Eight more years of unemployability
May 9, 2006 11:37 PM Subscribe
I have questions about grad school for literature.
I graduated from a good public school (UCSC) last June with a decent GPA (about 3.6) and a few very good narrative evaluations, which (by the way) are just what they sound like, for those of you unfamiliar.
Here's what I want to figure out: how can I find a grad program that will work for me? I think the single biggest obstacle is my non-fluency in every non-English language. I have a bit of Russian and have been taking German lessons with a private tutor post-graduation in an attempt to get something started on the road to multi-lingualism in a language I find interesting, but it seems like many grad programs for English and essentially any and every grad program for literature requires fluency in at least two languages, if not more.
I really enjoy the academic life and I feel passionately about everything it entails; I don't have any real doubts about grad school per se, I just want to figure out how to make it happen. So I guess I'm also asking for specific recommendations.
Thank you, Metafilter.
I graduated from a good public school (UCSC) last June with a decent GPA (about 3.6) and a few very good narrative evaluations, which (by the way) are just what they sound like, for those of you unfamiliar.
Here's what I want to figure out: how can I find a grad program that will work for me? I think the single biggest obstacle is my non-fluency in every non-English language. I have a bit of Russian and have been taking German lessons with a private tutor post-graduation in an attempt to get something started on the road to multi-lingualism in a language I find interesting, but it seems like many grad programs for English and essentially any and every grad program for literature requires fluency in at least two languages, if not more.
I really enjoy the academic life and I feel passionately about everything it entails; I don't have any real doubts about grad school per se, I just want to figure out how to make it happen. So I guess I'm also asking for specific recommendations.
Thank you, Metafilter.
UNLV, I know, requires reading knowledge of one language for a MA and two languages for a PhD. Most people just take a test that involves reading literary criticism in the foreign language, and a dictionary is allowed. Taking the test early is encouraged, so you don't get to the end of the program and fail the language exam. You can also pass a fourth semester foreign language class instead of taking the test at all.
When I was shopping for grad schools, this seemed pretty common.
(For what it's worth, I ended up transferring to Cal State's online Humanities MA in English Lit - no foreign language requirement at all, and no more falling asleep in class after long days at work. Also no substitute for academia, but grad school culture isn't important to everyone.)
posted by Liffey at 12:22 AM on May 10, 2006
When I was shopping for grad schools, this seemed pretty common.
(For what it's worth, I ended up transferring to Cal State's online Humanities MA in English Lit - no foreign language requirement at all, and no more falling asleep in class after long days at work. Also no substitute for academia, but grad school culture isn't important to everyone.)
posted by Liffey at 12:22 AM on May 10, 2006
Two things I would consider that are both contingent on your financial situation: though they are becoming ever more mass education oriented, British universities still assume a certain elite student body. Thus while they would assume that PhD candidates are multilingual they wouldn’t be so vulgar as to test you on it.
So you could consider applying to a British PhD program in Lit but consider these carefully as they, with a number of notable exceptions, tend to be more traditional than in the States.
Alternatively, instead of spending money on a British PhD find a masters program or some similar qualification in Germany (or wherever they speak the language you choose) and live there for a year or more and gain fluency before returning to an American uni. I know a number of people who have done this and though they take longer than others to finish I don’t know anyone who regrets doing it. This can often result in some pretty outstanding funding from the American universities in question and you can sometimes negotiate what will be credited and what wont.
These are expensive (though you could potentially get funding) but probably less expensive than an unfunded American PhD or less expensive than what a funded PhD at an unrated American university will turn out to be in the long run.
posted by anglophiliated at 3:25 AM on May 10, 2006
So you could consider applying to a British PhD program in Lit but consider these carefully as they, with a number of notable exceptions, tend to be more traditional than in the States.
Alternatively, instead of spending money on a British PhD find a masters program or some similar qualification in Germany (or wherever they speak the language you choose) and live there for a year or more and gain fluency before returning to an American uni. I know a number of people who have done this and though they take longer than others to finish I don’t know anyone who regrets doing it. This can often result in some pretty outstanding funding from the American universities in question and you can sometimes negotiate what will be credited and what wont.
These are expensive (though you could potentially get funding) but probably less expensive than an unfunded American PhD or less expensive than what a funded PhD at an unrated American university will turn out to be in the long run.
posted by anglophiliated at 3:25 AM on May 10, 2006
UCSC's own second-language requirement is met by taking a three-week intensive course. The skill levels are generally all over the place, and it doesn't take an extremely high level of fluency to get through it. I imagine it's near the same elsewhere.
Perhaps you know of it already, but check out Middlebury's language schools in the summer. If you wanted to learn Spanish, AskMe once told me that it was very cheap to do so in Guatemala, and I've wanted to ever since.
posted by rfordh at 4:09 AM on May 10, 2006
Perhaps you know of it already, but check out Middlebury's language schools in the summer. If you wanted to learn Spanish, AskMe once told me that it was very cheap to do so in Guatemala, and I've wanted to ever since.
posted by rfordh at 4:09 AM on May 10, 2006
I'm in Harvard's English Ph.D program, and the requirement here is that you pass two language reading exams with a dictionary. Lots of people arrive with no other languages at all and pass the exams quite easily after a year or two of the language.
I wouldn't worry about languages at all if you're applying to an English Literature program.
posted by josh at 6:09 AM on May 10, 2006
I wouldn't worry about languages at all if you're applying to an English Literature program.
posted by josh at 6:09 AM on May 10, 2006
I am in history myself, but I know a fair number of people in literature and other humanities disciplines. As far as I know, what josh says is true at other univertsities - language exams are cursory, and only require you to demonstrate very basic reading skills (trust me, I just passed two). Yale has reading classes in most major languages, and graduates are allowed to attend undergraduate beginning classes for any language not offered or in which they want to do deeper study.
That said, students who lack languages (like me) are limited in their academic careers. It depends on what you are interested in studying - it's less important in 20th century American literature, for example, but if you are at all interested in comparative literature, early literature (especially medieval) or just generally having access to the wealth of criticism in other languages, it might be a good idea to try to learn them. I didn't, and I regret it. It's very difficult (though not impossible) to learn languages while completing PhD coursework, and most students I know who have been serious about a language have taken time off to study it intensively. This could be a masters or it could be during one of your summers. Funding is available for some masters programs which focus on language; doing a masters isn't a waste of time, if you can get funding - my program reduces the PhD courseload for students with masters.
That said, if you are interested in German specifically, there are some very good and well supported exchange programs to Germany to improve language skills. Most require an intermediate knowledge of German, but if you go on, keep an eye out for them.
posted by jb at 6:39 AM on May 10, 2006
That said, students who lack languages (like me) are limited in their academic careers. It depends on what you are interested in studying - it's less important in 20th century American literature, for example, but if you are at all interested in comparative literature, early literature (especially medieval) or just generally having access to the wealth of criticism in other languages, it might be a good idea to try to learn them. I didn't, and I regret it. It's very difficult (though not impossible) to learn languages while completing PhD coursework, and most students I know who have been serious about a language have taken time off to study it intensively. This could be a masters or it could be during one of your summers. Funding is available for some masters programs which focus on language; doing a masters isn't a waste of time, if you can get funding - my program reduces the PhD courseload for students with masters.
That said, if you are interested in German specifically, there are some very good and well supported exchange programs to Germany to improve language skills. Most require an intermediate knowledge of German, but if you go on, keep an eye out for them.
posted by jb at 6:39 AM on May 10, 2006
I had to have two languages for my PhD. For one, I had to be able to translate back and forth. For the other, I had to be able to read only. For both tests, i was able to use a dictionary.
For French, I audited an undergrad class. That was enough prep to be able to do the simple translations required on the grad student exam. For German, I taught myself. The reading exam was quite simple; I just made sure my dictionary had some simple grammar guides. I think I had to take the German test twice, but, really, it was no biggie.
I don't think the foreign language issue will be a barrier.
posted by MrMoonPie at 6:51 AM on May 10, 2006
For French, I audited an undergrad class. That was enough prep to be able to do the simple translations required on the grad student exam. For German, I taught myself. The reading exam was quite simple; I just made sure my dictionary had some simple grammar guides. I think I had to take the German test twice, but, really, it was no biggie.
I don't think the foreign language issue will be a barrier.
posted by MrMoonPie at 6:51 AM on May 10, 2006
I'm an English Ph.D student at the University of Sussex in the UK. The language requirement was definitely a factor in where I chose to do my doctorate. I have reading knowledge of French but a lot of English Ph.D programs also require an ancient language and looking at Latin or Medieval English seemed overwhelming to me. However, it was more of a time constraint in my case. I have had friends go through the English Ph.D and with some time and preparation passed the language requirements at their various universities with no problem. In my case, I didn't want to waste the time when I am never going to use these languages in a teaching or academic environment after my degree. This has allowed me to (it's looking like) finish my doctorate in 2.5 years. If you already know that you want to work in academia, it's going to be a good idea to take the languages as it'll be a bonus in applying for positions post-degree.
I'd spend more time in evaluating the type of programs the universities offer. What classes they have, if you plan on doing a Ph.D that involves coursework, or what methodology the particular university focuses on - some English departments are big on postcolonialism, or 19th century studies or whatever. For me, the biggest factor was being able to do interdisciplinary work - visual art and literature in my case. I'm not very familiar with these kinds of programs in the US (because I didn't want to spend 5-6 years doing my doctorate) but there are a lot of British schools that offer really cool interdisciplinary programs if you bypass the Oxbridge route.
I'd also recommend shopping around carefully for a supervisor - it has been my experience that your supervisor can make or break your degree. Mine is superb and I can't imagine finishing the degree or being prepared for my defense without her. Anyway, good luck! I'm still having a blast doing my degree - it's a great way to spend a few years of your life.
posted by meerkatty at 7:10 AM on May 10, 2006
I'd spend more time in evaluating the type of programs the universities offer. What classes they have, if you plan on doing a Ph.D that involves coursework, or what methodology the particular university focuses on - some English departments are big on postcolonialism, or 19th century studies or whatever. For me, the biggest factor was being able to do interdisciplinary work - visual art and literature in my case. I'm not very familiar with these kinds of programs in the US (because I didn't want to spend 5-6 years doing my doctorate) but there are a lot of British schools that offer really cool interdisciplinary programs if you bypass the Oxbridge route.
I'd also recommend shopping around carefully for a supervisor - it has been my experience that your supervisor can make or break your degree. Mine is superb and I can't imagine finishing the degree or being prepared for my defense without her. Anyway, good luck! I'm still having a blast doing my degree - it's a great way to spend a few years of your life.
posted by meerkatty at 7:10 AM on May 10, 2006
Don't go to graduate school just because you really like school.
My firsthand and secondhand experiences with academia (in the literature field) tells me: the job market is pretty abysmal (a Yale PhD applying to over 100 jobs and getting a handful of interviews), you have to do a lot of universitypolitical things (that have nothing to do with school) and you have to deal with rejection after rejection after rejection. I doubt you feel passionately about that.
Not continuing on for a PhD after getting my MA was the smartest thing I ever did.
posted by elisabeth r at 7:38 AM on May 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
My firsthand and secondhand experiences with academia (in the literature field) tells me: the job market is pretty abysmal (a Yale PhD applying to over 100 jobs and getting a handful of interviews), you have to do a lot of universitypolitical things (that have nothing to do with school) and you have to deal with rejection after rejection after rejection. I doubt you feel passionately about that.
Not continuing on for a PhD after getting my MA was the smartest thing I ever did.
posted by elisabeth r at 7:38 AM on May 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
Clockzero: I agree with what others have said, you are actually ahead of the game regarding languages. As you continue to prepare, remember that in this context language proficiency means reading in the language, not writing or speaking. You should be able, with a dictionary, to read and translate an academic article in the language.
Also--have you taken a long hard look at the job market for English Ph.D.s? It is really tough. Don't even start on this path unless you are willing to sacrifice everything else for half a decade or so, and after that, are willing to live anywhere at all that you get offered a job. My email is in the profile if you wish to talk more about this.
posted by LarryC at 7:39 AM on May 10, 2006
Also--have you taken a long hard look at the job market for English Ph.D.s? It is really tough. Don't even start on this path unless you are willing to sacrifice everything else for half a decade or so, and after that, are willing to live anywhere at all that you get offered a job. My email is in the profile if you wish to talk more about this.
posted by LarryC at 7:39 AM on May 10, 2006
At a lot of literature programs, the language requirement is a historical artifact and/or goes largely unenforced. At the program I'm about to attend, which is pretty well-regarded, we were told the two-language-fluency-minimum requirement described in ironclad terms on the Web site is entirely on the honor system. They don't even require you to pass a written examination.
Now, I'm still taking German this summer to prepare, but that's because the work I want to do sort of requires it, not because the program does.
I was pretty worried about this requirement when I applied too, but as others have said, I think you're doing fine.
posted by BackwardsCity at 8:17 AM on May 10, 2006
Now, I'm still taking German this summer to prepare, but that's because the work I want to do sort of requires it, not because the program does.
I was pretty worried about this requirement when I applied too, but as others have said, I think you're doing fine.
posted by BackwardsCity at 8:17 AM on May 10, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by drewbeck at 12:03 AM on May 10, 2006