Perfecting the claw trim with a level 4 cat
June 16, 2024 7:36 PM Subscribe
Foster cat Jonathan Cat is, well, freaked out about getting his claws trimmed. One toe in particular seems to hurt when manipulated at all, and he gets very upset when any claw is trimmed. So far, trimming one claw per day sometimes works (except the painful one), but that's really too much for _me_, and the painful one is a real problem. I want to make sure a) I'm doing the best I can to be gentle with the painful toe, and b) there's nothing else I can do to make this better for him.
Claw clipping hardware: I'm pretty sure a guillotine-style clipper would not be good here. Having his claw caught in a little circle means that if he struggles to get away, he's likely to hurt that toe more. I'll probably try to get some very sharp/new clippers, but are there other types of clippers? Dog clippers
I'm getting mixed messages about whether human-style nail clippers are a good idea. I'm tempted to try those because it seems the nail would be less likely to move while being cut, and if he tries to jerk it away the human clipper design is less likely to grab the nail so he'd hurt himself.
Burrito-ing him won't help much, but I did find the enhanced technique that covers his head; I'm looking forward to trying that. Looking forward is too strong; maybe "proceeding with a shred more hope."
Are there other ideas out there? Ways to hold the toe in position without twisting it or applying a lot of force?
Does anyone know whether a mild sedative would be dangerous for an older cat with kidney issues?
He's fine getting pilled, or even getting B-12 and Solensia injections, and loves being groomed otherwise.
This claw trimming thing is something else. He's bitten vets/techs and threatens to bite me each time.
Claw clipping hardware: I'm pretty sure a guillotine-style clipper would not be good here. Having his claw caught in a little circle means that if he struggles to get away, he's likely to hurt that toe more. I'll probably try to get some very sharp/new clippers, but are there other types of clippers? Dog clippers
I'm getting mixed messages about whether human-style nail clippers are a good idea. I'm tempted to try those because it seems the nail would be less likely to move while being cut, and if he tries to jerk it away the human clipper design is less likely to grab the nail so he'd hurt himself.
Burrito-ing him won't help much, but I did find the enhanced technique that covers his head; I'm looking forward to trying that. Looking forward is too strong; maybe "proceeding with a shred more hope."
Are there other ideas out there? Ways to hold the toe in position without twisting it or applying a lot of force?
Does anyone know whether a mild sedative would be dangerous for an older cat with kidney issues?
He's fine getting pilled, or even getting B-12 and Solensia injections, and loves being groomed otherwise.
This claw trimming thing is something else. He's bitten vets/techs and threatens to bite me each time.
Response by poster: I've seen that assertion - that the nails don't cut cleanly with that kind of clipper - but I also saw an emergency vet clinic (chain)'s web site say that it was fine. I know how the human clippers work, but I don't really understand how it could do that kind of damage -- and I'm getting conflicting information from different parts of the Internet.
Was there some kind of study? How do we know that it' actually does damage cat claws that way?
I ask because my big worry right now is how to avoid further traumatizing whatever injury is in his painful toe, and guillotine-style clippers seem like a great way for a cat to dislocate his toe if he jerks the paw back before the trim happens...
posted by amtho at 9:08 PM on June 16, 2024
Was there some kind of study? How do we know that it' actually does damage cat claws that way?
I ask because my big worry right now is how to avoid further traumatizing whatever injury is in his painful toe, and guillotine-style clippers seem like a great way for a cat to dislocate his toe if he jerks the paw back before the trim happens...
posted by amtho at 9:08 PM on June 16, 2024
I do use my sharp human clippers on my cats but they don''t fight me that much. They seem to make clean cuts. Whatever you choose getting clippers that are really sharp may help.
Which toe bothers your cat? Can you get a helper for working on that one specifically so you can have both hands to work with? I'd try to hold the whole paw and touch the toe itself as little as possible.
posted by oneear at 9:13 PM on June 16, 2024
Which toe bothers your cat? Can you get a helper for working on that one specifically so you can have both hands to work with? I'd try to hold the whole paw and touch the toe itself as little as possible.
posted by oneear at 9:13 PM on June 16, 2024
Okay, why are you continuing to trim his claws, then? Why not get a bunch of different kinds of scratchers -- vertical, horizontal, cardboard or sisal or carpet, etc. -- and just letting him deal with his nails himself?
I'm writing this as a cat owner over the lsat several decades. I've had a grand total of 1 cat who needed claw assistance, because he didn't use any kinds of scratchers and was quite elderly, and thus his sedentary lifestyle meant his claws would grow so long they'd interfere with his walking. Every other cat I've had has always done a fine job of dealing with their own claws.
posted by BlahLaLa at 9:18 PM on June 16, 2024 [4 favorites]
I'm writing this as a cat owner over the lsat several decades. I've had a grand total of 1 cat who needed claw assistance, because he didn't use any kinds of scratchers and was quite elderly, and thus his sedentary lifestyle meant his claws would grow so long they'd interfere with his walking. Every other cat I've had has always done a fine job of dealing with their own claws.
posted by BlahLaLa at 9:18 PM on June 16, 2024 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: I've never had this much trouble with cat claw trimming, honestly, despite dealing with a number of cats -- but never one this old. He has two big cat towers to scratch, but apparently some cats become less inclined to do this as they age, and he's now 15.
posted by amtho at 9:27 PM on June 16, 2024
posted by amtho at 9:27 PM on June 16, 2024
Some cats seem to have claws that shed more easily than others, and also claws that stay naturally a bit shorter and thus are entirely covered by paw when the cat is relaxed. Other cats seem to have claws that are longer and get stuck on everything when they simply walk around, and they don’t shed as cleanly sometimes leading to pain and also are harder to keep clean. It all kind of depends on the cat, even before you get into mobility and ability to groom themselves and what surfaces they have for scratching and all that. So I would first pay attention to Jonathan’s specific claws and see what actually needs to be done by you, and provide the least possible intervention.
If he is otherwise lovely and smart about using a soft paw when touching people, it should be okay for him to have sharp, freshly shed nails. Provide lots of different surfaces for him to really dig in there himself - corrugated cardboard is great because cats can puncture a good depth to help the base of the claw sheath get pulled away, and harder surfaces can help dull the points - and just trim his dewclaws when they are visibly too long.
If he definitely needs his nails trimmed regularly for health reasons, like they impinge on his mobility as an older cat, they are infected, he is aggressive and you need to keep him from drawing blood… then there are some options at different levels of escalation.
The most extreme would be to have him be sedated for a nail trim. The upshot of this is that a vet tech can get them super short, right up to the quick, so they take a lot longer to fully grow back. If he has an infected toe this might be the best choice for that area so it can be fully investigated and possibly lanced if it’s an abscess or otherwise treated. If he needs other treatments under sedation, like teeth cleaning or extraction, be sure to ask for nails to be trimmed at the same time.
Definitely ask your vet about sedating medication and their interactions with his health conditions. There is likely to be something he can tolerate. Especially with senior cats, sometimes it’s a matter of a drug having a conflicting risk but being worth it to retain quality of life.
You can try a happy hoodie, which often bamboozles cats into malleability. A happy hoodie is basically a leg warmer for a pet’s head, it goes over the ears and looks hilarious. But the firm even pressure seems to be an off switch for a lot of cats and dogs. A happy hoodie combined with the burrito technique sounds both hilarious and like it might help.
Finally, for my cat who is fussy about his claws being touched, I approach him when he is sleeping. I can usually get one or two claws trimmed that way, so I have a couple small clippers stashed nearby his favorite napping spots. If I can poke his paw when he is asleep and he only twitches, I know I can go in for a snip. I used to refuse to do this because I was projecting my feelings onto him - how would I like it if I was having a nice dream and I woke up to my local giant giving me a pedicure?? - but cats sleep differently and the lack of tension leading up to the nail trim event is so much better.
If Jonathan is having problems with his mobility that lead to bad claw hygiene, also talk to your vet about joint supplements and provide lots of heated spots for napping to keep him limber so he can help himself a bit more.
posted by Mizu at 9:45 PM on June 16, 2024 [7 favorites]
If he is otherwise lovely and smart about using a soft paw when touching people, it should be okay for him to have sharp, freshly shed nails. Provide lots of different surfaces for him to really dig in there himself - corrugated cardboard is great because cats can puncture a good depth to help the base of the claw sheath get pulled away, and harder surfaces can help dull the points - and just trim his dewclaws when they are visibly too long.
If he definitely needs his nails trimmed regularly for health reasons, like they impinge on his mobility as an older cat, they are infected, he is aggressive and you need to keep him from drawing blood… then there are some options at different levels of escalation.
The most extreme would be to have him be sedated for a nail trim. The upshot of this is that a vet tech can get them super short, right up to the quick, so they take a lot longer to fully grow back. If he has an infected toe this might be the best choice for that area so it can be fully investigated and possibly lanced if it’s an abscess or otherwise treated. If he needs other treatments under sedation, like teeth cleaning or extraction, be sure to ask for nails to be trimmed at the same time.
Definitely ask your vet about sedating medication and their interactions with his health conditions. There is likely to be something he can tolerate. Especially with senior cats, sometimes it’s a matter of a drug having a conflicting risk but being worth it to retain quality of life.
You can try a happy hoodie, which often bamboozles cats into malleability. A happy hoodie is basically a leg warmer for a pet’s head, it goes over the ears and looks hilarious. But the firm even pressure seems to be an off switch for a lot of cats and dogs. A happy hoodie combined with the burrito technique sounds both hilarious and like it might help.
Finally, for my cat who is fussy about his claws being touched, I approach him when he is sleeping. I can usually get one or two claws trimmed that way, so I have a couple small clippers stashed nearby his favorite napping spots. If I can poke his paw when he is asleep and he only twitches, I know I can go in for a snip. I used to refuse to do this because I was projecting my feelings onto him - how would I like it if I was having a nice dream and I woke up to my local giant giving me a pedicure?? - but cats sleep differently and the lack of tension leading up to the nail trim event is so much better.
If Jonathan is having problems with his mobility that lead to bad claw hygiene, also talk to your vet about joint supplements and provide lots of heated spots for napping to keep him limber so he can help himself a bit more.
posted by Mizu at 9:45 PM on June 16, 2024 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you so much for that, Mizu. I hadn't heard of the happy hoodie; I think you've possibly changed my life.
Oh yeah, he definitely needs his claws trimmed. We had an ingrown claw a while ago - caught it before it became infected, but still. Then he had a split claw or something on Friday. He gets stuck on blankets etc. frequently. It's a thing.
BUT: I know this isn't a chat thread, but: about 12 minutes ago I learned someone had submitted an application to adopt him. It's not a done deal at all - it's not clear that it will be a good match - but this is HUGE, you guys!
She's older. He's a big cat who wants to be held a lot. It could be perfect if she's OK lifting him and can handle his idosyncrasies. We'll see.
posted by amtho at 10:30 PM on June 16, 2024 [9 favorites]
Oh yeah, he definitely needs his claws trimmed. We had an ingrown claw a while ago - caught it before it became infected, but still. Then he had a split claw or something on Friday. He gets stuck on blankets etc. frequently. It's a thing.
BUT: I know this isn't a chat thread, but: about 12 minutes ago I learned someone had submitted an application to adopt him. It's not a done deal at all - it's not clear that it will be a good match - but this is HUGE, you guys!
She's older. He's a big cat who wants to be held a lot. It could be perfect if she's OK lifting him and can handle his idosyncrasies. We'll see.
posted by amtho at 10:30 PM on June 16, 2024 [9 favorites]
are there other types of clippers?
Don't know if it's a type you've already tried, but the scissor form of cat trimmers (looking like this, not that product specifically) are what I use. And for the difficult cat it helps that with these you can come in quickly from the side, from any side, instead of needing to line up an approach on the claw from the end.
We also get a claw or two at a time when he's sleeping, as Mizu describes. And not every one of his claws needs to get done.
posted by away for regrooving at 11:38 PM on June 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
Don't know if it's a type you've already tried, but the scissor form of cat trimmers (looking like this, not that product specifically) are what I use. And for the difficult cat it helps that with these you can come in quickly from the side, from any side, instead of needing to line up an approach on the claw from the end.
We also get a claw or two at a time when he's sleeping, as Mizu describes. And not every one of his claws needs to get done.
posted by away for regrooving at 11:38 PM on June 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
Do I have to give a claw-clipping related answer to say OMG what a cute kitty!!! I hope the adoption works out and he gets all the snuggles he needs. ❤️
(Try clicker training him? Bonus: attention!)
posted by ClarissaWAM at 3:30 AM on June 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
(Try clicker training him? Bonus: attention!)
posted by ClarissaWAM at 3:30 AM on June 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Alas, Clarissa, we did a little clicker training, but his IBS means that treats are problematic :( He really, really loves being brushed, though, so maybe I can try again.
He's a good cat if you want to be loved. Otherwise, he's just warm and funny.
posted by amtho at 3:56 AM on June 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
He's a good cat if you want to be loved. Otherwise, he's just warm and funny.
posted by amtho at 3:56 AM on June 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
I also use the scissor type of clippers. Since he likes being held, I wonder if something like putting him in a front facing baby carrier or sling while you do it would help him stay calm? Seems crazy to me as someone with zero cats who like being held, but it might work.
My technique for the front claws (which always seem to get longer and sharper) is to kneel over the cat with him between my legs, gently putting pressure on and around him with my butt and legs. You have to cross your legs at your ankles so he can't back out, too. Then I reach in front of him to pull a leg out and quickly clip with the scissor type of clippers.
Lots of Churu before and after helps.
posted by misskaz at 4:20 AM on June 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
My technique for the front claws (which always seem to get longer and sharper) is to kneel over the cat with him between my legs, gently putting pressure on and around him with my butt and legs. You have to cross your legs at your ankles so he can't back out, too. Then I reach in front of him to pull a leg out and quickly clip with the scissor type of clippers.
Lots of Churu before and after helps.
posted by misskaz at 4:20 AM on June 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
I use the Jackson Galaxy technique: wait until the cat is asleep or resting, find a claw you can snip as unobtrusively as possible (without moving the cat), get in and out of there as fast as possible without the cat even realizing you're trying to clip a claw, then give a treat.
Hildy still doesn't like getting her nails trimmed but I've worked my way up to being able to do a whole paw at a time without any protestations.
Some people have success using a nail grinder rather than a clipper. (I have not tried this myself)
posted by Jeanne at 4:27 AM on June 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
Hildy still doesn't like getting her nails trimmed but I've worked my way up to being able to do a whole paw at a time without any protestations.
Some people have success using a nail grinder rather than a clipper. (I have not tried this myself)
posted by Jeanne at 4:27 AM on June 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
We use human nail clippers on our cats and have since they were kittens (they are now double digits). No issues. Beautiful kitty!
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:46 AM on June 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:46 AM on June 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
Have you ever tried doing it while he is asleep? Like, deep, deep asleep in a super relaxed state? That turned out to be the simplest way to trim claws for my current very sensory sensitive, all-fight-no-flight kitty. I don't think you could get away with trimming the one that hurts without waking him but you might be able to some or all of the other claws.
posted by BlueJae at 6:21 AM on June 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by BlueJae at 6:21 AM on June 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
Sounds like you want spring-loaded plier-style clippers? They immediately spring open, so nails can't get caught.
But apart from that, if that one toe is so painful, get it looked at. There's a chance he's dealing with a deeper infection or even something like a fracture.
posted by toucan at 9:20 AM on June 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
But apart from that, if that one toe is so painful, get it looked at. There's a chance he's dealing with a deeper infection or even something like a fracture.
posted by toucan at 9:20 AM on June 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I'm pretty sure it's a fracture; I requested expensive X-rays during his recent dental procedure, but they x-rayed everything _but_ his feet. argh. I'm pretty sure it's not an infection. It's been this way for two years.
posted by amtho at 9:43 AM on June 17, 2024
posted by amtho at 9:43 AM on June 17, 2024
Clippers do make a difference & the extra sharp thin blade japanese style (these Necoichi or similar) make very clean quick cuts. Makes the work a little easier for our squirmy cats. I haven't had an issue with the nail getting stuck mid-squirm but we do aim for the end part of the nail so there isn't a lot to snag.
posted by countrymod at 2:44 PM on June 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by countrymod at 2:44 PM on June 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
Could nail caps/claw sheaths be an option, on the one problem paw, at least?
Having read Jonathan Cat's harrowing story, I have to ask... is there any way you could take him in permanently, rather than just fostering him? He's been through such traumatic things already, he's an old feller now and he seems very, very bonded to you. I understand he could be a real handful and you're already doing him a tremendous kindness by taking him in, even on a temporary basis... but he probably doesn't have many years left and he obviously adores you. I'm absolutely not judging here, but it pains me to think of him having to start over again at this point, with a new house and a new person.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:03 PM on June 17, 2024
Having read Jonathan Cat's harrowing story, I have to ask... is there any way you could take him in permanently, rather than just fostering him? He's been through such traumatic things already, he's an old feller now and he seems very, very bonded to you. I understand he could be a real handful and you're already doing him a tremendous kindness by taking him in, even on a temporary basis... but he probably doesn't have many years left and he obviously adores you. I'm absolutely not judging here, but it pains me to think of him having to start over again at this point, with a new house and a new person.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:03 PM on June 17, 2024
I use human clippers on cats all the time. I use them sideways though- in other words, not like you would if you were clipping your own nails, but so the tip of the cat's claw fits in nicely.
There are also Soft Paws- maybe just for the injured toe?
posted by oneirodynia at 3:58 PM on June 17, 2024
There are also Soft Paws- maybe just for the injured toe?
posted by oneirodynia at 3:58 PM on June 17, 2024
Response by poster: Awww Ursula H, I wonder about that too, but I really think he can do better than the living situation he's in with me. This may be a bit of a derail for an AskMe, but I think you deserve some details, and maybe others are curious too.
(The adoption applicant was a no-go; she's 86 and realized he wasn't a fit when I said he needs a pill every day - she's not comfortable doing that.)
I actually fostered him as a kitten in 2009 (it sounds like you know that), and in truth I felt horribly guilty immediately after dropping him off at his first adoptive home. I'd just seen him swat his brother for the first time ever - clearly something was up - but he had two teenagers to play with him and a very nice, loving space for a number of years until something made his adopter have to surrender him.
So, I think about that a lot, and what happened to him after that, and I feel fiercely protective of him -- more than my other foster cats.
Unfortunately my life has been rather tumultuous, and may soon become more tumultuous. There's a good argument that I don't have any business fostering a cat right now, but he needed me - still, I'm not sure where I'll be in a month, and he needs stability and comfort. The poor guy gets actually ill if he isn't fed early enough in the morning, or if the bed isn't made; he'll hunt and eat bugs if he's hungry enough, and he needs that safe clear bed surface to feel safe sleeping all day.
There was no couch when he arrived, since they seem to all give me headaches. Then I built one, and he was instantly on it and happier. But I'm working upstairs away from the couch, in the bedroom, with the headboard blocking his view of the desk - it's not great. Right now he's laying on the hard desk in front of the monitor.
On top of that, I'm really in a ridiculously stressful uncertain life period right now - I might have to move, but I really need to stay (I need stability even more than he does), but that whole life mess is a big chunk of time, stress, and attention, and I'm not the sweet relaxed person he needs. Sometimes, I'm really not on top of all his medications.
And then, of course, the nail thing. The vomiting if he's not fed early enough. There's a barfy bedspread and a barfy mattress cover (new) I discovered today, waiting for me... I got some meds to stimulate his appetite, but I think he overate yesterday.
I'm hoping the perfect person (preferably larger than me) adopts him, holds him all the time, has adorable conversations with him, and insists on taking him to the local vet school to get his foot really really examined.
There is hope he can bond with someone else:
I've seen him settle down on my sweet neighbor's chest, while she was lying on the "scouch" I made [storage couch], so I have some hope he can bond with someone else.
Also - I did go camping with a friend for a couple of nights; a professional cat sitter came and played with him and cuddled him, and he was in _great_ spirits when I came back.
With the right person, in the right situation, I think he could be much happier. I "know psychology" and can read him, but I'm not really on his wavelength in some ways. His person is out there, I think.
Wow could I use help finding them, though. I'm overwhelmed... I did just put up a new description on his adoption page: https://animalrescue.net/detail/?id=62691780
Of course his happiness is paramount, and I can see how he feels when he meets new people.
Honestly, though, I am not in the right place in my life - if someone wants to start a GoFundMe and/or co-adopt him with me, I'd consider it.
posted by amtho at 5:37 PM on June 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
(The adoption applicant was a no-go; she's 86 and realized he wasn't a fit when I said he needs a pill every day - she's not comfortable doing that.)
I actually fostered him as a kitten in 2009 (it sounds like you know that), and in truth I felt horribly guilty immediately after dropping him off at his first adoptive home. I'd just seen him swat his brother for the first time ever - clearly something was up - but he had two teenagers to play with him and a very nice, loving space for a number of years until something made his adopter have to surrender him.
So, I think about that a lot, and what happened to him after that, and I feel fiercely protective of him -- more than my other foster cats.
Unfortunately my life has been rather tumultuous, and may soon become more tumultuous. There's a good argument that I don't have any business fostering a cat right now, but he needed me - still, I'm not sure where I'll be in a month, and he needs stability and comfort. The poor guy gets actually ill if he isn't fed early enough in the morning, or if the bed isn't made; he'll hunt and eat bugs if he's hungry enough, and he needs that safe clear bed surface to feel safe sleeping all day.
There was no couch when he arrived, since they seem to all give me headaches. Then I built one, and he was instantly on it and happier. But I'm working upstairs away from the couch, in the bedroom, with the headboard blocking his view of the desk - it's not great. Right now he's laying on the hard desk in front of the monitor.
On top of that, I'm really in a ridiculously stressful uncertain life period right now - I might have to move, but I really need to stay (I need stability even more than he does), but that whole life mess is a big chunk of time, stress, and attention, and I'm not the sweet relaxed person he needs. Sometimes, I'm really not on top of all his medications.
And then, of course, the nail thing. The vomiting if he's not fed early enough. There's a barfy bedspread and a barfy mattress cover (new) I discovered today, waiting for me... I got some meds to stimulate his appetite, but I think he overate yesterday.
I'm hoping the perfect person (preferably larger than me) adopts him, holds him all the time, has adorable conversations with him, and insists on taking him to the local vet school to get his foot really really examined.
There is hope he can bond with someone else:
I've seen him settle down on my sweet neighbor's chest, while she was lying on the "scouch" I made [storage couch], so I have some hope he can bond with someone else.
Also - I did go camping with a friend for a couple of nights; a professional cat sitter came and played with him and cuddled him, and he was in _great_ spirits when I came back.
With the right person, in the right situation, I think he could be much happier. I "know psychology" and can read him, but I'm not really on his wavelength in some ways. His person is out there, I think.
Wow could I use help finding them, though. I'm overwhelmed... I did just put up a new description on his adoption page: https://animalrescue.net/detail/?id=62691780
Of course his happiness is paramount, and I can see how he feels when he meets new people.
Honestly, though, I am not in the right place in my life - if someone wants to start a GoFundMe and/or co-adopt him with me, I'd consider it.
posted by amtho at 5:37 PM on June 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
I can relate, believe me. One of the reasons why I don't have a cat right now is because my own life is such a stressful mess. I hope you and Jonathan both land on your feet soon!
posted by Ursula Hitler at 10:43 PM on June 17, 2024
posted by Ursula Hitler at 10:43 PM on June 17, 2024
i have used many nail clippers on cats. people ones. dog ones. guillotine ones. the dremel type thing. and more. these are what are amazing: https://www.chewy.com/necoichi-purrcision-cat-nail-clippers/dp/210190
my cats are a 2 people job, but these are so sharp they work great.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 12:36 PM on June 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
my cats are a 2 people job, but these are so sharp they work great.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 12:36 PM on June 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
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posted by JoeZydeco at 8:56 PM on June 16, 2024 [1 favorite]