Hi Grandma, Relax, We have a Newborn
April 22, 2024 7:19 AM Subscribe
We're having our second in less than two weeks, and my parents are coming to watch our toddler and will help for a day or two. I'd like a script to help my mother not be overbearing with the newborn and try to do too much as she did with newborn last time. Help me with a strategy/script on this that makes this likely and ensures my wife gets to spend quality first couple days with the baby. Snowflakes inside
- my wife is white or "American" as they say.
- My mom has never worked, is South Asian (and traditional, grew up in the villages in the 50s and 60s) and she loves newborns, infants and kids. It's the only thing she feels like an expert in. (she had 3 kids within 1 year)
- Our family is very passive/guess culture/non confrontational.
- My wife asked me to remind my mom this and she was visibly shaking/angry from the first experience (my mom would ask for baby, thinking that holding baby and feeding him-- her thought). She somewhat blames my parents coming for her shortened breast feeding experience (they came to help after about a month of bodhi)
-What we want our parents to do: help with toddler, clean house, cook meals
-What we're ok with: my mom holding baby for short periods until she's older, not 'taking over'
-Ok with asking them they should go home shortly after we return (but not immediately)
-Typical mefi responses like "that's not possible", are not helpful.
- my wife is white or "American" as they say.
- My mom has never worked, is South Asian (and traditional, grew up in the villages in the 50s and 60s) and she loves newborns, infants and kids. It's the only thing she feels like an expert in. (she had 3 kids within 1 year)
- Our family is very passive/guess culture/non confrontational.
- My wife asked me to remind my mom this and she was visibly shaking/angry from the first experience (my mom would ask for baby, thinking that holding baby and feeding him-- her thought). She somewhat blames my parents coming for her shortened breast feeding experience (they came to help after about a month of bodhi)
-What we want our parents to do: help with toddler, clean house, cook meals
-What we're ok with: my mom holding baby for short periods until she's older, not 'taking over'
-Ok with asking them they should go home shortly after we return (but not immediately)
-Typical mefi responses like "that's not possible", are not helpful.
To clarify - they're just coming for a day or two? Or are they planning to come for longer, but you might ask them to leave within a day or two?
Also helpful to know - are they coming from far away, and do they have other grandkids? Have you ever talked with them at all about the previous visit? Are they overbearing in general, or is it just your mother in the context of babies? How are they when visiting with your toddler? How well do they get along with your wife (and you)?
posted by trig at 7:34 AM on April 22, 2024
Also helpful to know - are they coming from far away, and do they have other grandkids? Have you ever talked with them at all about the previous visit? Are they overbearing in general, or is it just your mother in the context of babies? How are they when visiting with your toddler? How well do they get along with your wife (and you)?
posted by trig at 7:34 AM on April 22, 2024
May I suggest you wait on the visit until the baby is older? Given your wife's emotional response and memories of the last time you had a visit with an infant, this seems like a setup for things not going well.
posted by arnicae at 7:36 AM on April 22, 2024 [16 favorites]
posted by arnicae at 7:36 AM on April 22, 2024 [16 favorites]
Best answer: I'm South Asian, and I've seen this dynamic play out multiple times within my family, and friends' families.
You probably know this: it's worth remembering that your mother is probably not doing this to be overbearing or because she thinks you/your wife are not capable. She is doing it out of affection. So any words you craft should I think really acknowledge that what you consider to be overbearing she is doing out of an overwhelming love and eagerness to be close to baby and to share what she considers to be her expertise. The best thing to do would be to redirect her to other activities that would be more helpful to you but doing it in a way that makes her feel valued and welcomed. So you could ask your mother to help with the toddler, framing it like "Toddler has been looking forward to playing his new favourite game with you" or "Can you show me how to make [favourite dish]? I've really been missing it."
I know that sounds like a lot of hard work. If that feels like too much especially in the immediate aftermath of having a new baby, it may be better to reschedule the visit.
posted by unicorn chaser at 7:50 AM on April 22, 2024 [13 favorites]
You probably know this: it's worth remembering that your mother is probably not doing this to be overbearing or because she thinks you/your wife are not capable. She is doing it out of affection. So any words you craft should I think really acknowledge that what you consider to be overbearing she is doing out of an overwhelming love and eagerness to be close to baby and to share what she considers to be her expertise. The best thing to do would be to redirect her to other activities that would be more helpful to you but doing it in a way that makes her feel valued and welcomed. So you could ask your mother to help with the toddler, framing it like "Toddler has been looking forward to playing his new favourite game with you" or "Can you show me how to make [favourite dish]? I've really been missing it."
I know that sounds like a lot of hard work. If that feels like too much especially in the immediate aftermath of having a new baby, it may be better to reschedule the visit.
posted by unicorn chaser at 7:50 AM on April 22, 2024 [13 favorites]
Response by poster: Our parents are watching our toddler when we go to the hospital and they live close (35-40 mins away), so it's not really a visit per se. Parents get along well with my daughter though this experience with newborn hurt relationship a bit. My mom is a little needy (comes in a little hot with my toddler but has relaxed a bit. My parents are not overbearing in general.
My sister is close by as well, and would be a better option but she would likely need to take time off work to do so-- my parents are retired.
Our current plan is to have them stay a day a day or two after we get home, but we're thinking of the subsequent visits as well. (Also wife is also likely going to have a c-section)
posted by sandmanwv at 8:08 AM on April 22, 2024
My sister is close by as well, and would be a better option but she would likely need to take time off work to do so-- my parents are retired.
Our current plan is to have them stay a day a day or two after we get home, but we're thinking of the subsequent visits as well. (Also wife is also likely going to have a c-section)
posted by sandmanwv at 8:08 AM on April 22, 2024
Maybe sit down with your mom and you both take each other seriously as co-planners for how to achieve the best possible outcome. You can talk about what you want to maximize: your wife's happiness, lowest possible stress for her and for everyone, your mom being happy, your mom bonding with the baby, and also practical things like maximum nutritional benefit from food, fewest grocery trips, healthiest amount of exercise for everyone, healthy amount of downtime / alone time.
I'm not trying to make a checklist - ask your Mom what she wants to maximize or checklist, and get her to rank that equally with other needs like "Katie wants at least 19 hours of uninterrupted ____ time per day" or something. If there are numbers associated with that, it might also make a helpful difference.
posted by amtho at 8:21 AM on April 22, 2024
I'm not trying to make a checklist - ask your Mom what she wants to maximize or checklist, and get her to rank that equally with other needs like "Katie wants at least 19 hours of uninterrupted ____ time per day" or something. If there are numbers associated with that, it might also make a helpful difference.
posted by amtho at 8:21 AM on April 22, 2024
Important caveat: My own cultural background includes a lot of well-meaning "expert" mothers but not South Asian (or, for that matter, as "traditional").
One thing I've seen executed successfully within my own family and with friends is drawing lines that are very strict in order to make them unambiguous, even if in theory you would be willing to "allow" more. To be really specific, more than one new parent I've met has found success in simply saying "nobody except parents holds the baby" to avoid grandma 'taking over.' This ends up getting often read as "mom is being weird" but flat-out prevents "holding the baby turns into feeding the baby turns into taking over," which the well-meaning grandma is not really capable of parsing out. In reality they'd be fine with brief holding but these specific well-meaning grandmas were just... not really able to process the distinction that was so important to the parents. In many cases there really wasn't a cultural or personal understanding of "holding baby" as opposed to "providing all manner of care for baby," and without that distinction, it was easier to draw a really strict and unambiguous line that avoided the need to negotiate or explain further something that a well-meaning grandma just couldn't understand.
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:25 AM on April 22, 2024 [3 favorites]
One thing I've seen executed successfully within my own family and with friends is drawing lines that are very strict in order to make them unambiguous, even if in theory you would be willing to "allow" more. To be really specific, more than one new parent I've met has found success in simply saying "nobody except parents holds the baby" to avoid grandma 'taking over.' This ends up getting often read as "mom is being weird" but flat-out prevents "holding the baby turns into feeding the baby turns into taking over," which the well-meaning grandma is not really capable of parsing out. In reality they'd be fine with brief holding but these specific well-meaning grandmas were just... not really able to process the distinction that was so important to the parents. In many cases there really wasn't a cultural or personal understanding of "holding baby" as opposed to "providing all manner of care for baby," and without that distinction, it was easier to draw a really strict and unambiguous line that avoided the need to negotiate or explain further something that a well-meaning grandma just couldn't understand.
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:25 AM on April 22, 2024 [3 favorites]
I'm a South Asian American woman, and with my own mom I found it to be the most useful to be very specific about what I need that would be helpful. Ultimately, they just want to help, which is also what you want. If you direct them to specific tasks, this helps. For me it was stuff like washing pumping supplies and helping with food and older kid. I also explained in excruciating detail 2nd time around why I would sometimes be snapping, why I needed her to not ask me a million follow up questions, because of how stressful the first few weeks would be (because of specifics of our situation, triple feeding iykyk). You can be similarly direct about what to expect and why, and how it is not related to how much you love her and appreciate her.
PLUS understand the biological aspect. At some point I was consciously "awarding" baby time as the ultimate prize for being helpful. A lot of women are biologically drawn to holding small babies and get a serious hit of oxytocin around them. You need to occasionally "give your mother a hit" otherwise she may be miserable, and you're taking away from her something she wants as a reward for being helpful.
MILs are trickier. In my case, for round 2, I didn't let MIL come for a few months because I knew how difficult she would make my life. I regret letting her being around for the pregnancy. Whether or not you have your mother around, please remember that your primary goal must be the welfare of the mother and the child, that they need some early special care and cocooning. Do not try to force this need to find balance with other people's feelings for at least the first 2-3 months, because your wife will rightfully resent it.
These are my opinions and experiences, YMMV.
posted by cacao at 10:28 AM on April 22, 2024 [5 favorites]
PLUS understand the biological aspect. At some point I was consciously "awarding" baby time as the ultimate prize for being helpful. A lot of women are biologically drawn to holding small babies and get a serious hit of oxytocin around them. You need to occasionally "give your mother a hit" otherwise she may be miserable, and you're taking away from her something she wants as a reward for being helpful.
MILs are trickier. In my case, for round 2, I didn't let MIL come for a few months because I knew how difficult she would make my life. I regret letting her being around for the pregnancy. Whether or not you have your mother around, please remember that your primary goal must be the welfare of the mother and the child, that they need some early special care and cocooning. Do not try to force this need to find balance with other people's feelings for at least the first 2-3 months, because your wife will rightfully resent it.
These are my opinions and experiences, YMMV.
posted by cacao at 10:28 AM on April 22, 2024 [5 favorites]
- My wife asked me to remind my mom this and she was visibly shaking/angry from the first experience (my mom would ask for baby, thinking that holding baby and feeding him-- her thought). She somewhat blames my parents coming for her shortened breast feeding experience (they came to help after about a month of bodhi)
This is an incredibly high cost to pay for a few days of childcare and help around the house. I would first talk to your wife about your sister as an option. I don't know what your sister does, but taking off a day or two when my sister has surgery and a newborn seems within the realm of "great times to take time off work" from where I am standing.
It does sound like you have already sorted this with your mom, but in case not: is it possible for toddler to go stay with grandparents for a day or two, and then you can take care of your wife and baby with no one else around?
I also think there are more conversations you can have with your wife about your role. If your mother is taking over, that's a place for you to step in and manage. Or, could your sister help manage your mother?
I don't think there's once conversation you can have with your mom that's going to make this work, but it will require active management. It sounds like your wife has a lot of anger and hurt about her experience when your toddler was an infant. Those buttons are liable to get pushed even more quickly. So I want you to think about how you will behave if your mother takes over.
And, yeah, I think your sister is the untapped resource here. If you all are on the same page, she can likely help with a lot of this, including your mom.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:05 PM on April 22, 2024 [7 favorites]
This is an incredibly high cost to pay for a few days of childcare and help around the house. I would first talk to your wife about your sister as an option. I don't know what your sister does, but taking off a day or two when my sister has surgery and a newborn seems within the realm of "great times to take time off work" from where I am standing.
It does sound like you have already sorted this with your mom, but in case not: is it possible for toddler to go stay with grandparents for a day or two, and then you can take care of your wife and baby with no one else around?
I also think there are more conversations you can have with your wife about your role. If your mother is taking over, that's a place for you to step in and manage. Or, could your sister help manage your mother?
I don't think there's once conversation you can have with your mom that's going to make this work, but it will require active management. It sounds like your wife has a lot of anger and hurt about her experience when your toddler was an infant. Those buttons are liable to get pushed even more quickly. So I want you to think about how you will behave if your mother takes over.
And, yeah, I think your sister is the untapped resource here. If you all are on the same page, she can likely help with a lot of this, including your mom.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:05 PM on April 22, 2024 [7 favorites]
Families will then continue on to teach your kids weird stuff, bully you about how to raise them, so be assertive about the baby's Mother being the one who decides, full stop. Be super appreciative of your folks for coming to help, but you may as well be clear, because you are going to have to be clear for years. The sooner you kindly and firmly set boundaries, the better.
posted by theora55 at 12:12 PM on April 22, 2024
posted by theora55 at 12:12 PM on April 22, 2024
Best answer: If this is a difference of cultural expectations and customs around new-baby visits, can you just explicitly frame it that way for your mom? It's weird to treat it as though your wife's preferences were the natural or default kind while your mom's model is culture-bound. Could you say to your mom some subset of the following:
--I know you're eager to help, but in the white culture my wife is from, breastfeeding is very high-status and they're afraid that if anybody holds the baby for too long except the mother, that it will stop breastfeeding early, or won't love the mom as much. Could she always be the one to hold the baby?
--In my wife's culture, there's a lot of pressure on women to do research on scientific methods of child-rearing and to develop their own individual set of family rules rather than relying on the community. The first weeks after the baby is born are a time that the mom can feel a lot of pressure and anxiety to figure these out, so they can be defensive about other people imposing their rules. Could you help her out by always asking her what you should do, so she doesn't feel anxious that she doesn't have power over how the household runs?
-- You knnow I love you guys so much, but in my wife's culture, people have to move around more for work and there's a lot more emphasis on the bond with the nuclear family over all else. It totally doesn't change our relationship with you, but there is this expectation that the mom, dad and kids will have this solo period soon after the baby is born and the idea is that that's when the kids will all bond properly to the mom and the dad. I think my wife has been hearing a lot about this from her friends and she will be disappointed if she doesn't have that time. Would it be OK if we also started some weeks by ourselves at some point after you've visited to celebrate the baby?
Those frame the behaviors you're requesting, accurately, as concessions to a different set of cultural norms, not better or worse than hers but worth deferring to as an act of love for her daughter-in-law who comes from a different background. It seems like a much less oppositional framework than "This is what I want/ this is what's right."
posted by Bardolph at 12:19 PM on April 22, 2024 [19 favorites]
--I know you're eager to help, but in the white culture my wife is from, breastfeeding is very high-status and they're afraid that if anybody holds the baby for too long except the mother, that it will stop breastfeeding early, or won't love the mom as much. Could she always be the one to hold the baby?
--In my wife's culture, there's a lot of pressure on women to do research on scientific methods of child-rearing and to develop their own individual set of family rules rather than relying on the community. The first weeks after the baby is born are a time that the mom can feel a lot of pressure and anxiety to figure these out, so they can be defensive about other people imposing their rules. Could you help her out by always asking her what you should do, so she doesn't feel anxious that she doesn't have power over how the household runs?
-- You knnow I love you guys so much, but in my wife's culture, people have to move around more for work and there's a lot more emphasis on the bond with the nuclear family over all else. It totally doesn't change our relationship with you, but there is this expectation that the mom, dad and kids will have this solo period soon after the baby is born and the idea is that that's when the kids will all bond properly to the mom and the dad. I think my wife has been hearing a lot about this from her friends and she will be disappointed if she doesn't have that time. Would it be OK if we also started some weeks by ourselves at some point after you've visited to celebrate the baby?
Those frame the behaviors you're requesting, accurately, as concessions to a different set of cultural norms, not better or worse than hers but worth deferring to as an act of love for her daughter-in-law who comes from a different background. It seems like a much less oppositional framework than "This is what I want/ this is what's right."
posted by Bardolph at 12:19 PM on April 22, 2024 [19 favorites]
I agree with bluedaisy that your sister could be a great resource here - I am from a desi family and successfully intervened in a similar situation on behalf of my SIL / baby nephew.
In my situation, I noticed my parents being overbearing with the baby and my SIL not comfortable enough to push back in those moments, so in a separate calm conversation, I pointed out to my parents that "I noticed whenever SIL is holding the baby, you take the baby from her arms...I think when SIL is here, she should probably take the lead on baby care, etc. When you are babysitting, obviously you guys handle everything but when SIL is here she can manage it." My parents took it well and were grateful I pointed it out - note that they do care for the baby multiple days a week, so it was more a reminder to switch to "off" when SIL and baby were together.
While I think you should lead the convo with your mother., I think a mother<>daughter conversation from your sister may help reinforce the message and may be easier for grandma to handle. Sister can remind grandma of the importance of mother<> child direct bonding time, and impart her own perspective as a mother / future mother / woman etc. Good luck.>>
posted by icy_latte at 12:48 PM on April 22, 2024 [2 favorites]
In my situation, I noticed my parents being overbearing with the baby and my SIL not comfortable enough to push back in those moments, so in a separate calm conversation, I pointed out to my parents that "I noticed whenever SIL is holding the baby, you take the baby from her arms...I think when SIL is here, she should probably take the lead on baby care, etc. When you are babysitting, obviously you guys handle everything but when SIL is here she can manage it." My parents took it well and were grateful I pointed it out - note that they do care for the baby multiple days a week, so it was more a reminder to switch to "off" when SIL and baby were together.
While I think you should lead the convo with your mother., I think a mother<>daughter conversation from your sister may help reinforce the message and may be easier for grandma to handle. Sister can remind grandma of the importance of mother<> child direct bonding time, and impart her own perspective as a mother / future mother / woman etc. Good luck.>>
posted by icy_latte at 12:48 PM on April 22, 2024 [2 favorites]
I can only tell you what I did in this scenario, which was lose my sh*t and very directly tell Grandma to stop it with the baby. Is there a reason your wife can’t say “no” when Grandma tries to take the baby?
posted by haptic_avenger at 1:25 PM on April 22, 2024
posted by haptic_avenger at 1:25 PM on April 22, 2024
It's not clear whether they are sleeping at your house. If that is the plan, I recommend changing it unless your wife really wants them to stay, since they live close enough to go home to sleep. It changes the dynamic a lot when it feels like someone has moved in. They can stay over if need be while you're in the hospital but otherwise, no. (And if viable, it may be even better if they just took the toddler to their place for a few days.)
posted by metasarah at 2:51 PM on April 22, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 2:51 PM on April 22, 2024 [4 favorites]
Why is toddler not staying with the grandparents for a while?
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:00 PM on April 22, 2024
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:00 PM on April 22, 2024
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If not, can you emphasize to your mom where her help is wanted. Focus on “please bring my wife drinks so you has something during breastfeeding,” and “please spend so much quality time with toddler,” rather than “don’t take the newborn.”?
posted by raccoon409 at 7:34 AM on April 22, 2024 [5 favorites]