (and understand that your needs may change over time as well).
posted by Maarika at 1:27 PM on August 19, 2024
I’m not going to lie, I will never be able to un-see seeing my terrible parent be extra terrible when my mom needed him to step up during her cancer treatment, and it has affected every interaction I’ve had with him since. So prepare yourself for terribleness, and don’t be afraid to protect yourself when you need to (and understand that your needs may change over time as well).
posted by Maarika at 1:27 PM on August 19, 2024
Like several other posters, I’m in a pretty similar situation (I even have a previous Ask about it).
Since I finally decided to not engage with my Terrible (Step)Parent, I’ve been able to maintain a more relationship (albeit significantly more distant) with Copacetic Parent, but I have completely disengaged from any and all assistance or advice related to Copacetic Parent’s healthcare. Terrible Parent reached out to me after six months of silence to ask me to take Copacetic Parent to a doctor’s appointment, which Copacetic Parent said was her way of “reaching out” to me, so these two obviously do not get it.
Based solely on my experience, which is unfortunately negative, I agree with others that it’s probably going to be hard to find a way around their enmeshment that isn’t going to be hurtful for you in some way.
It’s such a crappy situation and I’m sorry.
posted by anotheraccount at 5:00 PM on August 19, 2024 [1 favorite]
Since I finally decided to not engage with my Terrible (Step)Parent, I’ve been able to maintain a more relationship (albeit significantly more distant) with Copacetic Parent, but I have completely disengaged from any and all assistance or advice related to Copacetic Parent’s healthcare. Terrible Parent reached out to me after six months of silence to ask me to take Copacetic Parent to a doctor’s appointment, which Copacetic Parent said was her way of “reaching out” to me, so these two obviously do not get it.
Based solely on my experience, which is unfortunately negative, I agree with others that it’s probably going to be hard to find a way around their enmeshment that isn’t going to be hurtful for you in some way.
It’s such a crappy situation and I’m sorry.
posted by anotheraccount at 5:00 PM on August 19, 2024 [1 favorite]
Having access to their finances can make it easier if they can't manage them anymore. You probably don't want to be covering a utility bill and turn on fees from your own money if they stop dealing with this stuff. Ideally, since they are married, you would have this for both parents. I don't know what country you are in, but ideally talk to a lawyer about this. I'm in the US and used some documents I found online for their state, but that's kind of more an I hope this works when I need it sort of thing and I should probably talk to a lawyer and get new ones.
I had discussed this sort of paperwork with one parent, they didn't even want to talk about it. I didn't bring it up for a while but later on when I was visiting, and I'd already had to drag both parents along to do some paperwork that they probably found very annoying I figured they might be more interested. Instead of discussing it going nowhere again, I found out where we could see a notary, prepared the documents for both parents, went to a print on demand place to pick them up, and told them what time we needed to be at the notary appointment. I think part of the resistance was the idea that they would have to put a lot of effort into planning and figuring out.
There's a lot of cultural pressure to "talk to your parents and figure out what they want to do" about their finances, their funeral, their health, etc. All this emphasis on following their wishes. If they refuse to talk to you about their wishes or a plan that's probably because there isn't one. Come up with a plan, even if there are some things you can't plan for them you can plan what you are willing to do.
I think it would be pretty difficult to support care for one and not the other, but maybe you are willing to do something like use their finances, which might include selling their house, to arrange for them to move to retirement apartments in your area. Very different than a nursing home but a lot of people confuse them. Take a look at what's available, they usually have free tours and sometimes give you a free meal. Some of these places have a lot of common areas where in the future you might be able to visit with one parent without the other present. If they haven't wanted to talk about plans I wouldn't bother telling them that you are looking at options.
If you are planning with people who won't discuss what they want, prioritize what works for you. Something that works for you is a much better option than something you won't be able to actually do. Also, don't assume that your parents agreeing to a plan means they will actually do their part.
posted by yohko at 12:41 PM on August 20, 2024
I had discussed this sort of paperwork with one parent, they didn't even want to talk about it. I didn't bring it up for a while but later on when I was visiting, and I'd already had to drag both parents along to do some paperwork that they probably found very annoying I figured they might be more interested. Instead of discussing it going nowhere again, I found out where we could see a notary, prepared the documents for both parents, went to a print on demand place to pick them up, and told them what time we needed to be at the notary appointment. I think part of the resistance was the idea that they would have to put a lot of effort into planning and figuring out.
There's a lot of cultural pressure to "talk to your parents and figure out what they want to do" about their finances, their funeral, their health, etc. All this emphasis on following their wishes. If they refuse to talk to you about their wishes or a plan that's probably because there isn't one. Come up with a plan, even if there are some things you can't plan for them you can plan what you are willing to do.
I think it would be pretty difficult to support care for one and not the other, but maybe you are willing to do something like use their finances, which might include selling their house, to arrange for them to move to retirement apartments in your area. Very different than a nursing home but a lot of people confuse them. Take a look at what's available, they usually have free tours and sometimes give you a free meal. Some of these places have a lot of common areas where in the future you might be able to visit with one parent without the other present. If they haven't wanted to talk about plans I wouldn't bother telling them that you are looking at options.
If you are planning with people who won't discuss what they want, prioritize what works for you. Something that works for you is a much better option than something you won't be able to actually do. Also, don't assume that your parents agreeing to a plan means they will actually do their part.
posted by yohko at 12:41 PM on August 20, 2024
On reading other answers, Jane the Brown has some more and probably better written general advice along the lines I was thinking.
I also wanted to add, make yourself aware of any laws in your area that could affect your financial obligations, and be careful of signing anything with medical or living facilities.
posted by yohko at 12:53 PM on August 20, 2024
I also wanted to add, make yourself aware of any laws in your area that could affect your financial obligations, and be careful of signing anything with medical or living facilities.
posted by yohko at 12:53 PM on August 20, 2024
Response by poster: Thank you all, these are all thoughtful and helpful perspectives. Though I’m sorry to hear so many have had stressful and upsetting parent scenarios, I’m grateful to hear personal experiences.
I’m going to sit on this all for a while before I take any action, but I am feeling more confident about being able to tackle this in my own way moving forward.
I also think I inadvertently needed to rant about Terrible Parent, because as soon as I posted this I felt a huge rush of relief to get alleviate some heaviness off my chest. So I’m going to sit with that too.
Thanks all! Still open to other perspectives as well but just wanted to acknowledge all the supportive answers so far.
posted by seemoorglass at 7:28 PM on August 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
I’m going to sit on this all for a while before I take any action, but I am feeling more confident about being able to tackle this in my own way moving forward.
I also think I inadvertently needed to rant about Terrible Parent, because as soon as I posted this I felt a huge rush of relief to get alleviate some heaviness off my chest. So I’m going to sit with that too.
Thanks all! Still open to other perspectives as well but just wanted to acknowledge all the supportive answers so far.
posted by seemoorglass at 7:28 PM on August 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
I sometimes find I’m worrying about my dad when really I’m mourning something about my relationship with my mum. Maybe you do too.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:13 PM on August 21, 2024
posted by warriorqueen at 12:13 PM on August 21, 2024
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A question you can present to them is: if dad falls and breaks his hip and can't get around anymore, what is your plan? (Or insert any similar combination of a parent and a woe betiding them.)
Let them tell you what they have already considered. If they don't have an answer, or their answer sounds incomplete to you, then you can say "I'm happy to research support options that would be available to you, if you'd like me to do that." But let them guide what they would need or want from you.
This is also a great opportunity to find out if their future planning involves something like you coming to live with them to provide in home care! Which you can absolutely create a boundary around, e.g. "that's not something I would be able to do, but I can research in-home support for you."
Ultimately, this:
I should just accept that I cannot manage eldercare for either of them.
I know in some cultures there are more expectations around what we "owe" to our parents, but that's not the culture I'm from, nor is it a culture my parents have made any effort to nurture over the course of my life. So now? I can nudge from a distance, set clear boundaries, and make offer of only what I know I can contribute. Sibling gets updated on any new news in this department by text.
posted by phunniemee at 8:56 AM on August 19, 2024 [3 favorites]