How to express "I don't want to spend THAT much time with you"?
June 13, 2024 6:37 AM Subscribe
I've started a friendship with a couple - they are both retired; I am not. We've made dinner dates a few times, and every time she subsequently asks me to come over an hour in advance for a glass of wine and then go in one car. There are reasons I don't want to do that (see below) but largely because it turns a 2-hour evening investment into a 4-hour evening investment, once I factor in all the driving time. To date, I've made one-off excuses: is there a gentle way to address this as a blanket "can't do that?"
The other factor: he is lovely, she is generally intelligent and pleasant, but if we're together for more than an hour or so, she tends to share lengthy monologues on topics that we don't have in common , or lengthy This Is What's Wrong With The World Outrage treatises which I can't do right now. (I'm physically helping manage a family members deteriorating medical situation - I've had to step away from following world events to keep any hope of emotional equilibrium and so I can continue to show up to work and familial assistance - this has been communicated). It's a new friendship and I'm happy to invest small, measured amounts of time to see if we can forge a friendship on shared interests, or under what circumstances (e.g., going hiking together = yes; dinner = no?)
The other factor: he is lovely, she is generally intelligent and pleasant, but if we're together for more than an hour or so, she tends to share lengthy monologues on topics that we don't have in common , or lengthy This Is What's Wrong With The World Outrage treatises which I can't do right now. (I'm physically helping manage a family members deteriorating medical situation - I've had to step away from following world events to keep any hope of emotional equilibrium and so I can continue to show up to work and familial assistance - this has been communicated). It's a new friendship and I'm happy to invest small, measured amounts of time to see if we can forge a friendship on shared interests, or under what circumstances (e.g., going hiking together = yes; dinner = no?)
I think you can easily say you’re busy until X time so you can’t drop by early for wine.
Or you’re coming in from an appointment and have to meet at the restaurant.
Or you’ve got chores to do first and can’t get there until xxx time.
posted by calgirl at 6:49 AM on June 13, 2024 [7 favorites]
Or you’re coming in from an appointment and have to meet at the restaurant.
Or you’ve got chores to do first and can’t get there until xxx time.
posted by calgirl at 6:49 AM on June 13, 2024 [7 favorites]
If I were you I would say “no” to every invitation that isn’t explicitly going to bring me joy. Full stop.
And then invite one or both of them to SPECIFIC things that I would do anyway, only if I believe I would truly enjoy it regardless and that they will be nice company too.
Ex 1 - “Sorry can’t come for dinner that night. Sounds lovely, enjoy!”
Ex 2 - “I’m going to take a nice hike on Thursday at 2 - 4 pm at Spencer Crest. Would either of you like to meet me there?”
Rinse and repeat.
posted by seemoorglass at 6:52 AM on June 13, 2024 [7 favorites]
And then invite one or both of them to SPECIFIC things that I would do anyway, only if I believe I would truly enjoy it regardless and that they will be nice company too.
Ex 1 - “Sorry can’t come for dinner that night. Sounds lovely, enjoy!”
Ex 2 - “I’m going to take a nice hike on Thursday at 2 - 4 pm at Spencer Crest. Would either of you like to meet me there?”
Rinse and repeat.
posted by seemoorglass at 6:52 AM on June 13, 2024 [7 favorites]
Quick text that says "Will be moving a little slow today/that day but will meet you at the restaurant - looking forward!!"
That said it sounds like you find these people insufferable so I'd just minimize hanging out with them or keep them at arms length. Like, why do you think they would hold off on annoying lengthy exhausting monologues on a hike but not at dinner?
posted by windbox at 6:53 AM on June 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
That said it sounds like you find these people insufferable so I'd just minimize hanging out with them or keep them at arms length. Like, why do you think they would hold off on annoying lengthy exhausting monologues on a hike but not at dinner?
posted by windbox at 6:53 AM on June 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
Who is driving that one car? She is maybe looking for a designated driver. She may stop pushing back on the glass of wine before supper if you offer to pick her up so you can "talk in the car".
If she is doing the driving, tell her that you have to take your own car so you can be instantly responsive due to your family members on-going health crisis.
Tell her time pressures mean you can't do four hour dinner engagements, and you hate it and you wish you could - but you need to limit the amount of time, what with work and family. Ask if there is any way you can keep having those dinner dates without the cocktail hour beforehand, and would you be able to continue having them with her even if you just show up at the restaurant. And then ask if since you'll be missing being able to drink wine with her, could she find time to join you doing some exercise - like when you stroll in the park.
You can also say that you need to cut back drinking, as why you won't meet for wine at her place, but if so offer an excuse like "it seems to be triggering hot flashes" or "it's give me heartburn" and when the wine is brought to the table at the restaurant say something like "Finally! Ah, it's good to have it at last." There is a not insubstantial chance that she is a social drinker and needs to have people around to drink, and part of why she is monologuing and doing an anxiety dump is because she is feeling the wine enough to be uninhibited. In that case she may drop you because she needs to have people who will drink with her and is not interested in spending time with you unlubricated.
Drinking is a very cultural practice and declining the glass of wine and chit chat before dinner may signal that you are the wrong kind of person to be friends with, the same as having gone to the wrong school and thus changing the subject when ever Our Years in Prep School comes up, or using the wrong fish fork. She may need someone to participate in her culture with - and if so, it may be impossible for you to be friends with her.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:56 AM on June 13, 2024 [4 favorites]
If she is doing the driving, tell her that you have to take your own car so you can be instantly responsive due to your family members on-going health crisis.
Tell her time pressures mean you can't do four hour dinner engagements, and you hate it and you wish you could - but you need to limit the amount of time, what with work and family. Ask if there is any way you can keep having those dinner dates without the cocktail hour beforehand, and would you be able to continue having them with her even if you just show up at the restaurant. And then ask if since you'll be missing being able to drink wine with her, could she find time to join you doing some exercise - like when you stroll in the park.
You can also say that you need to cut back drinking, as why you won't meet for wine at her place, but if so offer an excuse like "it seems to be triggering hot flashes" or "it's give me heartburn" and when the wine is brought to the table at the restaurant say something like "Finally! Ah, it's good to have it at last." There is a not insubstantial chance that she is a social drinker and needs to have people around to drink, and part of why she is monologuing and doing an anxiety dump is because she is feeling the wine enough to be uninhibited. In that case she may drop you because she needs to have people who will drink with her and is not interested in spending time with you unlubricated.
Drinking is a very cultural practice and declining the glass of wine and chit chat before dinner may signal that you are the wrong kind of person to be friends with, the same as having gone to the wrong school and thus changing the subject when ever Our Years in Prep School comes up, or using the wrong fish fork. She may need someone to participate in her culture with - and if so, it may be impossible for you to be friends with her.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:56 AM on June 13, 2024 [4 favorites]
Best answer: 'With my family situation, it's easier for me if I meet you at the restaurant and have my own car.'
'With my family situation, I don't often have time for long leisurely dinners. What about going for a hike? We can chat and get some steps in!'
'With my family situation, I need to be able to drop what I'm doing and go. What about something more casual like a walk in the park rather than a sit-down dinner?'
posted by jacquilynne at 7:15 AM on June 13, 2024 [29 favorites]
'With my family situation, I don't often have time for long leisurely dinners. What about going for a hike? We can chat and get some steps in!'
'With my family situation, I need to be able to drop what I'm doing and go. What about something more casual like a walk in the park rather than a sit-down dinner?'
posted by jacquilynne at 7:15 AM on June 13, 2024 [29 favorites]
Mod note: Apologies for the accidental double-paste in the extended explanation.
Post edited to removed double-paste.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:23 AM on June 13, 2024 [3 favorites]
Post edited to removed double-paste.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:23 AM on June 13, 2024 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I think one off excuses are actually what you should stick with! Its always easiest and most effective to be direct and honest - so when she asks you to come by early, just explain that you aren't able to do so because of work/other obligations/driving time/etc.
posted by RajahKing at 7:40 AM on June 13, 2024 [8 favorites]
posted by RajahKing at 7:40 AM on June 13, 2024 [8 favorites]
If you want a more blanket rationale to present to the couple, you could talk about how you feel the next day after an extended evening drinking and socializing with them. Something along the lines of:
"I think I need to be more careful about wearing myself out too much with our fun dinner dates! I don't know where you get the stamina, but I think I can only handle the dinner portion because of [work, family, stress, etc.]"
posted by yellowcandy at 7:54 AM on June 13, 2024 [4 favorites]
"I think I need to be more careful about wearing myself out too much with our fun dinner dates! I don't know where you get the stamina, but I think I can only handle the dinner portion because of [work, family, stress, etc.]"
posted by yellowcandy at 7:54 AM on June 13, 2024 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I have used "sorry, I only have an X-hour window because of work, but I look forward to seeing you there!"
posted by Lyn Never at 8:41 AM on June 13, 2024 [11 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 8:41 AM on June 13, 2024 [11 favorites]
How about:
"I got a lot going on with family right now, and not really in the headspace to hang out. I'm going to have to decline on this, but I'm happy to hang out [once a week, or whatever you feel like you want]. Not really up for dinner, but I'm happy to do a hike?"
State what you want. You don't need to be chirpy or casual when you say this. You can be honest.
posted by moiraine at 8:46 AM on June 13, 2024
"I got a lot going on with family right now, and not really in the headspace to hang out. I'm going to have to decline on this, but I'm happy to hang out [once a week, or whatever you feel like you want]. Not really up for dinner, but I'm happy to do a hike?"
State what you want. You don't need to be chirpy or casual when you say this. You can be honest.
posted by moiraine at 8:46 AM on June 13, 2024
Best answer: I doubt whether a blanket explanation is going to do what you want it to do; you're more likely to offend or hurt their feelings. (I'm assuming from the fact that you wrote this Ask that they are not the kind of people who would prefer blunt honesty, or that you're not close enough yet to feel comfortable with blunt honesty.) Definitely invite them to time limited activities you think they might enjoy. It will be much easier for you to set the parameters of engagement if you take the initiative in planning.
If they only want to make dinner plans, it is absolutely polite and reasonable to negotiate plans to meet your needs as well. If your drive is significant, if your schedule is uncertain, if you need some down time--all those things are fine and normal. If you're ok to have dinner, but want to skip the cocktail hour and carpool, decline the cocktail hour.
"I'd love to meet for dinner, but I'm booked until 4 and I'll need time to decompress and get ready, let's just meet at the restaurant, does 5:30 work for you?"
"Oh, traffic is so bad at that time, I'd hate to get caught up and make us all late, how about we just meet there?"
"Thanks for the offer of cocktails, I can't do it this time, but I'm looking forward to seeing you at dinner!"
The right tone is a sort of chipper shrug, like "Whattaya gonna do? Life, huh?" They might pick up the hint and stop asking or they might not, but if they start really pressuring you or trying to guilt you, then the question of whether you'd like to get closer to them answers itself.
(As an aside, for monologues, it's perfectly polite to listen for a few minutes and then change the subject.)
posted by radiogreentea at 8:46 AM on June 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
If they only want to make dinner plans, it is absolutely polite and reasonable to negotiate plans to meet your needs as well. If your drive is significant, if your schedule is uncertain, if you need some down time--all those things are fine and normal. If you're ok to have dinner, but want to skip the cocktail hour and carpool, decline the cocktail hour.
"I'd love to meet for dinner, but I'm booked until 4 and I'll need time to decompress and get ready, let's just meet at the restaurant, does 5:30 work for you?"
"Oh, traffic is so bad at that time, I'd hate to get caught up and make us all late, how about we just meet there?"
"Thanks for the offer of cocktails, I can't do it this time, but I'm looking forward to seeing you at dinner!"
The right tone is a sort of chipper shrug, like "Whattaya gonna do? Life, huh?" They might pick up the hint and stop asking or they might not, but if they start really pressuring you or trying to guilt you, then the question of whether you'd like to get closer to them answers itself.
(As an aside, for monologues, it's perfectly polite to listen for a few minutes and then change the subject.)
posted by radiogreentea at 8:46 AM on June 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
"My social battery is so low these days, don't be offended but I really will have to say no more than I want. I enjoy our time so much I don't want you to stop asking but please don't feel bad if I just can't do it."
posted by ReluctantViking at 8:54 AM on June 13, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by ReluctantViking at 8:54 AM on June 13, 2024 [3 favorites]
Are you sure you enjoy hanging out with them? Whether you do or not, it's definitely ok to fall back for a bit if you're overwhelmed! You can just say "Things are really busy with some family stuff so my social battery is low and I'm a bit in hermit mode to recharge - sorry to miss it, and thanks for understanding! Looking forward to hanging out more when things settle down again!"
It's also ok to just say no to stuff you don't want to do, and set your exact boundaries so they know what to expect. Work is a good excuse, as in, "Things at work are so busy, I can't meet til 8 and I'm gonna leave at 10, aiming to get home by 10:15 since I start early in the morning! Excited to see you and stuff our faces with lasagna!"
If you want to see them less in general, the formula is "Thanks + brief excuse + have fun!" as in, "Thanks so much for the invite! I'm slammed at work so I can't make it, but have fun!"
If you do want to keep seeing them, use the same formula but add in anticipation of the next hangout: "Thanks + brief excuse + have fun + see you next time!" as in, "Thanks for the dinner invite, sounds awesome. I've been under the weather so I'll bow out of this one... but have a blast! And I'm looking forward to seeing you in July / We have to get together and see that movie / I'll see you when I'm feeling better / Looking forward to the concert next week / etc!"
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:05 AM on June 13, 2024
It's also ok to just say no to stuff you don't want to do, and set your exact boundaries so they know what to expect. Work is a good excuse, as in, "Things at work are so busy, I can't meet til 8 and I'm gonna leave at 10, aiming to get home by 10:15 since I start early in the morning! Excited to see you and stuff our faces with lasagna!"
If you want to see them less in general, the formula is "Thanks + brief excuse + have fun!" as in, "Thanks so much for the invite! I'm slammed at work so I can't make it, but have fun!"
If you do want to keep seeing them, use the same formula but add in anticipation of the next hangout: "Thanks + brief excuse + have fun + see you next time!" as in, "Thanks for the dinner invite, sounds awesome. I've been under the weather so I'll bow out of this one... but have a blast! And I'm looking forward to seeing you in July / We have to get together and see that movie / I'll see you when I'm feeling better / Looking forward to the concert next week / etc!"
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:05 AM on June 13, 2024
My take on this is a little different, and relies heavily on my almost complete lack of care in re. whether anyone else thinks I'm a weird malcontent.
Don't explain, don't give reasons. A reason just provides the other party with a negotiation point.
"Oh no thanks, I'll be driving myself this time."
"Sounds great, I'll meet you at the restaurant."
"Ok it's late, I need to be heading out."
Period.
If I feel in control and relaxed about the things that stress me out, then I can be more myself during the event. Maybe someone else thinks I'm weird or a bit rude on the edges. Fine.
The alternative is I am cranky the whole time, but faking polite. I know which interaction feels more authentic to me. And I also know that I prefer to come into my friendships and social situations as authentically as possible.
posted by phunniemee at 9:10 AM on June 13, 2024 [30 favorites]
Don't explain, don't give reasons. A reason just provides the other party with a negotiation point.
"Oh no thanks, I'll be driving myself this time."
"Sounds great, I'll meet you at the restaurant."
"Ok it's late, I need to be heading out."
Period.
If I feel in control and relaxed about the things that stress me out, then I can be more myself during the event. Maybe someone else thinks I'm weird or a bit rude on the edges. Fine.
The alternative is I am cranky the whole time, but faking polite. I know which interaction feels more authentic to me. And I also know that I prefer to come into my friendships and social situations as authentically as possible.
posted by phunniemee at 9:10 AM on June 13, 2024 [30 favorites]
Best answer: I don't think there is a polite way to do a blanket refusal - so I agree with people suggesting you just keep doing the one-off refusals "Sorry, I don't have time for a pre-dinner drink, but I look forward to seeing you at the restaurant!" If they don't get the hint eventually, well, consider that useful information to know about them.
posted by coffeecat at 9:28 AM on June 13, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 9:28 AM on June 13, 2024 [2 favorites]
Yeah you really, really don't need a reason to want to keep your time to yourself. I promise you, you don't.
You don't need a blanket phrase that will convey everything you want it to convey. I don't think there is one. Just take each offer as it comes and respond based on how you're feeling, how much time you have, and how much time you want to invest.
posted by cooker girl at 9:29 AM on June 13, 2024 [4 favorites]
You don't need a blanket phrase that will convey everything you want it to convey. I don't think there is one. Just take each offer as it comes and respond based on how you're feeling, how much time you have, and how much time you want to invest.
posted by cooker girl at 9:29 AM on June 13, 2024 [4 favorites]
You've gotten a bunch of excellent advice on how to turn her down.
What I want to suggest is slightly orthogonal to your Ask: I'd recommend that you let go of your desire to get her to stop asking. Stop seeing her ask as an imposition on you. Don't hold it against her that she asks to hang out. I mean, keep it in perspective, you know? It's really rather lovely that someone likes you so much that they repeatedly ask to hang out with you. She is not doing anything wrong by asking, she's not harming you by asking. Her asking to hang out is a pure good, a totally positive thing to do when someone is your friend. Please don't build up resentment or weariness against her just because you must now tell her "no".
Yes, I do understand that rejecting someone over and over can be uncomfortable for you. But tactfully declining invitations is a pretty standard adult responsibility, a normal part of life. You should aim to get very comfortable with turning her down in kind ways, rather than hold your discomfort against her.
If you do find yourself resenting her for asking, you probably want to seriously reconsider the friendship. Ask yourself whether you even like this person at all, really?
posted by MiraK at 10:26 AM on June 13, 2024 [13 favorites]
What I want to suggest is slightly orthogonal to your Ask: I'd recommend that you let go of your desire to get her to stop asking. Stop seeing her ask as an imposition on you. Don't hold it against her that she asks to hang out. I mean, keep it in perspective, you know? It's really rather lovely that someone likes you so much that they repeatedly ask to hang out with you. She is not doing anything wrong by asking, she's not harming you by asking. Her asking to hang out is a pure good, a totally positive thing to do when someone is your friend. Please don't build up resentment or weariness against her just because you must now tell her "no".
Yes, I do understand that rejecting someone over and over can be uncomfortable for you. But tactfully declining invitations is a pretty standard adult responsibility, a normal part of life. You should aim to get very comfortable with turning her down in kind ways, rather than hold your discomfort against her.
If you do find yourself resenting her for asking, you probably want to seriously reconsider the friendship. Ask yourself whether you even like this person at all, really?
posted by MiraK at 10:26 AM on June 13, 2024 [13 favorites]
It's okay to say no! Really and truly! When she suggests you go to your house early, you don't need a reason or excuse or explanation. "Oh, gosh, thanks, but that won't be possible. I am looking forward to seeing you at dinner!" Maybe copy/paste this line into a note on your phone so it's ready to go. At some point, she might stop asking. But, regardless, it's totally fine to say no each and every time.
Also, is it possible that she wants a drinking buddy? Does she often have another glass of wine or two at dinner? Could that be contributing to the rants? The notion of drinking before getting in the car is certainly something, especially from an older woman. She either is comfortable driving slightly buzzed or drinks a lot. Perhaps I am projecting, but an older family of mine is always looking for someone to have another glass of wine with her, I think to enable her own drinking, and she gets upset when others don't want to. So your friend might be pre-gaming, you know? But she has this notion of drinking being social, so she hopes you'll be her drinking buddy.
Regardless, practice with the nos.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:05 AM on June 13, 2024 [2 favorites]
Also, is it possible that she wants a drinking buddy? Does she often have another glass of wine or two at dinner? Could that be contributing to the rants? The notion of drinking before getting in the car is certainly something, especially from an older woman. She either is comfortable driving slightly buzzed or drinks a lot. Perhaps I am projecting, but an older family of mine is always looking for someone to have another glass of wine with her, I think to enable her own drinking, and she gets upset when others don't want to. So your friend might be pre-gaming, you know? But she has this notion of drinking being social, so she hopes you'll be her drinking buddy.
Regardless, practice with the nos.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:05 AM on June 13, 2024 [2 favorites]
when you are saying no to the pre-drinks invite, preface your excuse with "as always..." like: "as always, I just won't have time beforehand, sorry! I'll see you at the restaurant at 8"
use that a few times maybe they'll get the hint.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:31 PM on June 13, 2024
use that a few times maybe they'll get the hint.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:31 PM on June 13, 2024
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