Sold a car to friends, one year later ....
July 27, 2024 8:39 PM Subscribe
I sold my mom's car to friends, a year later they've discovered problems and are seemingly holding me responsible.
Over a year ago my mom went into Hospice and requested that we give her car to her favorite public radio station. It was a typical old lady car, 10 years old, low mileage, all the oil changes right on time. She literally drove it once a week to get groceries. I know how little the station gets after towing, auction and other fees so I thought I would drive it the 350 miles to my home, handle the sale and forward the proceeds to the station. I got a price from CarMax ($11000) and a price from the CarFax ($12,300).
Our neighbors and friends of 30 years have a college graduate son who lives 300 miles away and needed a car. Great! I thought, and offered them the car for $9000 because A) we're long time friends and B) it was easy and C) it would net more money for the station than a vehicle donation would. I mentioned that it needed attention to the brakes right away. They bought it and gave it to their son. I sent all the money to my mom's favorite radio station. Win-win!
One year later, their son drove the car 300 miles back home and mentioned to his folks that the car had some trouble stopping. They took it to a trusted neighborhood mechanic to check the brakes and the mechanic found a laundry list of problems, from the brakes being "too far gone to drive safely" the tires "losing chunks of tread," corrosion on the undercarriage and "foam" in the transmission. Our friends asked me if I'd had the car inspected before I sold it to them. I said "No" because who even does that? They then sent me the report from the mechanic detailing over $11,000 worth of service needed and the recommendation that they not drive it but have it towed off the lot because the brakes were so bad.
My spouse and I felt horrible but didn't understand what the expectations were. We went over to talk with them and it seemed they were expecting some kind of reimbursement of the sale price of the car. It also emerged that they had taken the car to a dealership shortly after the purchase and were told that the brakes were "fine." Since then the friendship is strained, they've given us the cold shoulder at gatherings and haven't invited us over. I am flummoxed. I have been buying and selling cars intermittently as a hobby for over 55 years, buying from and selling to friends and strangers, an average of four cars a year and never have I ever had someone come back to me a year later expecting an adjustment on price. Never.
The friendship feels irretrievably broken, because I feel as if I'm being accused of fraud by not disclosing a material defect in the condition of the car and failing to offer recompense when, a year later, the defects were discovered. I drove the car 350 miles and the ONLY defect I noticed was that the brakes needed attention, that's all I knew about the car other than what Mom told me and the CarFax revealed, and that's what I disclosed. I have no idea how the car was treated in the year it was in their son's possession, but the brakes? The tires? I think that's indictive of the care the car received. I feel that by giving them such a discount over book price I was exceedingly generous, and any condition issues that existed at that time should have been noted when they took it to the dealer for a brake inspection. By coming back to me now, a year later, expecting money back is baffling to me. The radio station doesn't even run the spots thanking my mom for her generous donation any more, it's been so long.
Please, tell me, am I in the wrong here?
Over a year ago my mom went into Hospice and requested that we give her car to her favorite public radio station. It was a typical old lady car, 10 years old, low mileage, all the oil changes right on time. She literally drove it once a week to get groceries. I know how little the station gets after towing, auction and other fees so I thought I would drive it the 350 miles to my home, handle the sale and forward the proceeds to the station. I got a price from CarMax ($11000) and a price from the CarFax ($12,300).
Our neighbors and friends of 30 years have a college graduate son who lives 300 miles away and needed a car. Great! I thought, and offered them the car for $9000 because A) we're long time friends and B) it was easy and C) it would net more money for the station than a vehicle donation would. I mentioned that it needed attention to the brakes right away. They bought it and gave it to their son. I sent all the money to my mom's favorite radio station. Win-win!
One year later, their son drove the car 300 miles back home and mentioned to his folks that the car had some trouble stopping. They took it to a trusted neighborhood mechanic to check the brakes and the mechanic found a laundry list of problems, from the brakes being "too far gone to drive safely" the tires "losing chunks of tread," corrosion on the undercarriage and "foam" in the transmission. Our friends asked me if I'd had the car inspected before I sold it to them. I said "No" because who even does that? They then sent me the report from the mechanic detailing over $11,000 worth of service needed and the recommendation that they not drive it but have it towed off the lot because the brakes were so bad.
My spouse and I felt horrible but didn't understand what the expectations were. We went over to talk with them and it seemed they were expecting some kind of reimbursement of the sale price of the car. It also emerged that they had taken the car to a dealership shortly after the purchase and were told that the brakes were "fine." Since then the friendship is strained, they've given us the cold shoulder at gatherings and haven't invited us over. I am flummoxed. I have been buying and selling cars intermittently as a hobby for over 55 years, buying from and selling to friends and strangers, an average of four cars a year and never have I ever had someone come back to me a year later expecting an adjustment on price. Never.
The friendship feels irretrievably broken, because I feel as if I'm being accused of fraud by not disclosing a material defect in the condition of the car and failing to offer recompense when, a year later, the defects were discovered. I drove the car 350 miles and the ONLY defect I noticed was that the brakes needed attention, that's all I knew about the car other than what Mom told me and the CarFax revealed, and that's what I disclosed. I have no idea how the car was treated in the year it was in their son's possession, but the brakes? The tires? I think that's indictive of the care the car received. I feel that by giving them such a discount over book price I was exceedingly generous, and any condition issues that existed at that time should have been noted when they took it to the dealer for a brake inspection. By coming back to me now, a year later, expecting money back is baffling to me. The radio station doesn't even run the spots thanking my mom for her generous donation any more, it's been so long.
Please, tell me, am I in the wrong here?
No, you're not wrong. You told them about the brakes. If they weren't smart enough to get the car checked at time of purchase, that's on them. To me this sounds like the adult son drove it for a year, then drove it home and expected his parents to pick up the tab when he didn't take care of it for a year. Cars need maintenance, that they didn't handle any of that for a year on a car they knew was used - not your problem.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 8:45 PM on July 27, 2024 [34 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 8:45 PM on July 27, 2024 [34 favorites]
Not a chance. They are regretting not getting it inspected at the time (if these problems even existed then!) and are taking it out on you, simple as.
posted by supercres at 8:48 PM on July 27, 2024 [6 favorites]
posted by supercres at 8:48 PM on July 27, 2024 [6 favorites]
When I have purchased used cars in the past, it has been on me, the buyer, to take it to a mechanic for inspection.
I don't think you are all financially responsible for anything that happens 1 year after purchase. If you think the friendship is that important then, you could offer them something, but I suspect that whatever you offer, if it is below their expectations, will be unsatisfactory and not enough (in their eyes) to repair the friendship.
Next time, insist the buyer takes the car to the mechanic of their choice at their expense before buying.
posted by brookeb at 8:50 PM on July 27, 2024 [5 favorites]
I don't think you are all financially responsible for anything that happens 1 year after purchase. If you think the friendship is that important then, you could offer them something, but I suspect that whatever you offer, if it is below their expectations, will be unsatisfactory and not enough (in their eyes) to repair the friendship.
Next time, insist the buyer takes the car to the mechanic of their choice at their expense before buying.
posted by brookeb at 8:50 PM on July 27, 2024 [5 favorites]
A year later? For a used car? Forget it - too bad about the broken friendship, but nobody involved at the time had a problem with this 'as-is' sale. Way too late to reneg; they should be embarrassed, even asking.
posted by Rash at 8:55 PM on July 27, 2024 [24 favorites]
posted by Rash at 8:55 PM on July 27, 2024 [24 favorites]
Just chimimg in to say that when we bought a used car, it was our responsibility to take it to be inspected. Your friends are being unreasonable.
I don't think you giving in to their demands to whatever extent will do anything to repair the friendship either. That ship has sailed when they started treating you so badly.
They didn't have to react to your "no" in such a petty way. They could have valued the friendship more than a misunderstanding about money. They didn't. That was their choice.
posted by Zumbador at 9:00 PM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
I don't think you giving in to their demands to whatever extent will do anything to repair the friendship either. That ship has sailed when they started treating you so badly.
They didn't have to react to your "no" in such a petty way. They could have valued the friendship more than a misunderstanding about money. They didn't. That was their choice.
posted by Zumbador at 9:00 PM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
You are entirely in the right. Three things:
A non-mechanic driver can't diagnose transmission problems with confidence, even if there had been any signs.
Buying a ten-year-old car means all bets are off for its longevity, even for the power train. There's a reason warranties are below that time frame.
It's unreasonable to expect compensation for used goods, especially a year after the fact.
As for the friendship: They're under stress because of the problems, so they're owed a tiny bit of slack for that. But to come at you with a laundry list of issues a year later isn't fair.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 9:00 PM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
A non-mechanic driver can't diagnose transmission problems with confidence, even if there had been any signs.
Buying a ten-year-old car means all bets are off for its longevity, even for the power train. There's a reason warranties are below that time frame.
It's unreasonable to expect compensation for used goods, especially a year after the fact.
As for the friendship: They're under stress because of the problems, so they're owed a tiny bit of slack for that. But to come at you with a laundry list of issues a year later isn't fair.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 9:00 PM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
As you noted, most of these things just sound like wear-and-tear. Brakes? both rotors and pads are wear items and need periodic replacement. Even master cylinders are expected to need replacement...at a little over 100k miles. Tires? It's hopefully already on its second set. You don't buy a 10-year-old car and expect it to have zero service requirements plus new tires and brakes. Similarly, it would be weird for a car of this age not to have visible rust.
If the frame is rusted to the point that it wouldn't hold up in a collision and the car is unsafe to drive, or there's coolant leaking into the transmission fluid and it needs to be rebuilt, sure, those are larger problems. But the car has now been driven for a year under unknown circumstances (ahem, kids are notoriously hard on cars) and it doesn't sound like you're being engaged with in good faith anyway, so I don't think it's worth pursuing your neighbors to find out whether there are actual serious issues or if they're just making intimations (I'd note they did not say "the frame is shot and we're scrapping it" or "it needs $2500 of transmission work"). And, as everyone else has noted, it's on you to be satisified by the inspection (or pass one up) when you buy a used car. Caveat emptor.
posted by pullayup at 9:12 PM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
If the frame is rusted to the point that it wouldn't hold up in a collision and the car is unsafe to drive, or there's coolant leaking into the transmission fluid and it needs to be rebuilt, sure, those are larger problems. But the car has now been driven for a year under unknown circumstances (ahem, kids are notoriously hard on cars) and it doesn't sound like you're being engaged with in good faith anyway, so I don't think it's worth pursuing your neighbors to find out whether there are actual serious issues or if they're just making intimations (I'd note they did not say "the frame is shot and we're scrapping it" or "it needs $2500 of transmission work"). And, as everyone else has noted, it's on you to be satisified by the inspection (or pass one up) when you buy a used car. Caveat emptor.
posted by pullayup at 9:12 PM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
It also emerged that they had taken the car to a dealership shortly after the purchase and were told that the brakes were "fine."
This is an odd detail. It seems unlikely that a dealership would only inspect the brakes and not comment on balding tires, etc. It would be interesting to see the report from the dealership at the time, but if the brakes are completely destroyed at that point that’s really on the dealership for missing it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:32 PM on July 27, 2024 [21 favorites]
This is an odd detail. It seems unlikely that a dealership would only inspect the brakes and not comment on balding tires, etc. It would be interesting to see the report from the dealership at the time, but if the brakes are completely destroyed at that point that’s really on the dealership for missing it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:32 PM on July 27, 2024 [21 favorites]
Look even if you sold them a falling-apart piece of junk, they still bought it. That's was their responsibility to check out.
You DIDN'T sell them a falling-apart piece of junk, you sold them a perfectly good used car and their kid failed to maintain it. You owe them not a damn thing and they're gross for trying to guilt you into paying anything. After doing them a favor. JFC get better friends anyway.
posted by ctmf at 9:54 PM on July 27, 2024 [6 favorites]
You DIDN'T sell them a falling-apart piece of junk, you sold them a perfectly good used car and their kid failed to maintain it. You owe them not a damn thing and they're gross for trying to guilt you into paying anything. After doing them a favor. JFC get better friends anyway.
posted by ctmf at 9:54 PM on July 27, 2024 [6 favorites]
they're insane to expect you to be responsible for any problems found a year later
posted by Jacqueline at 11:50 PM on July 27, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 11:50 PM on July 27, 2024 [5 favorites]
I feel like it's common knowledge that private used car sales are 'as seen' and the onus is on the purchaser to get it inspected (potentially before sale) if they have any qualms.
Where I live there's a common scam where people will buy used cars on low-recourse platforms like Facebook Marketplace, then claim within a few days of purchase that the car has all sorts of issues that it definitely didn't have at the point of sale and demand some or all of the purchase price back. I'm not saying these 'friends' are trying to scam you, just pointing out that the answer is always, always, that the purchasers bought the car as seen and the seller owes them nothing - and that's for issues they claim crop up within a few days, not a full year later.
I agree with all the other commenters that your 'friends' are being wildly unreasonable, and this would definitely sour any friendship that remained if something similar happened to me.
posted by terretu at 12:20 AM on July 28, 2024 [1 favorite]
Where I live there's a common scam where people will buy used cars on low-recourse platforms like Facebook Marketplace, then claim within a few days of purchase that the car has all sorts of issues that it definitely didn't have at the point of sale and demand some or all of the purchase price back. I'm not saying these 'friends' are trying to scam you, just pointing out that the answer is always, always, that the purchasers bought the car as seen and the seller owes them nothing - and that's for issues they claim crop up within a few days, not a full year later.
I agree with all the other commenters that your 'friends' are being wildly unreasonable, and this would definitely sour any friendship that remained if something similar happened to me.
posted by terretu at 12:20 AM on July 28, 2024 [1 favorite]
You have two possible responses:
1) Not my problem.
2) Dear neighbors, your kid drove this car for a year? Did you do any maintenance on a decade old car or just hope the lord would provide? Also, see (1)
You didn't, and then drove it for a year? Well then...
posted by zippy at 12:36 AM on July 28, 2024 [10 favorites]
1) Not my problem.
2) Dear neighbors, your kid drove this car for a year? Did you do any maintenance on a decade old car or just hope the lord would provide? Also, see (1)
You didn't, and then drove it for a year? Well then...
posted by zippy at 12:36 AM on July 28, 2024 [10 favorites]
Our friends asked me if I'd had the car inspected before I sold it to them. I said "No" because who even does that?
I probably would, TBH, or insist that the buyer do it, specifically to avoid this kind of thing. I'm not someone who knows how used car sales are usually done - I'd just feel a combination of responsibility and a desire to cover my ass.
I'm not trying to say you were irresponsible towards your friends - I'm also someone who as a buyer would insist on getting an inspection if there hadn't been one. But trying to be charitable to your friends, maybe this was the first time they'd ever bought a used car and had different expectations than yours about how the whole thing works. Something like "we can buy from our friend with peace of mind because we know they're trustworthy, they'd never sell us a lemon." Or "When we sell big things we inspect them first to make sure we're not selling anyone something they'll regret, so of course our friends will do the same." Maybe even "they'd be offended if we took it for an inspection before selling, especially if we tried to haggle on price after the report", who knows.
That doesn't mean they're right, at all (especially since cars developing problems is a thing that happens in general, it's part of life), but it could explain the sense of betrayal they might be feeling. Even if they weren't thinking in those terms, it's natural that they'd wonder if you knew about this stuff before selling - it's a deeply uncharitable thought, but brains go there. They probably are genuinely hurt and dismayed.
Still doesn't mean they're right, and it sucks. To bring you the mechanic's report, with numbers, is besides anything else gauche in the extreme in every culture I'm personally aware of. I'm sorry all this is happening.
They know you didn't sell the car for personal gain, right? That the money went to charity? If they know that, that should go a long way towards alleviating any uncharitable feelings they might have; if they're doing all of this with that knowledge, that's even more insensitive towards you.
posted by trig at 1:55 AM on July 28, 2024 [3 favorites]
I probably would, TBH, or insist that the buyer do it, specifically to avoid this kind of thing. I'm not someone who knows how used car sales are usually done - I'd just feel a combination of responsibility and a desire to cover my ass.
I'm not trying to say you were irresponsible towards your friends - I'm also someone who as a buyer would insist on getting an inspection if there hadn't been one. But trying to be charitable to your friends, maybe this was the first time they'd ever bought a used car and had different expectations than yours about how the whole thing works. Something like "we can buy from our friend with peace of mind because we know they're trustworthy, they'd never sell us a lemon." Or "When we sell big things we inspect them first to make sure we're not selling anyone something they'll regret, so of course our friends will do the same." Maybe even "they'd be offended if we took it for an inspection before selling, especially if we tried to haggle on price after the report", who knows.
That doesn't mean they're right, at all (especially since cars developing problems is a thing that happens in general, it's part of life), but it could explain the sense of betrayal they might be feeling. Even if they weren't thinking in those terms, it's natural that they'd wonder if you knew about this stuff before selling - it's a deeply uncharitable thought, but brains go there. They probably are genuinely hurt and dismayed.
Still doesn't mean they're right, and it sucks. To bring you the mechanic's report, with numbers, is besides anything else gauche in the extreme in every culture I'm personally aware of. I'm sorry all this is happening.
They know you didn't sell the car for personal gain, right? That the money went to charity? If they know that, that should go a long way towards alleviating any uncharitable feelings they might have; if they're doing all of this with that knowledge, that's even more insensitive towards you.
posted by trig at 1:55 AM on July 28, 2024 [3 favorites]
They then sent me the report from the mechanic detailing over $11,000 worth of service needed and the recommendation that they not drive it but have it towed off the lot because the brakes were so bad.
You're not in the wrong. I would consider this friendship over, because this is exactly what a person does to communicate they never really saw value in their association with you. They support their son to be a spoiled selfish entitled manchild, and if you cave you're supporting that. If you cave, who's next? Who else will he go crying to with a magical $10,000 bill for his active negligence of his adult responsibilities? Much like those parents who buy their kids guns instead of doing actual parenting and cry "why me" when it turns out they've raised a mass shooter, who else is going to become responsible for the failure of their offspring to mature into a 'man'?
posted by human ecologist at 3:07 AM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
You're not in the wrong. I would consider this friendship over, because this is exactly what a person does to communicate they never really saw value in their association with you. They support their son to be a spoiled selfish entitled manchild, and if you cave you're supporting that. If you cave, who's next? Who else will he go crying to with a magical $10,000 bill for his active negligence of his adult responsibilities? Much like those parents who buy their kids guns instead of doing actual parenting and cry "why me" when it turns out they've raised a mass shooter, who else is going to become responsible for the failure of their offspring to mature into a 'man'?
posted by human ecologist at 3:07 AM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
Your mom had just gone into hospice and you sold the car to them at a more than fair price! It was absolutely on them to get the car checked out! You did nothing wrong!
Also according to their dealership the brakes were fine a year ago but according to the current mechanic they now dangerously unusable. That could be true, brakes are wear parts and they can deteriorate a lot over a year and if it *is* true it's especially not your problem.
I would cut these people some slack since they're old friends and this may be an amount of money that they're unable to cover comfortably. Heck, at this point they may even be avoiding you because they know they've been ridiculous and they're embarrassed about it.
I'm sorry this happened and I hope the friendship is not ruined but if it is, I don't think it's because of anything you did.
posted by mskyle at 4:51 AM on July 28, 2024 [3 favorites]
Also according to their dealership the brakes were fine a year ago but according to the current mechanic they now dangerously unusable. That could be true, brakes are wear parts and they can deteriorate a lot over a year and if it *is* true it's especially not your problem.
I would cut these people some slack since they're old friends and this may be an amount of money that they're unable to cover comfortably. Heck, at this point they may even be avoiding you because they know they've been ridiculous and they're embarrassed about it.
I'm sorry this happened and I hope the friendship is not ruined but if it is, I don't think it's because of anything you did.
posted by mskyle at 4:51 AM on July 28, 2024 [3 favorites]
Best answer: The friendship feels irretrievably broken...
Quite right.
I am sorry to say that your friends would like to hold you responsible for the condition of an eleven year old car that wasn't yours in the first place, that was cleared by the dealer after they bought it, and which was owned by their family member and not properly maintained for an entire year.
If they don't dump you, you need to dump them. They are the kind of people who deal with distress by blaming someone tangential and getting angry at them. Probably not good people to keep being friends with.
It's not at all difficult to run a ten year old car into the ground in a year, by not doing maintenance on it. They probably are thinking of what cars cost in the eighties and nineties, when a nine thousand dollar car was expected to last longer than a year, and that price point meant it was in very good shape, rather than ten years old, with tires that would last another six months. But they don't get that... And their response to that is to try to make you change reality.
Very likely they are screwed because their son needs a car and they can't afford to buy another one... But that's not on you. The fact that they are trying to make it on you is troubling. If they come back, two years from now, apologetic, after gaining more experience with the lifespan of second hand cares, you can probably consider trying to resume the friendship. But you can't make them happy. If you paid them eleven thousand dollars to make them whole, they would ever after think of you as that shyster who deceptively sold them a dud car, but that they were able to force you to pay them back and you didn't get away with the fraud because they were assertive and stood up for themselves. This friendship isn't going anywhere.
It feels like crap to be attacked like this, by people you thought were friends.
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:46 AM on July 28, 2024 [18 favorites]
Quite right.
I am sorry to say that your friends would like to hold you responsible for the condition of an eleven year old car that wasn't yours in the first place, that was cleared by the dealer after they bought it, and which was owned by their family member and not properly maintained for an entire year.
If they don't dump you, you need to dump them. They are the kind of people who deal with distress by blaming someone tangential and getting angry at them. Probably not good people to keep being friends with.
It's not at all difficult to run a ten year old car into the ground in a year, by not doing maintenance on it. They probably are thinking of what cars cost in the eighties and nineties, when a nine thousand dollar car was expected to last longer than a year, and that price point meant it was in very good shape, rather than ten years old, with tires that would last another six months. But they don't get that... And their response to that is to try to make you change reality.
Very likely they are screwed because their son needs a car and they can't afford to buy another one... But that's not on you. The fact that they are trying to make it on you is troubling. If they come back, two years from now, apologetic, after gaining more experience with the lifespan of second hand cares, you can probably consider trying to resume the friendship. But you can't make them happy. If you paid them eleven thousand dollars to make them whole, they would ever after think of you as that shyster who deceptively sold them a dud car, but that they were able to force you to pay them back and you didn't get away with the fraud because they were assertive and stood up for themselves. This friendship isn't going anywhere.
It feels like crap to be attacked like this, by people you thought were friends.
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:46 AM on July 28, 2024 [18 favorites]
I haven't seen this mentioned above but consider the fact that mechanics often have really different diagnostics about cars. It might benefit them to get a second opinion before they become so hostile toward you. That's why it's a good idea to shop around for a mechanic that you consider competent and trustworthy.
Out of a lot of great mechanics over my car owning years, I did have one mechanic that estimated huge sums of repair every single time I brought my car to him. Eventually, I moved on to another mechanic.
I am also in the camp that feels they should have had the car evaluated at the beginning, as well as the car had a whole year of use that you can't be held accountable for.
posted by effluvia at 5:53 AM on July 28, 2024 [12 favorites]
Out of a lot of great mechanics over my car owning years, I did have one mechanic that estimated huge sums of repair every single time I brought my car to him. Eventually, I moved on to another mechanic.
I am also in the camp that feels they should have had the car evaluated at the beginning, as well as the car had a whole year of use that you can't be held accountable for.
posted by effluvia at 5:53 AM on July 28, 2024 [12 favorites]
One thing no one has touched on is that perhaps their "trusted neighborhood mechanic" is either not as trustworthy as they believe, not particularly knowledgeable or is just writing an older car up for every less than perfect part. It's easy to generate an enormous quote on an older car by flagging (for example) minor weeping on various seals as needing replacement. How does a set of tires, a complete brake overhaul and maybe a radiator (if the trans cooler has failed and is letting coolant mix with the transmission fluid) equal $11k? I'll note that you didn't specify what kind of car it is, I guess this quote might be more in line if it's a premium European vehicle or something. A second opinion might be a good idea.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:05 AM on July 28, 2024 [18 favorites]
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:05 AM on July 28, 2024 [18 favorites]
Caveat emptor, yo: as a buyer of a few used cars, no seller ever minded me taking it to my mechanic.
Your friends' anger is just displaced from their kid. Did they not teach him? Is he a bum? Whatever -- but that isn't on you.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:29 AM on July 28, 2024 [5 favorites]
Your friends' anger is just displaced from their kid. Did they not teach him? Is he a bum? Whatever -- but that isn't on you.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:29 AM on July 28, 2024 [5 favorites]
Even if you were a dealer, the Wisconsin lemon law is limited to one year. Someone was irresponsible with this car and it wasn’t you.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:31 AM on July 28, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:31 AM on July 28, 2024 [3 favorites]
Did you ever have title to the car? Sounds like you were just the agent for your mom or her estate, so any claim they have is against the same, not you. (Of course as everyone has pointed out, there is no reasonable claim.)
posted by grouse at 7:56 AM on July 28, 2024
posted by grouse at 7:56 AM on July 28, 2024
Brakes wear with use. Tires wear with use and rot with time. They are consumables.
OP, the year-ago buyer is giving you grief, but it's not your responsibility. They're treating you like a con artist when you a) did not hide information, b) gave them a good price, c) they had every opportunity to say no, pay for an inspection, and service the car (which would be a very normal thing for a buyer of a 10 year old car to do on purchase).
Keep your answers to them simple. You do not need to explain yourself. You have not wrecked your friendship, they have.
"This is not my problem."
posted by zippy at 9:17 AM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
OP, the year-ago buyer is giving you grief, but it's not your responsibility. They're treating you like a con artist when you a) did not hide information, b) gave them a good price, c) they had every opportunity to say no, pay for an inspection, and service the car (which would be a very normal thing for a buyer of a 10 year old car to do on purchase).
Keep your answers to them simple. You do not need to explain yourself. You have not wrecked your friendship, they have.
"This is not my problem."
posted by zippy at 9:17 AM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
They are silly, bad friends & probably annoying people.
If the friendship was so important to them, they’d give you a little grace. But it’s not, so now you know how they feel about it.
I’d ignore them until they have something to gain from talking to you which is probably when the cold shoulder will end. Transactional friendship.
posted by stoneandstar at 12:08 PM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
If the friendship was so important to them, they’d give you a little grace. But it’s not, so now you know how they feel about it.
I’d ignore them until they have something to gain from talking to you which is probably when the cold shoulder will end. Transactional friendship.
posted by stoneandstar at 12:08 PM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
> haven't seen this mentioned above but consider the fact that mechanics often have really different diagnostics about cars.
Yeah, this. I could probably get a car like this going again just fine for around a $1000, or perhaps if things go quite badly, $2000 or so.
$1000-$2000/year is the annual amount you expect to spend on routine maintenance and upkeep on a vehicle of this age.
You don't need to replace like the entire engine and transmission because some "foam" was found in the transmission (because replacing a bunch of major things like the transmission is what an $11K estimate is trying to do). You just replace the fluid, do some conditioning type things that transmission places like to do, and almost certainly it will be good for another year or two or maybe 5 or 10. Maybe there is a leak somewhere (water in the transmission fluid) and you can just fix that. More likely it was either overfilled or transmission overheated at some point - and guess who is most likely responsible for that: Your elderly mother or the new teenage driver?
If you were to end up spending $5K or even $10 on it, the reason would be that you're going to come out the other end with a whole new engine and/or transmission and sometimes that is worth doing because of the value you will gain from it - even if not in blue book value, in future years of use.
TL;DR: Their mechanic is almost certainly right off his rocker. What they are almost certainly looking at instead is normally regular maintenance cost for a vehicle of this age and they need to grow up and buck up and not try to shift that onto someone else.
posted by flug at 2:04 PM on July 28, 2024 [5 favorites]
Yeah, this. I could probably get a car like this going again just fine for around a $1000, or perhaps if things go quite badly, $2000 or so.
$1000-$2000/year is the annual amount you expect to spend on routine maintenance and upkeep on a vehicle of this age.
You don't need to replace like the entire engine and transmission because some "foam" was found in the transmission (because replacing a bunch of major things like the transmission is what an $11K estimate is trying to do). You just replace the fluid, do some conditioning type things that transmission places like to do, and almost certainly it will be good for another year or two or maybe 5 or 10. Maybe there is a leak somewhere (water in the transmission fluid) and you can just fix that. More likely it was either overfilled or transmission overheated at some point - and guess who is most likely responsible for that: Your elderly mother or the new teenage driver?
If you were to end up spending $5K or even $10 on it, the reason would be that you're going to come out the other end with a whole new engine and/or transmission and sometimes that is worth doing because of the value you will gain from it - even if not in blue book value, in future years of use.
TL;DR: Their mechanic is almost certainly right off his rocker. What they are almost certainly looking at instead is normally regular maintenance cost for a vehicle of this age and they need to grow up and buck up and not try to shift that onto someone else.
posted by flug at 2:04 PM on July 28, 2024 [5 favorites]
You had an offer from CarMax for $11,000. You sold it to them for $9,000. Presumably, CarMax would mark it up to say $13,000. Your neighbor saved between $2,000 and $4,000 on the purchase. They could have or even should have taken some of that savings and had it checked out especially if their son was driving it for 6+ hours to college.
No good deed goes unpunished. I think the silver lining is that you learned the true nature of your friends. What if it happened two years after you sold it to them? What is the time frame they think is appropriate to come back? My answer is 3-5 days or whatever your state says about returning a car purchased from a dealer.
While it may be interesting to look at the report from their mechanic, it means nothing to you. Tell them 100% of the money went to charity and you are not giving them anything back.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:07 PM on July 28, 2024 [5 favorites]
No good deed goes unpunished. I think the silver lining is that you learned the true nature of your friends. What if it happened two years after you sold it to them? What is the time frame they think is appropriate to come back? My answer is 3-5 days or whatever your state says about returning a car purchased from a dealer.
While it may be interesting to look at the report from their mechanic, it means nothing to you. Tell them 100% of the money went to charity and you are not giving them anything back.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:07 PM on July 28, 2024 [5 favorites]
RE: Rust on the undercarriage: It would be a miracle if a car this age didn't have some rust on the undercarriage. So what?
RE: Undrivable: Yeah, that is solely because of the brakes. Which are a consumable that has been consumed. It's not like this is some sort of completely unusable and worthless vehicle simply because their dumb kid drove the brakes past the point of safety.
They and/or their mechanic are exaggerating in some kind of a ploy for sympathy and/or money. Your job is to simply ignore their puerile antics.
posted by flug at 2:11 PM on July 28, 2024 [2 favorites]
RE: Undrivable: Yeah, that is solely because of the brakes. Which are a consumable that has been consumed. It's not like this is some sort of completely unusable and worthless vehicle simply because their dumb kid drove the brakes past the point of safety.
They and/or their mechanic are exaggerating in some kind of a ploy for sympathy and/or money. Your job is to simply ignore their puerile antics.
posted by flug at 2:11 PM on July 28, 2024 [2 favorites]
LOL, no, you are absolutely not in the wrong. You wouldn't have been even if these problems had come up a couple of months after the sale, but bringing this up to you a year later is absolutely ridiculous. It's especially egregious when you're talking about a decade-old vehicle that clearly had no maintenance since it changed hands.
Your so-called friends are playing on your good nature and your respect for the longstanding relationship to try to take financial advantage of you. You know their circumstances better than this internet stranger and so might decide to cut them some slack if they are under extreme pressure, but they are not acting like friends here. Responsibility for any tension or hard feelings here lies with them.
posted by rpfields at 2:40 PM on July 28, 2024
Your so-called friends are playing on your good nature and your respect for the longstanding relationship to try to take financial advantage of you. You know their circumstances better than this internet stranger and so might decide to cut them some slack if they are under extreme pressure, but they are not acting like friends here. Responsibility for any tension or hard feelings here lies with them.
posted by rpfields at 2:40 PM on July 28, 2024
If the car ran out of gas, are you responsible for that?!
Just for your own closure you might write them…just like you told us…what happened and that you value their friendship. Maybe they are missing the facts about the donation, the state of the brakes, etc.
posted by artdrectr at 2:46 PM on July 28, 2024 [2 favorites]
Just for your own closure you might write them…just like you told us…what happened and that you value their friendship. Maybe they are missing the facts about the donation, the state of the brakes, etc.
posted by artdrectr at 2:46 PM on July 28, 2024 [2 favorites]
“Wow! That estimate sounds absurdly high. I’d take it to a different mechanic and get another opinion. This doesn’t seem accurate. Unfortunately, all the proceeds from the sale have been donated per my mother’s wishes. And it has been a year. I sold it for several thousand under market value and I just can’t offer you anything more.”
posted by amanda at 3:36 PM on July 28, 2024 [7 favorites]
posted by amanda at 3:36 PM on July 28, 2024 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all so much, thanks for the validation and words of support. As I said, I have been buying and selling cars for a long time and never experienced this, especially with people with whom I'd been so close. To answer a few questions: I trust the mechanic implicitly, he works on my car and, yes, he'll tell you all that's wrong and give his recommendations. The car is a Ford Fusion, which apparently is known for transmission issues. They are not financially struggling, and usually lease cars rather than buy them. I appreciate all your comments and I want to give you ALL the best answer because I really needed your support. Thanks!
posted by Floydd at 4:25 PM on July 28, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by Floydd at 4:25 PM on July 28, 2024 [2 favorites]
and usually lease cars rather than buy them
That explains a lot. Sounds like they're mentally stuck in the model where they're customers of a "we'll take care of you" service, rather than as-is buyers.
posted by trig at 4:50 PM on July 28, 2024 [3 favorites]
That explains a lot. Sounds like they're mentally stuck in the model where they're customers of a "we'll take care of you" service, rather than as-is buyers.
posted by trig at 4:50 PM on July 28, 2024 [3 favorites]
There's no way you are responsible. You divulged what you knew (brakes need attention), sold it to them well below market value and that's more than you would reasonably be expected to do.
They didn't get the brakes fixed and, based on the symptoms, either didn't look after the car or thrashed the life out of it (we were all teenagers once) or probably both and, because they always lease cars where repairs are free, want you to cover that. I call bullshit on the $11k repair quote anyway and it sounds like someone is trying to take advantage of them. They need to learn a few home truths and so does their son.
posted by dg at 8:45 PM on July 28, 2024 [1 favorite]
They didn't get the brakes fixed and, based on the symptoms, either didn't look after the car or thrashed the life out of it (we were all teenagers once) or probably both and, because they always lease cars where repairs are free, want you to cover that. I call bullshit on the $11k repair quote anyway and it sounds like someone is trying to take advantage of them. They need to learn a few home truths and so does their son.
posted by dg at 8:45 PM on July 28, 2024 [1 favorite]
What is the make & model? Some automobiles need extra attention as they age.
posted by ovvl at 5:28 AM on July 29, 2024
posted by ovvl at 5:28 AM on July 29, 2024
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A year is more than enough time to find issues, or create new ones. I believe your friends are being unfair to you in the extreme.
posted by Alensin at 8:44 PM on July 27, 2024 [60 favorites]