Returning expat
March 5, 2024 7:44 AM Subscribe
Hi Mefi, I’m moving back to the UK temporarily after 11 years in France, and I wanted to see if anyone had any advice, more on the reverse culture shock side than the actual move, although if there’s something that isn’t obvious but is vital to share about an international move, feel free.
Thanks in advance, I’m moving from Paris to SE England, to an area I know well but is a very small town compared to Paris. I’ve got help for the actual move with transport. Also I have dual nationality for both countries so I don’t have to deal with visas.
Thanks in advance, I’m moving from Paris to SE England, to an area I know well but is a very small town compared to Paris. I’ve got help for the actual move with transport. Also I have dual nationality for both countries so I don’t have to deal with visas.
Best answer: I also live in a small town in SE England. I've been here for the past 15 years or so, and so I don't know what it's like to go away and return some time later. But here are some things I think you might notice are a bit different from when you left.
First, inflation in the last few years means food and drink have got significantly more expensive. You'll probably have to recalibrate your intuitive sense of what a pint or a weekly shop should cost. Second, lots of public services are creaking. It might be hard to find a GP or dentist that will have space for you. Some local authorities in the SE and beyond are having to declare bankruptcy and cut deep into services like libraries and leisure facilities. There are big waiting lists for some services like child mental health services. And third, the town you're coming back to may look a bit different. There is much more litter these days than I remember there being a few years ago. High streets will look quite different to how you remember them: lots of charity shops, vape shops and takeaways (and empty shops too), with fewer department stores or specialist shops.
There will obviously be exceptions to all of the above depending on where you are moving to. Some towns have weathered the storm better than others. But the above is my experience of living in a typical SE commuter belt town in the last few years.
posted by greycap at 8:54 AM on March 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
First, inflation in the last few years means food and drink have got significantly more expensive. You'll probably have to recalibrate your intuitive sense of what a pint or a weekly shop should cost. Second, lots of public services are creaking. It might be hard to find a GP or dentist that will have space for you. Some local authorities in the SE and beyond are having to declare bankruptcy and cut deep into services like libraries and leisure facilities. There are big waiting lists for some services like child mental health services. And third, the town you're coming back to may look a bit different. There is much more litter these days than I remember there being a few years ago. High streets will look quite different to how you remember them: lots of charity shops, vape shops and takeaways (and empty shops too), with fewer department stores or specialist shops.
There will obviously be exceptions to all of the above depending on where you are moving to. Some towns have weathered the storm better than others. But the above is my experience of living in a typical SE commuter belt town in the last few years.
posted by greycap at 8:54 AM on March 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Even if they haven’t lived elsewhere, find one friend who can be brutally honest with you when you’ve made a cultural mistake (yes, even when returning “home.”) I found it incredibly helpful when friends would say things like (or the equivalent to) “ you need to air out your bedroom in the morning, otherwise people will think you’re gross, even if you’re not.” “Don’t put up curtains on the window, you’ll get mold.” “People will think you’re pretentious if you offer them pâté and champagne on a Tuesday night, even though that feels normal.””those trousers/pants are too tight for a business meeting here.”
Obviously your examples and moments will be different, but I kind of needed someone to put things in absolutest terms at first (moving back to the USA from France and also from West Africa).
I was also struck by how much moved on without me in both my friends and families lives. They were used to me being away so I really needed to put in the effort to reintegrate myself into their lives.
posted by raccoon409 at 9:41 AM on March 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
Obviously your examples and moments will be different, but I kind of needed someone to put things in absolutest terms at first (moving back to the USA from France and also from West Africa).
I was also struck by how much moved on without me in both my friends and families lives. They were used to me being away so I really needed to put in the effort to reintegrate myself into their lives.
posted by raccoon409 at 9:41 AM on March 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
Best answer: @raccoon409 touches on an exile-returns truth: people, not just places and customs, both move on without you. Not only that, local friends and family may not show much interest in your overseas experiences and stories, which can feel like a lack of interest in the eleven-years older you. That possible lack of interest can feel disappointing. I'm in the US, but that happened to several expat friends who found old acquaintances had no curiosity about what living in another country was like; ways my expat friends had changed; or experiences and stories the expat hoped to share. It may be on you to exhibit curiosity and interest in what happened to everyone "back home" while you were gone and not much reciprocal interest going the other direction.
posted by Elsie at 10:08 AM on March 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by Elsie at 10:08 AM on March 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks all, great advice so far. I’ve got health issues so will be going private to ensure prompt care.
posted by ellieBOA at 11:03 AM on March 5, 2024
posted by ellieBOA at 11:03 AM on March 5, 2024
Brilliant summation by Pallas Athena, really encapsulates what I have been struggling to put into words since I moved back here recently from decades in Germany, where Things generally Work and the government has some sense of responsibility.
posted by runincircles at 11:56 AM on March 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by runincircles at 11:56 AM on March 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Start the process to find a private dentist as soon as you arrive. Don't wait till you need a check up or emergency treatment. Dentists local to me have closed their waiting lists.
posted by biffa at 12:00 PM on March 5, 2024
posted by biffa at 12:00 PM on March 5, 2024
Best answer: more on the reverse culture shock side
I've spent the past 18 months traveling the US, staying in each place 6-8ish weeks at a time. Most of them I've never been before, though I am currently in my hometown in my mother's house for the first time in almost 20 years.
In all cases, what serves me best is to approach all places with curiosity like I've never been there before and don't have a ton of idea what it ought to be like. My partner and I have come to enjoy (mostly) the differences each time - different store chains, different local coffee culture, exploring the different parts of town. It has really helped to approach my hometown this way, even though the changes are still shocking I try to frame them as interesting. This is an experience not a lot of people really get: the opportunity to deep dive into an old familiar place that is a whole different place and you are a whole different person.
Try to resist the internal and external pressure to be who you used to be there. Or to expect the place or the people to be exactly who they were. Leave room for all of you to be who you are now. And leave room for new - you might end up making some new friends and acquaintances, either from people you never knew before or ones you did but had no specific connection.
This is an adventure. And when you do go back to France, it'll be with a slightly different set of eyes. You'll know some new things about "going back".
I don't know if I have any advice about returning to a place that has, in some overarching ways, changed far for the worse. My life and travels have largely clung to the most liberal parts of the US; but my hometown is in one of Those States and, you know, there's some really fucking evil people around who are really fucking proud of it. I get to leave, is my mantra. It won't be too long.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:05 PM on March 5, 2024 [3 favorites]
I've spent the past 18 months traveling the US, staying in each place 6-8ish weeks at a time. Most of them I've never been before, though I am currently in my hometown in my mother's house for the first time in almost 20 years.
In all cases, what serves me best is to approach all places with curiosity like I've never been there before and don't have a ton of idea what it ought to be like. My partner and I have come to enjoy (mostly) the differences each time - different store chains, different local coffee culture, exploring the different parts of town. It has really helped to approach my hometown this way, even though the changes are still shocking I try to frame them as interesting. This is an experience not a lot of people really get: the opportunity to deep dive into an old familiar place that is a whole different place and you are a whole different person.
Try to resist the internal and external pressure to be who you used to be there. Or to expect the place or the people to be exactly who they were. Leave room for all of you to be who you are now. And leave room for new - you might end up making some new friends and acquaintances, either from people you never knew before or ones you did but had no specific connection.
This is an adventure. And when you do go back to France, it'll be with a slightly different set of eyes. You'll know some new things about "going back".
I don't know if I have any advice about returning to a place that has, in some overarching ways, changed far for the worse. My life and travels have largely clung to the most liberal parts of the US; but my hometown is in one of Those States and, you know, there's some really fucking evil people around who are really fucking proud of it. I get to leave, is my mantra. It won't be too long.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:05 PM on March 5, 2024 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Culture shock stuff:
When I returned to the UK from a few years in the Netherlands, the two things that stood out to me were the sheer naked commercialism - so much advertising, just BUY BUY BUY in your face all the time, so many brands in the supermarkets, so many inducements to buy MORE - and the number of signs telling you what you must and must not do, much of it stuff that adults shouldn't need to be told. Clean up after your dog, don't drop litter, wash your hands, don't assault the staff, no smoking, this is an alcohol control area.
I'd also got used to being able to buy good bread from the supermarket, and have found myself unable to adjust back to Chorleywood-process bread, which is all I can usually get from the supermarket here. (Some supermarkets, and some specific supermarket branches, are likely to be better than others in this respect.) I've had much better luck with real bakeries.
I had to get used to putting out the bins on a specific day again, no more taking bags of rubbish to the communal disposal point. Typically you'll have a wheelie bin for general rubbish and another one for recycling, plus something for kitchen waste, and the big bins will be collected on alternating weeks with the kitchen waste collected weekly - but all of that varies from council to council. I think a few places still have weekly collections of everything.
Don't forget you need a TV licence. I had a helpful nastygram from the TV licensing people ("To the Occupier") already waiting on the doormat when I moved into my rented house in the UK, I think because the house had sat empty for a bit.
This may have changed since I moved back (I returned roughly when you were leaving), but in case it hasn't: you may need more documentation than you expect when it comes to registering with a GP. Because I was returning from overseas, I had to prove not only that I lived in the catchment area but also that I had the right to free NHS treatment, which involved documents that were inconveniently in boxes at the time. Bank statements, birth certificate, passport, NHS number, tenancy agreement, all sorts. Just bring everything you can think of; better to have it and not need it, and all that.
Also, big city -> small town stuff: in my small SE England town, most shops are closed on Sundays and Mondays, there's early closing one day a week, and everything but the supermarket shuts somewhere between 4 and 6 even on a normal day. Oh, and it feels much darker at night than I was used to in the city, because there's less indirect lighting (the shops are shut so their lights are off) and because the actual street lighting is so-so (it's not on all night, and it can take a while for the council to get round to fixing a broken light).
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 8:40 AM on March 7, 2024
When I returned to the UK from a few years in the Netherlands, the two things that stood out to me were the sheer naked commercialism - so much advertising, just BUY BUY BUY in your face all the time, so many brands in the supermarkets, so many inducements to buy MORE - and the number of signs telling you what you must and must not do, much of it stuff that adults shouldn't need to be told. Clean up after your dog, don't drop litter, wash your hands, don't assault the staff, no smoking, this is an alcohol control area.
I'd also got used to being able to buy good bread from the supermarket, and have found myself unable to adjust back to Chorleywood-process bread, which is all I can usually get from the supermarket here. (Some supermarkets, and some specific supermarket branches, are likely to be better than others in this respect.) I've had much better luck with real bakeries.
I had to get used to putting out the bins on a specific day again, no more taking bags of rubbish to the communal disposal point. Typically you'll have a wheelie bin for general rubbish and another one for recycling, plus something for kitchen waste, and the big bins will be collected on alternating weeks with the kitchen waste collected weekly - but all of that varies from council to council. I think a few places still have weekly collections of everything.
Don't forget you need a TV licence. I had a helpful nastygram from the TV licensing people ("To the Occupier") already waiting on the doormat when I moved into my rented house in the UK, I think because the house had sat empty for a bit.
This may have changed since I moved back (I returned roughly when you were leaving), but in case it hasn't: you may need more documentation than you expect when it comes to registering with a GP. Because I was returning from overseas, I had to prove not only that I lived in the catchment area but also that I had the right to free NHS treatment, which involved documents that were inconveniently in boxes at the time. Bank statements, birth certificate, passport, NHS number, tenancy agreement, all sorts. Just bring everything you can think of; better to have it and not need it, and all that.
Also, big city -> small town stuff: in my small SE England town, most shops are closed on Sundays and Mondays, there's early closing one day a week, and everything but the supermarket shuts somewhere between 4 and 6 even on a normal day. Oh, and it feels much darker at night than I was used to in the city, because there's less indirect lighting (the shops are shut so their lights are off) and because the actual street lighting is so-so (it's not on all night, and it can take a while for the council to get round to fixing a broken light).
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 8:40 AM on March 7, 2024
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Good fruit and vegetables are harder to find, so make sure to check the condition of produce when you shop. Depending on where you are, be prepared for people to sneer at you about the EU if you talk about Paris.
It's harder to see a doctor now if you need one. Ask around before you choose a GP to register with; get a sense of what people's experiences have been.
The capture of urban retail by chains and franchises, already in progress when you left, has continued. If a high street isn't completely occupied by chains, it will have most shops shuttered except for a betting shop, a tattoo parlour, a nail bar and maybe a barbershop. Possibly a chicken shop. That's it.
The right/far right has succeeded more and more in capturing the media and the national discourse. Thus, Brexit really did a number on this country but no one will admit that's what happened.
Then there was COVID, from which corporations were given help to recover but people were not. There has still been no real acknowledgement of the number of deaths or the impact it had.
France has-- at least in spirit, if less so in practice-- its national doctrine of Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité. England (specifically England) sort of has the opposite of that these days. That is: we have a government actively opposed to any sense of equality or movement towards it; fraternity extends to people you personally know and approve of but no further; and liberty is for me but not for thee.
Like most travellers, you'll doubtless find some things that seem unchanged and others greatly altered. Just... the floorboards of this nation have rotted, so be careful where you tread.
posted by Pallas Athena at 8:53 AM on March 5, 2024 [20 favorites]