What does an excellent vacation & sick leave policy look like?
March 14, 2024 8:32 AM Subscribe
I'm designing a vacation & sick leave policy for an extremely small company, and I'd like to make it as friendly as possible to employees. I've had good vacation and sick leave policies in the past, but I'm having trouble remembering the exact details of how they worked, so I'd love help from Metafilter: if you have a great vacation & sick leave policy, what does it look like exactly?
Some specific questions:
* how many vacation days are there?
* what flexibility was there around vacation days? (how much do they allow people to go into "vacation debt"?)
* what was the sick leave policy? was sick leave formally tracked in any way or was it just "take what you need?"
* are vacation and sick leave combined?
* how does the time accumulate?
Some specific questions:
* how many vacation days are there?
* what flexibility was there around vacation days? (how much do they allow people to go into "vacation debt"?)
* what was the sick leave policy? was sick leave formally tracked in any way or was it just "take what you need?"
* are vacation and sick leave combined?
* how does the time accumulate?
Call it Paid Time Off (PTO), without differentiating between "vacation" and "sick time."
Allow unused sick days to be banked only for long-term events (e.g., cancer, baby, major surgery).
If the business allows it, let employees be flexible for work hours on days with short appointments so that they don't need to use up PTO if they can cover it by working early/late that day.
Be flexible in using small increments of PTO (e.g., one-hour blocks), instead of only whole- or half-days.
Allow a floating holiday for flexibility in religious observances -- or just more PTO!
Everyone gets half a sick day per month. Let the PTO be based on time in service, but don't make the steps take like decades to reach.
Each year's allotment of PTO accrues on January 1 so that different people don't get weird spurts of time being awarded on their hiring anniversary. (I worked at a place that switched from the latter to the former, and we had lifers who suddenly had eight weeks of vacation to use in one year. It sucked because, on top of our generous holidays, they were essentially part-time!)
posted by wenestvedt at 8:46 AM on March 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
Allow unused sick days to be banked only for long-term events (e.g., cancer, baby, major surgery).
If the business allows it, let employees be flexible for work hours on days with short appointments so that they don't need to use up PTO if they can cover it by working early/late that day.
Be flexible in using small increments of PTO (e.g., one-hour blocks), instead of only whole- or half-days.
Allow a floating holiday for flexibility in religious observances -- or just more PTO!
Everyone gets half a sick day per month. Let the PTO be based on time in service, but don't make the steps take like decades to reach.
Each year's allotment of PTO accrues on January 1 so that different people don't get weird spurts of time being awarded on their hiring anniversary. (I worked at a place that switched from the latter to the former, and we had lifers who suddenly had eight weeks of vacation to use in one year. It sucked because, on top of our generous holidays, they were essentially part-time!)
posted by wenestvedt at 8:46 AM on March 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
Sick leave separate from vacation. Ideally unlimited! Can be used for sick children, elders or pets. HR can manage any people who abuse the policy but most people are completely reasonable with it. More then 3 days in a row consider a doctors note. For gods sake never a note for 1 day.
Absence unlimited sick leave then 6-10d is generally what I’ve seen.
I love unlimited vacation (with a rough guidance of 3 weeks to 5 weeks depending on tenure). This way 1) people don’t have to stress to cram life into exactly 15 working days, and 2) as I understand from an accounting perspective there’s nothing on the books, no carry over, no payout at the end of the year etc.
Absence of unlimited time off, then unlimited carry over (or at the very least, use by 1st quarter) also isn’t bad. Accrued on a paycheck basis, but can borrow forward up to 1 years worth (which is deducted from final paycheck if in arrears).
Also, allow for personal days - you’re not sick but you need to get things done that can’t be done on a weekend.
Volunteer days 1-2d a year.
The times I worked at companies with policies like above, I felt a sort of freedom and lack of stress which is worth money.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:50 AM on March 14, 2024
Absence unlimited sick leave then 6-10d is generally what I’ve seen.
I love unlimited vacation (with a rough guidance of 3 weeks to 5 weeks depending on tenure). This way 1) people don’t have to stress to cram life into exactly 15 working days, and 2) as I understand from an accounting perspective there’s nothing on the books, no carry over, no payout at the end of the year etc.
Absence of unlimited time off, then unlimited carry over (or at the very least, use by 1st quarter) also isn’t bad. Accrued on a paycheck basis, but can borrow forward up to 1 years worth (which is deducted from final paycheck if in arrears).
Also, allow for personal days - you’re not sick but you need to get things done that can’t be done on a weekend.
Volunteer days 1-2d a year.
The times I worked at companies with policies like above, I felt a sort of freedom and lack of stress which is worth money.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:50 AM on March 14, 2024
Best answer: vacation and sick leave should be separate. i was always happier when i had x sick days and x vacation days. and wasn't "wasting" a vacation day on puking and being sick.
i currently get 14 vacation days with 5 more every 5 years up to like 25 i think. this is very generous in my experience. sick days are "unlimited" but obviously don't abuse it.
we ALSO get the week of july 4 off (summer shutdown) and the week between xmas and new year (winter shutdown). this is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge and really gives me a whole month of vacation time.
we can't roll over vacation time from year to year. which is fine with me.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 8:50 AM on March 14, 2024 [8 favorites]
i currently get 14 vacation days with 5 more every 5 years up to like 25 i think. this is very generous in my experience. sick days are "unlimited" but obviously don't abuse it.
we ALSO get the week of july 4 off (summer shutdown) and the week between xmas and new year (winter shutdown). this is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge and really gives me a whole month of vacation time.
we can't roll over vacation time from year to year. which is fine with me.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 8:50 AM on March 14, 2024 [8 favorites]
Unlimited time off (referred to as FTO, Flexible Time Off.) Must be approved by manager. I've had a place that required a minimum of 2 weeks off per year, to make sure that people weren't NOT taking it (a consequence of FTO sometimes.)
These are salaried desk job type roles, so there's no issue around coverage or shifts.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 8:51 AM on March 14, 2024 [5 favorites]
These are salaried desk job type roles, so there's no issue around coverage or shifts.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 8:51 AM on March 14, 2024 [5 favorites]
Hands-down the best vacation and sick day policy I've had is my current one, which is unlimited PTO and sick time.
Flexibility is 100%
Sick leave is "take what you need"
Everything is under the umbrella of PTO
Doesn't accumulate
Vacation is at manager's discretion and because we're all adults, we do our best not to schedule a 2 week vacay during known crunch times but I have never once had a request denied. I take probably 3 weeks off per year for pure vacay, and a smattering of personal/sick days. We are also very much in the "it's fine to take 2 hours off for an appointment you don't have to burn a whole day" camp.
Now, I may be an outlier in enjoying this; I'm sure it's a nightmare if you have a shitty corporate culture where vacation is implicitly or explicitly discouraged, or a bunch of asshole dingbat managers. But if this company is extremely small you can probably tell pretty quickly whether this is the case.
In my case it means we all basically just get what we need or want and do not have to jump through a million hoops or work here til the end of time to benefit. I would not want to go back to any of my prior vacation policies, unless I absolutely had to.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:51 AM on March 14, 2024 [8 favorites]
Flexibility is 100%
Sick leave is "take what you need"
Everything is under the umbrella of PTO
Doesn't accumulate
Vacation is at manager's discretion and because we're all adults, we do our best not to schedule a 2 week vacay during known crunch times but I have never once had a request denied. I take probably 3 weeks off per year for pure vacay, and a smattering of personal/sick days. We are also very much in the "it's fine to take 2 hours off for an appointment you don't have to burn a whole day" camp.
Now, I may be an outlier in enjoying this; I'm sure it's a nightmare if you have a shitty corporate culture where vacation is implicitly or explicitly discouraged, or a bunch of asshole dingbat managers. But if this company is extremely small you can probably tell pretty quickly whether this is the case.
In my case it means we all basically just get what we need or want and do not have to jump through a million hoops or work here til the end of time to benefit. I would not want to go back to any of my prior vacation policies, unless I absolutely had to.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:51 AM on March 14, 2024 [8 favorites]
I actually hate having combined PTO, and much preferred the job where I had 8 sick days, 3 floating holidays, plus whatever vacation days you earned based on tenure. The sick days and floating holidays did not carry over year to year but the vacation days did, up to some maximum.
The one thing my current org does right is close the office (with pay) for everyone for the week between xmas and new years.
posted by misskaz at 8:52 AM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
The one thing my current org does right is close the office (with pay) for everyone for the week between xmas and new years.
posted by misskaz at 8:52 AM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
don't: accrue pto over the year as you go and then use or lose it by the next one
posted by lescour at 8:53 AM on March 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by lescour at 8:53 AM on March 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Oh yeah, we also do have a "winter break" where the offices are closed from 12/24 to 1/2. This really takes a ton of pressure off, but I know that some businesses have too much going on in the end of Q4 for that to be a thing.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:53 AM on March 14, 2024 [9 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:53 AM on March 14, 2024 [9 favorites]
"As much vacation as possible" obviously, but 3 weeks is a decent starting point. Allow people to go into two weeks of vacation debt, and to take unpaid vacation with approval of their supervisor. Vacation should be accrued each pay period (ie, if you pay people twice a month, they get 1/24th of their vacation hours each month.)
Strong preference not to combine sick leave and vacation. At a good company give as much sick leave as you want and people won't abuse it. I'd give people 20 days. The policy should expect it to be tracked.
Note some of these rules may hit state law requirements. In California, for example, if you were to combine sick leave and vacation days, I believe you'd have to let the days carry over annually (up to a cap), and pay people for unused sick days when they left.
posted by mark k at 8:53 AM on March 14, 2024
Strong preference not to combine sick leave and vacation. At a good company give as much sick leave as you want and people won't abuse it. I'd give people 20 days. The policy should expect it to be tracked.
Note some of these rules may hit state law requirements. In California, for example, if you were to combine sick leave and vacation days, I believe you'd have to let the days carry over annually (up to a cap), and pay people for unused sick days when they left.
posted by mark k at 8:53 AM on March 14, 2024
My standard across four jobs so far has been:
1. Vacation - 2 weeks of vacation per year for the first year of working at entry level. The vacation accrues with every pay period so you can't take much time off until you accrue enough. 3 weeks of vacation when you get to mid-level or stay for a couple years and 4 weeks at high-level or stay for a long time. If you transition in at mid-level or high-level, you start at that vacation level.
2. Sick Leave - 10 days a year. Some companies switch to unlimited. For the 10 days, they tracked it through their tracking system (sometimes electronic, sometimes emailing HR, etc.). For unlimited, they didn't really track it but I just emailed my supervisor. I know in my sister's workplace, they often donated sick leave to a fellow coworker in need for maternity leave or family stuff. So this could be something to build in.
3. Personal Days - I usually had about 3 personal days a year. I don't think this was accrued so you can take it whenever you need.
4. Flexibility - It really depended on my manager. I've never went into vacation debt but I think I could have when my dad passed away or I had family obligations but I have also stayed at jobs for 5+ years so building up good will would be crucial to flexibility.
5. Combined - I have never had vacation and sick leave combined.
6. Accumulation - Vacation leave accumulates by pay period because work usually treated it as a form of pay. Some workplaces won't let you take any vacation until about 6 months in but that just seems petty to me.
posted by ichimunki at 8:54 AM on March 14, 2024
1. Vacation - 2 weeks of vacation per year for the first year of working at entry level. The vacation accrues with every pay period so you can't take much time off until you accrue enough. 3 weeks of vacation when you get to mid-level or stay for a couple years and 4 weeks at high-level or stay for a long time. If you transition in at mid-level or high-level, you start at that vacation level.
2. Sick Leave - 10 days a year. Some companies switch to unlimited. For the 10 days, they tracked it through their tracking system (sometimes electronic, sometimes emailing HR, etc.). For unlimited, they didn't really track it but I just emailed my supervisor. I know in my sister's workplace, they often donated sick leave to a fellow coworker in need for maternity leave or family stuff. So this could be something to build in.
3. Personal Days - I usually had about 3 personal days a year. I don't think this was accrued so you can take it whenever you need.
4. Flexibility - It really depended on my manager. I've never went into vacation debt but I think I could have when my dad passed away or I had family obligations but I have also stayed at jobs for 5+ years so building up good will would be crucial to flexibility.
5. Combined - I have never had vacation and sick leave combined.
6. Accumulation - Vacation leave accumulates by pay period because work usually treated it as a form of pay. Some workplaces won't let you take any vacation until about 6 months in but that just seems petty to me.
posted by ichimunki at 8:54 AM on March 14, 2024
What constitutes an excellent vacation policy varies by country.
I live in Canada with over five years tenure at my job. My vacation is very good. Here’s what I have:
25 days vacation
4 floating holiday
10 days sick
5 or 10 days bereavement, can’t remember which
My managers look the other way at booking sick days formally, so I could go over. The only time the max is important is to use it before going on short term disability.
I would say 20 days vacation is good for new hires, you can step up after certain anniversaries. My employer and many others start at 15 days, which disincentivizes me from looking at other jobs.
posted by shock muppet at 8:55 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
I live in Canada with over five years tenure at my job. My vacation is very good. Here’s what I have:
25 days vacation
4 floating holiday
10 days sick
5 or 10 days bereavement, can’t remember which
My managers look the other way at booking sick days formally, so I could go over. The only time the max is important is to use it before going on short term disability.
I would say 20 days vacation is good for new hires, you can step up after certain anniversaries. My employer and many others start at 15 days, which disincentivizes me from looking at other jobs.
posted by shock muppet at 8:55 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
As a disabled person, I would recommend building in accessible and universal design for your work environments to reduce the cost of overhead and additional stress regarding managing 'noncompliant' workers. Unlimited sick leave and unlimited PTO, separately, and also a management environment that does not require folks to have to document so deeply for very small instances. The administrative bloat to require folks to report each and every single instance also adds additional work-life stress and lower productivity and morale for your workers, a simple check-in will do. Having to budget to an arbitrary number like 10 or 20 days requires in employees spending more time thinking about how they will budget their sick and vacation days and argue for their case to the managers, rather than completing their job tasks. Reduce administrative burden for everyone.
You could actually survey the folks you are making the policy for and ask for what they think, but some of them may have only worked in restrictive environments so may not be totally helpful in suggestions.
posted by yueliang at 8:55 AM on March 14, 2024
You could actually survey the folks you are making the policy for and ask for what they think, but some of them may have only worked in restrictive environments so may not be totally helpful in suggestions.
posted by yueliang at 8:55 AM on March 14, 2024
The best plan is whatever the employees determine is best for them. The second best plan is whatever the employees union negotiates with management.
posted by furnace.heart at 8:56 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by furnace.heart at 8:56 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
Take into account the dead periods revolving around holidays and simply close the office. If you have, for instance, a sales organization and there is no one at all to call and nothing that can be progressed or closed between Christmas Eve and New Year's Day, do not make your staff choose between sitting around the office cleaning their cubicle and browsing the internet or taking PTO. If your company works largely with banks, be closed on bank holidays.
Just as noted by others, all of the people I know of who work at "unlimited time off" companies actually feel pressure not to take much time off.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:59 AM on March 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
Just as noted by others, all of the people I know of who work at "unlimited time off" companies actually feel pressure not to take much time off.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:59 AM on March 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
Another potential time off benefit- My employer briefly offered “wellness days” which was 1 Friday off a month for the whole company in addition to holidays. This was wonderful while it lasted. A 4 day work week would also be welcomed.
posted by shock muppet at 9:01 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by shock muppet at 9:01 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
I would encourage you to look at local government policies. This is one of the areas we do really well. Here's some information from my employer:
Vacation
start 15 days
5 years 20 days
10 years 25 days
15 years 30 days
We front load vacation on hire and there is a way to go into vacation debt with supervisor approval.
I'm a big advocate of vacation and sick leave being separate so you don't get sick people coming to work to hoard vacation. We earn a day of sick leave every month, up to 250 days. We also have a separate COVID leave of a week/incident.
posted by notjustthefish at 9:01 AM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
Vacation
start 15 days
5 years 20 days
10 years 25 days
15 years 30 days
We front load vacation on hire and there is a way to go into vacation debt with supervisor approval.
I'm a big advocate of vacation and sick leave being separate so you don't get sick people coming to work to hoard vacation. We earn a day of sick leave every month, up to 250 days. We also have a separate COVID leave of a week/incident.
posted by notjustthefish at 9:01 AM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
I'm in HR. The company I work for has separate policies for jury duty, bereavement time, parental time, and sick time, and we also have un banked un accrued flex vacation. I know flex vacation is controversial. It works for me, but there are legitimate arguments against it.
The only thing I feel very passionately about is separate and distinct types of time off.
If you are sick, be sick. If you're taking a lot of sick time, we'll all (your manager and HR) see it and will proactively reach out about what's going on, do you need additional support, here is how short term leave and FMLA work so you have pay and job protection while you're dealing with your situation. If it all gets booked as PTO, you may as well be having a grand time backpacking Thailand and we'd never know you're having a severe mental health crisis (or whatever) that you need support with. My company will also send you a care package with soup.
Same with bereavement. You book bereavement time and we have other things we do. Reach out. Send flowers to a memorial service. Share our grief support line with you and your family members for help in coping with loss or trauma, during times where it's needed. During the height of covid one of our regional locations had 20 employees separately dealing with family member loss at the same time. Company provided a counselor to the group.
I know a lot of people get het up about HR not being your friend, and while that is often true and true in certain situations, when you work for someplace where people are trying to do a good job, there's a utility to asking for help.
posted by phunniemee at 9:06 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
The only thing I feel very passionately about is separate and distinct types of time off.
If you are sick, be sick. If you're taking a lot of sick time, we'll all (your manager and HR) see it and will proactively reach out about what's going on, do you need additional support, here is how short term leave and FMLA work so you have pay and job protection while you're dealing with your situation. If it all gets booked as PTO, you may as well be having a grand time backpacking Thailand and we'd never know you're having a severe mental health crisis (or whatever) that you need support with. My company will also send you a care package with soup.
Same with bereavement. You book bereavement time and we have other things we do. Reach out. Send flowers to a memorial service. Share our grief support line with you and your family members for help in coping with loss or trauma, during times where it's needed. During the height of covid one of our regional locations had 20 employees separately dealing with family member loss at the same time. Company provided a counselor to the group.
I know a lot of people get het up about HR not being your friend, and while that is often true and true in certain situations, when you work for someplace where people are trying to do a good job, there's a utility to asking for help.
posted by phunniemee at 9:06 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
I'm quite happy with my current setup, which is:
- PTO days to be used as vacation/sick leave combined, but if you max out the amount of PTO you can roll over per year (which is generous, you can roll over up to a year of PTO), the extra goes into a sick day bank that's reserved against any future short term disability leaves
- Three "flexible holidays" per year on top of PTO in recognition that not everyone celebrates the specific office-closure holidays set forth by our government and workplace, and there should be some flexibility to take off the cultural/religious holidays that are important to you without eating into your vacation time. (For those of us who don't really have anything like that, they basically just serve as bonus PTO, which I'm not mad about.)
- PTO accrues per month, and starts at 17 days per year for a new hire, moving up to 30 days per year for a 15-year employee, with an increase every few years.
- There's no official allowance for vacation debt but it's generally expected that a manager will work with you to the greatest extent possible for flexibility. I've also known various people who had informal special arrangements allowing them to e.g. informally roll over additional PTO such that they could take a long trip to India or Australia every other year to spend a couple of months with overseas family, even though technically I suspect if anyone did the math the numbers wouldn't quite add up.
One interesting thing that was an option at an old workplace that I haven't seen anywhere else was an option to "buy" up to a week of extra PTO at the start of each year beyond the standard allowance. It wasn't really any kind of net financial benefit, but did mean that if you were say one of those people who knew you were always going to be travelling right up to the edge of your PTO allowance, you could ensure yourself a bit of wiggle room so your boss couldn't get mad at you for running out of PTO. If you didn't use up the extra PTO by end of the year it got paid back out to you in your end-of-year paycheck.
I would definitely take into account the needs of both disabled people (e.g., don't require a ton of paperwork and documentation of time off for medical reasons) and also people with family structures that aren't two-married-male-and-female-spouses-plus-kids - people have all kinds of caregiving obligations and if you're going to provide some flexibility in your leave processes to make sure people can care for their families, make sure that applies to all kinds of families.
posted by Stacey at 9:06 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
- PTO days to be used as vacation/sick leave combined, but if you max out the amount of PTO you can roll over per year (which is generous, you can roll over up to a year of PTO), the extra goes into a sick day bank that's reserved against any future short term disability leaves
- Three "flexible holidays" per year on top of PTO in recognition that not everyone celebrates the specific office-closure holidays set forth by our government and workplace, and there should be some flexibility to take off the cultural/religious holidays that are important to you without eating into your vacation time. (For those of us who don't really have anything like that, they basically just serve as bonus PTO, which I'm not mad about.)
- PTO accrues per month, and starts at 17 days per year for a new hire, moving up to 30 days per year for a 15-year employee, with an increase every few years.
- There's no official allowance for vacation debt but it's generally expected that a manager will work with you to the greatest extent possible for flexibility. I've also known various people who had informal special arrangements allowing them to e.g. informally roll over additional PTO such that they could take a long trip to India or Australia every other year to spend a couple of months with overseas family, even though technically I suspect if anyone did the math the numbers wouldn't quite add up.
One interesting thing that was an option at an old workplace that I haven't seen anywhere else was an option to "buy" up to a week of extra PTO at the start of each year beyond the standard allowance. It wasn't really any kind of net financial benefit, but did mean that if you were say one of those people who knew you were always going to be travelling right up to the edge of your PTO allowance, you could ensure yourself a bit of wiggle room so your boss couldn't get mad at you for running out of PTO. If you didn't use up the extra PTO by end of the year it got paid back out to you in your end-of-year paycheck.
I would definitely take into account the needs of both disabled people (e.g., don't require a ton of paperwork and documentation of time off for medical reasons) and also people with family structures that aren't two-married-male-and-female-spouses-plus-kids - people have all kinds of caregiving obligations and if you're going to provide some flexibility in your leave processes to make sure people can care for their families, make sure that applies to all kinds of families.
posted by Stacey at 9:06 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
Yep, everything Blast Hardcheese said, and big big big company culture to use it - in our yearly all-hands it was expressed that it was anticipated that employees would take minimum 4 weeks' leave per year (not including Summer Fridays) and that managers would be encouraging people to take at least one whole-week off, not just long weekends here and there. (And managers TOOK time off too, often at least one 10-14-day trip per year.) There was also a strong "OOO means OOO" policy; stuff just had to wait until you got back, and avoid answering emails/slacks while OOO.
And generally the policy for anything that was 1-2 days or less was "tell, don't ask". Just put it on your calendar and invite your manager and project managers, and advance notice wasn't really necessary unless it was in the middle of a go-live or something. We could use PTO in 2-hr blocks, and anything shorter than that just book to Admin or whatever, don't use PTO for telemed calls and unexpected school pick-ups.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:08 AM on March 14, 2024
And generally the policy for anything that was 1-2 days or less was "tell, don't ask". Just put it on your calendar and invite your manager and project managers, and advance notice wasn't really necessary unless it was in the middle of a go-live or something. We could use PTO in 2-hr blocks, and anything shorter than that just book to Admin or whatever, don't use PTO for telemed calls and unexpected school pick-ups.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:08 AM on March 14, 2024
After 3 years, a federal employee usually gets 160 hours vacation (accrued 6 hours pp, with an additional 4 at the end) and 104 hours sick time (accrued 4 hours pp). This seems reasonable to me.
"Unlimited" vacation/sick is extremely abusable by management, and, even if management is cool, it tends to lead to older/white/men taking more time off than...everyone not in those groups, who are overall more anxious about perception in the workplace and may not have the experience to know what "unlimited" really means.
Explicitly making it okay to use sick time to care for pets as well as dependents would be great. As it stands at my current workplace, a parent can use sick time to take their child to the doctor, but I can't use it to take my dog to the vet. I don't begrudge the parent, but these are equally important, semi-unpredictable, and nondiscretionary needs for a household (nooooobody goes to the vet for fun).
Your company may be too small to have a leave bank, but I would allow up to a week advanced vacation (so that new employees can have some kind of vacation, especially if they start near the holidays) and at least a couple of weeks of advanced sick time. If you're drafting a formal policy, I would also stick in the discretion to forgive the advanced sick time if the person has to leave the job for health reasons.
posted by praemunire at 9:08 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
"Unlimited" vacation/sick is extremely abusable by management, and, even if management is cool, it tends to lead to older/white/men taking more time off than...everyone not in those groups, who are overall more anxious about perception in the workplace and may not have the experience to know what "unlimited" really means.
Explicitly making it okay to use sick time to care for pets as well as dependents would be great. As it stands at my current workplace, a parent can use sick time to take their child to the doctor, but I can't use it to take my dog to the vet. I don't begrudge the parent, but these are equally important, semi-unpredictable, and nondiscretionary needs for a household (nooooobody goes to the vet for fun).
Your company may be too small to have a leave bank, but I would allow up to a week advanced vacation (so that new employees can have some kind of vacation, especially if they start near the holidays) and at least a couple of weeks of advanced sick time. If you're drafting a formal policy, I would also stick in the discretion to forgive the advanced sick time if the person has to leave the job for health reasons.
posted by praemunire at 9:08 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
Oh, yes. Have separate bereavement leave, ideally a week for immediate family members. Don't make people burn sick time. They may already have used up a lot of it caring for the dying relative.
posted by praemunire at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
For the love of dog, if you are in the US, structure it more like Euro countries, with generous amounts of time off that acknowledges people have family and plans whole plane rides away from the office. Spending 2 out of a meager 15 PTO days just on international flights alone is infantilizing. We work to live. It's not the other way around.
20 vacation days. To mollify US employers, you could combine them with sick days. Follow the rule of "how many working hours in this pay period?" and do not force salaried people to take PTO if they worked all their required hours. Let them roll over into the next calendar year, but cap the max rollover amount at something like 40 hours. Give the year's PTO on Jan 1 of each year. Accruing x hours per month prevents people from taking time off early in the year. Allow either vacation debt or unpaid leave to take longer vacations / time off earlier in the year.
Provide 40 hours for jury duty. If a person selected for a jury has to serve longer, figure it out in their favor. They did not choose jury service and are legally required to complete it. I ran up against a paid 3 days of jury duty when I was selected for a two-week trial. I made a case and they changed the policy. My choices were to go unpaid or to be in contempt as a no-show and risk jail.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 9:14 AM on March 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
20 vacation days. To mollify US employers, you could combine them with sick days. Follow the rule of "how many working hours in this pay period?" and do not force salaried people to take PTO if they worked all their required hours. Let them roll over into the next calendar year, but cap the max rollover amount at something like 40 hours. Give the year's PTO on Jan 1 of each year. Accruing x hours per month prevents people from taking time off early in the year. Allow either vacation debt or unpaid leave to take longer vacations / time off earlier in the year.
Provide 40 hours for jury duty. If a person selected for a jury has to serve longer, figure it out in their favor. They did not choose jury service and are legally required to complete it. I ran up against a paid 3 days of jury duty when I was selected for a two-week trial. I made a case and they changed the policy. My choices were to go unpaid or to be in contempt as a no-show and risk jail.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 9:14 AM on March 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
Let them roll over into the next calendar year, but cap the max rollover amount at something like 40 hours.
Pretty sure this would be illegal under California state law. Similarly, state laws concerning your obligations re: jury duty will vary. So, whatever you do, run that policy by an employment lawyer for the state(s) you operate in first.
posted by praemunire at 9:24 AM on March 14, 2024 [5 favorites]
Pretty sure this would be illegal under California state law. Similarly, state laws concerning your obligations re: jury duty will vary. So, whatever you do, run that policy by an employment lawyer for the state(s) you operate in first.
posted by praemunire at 9:24 AM on March 14, 2024 [5 favorites]
I work for a hospital system so we don't close for federal holidays - instead we get extra PTO days that we can use on those days or any other time. At first it seems not great, but in practice it works really well, especially for the non-TG/xmas holidays - people with school-age kids take the day off, empty-nesters like myself opt for a quiet workday to catch up on projects, newer employees have a little more of a PTO cushion right out of the gate, etc.
posted by headnsouth at 9:29 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by headnsouth at 9:29 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
If your company can handle it just give people the week off between X-mas and New Year on top of PTO or Vacation. Almost nothing gets done that week and it feels like such a nice recognition.
I miss that treat in my current role.
I also worked for large company that had a Summer Friday policy where everyone got to choose 7 Fridays between Memorial Day and Labor Day for some long weekends. Our team worked it out so there was always coverage. It was a such a treat!
Finally, maybe add in a sabbatical policy for staff whi have been there 8-10 years. I worked for an org that gave people 6 weeks sabbatical at year ten. And while I didn't work there long enough to earn it. It was still a nice idea
posted by brookeb at 9:30 AM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
I miss that treat in my current role.
I also worked for large company that had a Summer Friday policy where everyone got to choose 7 Fridays between Memorial Day and Labor Day for some long weekends. Our team worked it out so there was always coverage. It was a such a treat!
Finally, maybe add in a sabbatical policy for staff whi have been there 8-10 years. I worked for an org that gave people 6 weeks sabbatical at year ten. And while I didn't work there long enough to earn it. It was still a nice idea
posted by brookeb at 9:30 AM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
here is what ours is - government adjacent entity
Both annual and sick/enforced leave accrued per pay period. 8 hours a month sick. Annual depends on longevity. Begins acrueing with first payroll. Must use half of your accrual per fiscal year - so if you get 12 days you must use 6 and the rest can carry over.
12 days up to 5 years
15 up to 10 years
20 beyond 10 years
Can accrue up to 480 hours of sick, no set amount has to be used by end of the fiscal year, you just stop earning if you hit that threshold. May be shared with others on approval. May be used for yourself, immediate family including parents, siblings and children. Up to 3 days can be used for extended family bereavement.
Can accrue up to 240 hours of annual.
Payroll must be "approved", but the process is very relaxed and noone is turned down unless under extreme circumstances. THIS IS PROBABLY THE BEST PART. Under most circumstances, if you don't have leave to take, you take unpaid. But with the generous accrual and the sharing policy that very rarely happens unless you are very new.
Also have 13 paid holidays, which makes it feel like even more vacation.
I came from a reasonable policy in the private sector, but this is SO MUCH better.
posted by domino at 9:31 AM on March 14, 2024
Both annual and sick/enforced leave accrued per pay period. 8 hours a month sick. Annual depends on longevity. Begins acrueing with first payroll. Must use half of your accrual per fiscal year - so if you get 12 days you must use 6 and the rest can carry over.
12 days up to 5 years
15 up to 10 years
20 beyond 10 years
Can accrue up to 480 hours of sick, no set amount has to be used by end of the fiscal year, you just stop earning if you hit that threshold. May be shared with others on approval. May be used for yourself, immediate family including parents, siblings and children. Up to 3 days can be used for extended family bereavement.
Can accrue up to 240 hours of annual.
Payroll must be "approved", but the process is very relaxed and noone is turned down unless under extreme circumstances. THIS IS PROBABLY THE BEST PART. Under most circumstances, if you don't have leave to take, you take unpaid. But with the generous accrual and the sharing policy that very rarely happens unless you are very new.
Also have 13 paid holidays, which makes it feel like even more vacation.
I came from a reasonable policy in the private sector, but this is SO MUCH better.
posted by domino at 9:31 AM on March 14, 2024
Best answer: Policies that give more PTO after N years are kind of silly and seem designed to discourage people from switching jobs. That might be a benefit to a particular employer if they can hold their employees hostage because their other options will require them to give up their current level of PTO, but those employees can still leave to an employer that offers generous PTO for all employees — so be that employer. There's really no reason to offer more or less PTO to employees based on how long they've been there. Just give everyone the same.
posted by ssg at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2024 [8 favorites]
posted by ssg at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2024 [8 favorites]
Just looked into our policies here and we do have a separate bereavement leave. Which is would seem pointless under unlimited PTO, but I think the intention is that it is NOT subject to managerial approval or business needs, and I think that HR might reach out with various supports if it is taken. I can't imagine anyone here being enough of a jerk to give someone a hard time about bereavement leave but I read enough Ask A Manager to know they're out there...
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:38 AM on March 14, 2024
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:38 AM on March 14, 2024
Similar to the wellness day mentioned above, I love when a company allows 8 hours maybe every quarter to allow employees to volunteer somewhere.
posted by hydra77 at 9:39 AM on March 14, 2024
posted by hydra77 at 9:39 AM on March 14, 2024
Seconding sabbatical, but I think 10 years is too long for the mutual benefit to kick in--in other words I'm skeptical a 10 year sabbatical will lead to the employee retention that serves both employer and employee.
I have friends whose workplace includes a three month sabbatical every five years, and having worked in a lot of workplaces, I think it's the kind of hit that most work environments can absorb once in awhile. And what a wonderful thing to be able to provide someone, three months to just live their life without worrying about losing money.
posted by kensington314 at 9:49 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
I have friends whose workplace includes a three month sabbatical every five years, and having worked in a lot of workplaces, I think it's the kind of hit that most work environments can absorb once in awhile. And what a wonderful thing to be able to provide someone, three months to just live their life without worrying about losing money.
posted by kensington314 at 9:49 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
Also would be good to allow people to donate sick leave to one another. I worked somewhere that allowed you to cash out vacation. There are differing opinions on whether that is good or bad, but I'll say that it was extremely helpful to me when I had to have my cat's . . . um . . . urethra shortened if you know what I mean.
posted by kensington314 at 9:51 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by kensington314 at 9:51 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
Maybe this doesn't matter as much for a very small organization where there won't be conflicting vacation needs, but one of the key elements that gets left out a lot is the procedures and approval stuff. Everyone concentrates on how many days, and not on how they know when they get to actually use them.
Encourage maximum flexibility, of course, in allowing managers to approve and employees to take vacation at the last moment, but if you expect conflicting requests also provide for specific deadlines like 'initial decisions on vacation for peak summer travel (July or August) will be made by date Y, based on requests received by date X' -- and make those pretty far in advance so people can buy plane tickets before they get stupid expensive and make plans with family. Then if someone comes in after X and asks for time off in the summer, they can still have it, but only if it won't conflict with already approved vacation. Be clear about how conflicting requests that come in before X will be dealt with (lottery, seniority, rotating from year-to-year, whatever).
If you think it is ever plausible that you will ask an employee to cancel a previously scheduled vacation, first of all, don't ever ask an employee to cancel a previously scheduled vacation, but second of all, have a very, very clear plan on how they will be compensated for any and all costs associated with cancelling and rescheduling that vacation.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:52 AM on March 14, 2024 [5 favorites]
Encourage maximum flexibility, of course, in allowing managers to approve and employees to take vacation at the last moment, but if you expect conflicting requests also provide for specific deadlines like 'initial decisions on vacation for peak summer travel (July or August) will be made by date Y, based on requests received by date X' -- and make those pretty far in advance so people can buy plane tickets before they get stupid expensive and make plans with family. Then if someone comes in after X and asks for time off in the summer, they can still have it, but only if it won't conflict with already approved vacation. Be clear about how conflicting requests that come in before X will be dealt with (lottery, seniority, rotating from year-to-year, whatever).
If you think it is ever plausible that you will ask an employee to cancel a previously scheduled vacation, first of all, don't ever ask an employee to cancel a previously scheduled vacation, but second of all, have a very, very clear plan on how they will be compensated for any and all costs associated with cancelling and rescheduling that vacation.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:52 AM on March 14, 2024 [5 favorites]
Dang. I'm shocked by how stingy some of these "good" PTO policies are. But I guess I'm lucky to have worked for progressive non-profits.
At my current job (smallish non-profit with 13 FT and 4 PT employees). Time accrues on a monthly basis. No firm policy about vacation "debt" but up to one work week is no problem.
New hires start with 15 days of vacation, and that goes to 20 days at 5 years.
3 Personal Days
12 sick days, but in practice it's whatever you need
14 paid holidays
Not included in these totals: our office is closed the two weeks before Labor Day, and the week between Christmas and New Year. Some of us may have to work during those times (I'm a fundraiser... so always have some work to do between Christmas and New Years), so we get flex time.
posted by kimdog at 9:58 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
At my current job (smallish non-profit with 13 FT and 4 PT employees). Time accrues on a monthly basis. No firm policy about vacation "debt" but up to one work week is no problem.
New hires start with 15 days of vacation, and that goes to 20 days at 5 years.
3 Personal Days
12 sick days, but in practice it's whatever you need
14 paid holidays
Not included in these totals: our office is closed the two weeks before Labor Day, and the week between Christmas and New Year. Some of us may have to work during those times (I'm a fundraiser... so always have some work to do between Christmas and New Years), so we get flex time.
posted by kimdog at 9:58 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
I've never heard of a place that does this, but my ideal is mandatory PTO where you are required to use your PTO every year - there's no rollover.
To match this, there's also no accrual - you get all your PTO upfront. And you have enough PTO (e.g. 4wks at least) that you aren't trying to save it up for a larger time off.
Finally, new hires get the same PTO, none of this "only 1-2wks the first first, then more later". It is nice to have tiers for long-term employees, e.g. increase from 4wks to 6wks after 5yrs, etc.
Another great idea that is common in practice for many jobs but "undocumented" is unlimited 1-day PTOs. E.g. you've got stuff happening so you take a day off to deal with things but don't bother reporting it. Your boss doesn't care b/c you're still getting your work done. Sometimes known as as "comp time" (e.g. you worked hard over the last weekend, so the boss tells you to take a long weekend off next to make up for it).
posted by jpeacock at 10:05 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
To match this, there's also no accrual - you get all your PTO upfront. And you have enough PTO (e.g. 4wks at least) that you aren't trying to save it up for a larger time off.
Finally, new hires get the same PTO, none of this "only 1-2wks the first first, then more later". It is nice to have tiers for long-term employees, e.g. increase from 4wks to 6wks after 5yrs, etc.
Another great idea that is common in practice for many jobs but "undocumented" is unlimited 1-day PTOs. E.g. you've got stuff happening so you take a day off to deal with things but don't bother reporting it. Your boss doesn't care b/c you're still getting your work done. Sometimes known as as "comp time" (e.g. you worked hard over the last weekend, so the boss tells you to take a long weekend off next to make up for it).
posted by jpeacock at 10:05 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
Policies that give more PTO after N years are kind of silly and seem designed to discourage people from switching jobs.
PTO is a form of comp! Most people do, in fact, get raises over their tenure with an employer. You want to start with a humane baseline, of course.
posted by praemunire at 10:08 AM on March 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
PTO is a form of comp! Most people do, in fact, get raises over their tenure with an employer. You want to start with a humane baseline, of course.
posted by praemunire at 10:08 AM on March 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
If you do unlimited time off, please set vacation use minimums. At my firm, we have unlimited time off and it's on managers to enforce leave for their teams, not everyone is great at it.
I don't often raise the financial services industry as a winner, but mandatory leave (2weeks straight, basically to uncover any insider trading) was really really nice. I'm regularly envious of friends who get Christmas- New Years off, it lessens pressures quite a bit when everyone is off.
posted by larthegreat at 10:43 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
I don't often raise the financial services industry as a winner, but mandatory leave (2weeks straight, basically to uncover any insider trading) was really really nice. I'm regularly envious of friends who get Christmas- New Years off, it lessens pressures quite a bit when everyone is off.
posted by larthegreat at 10:43 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
You might look to various European countries as to how minimum leave is structured. For example in Poland everyone in employment has to take a two week chunk in one go every year, and maximum rollover is equal to one year's holiday allotment (generally 27 days mandatory minimum), with HR chasing people down to schedule their rolled over time during the next year. Separate from comp time, which officially or unofficially tends to get handled as "two late evenings equal a day off", with the ability to take comp time in hourly chunks if preferred, as well as "work off" personal appointments during the working day by staying late at any point in the next month or so.
And yeah, this is definitely separate from sick time because people don't control their immune systems and 6 sick days as mentioned by some people above isn't enough for one bad bout of Covid or flu, let alone the barrage that is your kid's first three months in daycare. I think the last few years taught us all that minimising illness transmission in the workplace is worth it.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 10:53 AM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
And yeah, this is definitely separate from sick time because people don't control their immune systems and 6 sick days as mentioned by some people above isn't enough for one bad bout of Covid or flu, let alone the barrage that is your kid's first three months in daycare. I think the last few years taught us all that minimising illness transmission in the workplace is worth it.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 10:53 AM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
One thing to think about is how commonly asked for days get approved. If you work in a place where people are routinely working holidays, you’ll need to find a way to solve conflicts.
DO NOT base this on seniority. This only results in resentment among co-workers. If someone has been with the company 9 years, and the next person has been there for 10, and they both want July 4th off every year, one person is going to be perpetually frustrated.
The best system I have experienced is to allow people to submit a ranked list of holidays they want off. Most conflicts can be resolved this way, by giving people their top 1 or 2 choices. On the rare occasion that you can’t make everyone happy, you’ll have to spread things around year by year.
posted by soy_renfield at 10:59 AM on March 14, 2024
DO NOT base this on seniority. This only results in resentment among co-workers. If someone has been with the company 9 years, and the next person has been there for 10, and they both want July 4th off every year, one person is going to be perpetually frustrated.
The best system I have experienced is to allow people to submit a ranked list of holidays they want off. Most conflicts can be resolved this way, by giving people their top 1 or 2 choices. On the rare occasion that you can’t make everyone happy, you’ll have to spread things around year by year.
posted by soy_renfield at 10:59 AM on March 14, 2024
I've had very few complaints with the following policy, which are specific to my country working for a large-ish multinational company:
* new hires start at 3 weeks of PTO, increasing up to 4 weeks after 2 years of service and 5 weeks after some number of years after (can't remember offhand). Plus the entire company gets the days between Christmas and New Years off as well; these days don't count against their PTO usage. This is effectively an additional 4 days of PTO.
* Folks can go "into debt" up to 5 days with the understanding that if they leave the company with a negative balance it will be deducted from their final paycheck.
* People start accumulating PTO on day 1, at the % of the year they are entitled to. (So if you have 3/4/5 weeks vacation, you start accumulating PTO at 6/8/10% of hours worked). There is a limit on how much can be "rolled over" year over year, and as a result people are very strongly encouraged by the company to take their leave so they don't lose it.
* 10 days paid sick leave per year, tracked. Up until recently there was also an additional 10 days for COVID reasons, but this was dropped either this year or last (can't recall). If need be, there's unpaid leave after after paid sick days has been used.
* PTO and sick days are completely separate, one has no bearing on the other.
* Everything is fairly flexible as long as people are responsible adults and are not clearly trying to abuse the system.
posted by cgg at 11:00 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
* new hires start at 3 weeks of PTO, increasing up to 4 weeks after 2 years of service and 5 weeks after some number of years after (can't remember offhand). Plus the entire company gets the days between Christmas and New Years off as well; these days don't count against their PTO usage. This is effectively an additional 4 days of PTO.
* Folks can go "into debt" up to 5 days with the understanding that if they leave the company with a negative balance it will be deducted from their final paycheck.
* People start accumulating PTO on day 1, at the % of the year they are entitled to. (So if you have 3/4/5 weeks vacation, you start accumulating PTO at 6/8/10% of hours worked). There is a limit on how much can be "rolled over" year over year, and as a result people are very strongly encouraged by the company to take their leave so they don't lose it.
* 10 days paid sick leave per year, tracked. Up until recently there was also an additional 10 days for COVID reasons, but this was dropped either this year or last (can't recall). If need be, there's unpaid leave after after paid sick days has been used.
* PTO and sick days are completely separate, one has no bearing on the other.
* Everything is fairly flexible as long as people are responsible adults and are not clearly trying to abuse the system.
posted by cgg at 11:00 AM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
I'm amazed how little sick time people consider good! 6-10 per year?? 12 minimum -- 1 day per month accrual. Starting with at least a day or two in the bank is kind, people do get sick or injured during their first month of work sometimes.
3 weeks per year vacation, 1.25 days accrual per month, minimum. Two years' accrual is the max before use-it-or-lose-it. The problem with unlimited is some people take too much and some people don't take enough, the use-it-or-lose-it is encouragement to actually take a fucking break sometimes.
Bereavement leave, jury duty, and COVID leave don't count against banks.
My current job has the week between Christmas and New Years off without charging leave banks, and that is wonderful, especially when you have kids.
posted by biblioPHL at 11:25 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
3 weeks per year vacation, 1.25 days accrual per month, minimum. Two years' accrual is the max before use-it-or-lose-it. The problem with unlimited is some people take too much and some people don't take enough, the use-it-or-lose-it is encouragement to actually take a fucking break sometimes.
Bereavement leave, jury duty, and COVID leave don't count against banks.
My current job has the week between Christmas and New Years off without charging leave banks, and that is wonderful, especially when you have kids.
posted by biblioPHL at 11:25 AM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
I agree with all of the comments about flexibility and even unlimited PTO. My current situation is 2 weeks PTO (vacation and sick leave in the same bucket) plus 12 bank holidays since that's the world I work in. Our PTO doesn't carry over, so it's use it or lose it. But in practice, it's not so bad considering the hybrid work environment that already allows for much flexibility.
posted by emelenjr at 11:49 AM on March 14, 2024
posted by emelenjr at 11:49 AM on March 14, 2024
Combined sick leave and vacation leads to abominations like me, a decade ago, toughing out an illness in the office that we later realized was probably pertussis, because I had a big trip planned. I’d urge you not to do that.
In my current job we have almost the opposite problem — retirees can exchange unused sick leave for months of post-retirement,-pre-Medicare health insurance. This encourages everyone to spend vacation (which is fairly generous) when they are sick or on FMLA. This can have some negative consequences for mental health, I think.
posted by eirias at 12:17 PM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
In my current job we have almost the opposite problem — retirees can exchange unused sick leave for months of post-retirement,-pre-Medicare health insurance. This encourages everyone to spend vacation (which is fairly generous) when they are sick or on FMLA. This can have some negative consequences for mental health, I think.
posted by eirias at 12:17 PM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
I not a fan of unlimited PTO. In my view this sounds good on paper for the employee, but the benefits are really to the firm. I think a set (but generous) PTO policy is better. In my view it kinder to have employees to be entitled to their PTO allocation rather than have employees guess if they are taking too much or too little PTO in comparison to others. Instead I would recommend the option to buy or sell PTO during open enrollment. And of course, cashing out unpaid PTO at the end of employment can provide a welcome financial cushion.
posted by oceano at 12:30 PM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by oceano at 12:30 PM on March 14, 2024 [3 favorites]
One feature of my current employer that I love is that Comp Time gets added to your Annual Leave (better name than vacation, I think), and any Annual Leave you have over a certain threshold at the end of the year rolls over into Sick Leave. You can then bank unlimited Sick Leave for early retirement. I had a chunk at the start of my career where I accrued a ton of Comp Time, so now I have like 3 months early retirement already in the bank after working here for 10 years.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:31 PM on March 14, 2024
posted by Rock Steady at 12:31 PM on March 14, 2024
Consider a policy specifically around medical appointments and flexibility more on the level of hours or half days for those. My family member's employer won't let employees come in a half hour "late" for instance after a morning dentist appointment; they're forced to take a half day of leave, either PTO or sick.
posted by knile at 12:35 PM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by knile at 12:35 PM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
I've had unused PTO paid out annually at past companies. You could retain up to 100 hrs as roll over + any new PTO accrued. This helped the company out by cleaning up the financial obligations and also gave staff flexibility.
posted by beaning at 12:40 PM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by beaning at 12:40 PM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
I'm in the UK, so a different kettle of fish really, but since you asked - I've just started a new job and get 36 days of annual leave (ie. paid holiday). In addition to that we get 25 and 26 December off, and 1 and 2 January, so effectively 40 days off per year. It's compulsory to use three days of your annual leave for the days between Christmas and New Year, so once you roll in the weekends around the same time, you basically get 10 days straight in the middle of winter when the organisation is closed down and nobody is working.
In the UK, it's a requirement that sick leave is separate from annual leave. And thank God, I had no idea there were places they were combined, that sounds awful! Not only are you sick, but every day you're off sick you lose a day of holiday?! That sounds like a recipe for misery, and for chronic presenteeism, with sick people coming in to work and making everyone else sicker.
Sick pay entitlement is a bit complicated, but it's measured in weeks, not days. At the very start you're entitled to two weeks full pay and two weeks half pay, and it increases with longer service.
posted by penguin pie at 1:04 PM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
In the UK, it's a requirement that sick leave is separate from annual leave. And thank God, I had no idea there were places they were combined, that sounds awful! Not only are you sick, but every day you're off sick you lose a day of holiday?! That sounds like a recipe for misery, and for chronic presenteeism, with sick people coming in to work and making everyone else sicker.
Sick pay entitlement is a bit complicated, but it's measured in weeks, not days. At the very start you're entitled to two weeks full pay and two weeks half pay, and it increases with longer service.
posted by penguin pie at 1:04 PM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
It's ridiculous to me that people have to work somewhere for five years to get a bump up in vacation time/PTO. In this day and age how many people actually stay with an employer for five or ten years? I say increase PTO by one day every year.
posted by SyraCarol at 2:15 PM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by SyraCarol at 2:15 PM on March 14, 2024 [2 favorites]
Assume there is always going to be one person who will try to game or break or abuse the system and also build some protections in for that. Otherwise people correctly using the system will get upset when someone doesn't and you will have no easy way to correct it.
You should also look at what software you will be using to track leave and see what limitations it has, or make sure the one you pick does what you want and is easy to use. Working around limitations of a cheaper system can be a real pain for everyone.
posted by meepmeow at 3:08 PM on March 14, 2024
You should also look at what software you will be using to track leave and see what limitations it has, or make sure the one you pick does what you want and is easy to use. Working around limitations of a cheaper system can be a real pain for everyone.
posted by meepmeow at 3:08 PM on March 14, 2024
Sick Leave:
- Separated from PTO. We can take a full five consecutive days without a doctor's note. Anything after five days requires a conversation with HR and short term disability / long term disability / FMLA.
- Sick leave can be used for illness or medical appointments for ourselves OR for a dependent in our household, either full or half day. This has been a boon as I don't have burn 1/2 day of PTO because my kid has a dental appointment.
PTO:
- 5 Personal days. They can be taken at any time for any reason. Use or lose it, we are encouraged to take this time off first before dipping into vacation time.
- Vacation time accrues bi-weekly. The total amount based on length of time at the company. I am maxed out at 25 days. I think the starting time is 15 days.
- We can borrow against future accrual during the calendar year.
- Functionally also use or lose it (no roll over), but we are permitted to make an off-the-books arrangement with our manager if circumstances mean we will not be able to use all our time off by year's end, with the expectation is that we take the time off by the end of the first quarter of the new year.
- We are encouraged to take at least 2 consecutive weeks off at some point during the year.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:52 PM on March 14, 2024
- Separated from PTO. We can take a full five consecutive days without a doctor's note. Anything after five days requires a conversation with HR and short term disability / long term disability / FMLA.
- Sick leave can be used for illness or medical appointments for ourselves OR for a dependent in our household, either full or half day. This has been a boon as I don't have burn 1/2 day of PTO because my kid has a dental appointment.
PTO:
- 5 Personal days. They can be taken at any time for any reason. Use or lose it, we are encouraged to take this time off first before dipping into vacation time.
- Vacation time accrues bi-weekly. The total amount based on length of time at the company. I am maxed out at 25 days. I think the starting time is 15 days.
- We can borrow against future accrual during the calendar year.
- Functionally also use or lose it (no roll over), but we are permitted to make an off-the-books arrangement with our manager if circumstances mean we will not be able to use all our time off by year's end, with the expectation is that we take the time off by the end of the first quarter of the new year.
- We are encouraged to take at least 2 consecutive weeks off at some point during the year.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:52 PM on March 14, 2024
I’m in Australia and work for a university. I get 30 combined sick/ carers days a year. I can take 3 in a row before needing a medical certificate. It resets each year but there is some sort of formula if someone has been there for years and years and needs more leave.
I get 20 days a year annual leave which accrues if it is unused. We shut down over the Christmas period. The university provides 3 extra annual leave days off and with public holidays, weekends and 3 of my own annual leave days this gives me 2 weeks off.
I also have access to at least 26 weeks parental leave, going up to 32 weeks if I’ve worked there over a certain amount of time.
We also have access to bereavement leave, domestic violence leave, cultural leave, study leave, gender confirmation leave and probably more as required.
posted by poxandplague at 7:35 PM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
I get 20 days a year annual leave which accrues if it is unused. We shut down over the Christmas period. The university provides 3 extra annual leave days off and with public holidays, weekends and 3 of my own annual leave days this gives me 2 weeks off.
I also have access to at least 26 weeks parental leave, going up to 32 weeks if I’ve worked there over a certain amount of time.
We also have access to bereavement leave, domestic violence leave, cultural leave, study leave, gender confirmation leave and probably more as required.
posted by poxandplague at 7:35 PM on March 14, 2024 [1 favorite]
20 days vacation - they accrue over the years but cap out at a certain point
2 weeks of sick days + unlimited covid days
5 Floating holidays
Close between Christmas and New Years (and be paid)
posted by Toddles at 8:25 PM on March 14, 2024
2 weeks of sick days + unlimited covid days
5 Floating holidays
Close between Christmas and New Years (and be paid)
posted by Toddles at 8:25 PM on March 14, 2024
When I worked for the (national level) government, I thought the offerings were pretty good.
- Holiday leave - 20 days per year, plus paid time off for Christmas/New Year close-down. Accrues on each pay date, rolls over indefinitely, but if you accumulate eight weeks, you are 'encouraged' to take leave and, if you don't, may be forced to. Pretty generous about going into leave debt, but not encouraged. If you leave, you get all this paid out.
- Personal leave - kinda complicated, divided up into sick leave (medical certificate required for over three days), compassionate leave, bereavement leave etc, but around 15-20 days per year. Pretty generous about going into leave debt, but not encouraged. Accrues on each pay date, rolls over indefinitely but, if you leave, you don't get it paid out (when I left I had 11 months sick leave available :-( )
- Flex leave - if you work over the minimum hours, the extra hours you work accrue as flex leave but you can only accrue about 10 days and you can take it off in small chunks or all at once or combine with holiday leave (manager level and above didn't get this). A lot of people use this as a back-door way of getting eg a 9-day fortnight, although this is officially not encouraged. If you leave, you don't get it paid out.
- Religious/cultural leave - kind of vague, but no problem taking it as long as you can describe what the event/significance of that day is.
- Study leave - not strictly defined, but awarded on a case-by-case basis as long as it's relevant to job role or possible future roles. Also includes paying for the study itself (ranges from one-day courses up to degrees and all are fine). If there is something you have to have for your role, it's done on paid time and paid for.
- Parental leave - legally required, minimum of 26 weeks and flexible so you can eg take twice the time at half the pay.
- Long service leave (legally mandated) - 3 months leave after 10 years service and again every 10 years. Kind of weird, because it's in weeks not days, so taking a week off (5 days) debits your long service by 7 days. If you leave, you get this paid out.
I feel like there was more but that's more or less it. Pretty good, but not amazing by Australian standards. I think universities etc do better. If I was designing something from the ground up (and didn't have to deal with unions) I'd be inclined to make the system as simple as possible. I would rather give someone a few extra days paid time off than deal with the complexity and arguments that a system like I described above brings with it.
posted by dg at 10:40 PM on March 14, 2024
- Holiday leave - 20 days per year, plus paid time off for Christmas/New Year close-down. Accrues on each pay date, rolls over indefinitely, but if you accumulate eight weeks, you are 'encouraged' to take leave and, if you don't, may be forced to. Pretty generous about going into leave debt, but not encouraged. If you leave, you get all this paid out.
- Personal leave - kinda complicated, divided up into sick leave (medical certificate required for over three days), compassionate leave, bereavement leave etc, but around 15-20 days per year. Pretty generous about going into leave debt, but not encouraged. Accrues on each pay date, rolls over indefinitely but, if you leave, you don't get it paid out (when I left I had 11 months sick leave available :-( )
- Flex leave - if you work over the minimum hours, the extra hours you work accrue as flex leave but you can only accrue about 10 days and you can take it off in small chunks or all at once or combine with holiday leave (manager level and above didn't get this). A lot of people use this as a back-door way of getting eg a 9-day fortnight, although this is officially not encouraged. If you leave, you don't get it paid out.
- Religious/cultural leave - kind of vague, but no problem taking it as long as you can describe what the event/significance of that day is.
- Study leave - not strictly defined, but awarded on a case-by-case basis as long as it's relevant to job role or possible future roles. Also includes paying for the study itself (ranges from one-day courses up to degrees and all are fine). If there is something you have to have for your role, it's done on paid time and paid for.
- Parental leave - legally required, minimum of 26 weeks and flexible so you can eg take twice the time at half the pay.
- Long service leave (legally mandated) - 3 months leave after 10 years service and again every 10 years. Kind of weird, because it's in weeks not days, so taking a week off (5 days) debits your long service by 7 days. If you leave, you get this paid out.
I feel like there was more but that's more or less it. Pretty good, but not amazing by Australian standards. I think universities etc do better. If I was designing something from the ground up (and didn't have to deal with unions) I'd be inclined to make the system as simple as possible. I would rather give someone a few extra days paid time off than deal with the complexity and arguments that a system like I described above brings with it.
posted by dg at 10:40 PM on March 14, 2024
My current workplace requires two weeks notice for taking a vacation day. Don’t do that.
A previous workplace required calling in every morning you were taking a sick day. This was before FMLA so I was using sick days for maternity leave. Don’t do this because calling in every day for weeks is pointless when you know you'll be out for weeks.
A lot of the previous comments mention things being up to your manager’s discretion. Remember that managers aren’t impartial and if there are favorites or the manager is a jerk, your system could be not great. There should be some oversight.
If you’re in a workplace that can’t hire a replacement until the previous person leaving/retiring has used all their banked vacation time, this could be a significant hardship to the people who are still there and trying to do the same jobs with one less person for weeks/months. Try to find a way to make this work well for both the remaining employees and the person leaving.
posted by sciencegeek at 2:41 AM on March 15, 2024
A previous workplace required calling in every morning you were taking a sick day. This was before FMLA so I was using sick days for maternity leave. Don’t do this because calling in every day for weeks is pointless when you know you'll be out for weeks.
A lot of the previous comments mention things being up to your manager’s discretion. Remember that managers aren’t impartial and if there are favorites or the manager is a jerk, your system could be not great. There should be some oversight.
If you’re in a workplace that can’t hire a replacement until the previous person leaving/retiring has used all their banked vacation time, this could be a significant hardship to the people who are still there and trying to do the same jobs with one less person for weeks/months. Try to find a way to make this work well for both the remaining employees and the person leaving.
posted by sciencegeek at 2:41 AM on March 15, 2024
Something I don't think I've seen mentioned - I like being able to take both sick leave and paid time off in half hour increments, so I can use sick leave for medical appointments, including routine appointments like therapy or PT, and the general PTO bucket for other fun and useful stuff that doesn't take a half day like running an errand or having lunch with a friend. Or, alternatively, you could set a formal policy that anything under 2 hours absence per day doesn't count against leave. I'm assuming here these are salaried roles that don't require coverage.
Something I like that we do at our workplace—where most of our PTO doesn't roll over into the next fiscal year—is that managers are frequently reminded during performance reviews and check-ins to check on how much PTO our reports are using. If someone is not on track to use up their PTO by end of fiscal year, we're asked by senior leadership/HR to work with them to create a plan to do so. We work to normalize taking time off for "staycations" and just taking a breather, so no one feels like they have to travel to justify using PTO.
posted by capricorn at 8:36 AM on March 15, 2024
Something I like that we do at our workplace—where most of our PTO doesn't roll over into the next fiscal year—is that managers are frequently reminded during performance reviews and check-ins to check on how much PTO our reports are using. If someone is not on track to use up their PTO by end of fiscal year, we're asked by senior leadership/HR to work with them to create a plan to do so. We work to normalize taking time off for "staycations" and just taking a breather, so no one feels like they have to travel to justify using PTO.
posted by capricorn at 8:36 AM on March 15, 2024
I typed out how much time off I get every year and deleted it: it's embarrassingly many days.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:57 PM on March 15, 2024
posted by wenestvedt at 3:57 PM on March 15, 2024
In Germany, the legal minimum vacation time is four weeks, more common for good jobs is six weeks.
Also six weeks of sick time at full pay, then at reduced pay (70%).
posted by starfishprime at 12:11 AM on March 20, 2024
Also six weeks of sick time at full pay, then at reduced pay (70%).
posted by starfishprime at 12:11 AM on March 20, 2024
« Older Fasting for Ramadan but can't focus at work. | Auto camera backup of a wall scheduler+replacement... Newer »
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:45 AM on March 14, 2024 [16 favorites]