Question about D 'n A...
May 12, 2006 11:16 AM Subscribe
Iconic Dionysus / Apollonian imagery (i.e., for a tattoo)?
I'm looking for clean, nice iconography for Dionysus and / or Apollo, but I'm not having much luck. There are plenty of things that are associated with them (the lyre, wine, &c.) but nothing that seems iconic. If I showed you a perfect circle, for example, you might not say, "Oh, Apollo!" even if I explained that it represented the rising sun...
To put it another way, if you were a devotee of either of those fine fellows, what would you get tattooed on you arm?
Follow up question: There's crescent moon, the reversed swastika, and then Christ has both the cross (best logo evar!) and the fish (which is also nice). Is this sort of easily-recognizable branding a modern (within the last two thousand years) thing for organized relegion? Or have religious orders always had such symbols, but they've been lost in time? Was the Star of David intimately connected with Judaism three thousand years ago?
I'm looking for clean, nice iconography for Dionysus and / or Apollo, but I'm not having much luck. There are plenty of things that are associated with them (the lyre, wine, &c.) but nothing that seems iconic. If I showed you a perfect circle, for example, you might not say, "Oh, Apollo!" even if I explained that it represented the rising sun...
To put it another way, if you were a devotee of either of those fine fellows, what would you get tattooed on you arm?
Follow up question: There's crescent moon, the reversed swastika, and then Christ has both the cross (best logo evar!) and the fish (which is also nice). Is this sort of easily-recognizable branding a modern (within the last two thousand years) thing for organized relegion? Or have religious orders always had such symbols, but they've been lost in time? Was the Star of David intimately connected with Judaism three thousand years ago?
To your follow-up: that kind of iconography is about as old as humanity itself. I can't speak for the start of David specifically, but Iran (for example) has still-recognizable icons that date back to a thousand years B.C.E. If I had to venture a guess (and I am not a semiologist, nor a Religious Studies scholar, so that's all it is, a guess) I'd say that a great deal of religious symbols have been lost over time.
BUT--remember that "religion" and "icon" mean very different things outside of a Judeo-Christian/Monotheistic/"Western" context; and obviously what applies to what we might call "Abrahamic" or "Western" or "Aryo-Semitic"(OK I just made that one up) religions probably doesn't apply elsewhere.
This is actually a way-cool and really incredibly interesting question, by the way.
Oh yeah, as for Dionysus and Apollo, I don't know. You should just get a big tattoo of Nietzsche.
posted by maxreax at 11:28 AM on May 12, 2006
BUT--remember that "religion" and "icon" mean very different things outside of a Judeo-Christian/Monotheistic/"Western" context; and obviously what applies to what we might call "Abrahamic" or "Western" or "Aryo-Semitic"(OK I just made that one up) religions probably doesn't apply elsewhere.
This is actually a way-cool and really incredibly interesting question, by the way.
Oh yeah, as for Dionysus and Apollo, I don't know. You should just get a big tattoo of Nietzsche.
posted by maxreax at 11:28 AM on May 12, 2006
If the sun alone isn't specific enough, how about the sun and a quiver of arrows?
posted by nebulawindphone at 11:38 AM on May 12, 2006
posted by nebulawindphone at 11:38 AM on May 12, 2006
Apollo was also know for his use of the lyre and, I believe, the laurel wreath given to nobles, sages, and leaders.
posted by lekvar at 12:07 PM on May 12, 2006
posted by lekvar at 12:07 PM on May 12, 2006
Are you trying to express the conflict of extremes/dual nature of humanity with the tattoo? Or thinking of doing one on one arm and one on another?
If you want a larger sized, wilder, modern looking tattoo, you could look into the bacchae tearing an animal apart - sort of an orgy scene.
To really read Apollo you'd almost have to to the whole chariot with a sun thing.
In terms of small symbols, I think of a bunch of grapes and an arrow.
posted by rainbaby at 12:10 PM on May 12, 2006
If you want a larger sized, wilder, modern looking tattoo, you could look into the bacchae tearing an animal apart - sort of an orgy scene.
To really read Apollo you'd almost have to to the whole chariot with a sun thing.
In terms of small symbols, I think of a bunch of grapes and an arrow.
posted by rainbaby at 12:10 PM on May 12, 2006
A phallus for Dionysus and a lyre/laurel wreath for Apollo.
posted by ancientgower at 1:02 PM on May 12, 2006
posted by ancientgower at 1:02 PM on May 12, 2006
Best answer: I think you're not going to find exactly what your looking for, but will have to blend some images to get your point across. Not because they didn't use that kind of iconography, but because the modern audience doesn't recognize that iconography. For example, the cross used to be a symbol of Apollo. You could use one of the other symbols, but no one will get it. Except maybe the sun symbol (I think of Roman origin), which is still used.
So if you just want something iconic, use one of those. But if you really want people to know what it is without asking, you're going to have to give extra clues. Rainbaby's sun chariot for Apollo is a good idea. Maybe a grapevine wrapped around a flute for Dionysus. Although, I personally like this simple chemistry symbol for wine.
posted by team lowkey at 3:20 PM on May 12, 2006
So if you just want something iconic, use one of those. But if you really want people to know what it is without asking, you're going to have to give extra clues. Rainbaby's sun chariot for Apollo is a good idea. Maybe a grapevine wrapped around a flute for Dionysus. Although, I personally like this simple chemistry symbol for wine.
posted by team lowkey at 3:20 PM on May 12, 2006
Riffing off ancientgower's and team lowkey's comments, I mocked up a stylized laurel-lyre combo for ya.
posted by rob511 at 7:53 PM on May 12, 2006
posted by rob511 at 7:53 PM on May 12, 2006
Response by poster: Thank you AskMe! As I said, I'm not actually getting this tattoo (yet) but I will certainly post whatever I end up doing. The thyrus was exactly what I was looking for--simple, clean, no co-opted by someone else but with a nice historical precedent. I also really like lowkey'swine symbol.
As for Apollo, this one meets most of my criteria, although I'll keep looking. Ideally I'd find something that also made reference to rationality, design, &c. I really like nebulawindphone's idea of arrows--simple, iconic, and very rational. Possibly the laurel, though. rob511--that rocks!
posted by Squid Voltaire at 10:47 AM on May 15, 2006
As for Apollo, this one meets most of my criteria, although I'll keep looking. Ideally I'd find something that also made reference to rationality, design, &c. I really like nebulawindphone's idea of arrows--simple, iconic, and very rational. Possibly the laurel, though. rob511--that rocks!
posted by Squid Voltaire at 10:47 AM on May 15, 2006
Response by poster: Oooh, and if you combine the lyre and the wine symbols from team lowkey, you get a horned goat!
Big googly eyes, long, curly horns?
posted by Squid Voltaire at 11:22 AM on May 15, 2006
Big googly eyes, long, curly horns?
posted by Squid Voltaire at 11:22 AM on May 15, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by misteraitch at 11:23 AM on May 12, 2006